What should I say to my WS when he just doesn't come home for the evening? He goes to work, doesn't call all day long and just does not come home. I wake up every hour on the hour and find that he has not come home from work yet. This has been happening too frequently (at least once a week). He admits that he stays with his girlfriend. He comes home the next day and acts like he did nothing wrong. The last time he did this to his family, he said it was an accident, that he just fell asleep and did not wake up until 6am. I just don't know what to say or do to him when he comes home the next day. Two days ago, we had a wonderful day and then the next day he disappears. I have been focusing on myself and my children lately and doing everything possible to execute the best plan A but am undecided as to what to say/do about him not coming home on certain nights. Any comments would be appreciated.

If you have a couple good months in at Plan A, I think it is time for either separation (he moves out and you continue Plan A) or separation & Plan B.

If you decide to do this, do it in as non-lovebusting a manner as you can. Point out that you wanting a separation is the natural consequence of his frequent staying out all night.

Since you are virtually single-parenting now, at least you may get some more sleep if you aren't awake, expecting him.

I'm really sorry, he's put you in a very bad spot by his disrespect.

LjLIN-

I guess I'm in agreement with Lor(LOR) that it's time to PLAN-B for your own sanity and self respect.

If you had the guts, I would say change the locks and leave his bags packed on the porch with your PLAN-B letter attached! Let him know that you love him, but will NO LONGER tolerate his inconsiderate nature.

I know this is extreme, but his behavior is unacceptable and he needs to see that....Sure, he will turn to the OW, but truthfully, he will NOT like it because it is something that is being FORCED upon him. He will NOT know how to deal with a complete about face from you.

JMHO-

ditto Lor as well.

I'm also with kily regarding kicking him out - but believe it or not, you may not be able to legally do this.

I admit to not having read any background on your story. Can you point me to a post that describes your Plan A accomplishments/demonstrations in order for us to help you assess whether you're Plan B ready should the opportunity present itself?

"Forgets" to come home. That's a gem.

There has only been one month since my D-Day and I think my PLAN A has been working.

I just want to let you know that it is amazing to me how much alike these WSes are. My WS has had the same pattern of not coming home, especially on the weekend. He does not tell me that he is with her. I have the same response as you. I can't sleep when he is not there.

Yesterday I talked more firmly with him about his A than I ever have. My comments were recommended by Steve H. He told me to stress to my WS that he has to take responsibility for his actions. My WS did not like my comments at all when I told him. However, in the evening, he was better than he has been in weeks since D-Day.

Make sure that you are doing a good PLAN A. I listened carefully to my WS for hints at what his ENs are that are not being met by me.

Hang in there! You are not alone!

I have been plan A'ing since I found out in Aug. Not a perfect plan A tho, there was a lot of LB'ing. He moved back home prior to the birth of our son the beginning of November and said he wanted to work on communication with me but that never happened. He usually comes home around 12am or 2 so how can we communicate when I am sleeping.

On the weekend he does little things around the house but has been using work as an excuse to leave for the day or part of the day. He has had the same job for 6 years and never used to work on the weekends or work as late as he claims he is. He works closely with the OW on a project at work and he is the project leader so she admires his work all day. His #1 need is admiration and he said I never admired him for any of his accomplishments. He even admitted that she kisses his [censored].

Lately I have been trying to perfect my plan A. I have been cooking dinner and calling him to let him know what is for dinner and if he has to work late, that it is waiting for him in the fridge. The other day, I baked bread and made homemade soup. He actually came home for dinner that night and he has been eating out for 5 months. He refuses to come home and eat with his family. I have yet to figure that one out. I make an effort to amire even the little things that he does and show him affection. I even ironed all his work shirts the other night (which I have not done in years).

The other weekend when he did not come home, I had his suitcase waiting for him along with my Plan B letter. I told him that I would not tolerate his behavior with the OW. He read the letter and did not even comment. I asked if he would like to comment and then we talked for about an hour. There is never a resolution tho, he will not say what his plans are. He talks about divorce but romanticizes about it. He even thinks that I will be there for him to hang out with after the divorce. I told him that I met with an attorney and he was very surprised. At first he did not believe me. He did reverse look-up on all the phone numbers to find the attorney’s number to verify that I was telling the truth. He seemed to act differently after he read the letter. Sometimes he tells me where he is going but I think it is only a half truth.

