How do you know if you made the right desicion (sp) in moving to Plan B. This is not feeling good and it's only day two! I had the worst time last night. I feel that if I do not keep up a dialog with my W that she will give up on me and completely move on. I jump every time the phone rings thining it might be her yet I know I shouldn't talk to her.<P>This SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Paul- its tough, i know. It just gets easier. Concentrate on Paul, what Paul wants, your boys- what ajoy kids are- and keep away!!! It is difficult. Watching our loved ones self-destruct and struggle hurts our egos and selves. It is done for YOU and YOUR BOYS' WEELBBEING!!!<P>how about focusing on your boys- have you ried reading the 10 greatest gifts i give my children?- read that if you haven't . it is on Chris' link. read, write, hunt, fish, golf, whatever. That big hole in your gut cannot be filled by her- it is up to you. Resist the temptaion. I know- everytime my emailbox has mail, I hope its her, every time the phone rings- know all those feelings. This too shall pass. If you wanna, RRINKES@YAHOO.COM is my email, love to chat.<BR>take care.

Paul,<P>You'll know that you made the right move after you get your chance (a real one) at marital restoration. <P>I hated the first week of Plan B. It was horrible. I'll give you some comfort---at least you have your kids. I left mine and lived at a friends house for the first week (they were out-of-town). Then on to a "extended stay" hotel. <P>It will get better. But I do caution you to start doing things for yourself and your kids---don't contact your wife. Any conversations that I had with my wife in the first week or so went very badly. It's natural, but if you can steer clear of this trouble, please do.<P>And yes. It does suck. You'll start to feel better in a couple weeks. Steve Harley told me that no matter how well prepared I thought I was for Plan B, it would be very, very hard. And he was right. Use your support network now.<P>

Covenant: You know I would feel better if I knew she were self-destructing. I'm worried she's doing great! I don't know, but how can you not think that they are happier without you?

If she is happier without me- than God Bless her. If you tuly love someone, thats all you want for them - is to be happier.<P>But, also, having an affair is an escape- if it works- bless her, if it dont- we'll see.<P>remove me and you from the picture, be nice, dont be a doormat, and you'll find self-respect. Otherwise she'll see a doormat who cant take care of ourselves. Try Light her Fire- that may also help.<BR>Dude, i know its tough- leave it alone, seriously.<p>[This message has been edited by covenant (edited November 11, 1999).]

Paul,<P>You are doing this for YOU and to protect the love you have for her from being totally depleted by her thoughtless actions.<P>Leave her alone - I am struggling with THAT ONE, too. It ain't easy.<P>But, truthfully, nothing you have done so far has brought her back to you or made her give up the OM or made her realoly commit to your marriage.<P>What you are doing now is giving her the chance to really see if the OM can make her happy, because he alone will have to satisfy all her needs. In a way, this might save you more pain down the road. This is what I am doing with my H. If he comes back to me, I will now that it failed with the OW, and that he will no longer be fence-sitting, wondering if she was the ONE... No more what ifs...<P>If she doesn't come home, then no more waffling - it is over.<P>This is so SCARY, paul. We don't want to risk losing the person we love the most. We don't want to risk losing our family, which includes our S. But, truthfully, you don't have her now and your family is not intact. This way, you get a chance at getting it all back once and for all. At least, that is how I see it.<P>You are such a good man and a good father. I know this is AWFUL and SCARY for you, because I feel the same way. But, nothing you are doing now is working and you are only getting hurt more and more and more.<P>Try this, Paul. You really need this for yourself.<P>I will send good thoughts and prayers your way...<P>Roll Me Away <BR>

Hi Paul,<P>I have only been in Plan B for a little longer that a week and am doing better than I though I could. I most recently found my life and self respect again.<P>W mail is piling up here so I called her parents house when I knew she [Val] would be at class and respectfully asked her mother to let Val know her stuff would be on the front porch. We have consolidated our bills and some come in her name only or I would have just forwarded everything up there. I told MIL that I do not need or want to be called back and would just like this stuff out of my sight. <P>Well, Val called the next day, I didn't bother to look at the caller ID figuring she would just come get the stuff, I was nice, well as nice as I could muster. She says she is not seeing Brian anymore....yeah...right. Sounds like things maybe going bad for the happy couple.<P>You have tried your very best with Plan A. Now it is time to go to Plan B. This is Paul and children time. Stay tough. It does get easier. I will now check the caller ID before I pick up. Let her see what life will be with out you. You will become stronger. <P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic

K: I guess I asked you specifically because I knew you had been there. And I agree with Dr. H. I was/am not prepared.<P>Roll Me Away: Scary? Try Gut-Wrenching! I don't think I initiate any contact though, I think I have that much resolve. It's the if she initiates contact thing I'm going to have a problem with. Thanks for the prayers.<P>Medic: This from a "sand pounder"! (still makes me laugh) I need to contact W's parents as well to see if they can contact her to see if she wants to see the kids. Or should I? <P>Everyone: I want everyone that says it'll get easier to give me their address so that if it doesn't I can come and kick you in the head! <P>What's the consensus on whether I should contact IL's and tell them to ask W if she wants to see kids? I don't even know if she does. Thanks Again<BR><P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

paul- i think to make a move like call them and involve them is not the way to go.<P>if she wants to see them- let her make the contact. your boys are the innocents here- look out for their well-being.

