My husband goes out about once a week or more after work or on the weekends. He goes to bars with his friends and brothers and drinks. Lately he has been doing it more often. I don't understand why he chooses to do this instead of coming home. He says I am looking at it wrong, that he is not choosing to be with anyone else. Am I looking at it wrong? He says its an outlet that he needs? I don't understand?! I am so hurt that he chooses to go out and have fun with other people rather than coming home to me and our son.

So...hire a sitter and go out with him. Kill 2 birds with one stone. You'll be meeting a need for recreational companionship, and you'll be heading off any possible romantic entanglements.

My husband used to do this, preA. And guess how he met his A partner?

Here we are 3 years later...and while he does occaisionally go out without me - more often than not, he and I figure out how I can go with. And this works out well, we have our most pleasant experiences in each other's company <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ajs-

Make it a priority to speak with your H about your concerns and GET INVOLVED. As a BS, I can't tell you how much I regret developing (and letting my XW develop) recreational activities that didn't include each other. SH points out that it's a bad idea and a good recipe for infidelity. Good luck!

I'm curious about the amount of time he is gone. There's a big difference between an hour or 2 once a week after work, and say, not coming home until midnight.

Weekends are something else, I would really question why a married man would go out on a weekend night without his wife. Don't any of these friends or brothers have women in their lives? Not one girlfriend or wife is joining them on the weekend?

Bramble Rose is on target with her suggestion on joining him if at all possible because at this point, he is choosing to be with other people. He doesn't "need" this outlet, he is putting his wants above your comfort level--that's called selfishness. He's a married man with a child spending his time like he's single, against his wife's wishes, and that mind-set leads to marital trouble of many kinds.

<small>[ February 04, 2003, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Lor (Lor) ]</small>

IMHO...being a married guy...I'd like to say that the "space" away from the family should not be viewed as such a negative.

I think that relationships need space in order to not constrict one's indiviguality. Your husband had a life before you....you shouldn't look at it as a choice between "you and the guys". He needs the space. He probably deeply loves you however, will go batty if he feels so restricted. The fact of the matter...you should have a life outside of the marriage as well. It'll be the best thing for the two of you. JMHO.

Co-dependence can kill a relationship.

Beemer

<small>[ February 04, 2003, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: ajsmom6901 ]</small>

Beemer, I agree that spouses don't have to joined at the hip, and individual interests can enrich a marriage. However if one spouse's activities, cause concern to the other, then Policy of Joint Agreement should kick in. POJA--One spouse does not do anything that the other does not enthusiastically agree to.

Not a "restriction" but an agreement.

And, it's unlikely frequent drinking in a bar without the spouse will lead to positives in the marriage (and that's why I asked the time question).

You don't mention whether or not you're invited to these outings. My opinion is that a spouse should never be excluded unless they don't want to participate. And as a married man, I can say that not all of us agree with Beemer. You should be his number one friend and come first in all decisions, not his buddies. If his friends have a problem with you coming out with them, then he should find some new friends.

Now that being said, sure, I like to occasionally bum around with my guy friends. But I have no problems with my wife coming along, and if she has problems with the places or people I go to or see, I listen, keeping in mind that my marriage comes first. Friends are easier to replace than spouses.

Ajsmom,
I didn't intend to alarm you.

What 3xL says is good.

This is the Infidelity forum, and when either my H or I have taken to often going out without the other, it has been a troubled time in our marriage and I answered you from that perspective.

Actually, 2 1/2 years now into recovery, my H goes out after work when he wants to. He calls me, lets me know. If I'm not working, I'm welcome to join him, if he's still there when I'm done working, I can join him then. But it's our agreement that's how it works. If he wants to go out without me, a guys' night out, we talk about it before he makes the plans. I want him to enjoy life and have what he wants in terms of recreation--as long as it doesn't come between us.

The woman he had his affair with was on his pool team first, I was not ever encouraged to go to any of his pool games. So, I am very suspicious of one spouse guarding "space". In my life "space" meant time he spent with her.