He did agree to go to MC. I scheduled an appt. for this Fri and he said that was not good since that was the night that his boss takes them out drinking and for dinner. His priorities are so messed up and I told him so. He said he wants to go to counseling to see if we should get divorced or not and to get things out in the open…whatever that means.

As far as kicking him out, legally I cannot. And in NJ you are married or you are not married, there is no such thing as a legal separation. I have asked him to leave several times and he stays. I even started packing for him and as I packed he unpacked. My children are a mess emotionally and ask if Daddy came home last night or if he is out with his girlfriend. At 2, 4 and 6, they should not have to ask such questions.

WAT - You had responded to an earlier post of mine previous post

Mimi - I just want to let you know that it is amazing to me how much alike these WSes are. My WS has had the same pattern of not coming home, especially on the weekend. He does not tell me that he is with her. I have the same response as you. I can't sleep when he is not there.

What does your husband sayd when he finally comes home? And how do you respond/act? or do you say nothing?

Yesterday I talked more firmly with him about his A than I ever have. My comments were recommended by Steve H. He told me to stress to my WS that he has to take responsibility for his actions. My WS did not like my comments at all when I told him. However, in the evening, he was better than he has been in weeks since D-Day.

If you don't mind, please give me a few ideas as to what you told you H. I know I am not being firm with my H and the times that I am, he seems to be taken back but does not get angry when I "take control" of the situation.

Make sure that you are doing a good PLAN A. I listened carefully to my WS for hints at what his ENs are that are not being met by me. I believe I am meeting his EN now but he still won't give me credit. He ignores all that I do for him BUT when I LB he is quick to point it out.

Lor (Lor) - How do you non LB kicking your husband out of his own home??

kily - If you had the guts, I would say change the locks and leave his bags packed on the porch with your PLAN-B letter attached! Let him know that you love him, but will NO LONGER tolerate his inconsiderate nature.

I basically did this (except for the locks) and he ignores what I say or do. Sometimes I want him to just go away and he will not leave. I can't understand why he stays. I told him several times that if he wants a D then give me the papers. But again, no response, just a deer-in-the-headlight stare.

Would yopu have the courage to call the OW and tell HER that she can have him? Then he will have ot be accountable to her for staying with you. I suspect he might be telling her that his reasons for staying are because of the kids and such....
This way you are forcing the issue from a different position.

Now THIS is when plan A needs to be short and sweet .... in my humble opinion!

You have 4 kids .... and he "forgets" to come home????? sheeesh!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ljlingerie:
<strong>WAT - You had responded to an earlier post of mine previous post </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now I remember. What a scumbag!

OK, I suggest you up the stakes with your attorney. Did you hire him/her?

I suggest that, matter of factly, you inform your H that you're going to retain an attorney and start proceedings to protect your and your kids living conditions and financial future in light of his continuance of his affair. Do not do this behind his back and do not refer to divorce unless you want one. Just characterize it as "protecting yourself." He can read between the lines to know what this might entail. Then retain an attorney using your family funds and figure out what you can legally do. Follow through with it.

The goal here is to change the status quo and compell him to choose staying or leaving, you and your kids or OW. You're not gonna let him have it both ways any longer.

Whenever he says he doesn't want a divorce or doesn't want to leave the family, simply tell him that you agree, so "end your relationship with OW so we don't have to do any of this and we can build a new marriage instead."

This is not gonna be easy and he will not come around immediately. He may call your bluff which is why you have to be determined to follow through. No more Plan B until he's out of the house, OK?

<small>[ January 30, 2003, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Lj

Are you sure my WS is not your husband? They sound almost exactly alike.

I will be back later to answer your questions.