Paul,<P>I agree with covenant. Let het make the moves. Why do yu need to call and ensure a mother comes to see her own kids? She either will want to or won't and it will not matter if you call ILs or not.<P>I am glad you have such high resolve to not contact her. I am not doing 100% of this on my own PlanAPlanB. I will think of your strength here and try to get myself up to 100% resolve. I am doing better at it, though. Anyway, what I am doing (fairly successful, anyway) is being nice IF he contacts me _that's the Plan A part. Also, not contacting him unless absolutely necessary - the PlanB part.<P>I think it is OK to talk and be nice if she calls or comes by to see you. That is my opinion on it. I believe in leaving a crack in the door. You can always shut the door or reopen it - easier fromt he cracked position than the closed position. Anyway, just my opinion...<P>Roll Me Away

Paul,<P>What Roll Me Away said is absolutely true. If and when you have contact with your wife, you want it to be as pleasant and "consistant" as possible. Continue to show her that your new behaviors are lasting.<P>Just try not to fall into the trap of having lots of contact. As a extreme (but true) example, my daughter was injured while I was in Plan B. My wife called and asked if I could go to the hospital to get them from the ER. I did just that (of course), and threw in some grocery shopping for them in addition (they were shopping when my daughter was injured, and they left the cart behind). <P>Show compassion where appropriate. But don't spend time meeting her needs. Or getting into arguments. And you'll be better able to have limited contact in a few weeks, after the shock of all this has worn off.

Thanks covenant;RMA;K : I have three distinct 'let her initiate children contact' replies, ok...I can do that...I think.<P>I'm still fuzzy on what to do if she contacts me. I know I need to be kind and not love bust, but if I stay on the phone or see her for any length of time then I know all of my longing for her will come out. K...we don'y argue much any more, most of the time when we talk it is more of a 'this is so sad but what can we do' type conversation.<P>Blue days ahead I can tell

Paul - I haven't been on in a while as I've been in Plan B for about 5 months. My situation is at an extreme in that W is living with OM and there doesn't seem to be any indication that it will end. (I'm coming up on the magical six minth mark...unfortunately, I think my situation will pull up that average).<P>Anyway, my W tried twice to make contact...I refused to even answer the door and I screen all my calls. Unless the first words out of her mouth are something to the effect of "Shattered, I made a HUGE mistake...can we please try to work this out?"...I don't ever want to see her again. I know this probably runs counter to Harley's method, but I cannot and will not let her walk all over me anymore.<P>Plan B sucks, but it does get better. Trust me on that one bud. Place your trust in Jesus - He will never let you down.<P>By the way, my W filed for divorce in August and that train is still steaming ahead. I may be a bit biased, but the no contact rule is mandatory for Plan B.<P>------------------<BR>He who has a "why" to live for can bear with almost any "how".<P>-Nietzsche-

Paul,<P>Let me say I just started Plan B. I am writing the letter, and my therapist is going to go over it with me via phone tomorrow.<P>I went to see my therapist last night. Tuesday night my W was at our house. We spoke, and I asked her some questions. She said I made her feel uncomfortable and that she felt pressured by me. She did not feel pressured by the OM at all.<P>I tried to then keep it lighthearted and warm. I gave her a foot massage. She fell asleep, and I woke her up to go to bed. She said "I have to make a phone call." It was 11:15 at night. I said "Who are you calling at this time of night?" I knew the answer.<P>We had a fight about it. She threatened me with divorce, something that is beginning to happen more often. I told her "Do what you have to do" (about the divorce threat.) I ended up going to our room and crying. She was on the phone ten minutes, came up and looked at me with pity and touched my head, telling me I should "just lay down." She left, and I cried and cried and cried.<BR>I cried in the morning when I woke up. I cried on the way to a conference for work. I left the conference early and went home to bed. I wanted to die.<P>I called my therapist. He had a cancellation, and I went to see him. I have been in Plan A for about two weeks. I had said I'd do it six months. But, my therapist told me "Joe, she doesn't respect you. Without respect, there can be no love." He pusched for Plan B, and offered to help me with the letter. <P>I agreed. Enough is enough. She has been getting me and the OM, and I have been giving, giving, giving. My therapist said "Joe, you are not allowing her to experience any consequences to her actions. You are enabling her behavior. She will keep telling you she doesn't know what she wants because she can! The OM probably like it too, because you are taking the responsibilities and he gets her for all the fun!"<P>She was calling the OM in our house, in front of me. I couldn't believe it. And when I voiced my displeasure (he sees her at work all day) I get threatened with DIVORCE. After I thought about that, after my therapist pointed these things out to me numerous times, I agreed it was time for Plan B. <P>It has been so hard. I know that she will just start out feeling "This is great! I can do ANYTHING I want! I don't have to worry about how Joe feels!" But, I cannot be there now. I can't go on getting nothing at all. <P>I completely understand how you feel. I keep praying to the Lord to help guide me, provide me strength in this my greatest need and to help my family, and to let his will be done. I go through feeling completely, utterly hopeless, to having hope, back to despair, to anger, back to despair. (Despair seems to happen a lot, in my case.)<P>I am now convinced it is time for Plan B. I will pray for both of us. Hopefully it will work, and I read everyone's replies. Let's keep each other updated. My e-mail is in my profile. Don't be afraid to use it!<P>God Bless you! He loves You, as we all do!<BR>

