A big thank you and a Huge hug to all of you who helped me yesterday. You all helped me think a little differently about what has been happening.

Last night we talked. The only thing I said is that if he’s not 100% sure he wants a divorce then I hoped we could try couples counseling. I told him that we can’t continue to live this way. It’s hurting both of us way too much.

He agreed! He said that he’s not 100% sure of a divorce. He is scared to be with me. He wants to be with me but he’s just scared of what happened and maybe what could happen in the future. You guys were right. Now you can understand why I really wanted a male point of view. I don’t know how you guys think!!!

I’m not getting my hopes up or anything. I just feel like we are maybe getting out of our “stuck faze”. I have felt stuck in limbo for months now. For at least the last 7 months I have felt like I’ve been living the same week over and over.

Est—thanks for your last reply under the other thread. As far as counseling with SH. No, I’m not against that at all. Only the $$ is an issue and also I’m not sure phone counseling would work well for my H. (I can’t remember who said this yesterday but they hit the nail on the head when they said that my H is not extremely verbal with his feelings.) There is no other reason. The counselor that I have been seeing for 5 months has been really good. My H and I are going to talk next about finding someone we both would like. Hopefully we can start soon.

LWH

Congratulations...this must be a big step for you and your H.

I agree that you should not get your expectations too high, but I know it muust be exciting if you have managed to break through the "living in limbo."

Try not to put too much pressure on your H. I am sure he see this is as a big move for him so I guess I would not press him to read, or listen to tapes etc. All that will come in time I think, with a counselor included in the mix...

Patience is important.

Good luck

E

LWH,

I hope you told him you were frightened as well. I think him admitting his fears is a big step. LWH, I want you to try an experiment with your H.

Sometime ask him a difficult question, something you know he will have a hard time verbalizing. Something that in the past you would have gotten little or nothing from him on. When you ask him, sit there and listen. Listen even if he doesn't say a thing. Sit there for minutes if you need to, but sit and wait for his answer.

I can assure you a minute of silence will feel like 15, but do this.

I think you will get the answer to your question. Women often ask men questions about something the women have been thinking about for a long time, and yes discussing with their friends. They then ask their H/BF a question about this. Of course this is NOT something the H/BF thinks about ordinarily and surely doesn't discuss with the guys. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

So the words, the phrasing, the coherent thoughts are not already in place. The guy sort of looks at W/GF and since he doesn't have a preformed answer gives her the ever populare: "Duh, I don't know." The W/GF shakes her head says something like "men" and comes to the conclusion that men won't talk about their feelings or whatever.

But, the key her to understand is that men don't ordinarily talk about their feelings so the while the feelings are their, the words and phrases to express them are not, they must be created and that takes time. It is sort of like HS English when you get an in class writing assignment. If it is a topic you are familiar with great, if it is not, bummer.

So, if you want something to do with his feelings or what he thinks about something, ask the question and then let him form the answer ON HIS TIME SCALE, not the one you are used to with your friends.

Just a thought.

I think it is good that he is willing to consider MC. I do think you might want to consider SH or JH, if the money can be handled for a simple reason. From everything I hear, they don't so much counsel people as coach them. I have noticed that the men on this forum seem to respond well to the coaching.

Keep up the good work LWH. This stuff takes time and a lot of patience on everyones part.

God Bless,

JL

Just Learning,

Thanks for your words of wisdom. Understanding my H is definitely on my list of priorities. You are right. I have always just assumed that he should &#8220;think&#8221; as I think. I get mad at him when he can&#8217;t always express his feelings. I have always been able to do that easily and just assume everyone else can too.

I am kind of down a little today. I know I shouldn&#8217;t be. It&#8217;s been two days since my H told me that he really didn&#8217;t want the D and wanted to go to MC. Now of course I don&#8217;t expect him to change over night or anything. I guess I just maybe hoped I would see a subtle change but I haven&#8217;t. I know I need to be patient and I am. I thought maybe he would appear a little less stressed knowing that we were coming out of our &#8220;limbo stage&#8221;.

I know..patience&#8230; I&#8217;m learning more and more each day.

Thanks!!

LWH,

I think you have something backwards. He isn't coming out of his "limbo" stage, he is going into it. He had a course of action laid out, get a D. Now, it is not a course of action but something to be discussed with councelors and you. He will be in limbo now. He is actually going into a stage that will hurt worse, NOT KNOWING WHAT TO DO.

You must also understand that not only do men really NOT want to talk about their feelings, we are trained to hide them. If you were really honest with yourself, if your H were real "touchy/feely", burst into tears at any slight, had is "feelings" hurt at every comment that was not what he expected, etc. would you have married him? Do you think you would view him as someone to rely on?

I know you are going to say why "yes", I have girl friends like that. But you wouldn't marry them LWH. Men play a different role, and frankly as much as women gripe, we play that role because women want us to. Interestingly, as more women enter the workforce and move up into management they are finding that they have to do what men have always done: control their feelings. Be partners with people they don't care for, let people go they like, COMPETE.

I am not saying it is right or wrong, but it is necessary. So next time you feel he is doing this to you, just remember it is how he has been trained, and there it is how he is. But, more importantly it makes him the person you feel in love with.