WAT:

Why have you not recommended that I go the same route as LJ? Is it because my D-Day was only one month ago?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>WAT:

Why have you not recommended that I go the same route as LJ? Is it because my D-Day was only one month ago?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In addition to your shorter time frame, it's because you've described positive reactions in your H from your Plan A demonstrations. You have a positive trend in progress. Also, your H sounds like he's using the young, sweet thing in a manner that suggests he's not really interested in her - she's just an appliance, so to speak. In contrast, LJ's WS seems more fogged up than yours - not to understate your H's confusion - and more likely to respond to a blunt force instrument - tough love. Also, LJ has young children - a newborn, infact - that suggests to me that her H has an attention deficit and has not realized how much he stands to lose.

I think you both have an excellent chance to enter recovery.

LJ - you only mentioned the admiration EN as one you may not have been meeting. Are you sure there are no more? There's more to Plan A than just making dinner, etc. Can you describe real improvements you've made? That said, your H sounds like one of the typical male WSs who has not been able to make the adjustment to fatherhood completely, regardless of your contributions, small or large, to the poor marital environment. He's found a drug that validates him. He does not realize what he's risking which is why I think a bucket of cold water - in the form of legal consequences - may start the fog clearing. JMHO.

WAT

<small>[ January 30, 2003, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

I agree with WAT .... a big 'ole bucket of ice water.

LJ:

Remember I am new to MB myself. I have been relying on assistance from the Sr. Members. I also am in counseling with Steve Harley. I will answer your questions just based on my experience.

I believe that my WS would spend the weekends with the OW prior to D-Day. I was not exactly sure he was having an A at that time. He would usually call me on a Saturday night but with lame excuses like " I just had to get away for awhile." He got so outlandish with this in October/November that I told him one morning that "I'm going to do something today about this". Then he tried to stop seeing her, I THINK. Well, he spent a couple of weekends at home. However, we had phone hang-ups all weekend.

Since D-Day on 12/31, he spent the first weekend after discovery away. He spent the next weekend at home. It was miserable. He was a real jerk all weekend. The last two weekends he has spent away. However, I know that he has not spent the entire weekends with her. I know where she lives and can check on her whereabouts, etc. My WS has been like the kid who got his hand caught in the cookie jar. I think I have spoiled his weekend thrills. However, as you can tell, he hates being at home on the weekends.

When my WS has come home, he is usually on the offensive. I guess he thinks the offense is the best defense. He acts like a real A-hole like he has a reason to be mad. This past weekend he came back asking for a separation. SEE THE THREAD , "THE SEPARATION THREAT". My main goal has been to not fall into his trap and NOT TO LB. I show dissatisfaction mainly on my face when I see him. However, I have not blasted him with the anger that I am feeling inside. I have vented on this BB and folks have thankfully been here for me to see me through. I think it has shocked him that I have not let him have it. It makes him more guilty. Of course, he does not actually tell me this. I've been married so long and know him well enough to still read through him.

What helped me the most from MB folk and Steve H. is to see him as being like a DRUG ADDICT. Others here refer to this as being the FOG. Steve H. really wants to stress this with me and wants me to know that as long as my WS is ADDICTED there is nothing that I can do to stop him from being in the A. The only person that I can control is myself. Therefore, my PLAN A. I would recommend that you try to figure out what your plan needs to be. I know my WS needs ADMIRATION and DOMESTIC SUPPORT. I supply the other ENs pretty well. Furthermore, his OW is really like a mood-alterer for him. I don't think he is in love as much as addicted to her as a means of treating his depression. I know when he's going to see her now just from understanding this concept. He acts giddy, like he's on a high, in a good mood all of a sudden. I fall back on knowing that he really was very much IN LOVE with me in the past and I took that for granted. He continues to find me highly physically and sexually attractive. That has been a plus for me. Have you gained weight since your pregnancy? Unfortunately, physical attraction and SF are important ENs for men.

In terms of firmness, I told him that I was taking responsibility for what I needed to do to change and I am working on that. I told him that he has to take responsibility for the A. As Steve H. says, "INFIDELITY IS ALWAYS BAD". The problem was the solution my WS chose to deal with our marital and his emotional problems at this midlife time in his life.