Shattered1 and JoeJohn: I brought a post to the top earlier that I had posted in Sept. There is a reply there from TNT that she recieved from a friend. Read this story. Besides what people have told me and even the encouragement that you both have just given (by the way thanks) it has been a driving force for me. Good luck and God Bless us all.<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Paul,<P>This is about the 5th time now, that I have tried to respond to you. AOL keeps bouncing me out. ARRRRGGGH!<P>Paul,<P>Plan B is for US. Part of the reason behind Plan B is that it gives us a chance to step back and objectively evaluate the relationship. It’s tough, especially at first. <P>I bought a book called ‘After the Affair’ by Janis Abrahms Spring, and it has a very thought provoking section titled, ‘Reviewing Your Options: Should I Stay or Leave’. This section forces you to honestly examine your relationship with your spouse to see if they have ever met your most important needs. And, to also decide if you think that your spouse can make the necessary changes to meet those needs in the future.<P>This book talks about the different types of love and cautions the betrayed about unrequited love. That’s where you have an intense, but unwarranted attachment that makes you want to stay no matter how dysfunctional the relationship. <P>We are so emotionally vulnerable right now, that it’s very difficult to honestly evaluate our relationships unless we eliminate all contact with our spouses. In my case, I was so manipulated with the constant double messages that I couldn’t think straight. And, I was a nervous wreck because I never knew when H was going to just pop in. His insistence on maintaining the contact, but when he wanted to, was just another form of control. He wasn’t sure he still wanted me, but he was going to be certain that no one else did either, until he made up his mind. It wasn’t until I got out of town by myself, that I could relax enough to do some genuine soul searching.<P>Anyway, you should not worry about distancing yourself from your wife. She is going to do whatever she wants to do, regardless of what you do. Therefore, use this time constructively. Be honest. Think about your needs. What do you want in a relationship? Is there any way that you can get away, and be by yourself, for at least a few days? I’m sure there are also a zillion other, and maybe better books out there on the subject.<P>Take care, & always remember you are not alone. <BR>

Sidney: Step back and evaluate my situation? Everyone keeps saying that but I do not know what I'm looking for. I may be a victom of this "unrequited love" that you speak of. Sure feels like it. I'm glad you made it on to reply, as far as getting out of town goes or getting away by myself, it's kind of hard with my kids, I have been awat from them one night since she left two months ago, but I am thinking of taking a trip to Alabama next weekend. My uncle is the pastor of a church there and I haven't seen him in a while. May be the perfect time to pay a visit huh?<P>Everyone: I am taking to heart what you are saying, no matter how many times you have to repeat it you are not talking to a brick wall. Just a clouded mind.<P>Thanks

Go for it, Paul!! Get away, do some reading, relax, and think. It will do you a world of good. Trust me.

Paul, I guess I am in a weird plan. I'm doing A he is doing B. Actually I don't know what he is doing. But it does get a litttle easier. What good was happening when you had contact? Now be completely honest. Were you really making progress, was she giving up the OM? Where you feeling great about your life and marriage? No, none of this was happening. Now I know you are in a lot of pain from having no contact, but you were in a lot of pain by having contact. You gave the other plan a fair chance and nothing happened. You now need to give this plan a fair chance. What have you got to lose? Nothing but you have a whole lot to gain. So keep that in mind. You were going nowhere. She was not giving up OM and she was not coming home. You know that. Now She will have to see what life is realy like without you. I don't know how long it will take but it doesn't really matter. Because she has to make a decision sometime. Life will no longer be fun and games, reality will set in. The only thing that attracted her to the OM is the fact that it was fun. What will happen when the normal daily things starts to set in? I remember after we were first married, it was almost like playing house, then as the days went it got harder. I dated my H for 3 years before we were married but I still have poblems adjusting to him and he to me. They don't have that background or commitment. Something has to give, So just hang in there. I think doing it this was is a lot faster then hanging on the other way. I hope I am making sense it has been a rough day today. At least this is allthe things I tell myself to get through this. Not having cantact is actually easier after the first month, because not seeing him kept that knife from twisting every time. The knife is there the pain is there but the twisting is gone. I think I better stop for now. i had a glass of wine and Ithink it has gone to my head. But you are in my prayers.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Di,<P>AMEN!<P>Paul, listen to sidney - go to see your uncle and give yourself a mental break!<P>Roll Me Away