Ajsmom,
This is exactly what led to my H's first A. No way!
First, if he doesn't want you to come along, at least ask him where they go. Then casually drop in!
If he wants to bum with the guys, I say come home, bring a couple of friends and have a drink in your house! You must have a den or family room where they can still be the guys and you can be casually going about fixing dinner or doing other things. But at least you know what is going on.
After what I've been through, if mine stopped after work to join the guys any night of the week, he'd find himself alone at home.
This is a really sore spot with me! Weekends? I expect him to spend with me.
Thankfully, he is now retired, but before that, he always came straight home after work.
He was with guys and gals all day long. The time off is for me! Otherwise, I could always find someone who preferred being with me to some guy.
If he needs this one or two nights a week, let it be in league or where you know where he is and are welcome to drop by.
Sorry, but when they get married, they have a responsbility to the wife over the friends.
Once they break the trust, it's never going to be the same again.
Bar maids, or some, not all, are all too willing to come on to the customers. That's who had an A with my H!
Then he continued to go there after I found out with the boys! Until I made such a scene by going there that he stopped.
He can drink a beer at home just as well as in a bar. And the friends are welcome to come over on their way home from work.
When they refuse this set up,there is more to the stop off than just guy friends. Trust me, I know!
LouLou

This was the cause of our problem, too.

I see no reason why married/attached people should be going out socially, without their partner. I agree with the others...it's a recipe for disaster. I myself have been in situations, where I was expected to show up at company parties etc (policy was "leave the spouse at the house" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ). I went to show my face and would leave in less than an hour.

Can you get a babysitter, and go along? Or can you have your child visit the grandparents or friends, and invite the guys over to your place for a gathering? He should not be partying alone. Even if his intentions are good...the danger is there.

<<<I think that relationships need space in order to not constrict one's indiviguality. Your husband had a life before you....you shouldn't look at it as a choice between "you and the guys". He needs the space. He probably deeply loves you however, will go batty if he feels so restricted.>>>

I used to think this way, too. Didn't want H to feel "restricted." Didn't want him to think I didn't trust him, so I gave him his space. He used that space to date his co-workers and have loads of great fun times with them under the guise of "Teambuilding" (spit) and "Being A Supportive Manager" (double spit.)

He was thrilled. His life was great. *I* was the one who went batty.

<<<The fact of the matter...you should have a life outside of the marriage as well. It'll be the best thing for the two of you. JMHO.>>>

Sweetie -- "a life outside marriage" is called "being single." Marriage is a partnership. If you want a separate life, don't get married. You'll only be tormenting your partner.

<<<Co-dependence can kill a relationship.>>>
Not half as fast as lying and cheating will kill it.

A very large number of affairs on this board started with socializing and alcohol without the spouse. Be careful!

A bar is a great place to meet people of the opposite sex. Most are looking for companionship and many are married. This is a recipe for disaster! I know, I have lived it... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

It IS a big deal if he is spending time with other guys at a bar without you. If he needs time with friends, there are plenty of other things they could do. Play a sport, have a cookout or watch a game at someone's home. Offer to go out with him, offer to invite his friends to your home. Include spouses.

Please read the concepts page about the Policy of joint agreement. This is critical in a marriage. You must communicate your concerns and talk about them together. YOU are a team and your feelings should be the most important to each other.

Some people will agree to going to bars as "time away" from each other. If that works for them, fine. I personally see no possible reason that a married person would have to go out drinking without their spouse. Alcohol clouds judgement, being in the environment of singles (or pretending to be) and drinking is asking for trouble.