In terms of meeting his ENS, make sure that you have identified what his primary needs are OR how you might be UNATTRACTIVE to him or LBing him. Steve H. said that I was meeting many of the emotional needs but made myself unattractive by not demanding respect from my children and not including my H in the rearing of the children. He has felt left out. Also Steve said he might not let you know that he is noticing but he is. Just keep doing it. As WAT has told me, take a long-term view rather than a short-term view.

I hope all of this helps.

Just spoke with H at work and he said he worked late, was tired and fell asleep. I said, "How can you fall alseep at work." He just laughed about the whole thing and then said, as he always does, "I will talk about it when I get home". We never do tho since he comes home so late. He then asked about the kids and I did not answer him. If he wants to be a part of their world, then he can come home and work on the M.

I also found a Christmas list written by the OW in his car. All the items on the list, he purchased for her. The last item was "pot". Now my husband is taking drugs...what next! He did not buy his children or wife one gift for Christmas and he spent $500 on his GF. He also said that I would be responsible for the Discover bill last month which included all of the kid's Christmas gifts, household expenses and groceries. I run an online business that generates some cash (hence my user name) but cannot support 4 children and myself. I paid the bill since the cc is in my name and I do not want to tarnish my perfect credit history.

Would yopu have the courage to call the OW and tell HER that she can have him?

I have contacted the OW twice before. Once to ask her what she thought she would get out of this R since we have 4 children and a lot of debt and we have no thoughts about a D. The second time, I called her and wished her a merry Christmas and told her that it was selfish of her to keep my H away from his family and his newborn son during the holidays. She would not answer the phone but I left a message. My H says she is afaid of me.

Are you sure my WS is not your husband? They sound almost exactly alike

Mimi that is a scarey thought. How is it possible that WH's seem to do the same things and yet they feel that what they are doing is so unique?

WAT - I will have to contact my attorney. I only went for an initial consultation. I think this is what my H really wants. He likes when I take control of situations so he does not feel responsible for the outcome.

When my H told me about his unhappiness, I immediately began to better myself. I changed my attitude toward the children and became more patient. I changed my attitude toward my H and became more loving. He said that I was nasty toward him and the children. He has noticed the change but is afraid that I will change back. He said he needed more SF and wants me to initiate. I am meeting that need also. As I mentioned admiration is his #1 need and I admire every little thing he does. I lost 55 pounds since the birth of my son and have been paying more attention to my physical appearance (this is hard with 4 kids). I have tried to bring in more income with my business but again, this is hard since he is not here to share the responsibility of caring for the children. Our home is always spotless and I take care of all the daily household problems. I listen to him and validate his feelings. I do not get angry at his annoying habits that used to annoy me. I usually do not ask him where he has been or who he has been with. A lot of times, he volunteers that info anyway. I do not get angry when he comes home at 2AM and wakes the baby. I really don't know what else I can do to make him come out of the fog. He still says that I do not admire him and do not admire all the things that he has done in our house.

Mimi - At first my H was very nervous when he was home on th weekends. He would say I don't feel as tho I belong here". He would walk around the house and do absolutely nothing or sit in front of the TV. And he is not one to watch a lot of TV. Then he would just up and leave and say "I'm going out" and come home hours later. I cannot check his whereabouts since she lives an hour away. I did however call the local police and check to see if my H was at her address and they did check and let me know he was there. They actually spoke to him and then he called and asked me what I wanted.

When my WS has come home, he is usually on the offensive. My H does the same thing. He is so angry at the world and tries to test my patience and make me LB. I will say that a few times it worked and then he had a reason to leave the house. The mood swings are too much to bear at times.

I actually lost 55 pounds since the birth of my son. So, I look better now than when we got married. He has noticed this. The OW is short, fat and ugly. This has been verified by several people. He even said that she is nothing to look at but she listens to me. The major problem is that they work together. They have for 4 years but he had always said she was a B*tch. Well, she still is but he can't see it yet.

I find your comment about the child rearing aspect to be very interesting. My H has never really paid attention to the children. He just lets me take care of them and never has any input but maybe he does feel left out.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

-LJL

I've heard that Albert Einstein actually forgot where he lived at least once. But rather than sleep "at work" he called a friend, disguised his voice, and asked "Can you tell me where Dr. Einstein lives?" When the friend replied "I can't give out that kind of information" he said "It's me, you idiot! I've forgotten where I live!"