Do you recall the old saying, "Women marry expecting to change them, and men marry women expecting to never change." There is more truth in that than you think. By the way, I will bet OM expressed his "feelings" right? Of course he did, it was part of his strategy to get you. The problem is you may not have really seen his true feelings. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

One last thought. I know it is true for me and perhaps your H. It is often harder to express deep feelings and fears to someone you love, if you are a man. Why? We don't want to frighten them with our weaknesses.

I expect you will see your H withdraw some now that counseling is on the horizon. But, just keep doing what you are doing. These things can and do turn around.

God Bless,

JL

JL - Geez, can you please come to my house and be our counselor??
You always seem to have the right words to say and they make sense. You are an extremely wise person and I appreciate you.

So you think I have it backwards? I think you are right. Why couldn't I see that? I know that I can&#8217;t expect anything from him right now. But I just thought maybe I would see a little glimpse of a happier person since he told me he wants to try. I now see that was not a correct assumption on my part.

I don&#8217;t know how much more withdrawn he can become from me but I guess it can get worse. Will things get worse before they maybe get better with counseling??

The one thing I&#8217;ve wanted for months is for him to express his feelings and talk to someone. Am I going to be creating a monster or will this be a good thing in time?

You are also right-on about OM. He did express his feelings&#8212;more than any man I&#8217;ve known. I felt that he understood me. The sad thing for me is that I didn&#8217;t see all of that before.

Thank you for helping me to understand what my H is going through. I am sure listening. Once again, you are helping me to get through another day! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

LWH,

Create a MONSTER??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Perhaps. But, give this time. Once counceling starts he may find that it isn't so bad. You must understand most of us guys don't feel it is safe to talk about how we feel, unless it is anger. That is an emotion that we are allowed to show. Kindness to small children and animals is also acceptable. Anything else, NOPE. The problem with anger is that it is a secondary emotion, and is the sign of fear, pain, angst, etc. You don't know which. He does.

So give it time. You have a bigger breakthrough than you think. He has agreed to go to counseling with you. Let that happen and don't worry so much about everything else. Things are churning within him, you can bet on that, but the more time he goes with you around showing you love him and you are sorry the better your odds are. Time is working on his wounds and if they heal sufficiently then the marriage can be rebuild.

Time and Patience LWH, the old T&P.

God Bless,

JL

JL &#8211; You are absolutely right. I have to remember that this IS a big breakthrough and I need to be understanding, patient and loving.

Thank you for helping me to understand this.
I know I need to be patient and let things happen. I guess I&#8217;m just further along than he is&#8230;maybe because I&#8217;ve been in counseling for awhile.

In a few weeks I&#8217;ll give an update. Hope you look for me!

Thanks

LWH,

You are further along than him for another reason. You know what is in your heart. You know what went on during the A. You know what you felt about OM, about your H. You know why you have decided to come back. You the WHOLE story, word for word.

Your H does NOT.

He has no idea to your level of commitment. He has no idea what your REALLY think of him. He is guessing that he is second prize in this contest. He doesn't know what you told OM about your marriage, him, yourself. He doesn't know anything really.

His problem is that although he knows virtually nothing, he is being asked to make a life altering decision. Stay with you and gamble that what you are telling is true, that you aren't settling FOR NOW. That you do love him. That you do know what commitment means. Or leave, hurt children, families and start anew with someone who hasn't demonstrated that they will betray him. Knowing that this isn't a lock either.

How would you like to be in that position?

It is scary, and I suspect that if he stays he will feel like he has knuckled under to you and you may feel you could get away with it again.

This stuff takes time to overcome. One of the things that WS's have stated that helped recovery is for them to voluntarily bring up the subject and either talk or ask if the BS has something on their mind and would like to talk about it. It seems to diffuse some of the anger and let a little steam out of the situation. As he begins to trust that you will talk about these things, he may start asking more questions and voicing his concerns.

As he opens up, you will have a chance to start to bring him up to where you are with respect to knowledge and your current feelings.

Complicated and tough stuff LWH, but it can be done.

God Bless,

JL

JL-

Yes that makes perfect sense?

You ask &#8220;How would I like to be put in that position?&#8221;

Well, I guess I should have been. I don&#8217;t know if you saw on my sig line but my H did get involved in his own EA about 9 years ago. I suspected it then but he constantly denied anything. He ended it on his own without ever telling anyone. He told me after I told him.

I have forgiven him for that, but I still wonder as is probably normal. He doesn&#8217;t tell much---says he &#8220;can&#8217;t remember&#8221; a lot. I find that hard to believe but if that is what he tells me then I will accept it.

I assume that because he understands how these things happen at work he has an even harder time with it.

I get angry sometimes because I asked him one time the following:

If I had found out the truth then (9 years ago) what would you have wanted to happen? His answer was&#8212;I would have wanted to work things out and go to counseling.

Soooo&#8212;I have been a little angry for awhile because he wouldn&#8217;t do that.

But I crossed the line and he didn&#8217;t. That makes the difference.

I understand all you explained on how he&#8217;s probably feeling. I just hope he truly gives us a chance with counseling.

I love your insight so if you have more&#8230;give it to me.
Thank you.