Sweetie -- "a life outside marriage" is called "being single." Marriage is a partnership. If you want a separate life, don't get married. You'll only be tormenting your partner.
Here, Here, I totally agree with this! Thanks for saying it for us Psycho-B.
Ladysing58, Exactly what my therapist said about Alcohol clouding judgement. The bars are not just full of men and I've seen too many stop after work, meeting up with their girlfriends, flirting with the barmaid and such. A's start in bars!
Besides, how much does a man need to drink?
If mine needed that much alcohol now, he'd be gone.
It's an excuse to play. And the spouse at home winds up paying dearly.
I got married to a man who spent weekends with me, and wanted to date me everynight. So suddenly I'm supposed to be sitting home now while he goes out? NO WAY! If he needs space, he can catch the next shuttle!
LouLou

I think that relationships get into trouble when one indivigual feels (and this may very well be a projection from past feelings) that they're being controlled.

Frankly, I have different interests than my wife. I love to downhill ski...I love to golf...and I love to run. Are you telling me that doing these things apart leads to disaster? I don't beleive that. We all have indivigual needs...if both understand each other and can discuss these things in a honest open enviroment it shouldn't be a problem.

Today....we're no longer living a co-dependent life but a co-committed life.

I too am a victim of the bar and alcohol. My H is currently in an A with the bartender. I always gave him his space and let him go, it gave me time to myself too. He started going out from 1 or 2 nights a week, or if I was working, to every night. He started staying out later and later. When I questioned him, his excuse was he wasn't doing anything wrong, just drinking beer and playing pool, and of course I believed him. He had been going to this club since before we were married. After finding out about the A, I wondered how I could have been so stupid and so blind. So my advice is GO WITH HIM! Take an interest in what he likes to do. Make the effort even if you would rather be doing something else. I wish I had! Good luck!

Beemer:

You'll have to explain to me how being together in a marriage and including your spouse in your interests makes you co-dependent. I'm a doctoral level psychologist, and your use of co-dependency leaves a lot to be desired. A person who is co-dependent is one whose sense of self worth is primarily derived from fulfilling other people's needs (sort of a reverse-narcissism) and who suppresses their own emotional needs in the service of others. In Harley terms, it would be a "giver" in overdrive.

Nobody is saying that you can't have differing interests in your marriage. What people are saying is that going out to bars without your spouse is innapropriate unless your spouse doesn't want to go AND is ok with you going without him/her.

I agree -- I don't get the concept that spending all your rec time with your spouse is being "co-dependent" or "controlling".

I've been married for nearly 19 years, and we've tried this both ways...spending most of our rec time doing our own individual thing, and spending our rec time together as much as possible. Spending our time off together is MUCH more beneficial to our relationship. My H loves to golf and fish, and he does those things without me if I'm working...BUT, he practically begs me to go with him if I'm home, because he just wants to be with me. I go. Not because I love those sports (I mostly just watch and encourage), but because I want to spend time with him regardless of what we're doing. If there's somewhere we want/need to go, we usually just wait for the other to get home, and we go together! He'll even wait for me to get home so we can go to the hardware store! We're a COUPLE, not two people doing their own thing. We didn't lose our own identity by being half of a couple...ours is a partnership: 1 whole + 1 whole = 1 happy whole.

How can you maintain a close relationship if you spend most of your time apart -- working or at the bar (or golfing, fishing, etc.)?

My H is my best friend (and I'm his), and that ONLY came with effort and self-sacrifice.

Lori

<small>[ February 05, 2003, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: at peace ]</small>

I guess where I'm coming from is that for years it felt like my wife controlled every move I made. It's only after signifcant MC that I've uncovered my co-dependent past. I would withhold my own desires and needs to fulfill hers. I grew to resent this and went elswhere to fulfill my personal needs.

I've learnd that I need to be open with my needs...I just know the thought of someone saying "should married men be able to go out" throws me right back to that place that I resent. I realize I'm projecting..

I love the time that I spend with my wife, however, also enjoy the "me" time. I don't think it should either one or the other.

Beemer

Thank you everyone for your responses. Your honesty both scares me and encourages me! I don't really know where to go from here, but you have given me a lot to think about.
Thanks.