Now, that man was FOCUSED! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Somehow I don't think your H is all that similar...

-Qfwfq

Forgot to come home. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Pull this leg, it plays Jingle Bells.

I don't mean to make fun of your situation. I know that it's quite painful for you and your family. It's just that I, like many others here, have seen and heard some real doozies come from wayward partners and forgetting to come home has shot to the top with a bullet.

ljl! He spent $500 0n GF and none on you or kids? GRRRRRRRRR Let me at him with a baseball bat. Or make that a machette! Lorena Bobbit style! No way in hell should you be paying your bills while he buys for her. You have proof? use it in court!
I'd be suing her and him!
If you have a joint acct. take the money out the acct and put the bill funds into an acct in your name.
I understand keeping your CC in good shape. But the groceries,etc should not be paid with CC.
Make him responsible for supporting you and children.
If you do not have a joint acct, then it's time you started taking his pay check and handling it! giving him an allowance. If he doesn't like it, let him try explaining to a judge about child support!
Bull crap on letting this jerk get away with sticking you with buying groceries on credit cards while he lavishes gf with gifts.
By now I'd have taken $500 out of her skin or teeth!And his!
Sorry, but sometimes I see how lucky I am even with a WH jerk. My story looks like a walk in the park to some of the stories here. I actually get angry for all BS's here. Such injustice!
Gosh, I know I sound terrible, but I feel like taking all you younger ladies under my wing. LOL I'm the mothering type. And it's so hard for young mothers to deal with this and their precious children at same time. Thankfully, my children are grown.
I want to commend you mothers, and young wives who are trying so hard to make your marriages work. And taking good care of your children in the midst of so much pain. But then that is a true mother who always puts her children's interest first.
While these WH's just dump it on you and go off enjoying life like a bachelor!
All this work he does and he can't pay the bills?
I can only give you good advice from experience. Do not pay your bills on your credit card! Household expenses and groceries should be paid from your checking acct where his pay check goes!
What the heck is he paying for? House payment? car payment? Well, he has a responsibility to feed his family also before he eats out and spends on gf.
NJ won't allow you to kick him out? What if he abuses you? No restraining orders? They won't make him stay away even then?
Of course, you're not saying he's abuses you physically, but Um, I might have to pick a fight. LOL
While some are plan A'ing around here, the WS is just having a field day. Getting away with everything while BS's figure out how to kiss A-- better.
I know there are struggles in marriage and we do need to work on improvments all the time. Meeting each others EN's. But this man isn't even meeting his childrens needs. And crying that OW kisses his butt while you don't?
I'd be kicking his butt good before kissing it.
It's one thing to screw up with the spouse, but entirely different when screwing with the childrens welfare!
Nough said, Maybe I better quit reading and go chill out. LOL
God bless and praying for you, LouLou

lj - I strongly recommend you retain an attorney and seek immediate advice on how to get control of your family finances. Do not be concerned for now if this LBs your H - just minimize it by trying to stay calm throughout. The higher priority is your family's financial protection.

Do not contact OW any further. You've already cleared the air that frequently occurs when WSs lie to the OPs that the BSs want out of the marriage. No further reason to contact her.

Is there any thing else you can do to reveal the affair to the light of day? Is OW married? Do your in-laws know what's going on? I recall you mentioned that your H and OW work together - what kind of business is this? Is it possible that there are policies forbidding this type of colusion? In the US government, for example, there are clear prohibitions against supervisor/employee conflicts of interests. (When your H and OW finally end it, she could possibly have him by the testicles in a sexual harrassment suit.)

Please keep us informed.

WAT

Worthatry is right. If he works for the government, he could be in big trouble. My WH did and downloaded site to email OW. when found out,he was going to be transferred to timbucktoo!
LOL But as usual, he talked his way out of it and got transferred to cushy job station right on same area until his retirement, But that may be because he was only months away from retirement.
It is strictly a security breach to have any computer use for other than government business. And phones!
Also, An A through workplace is never secret. If they work together, you can bet most employees already know!
God bless, LouLou