Hi! I haven't posted since the end of December in "Just found out". To be brief, I discovered my H's affair, confronted him, and he moved out all in the same day. He never gave us any kind of a chance (of course he denied the whole thing). He has been living with the OW since. After going through all of the devistation and emotions, I am trying to get a grip on things. I read "Surving an Affair" and have tried to follow some of the advice. I am putting a lot of trust in his saying "all affairs end", and I guess that is what I am counting on and waiting for. I went through the "not talking to him stage" with great difficulty for about 10 days, and it was as if I didn't exist for him, he never tried to contact me. Finally, I sat down and wrote him a letter, which he responded to with a phone call. Since then, we have talked daily when he is at work (he will not call, nor will I call him on weekends since I know he is at OW's house.) H continues to say he doesn't think we can work things out, but he won't even agree to try. For the last 4 weeks (we seperated 12/16), we have met for lunch 2-3 times a week, and he has come to our home once a week and we have talked and yes, we have sex when he is here. Then he leaves and goes home to the OW. We have become very close during this physical relationship, and it is much better than when we were together. I wanted him to realize that if this was a sex thing, he could have just as good at home since this was one of the problems he thought we had. That and not communicating as to what we wanted. When I ask him if he would come home, he says he doesn't know, or he doesn't think it will work. We never directly discussed the A or his living arrangements until today. Today, he finally admitted, a bit indirectly, that he is living with her. His reasoning is that her house is closer to the bar he drinks at every night (yes, alcohol is a problem here too). When I told him someone said they never would have believed he would have done this, he said he has a hard time believing it too. When I asked him WHY? then, he said he doesn't know. That is probably the most truthful he has been with me yet. He further went on to say that we never did anything together, which was true, and I asked what they do together, drink, smoke and play pool, and he said yes. I often told him I would go with him when he went out, but he never wanted me to. We have realized we have issues in that I was trying to be what I thought he wanted, and he thought I was something other than I really am, total lack of communication!! I believe that now that we know where each other is coming from, we can make this work. I don't know if he is still so into her or this affair that he can't think straight, or what. From Dr. Hartley's book, I think this is a "soul-mate" relationship, making it more difficult. He says he still loves me, that that was never an issue, and he doesn't want a divorce. I know it sounds like he is having his cake and eating it too, but I can't help but feel "out of sight, out of mind" and I want him to remember what he left and all we had, and all he can have again but better. That is why I continue to allow this, that and the fact that I do love him. Also, my husband turns 59 this week, and I really think this is a mid-life crisis. The OW is 35, I am 49, and have always been considered very attractive and look much younger, having always taken care of myself, and since this has happened, went from a size 8 to a size 5, and look better than ever. She on the other hand, is overweight, has chipped teeth, grey streaked hair, and is rather unkempt looking(this I say trying to be kind). She is un-educated and has a minimum wage job, while I am a professional and earn a good living. Another issue, I spent too much time at work, working shifts and overtime, trying to give us "things" that I thought were important, but now realize weren't. The only thing going for her is her age, which makes me wonder what she wants with a 59 year old man. She also has 3 children, 9, 10, and 14. When I asked my H about that, he says he doesn't pay any attention to them. I made a statement today too (I was on a roll) that my H's white shirt was grey-looking and whoever was doing the laundry doesn't do a very good job, and he told me he washes them himself at the laundramat. This from a man who never washed a sock on his own when we were together. I guess my question is what's next? Should I just cut him off as long as he is with her, should I keep trying to win him back, do I remain loyal and supportive, or do I just give up, and I don't know if I can do that. I guess what I want is someone to analize this and give me an opinion. I can't help but think if all is so wonderful in La La Land with her, then why bother at all with me? I do want him back, and that makes it harder for me. Thanks for any insight!

errn - I've re-read your post from Dec.

Do you have a legal separation?

Can you update us on what improvements you've made in your Plan A? Has he commented on any? How have you been doing avoiding LBs?

Assuming you've demonstrated some personal fixes, it could be time for Plan B. Right now he is having it too easy. Sounds like you've done a good job meeting ENs he lets you meet, but he's clearly taking advantage of the situation now and it may be time for you to pull the plug.

Read up on Plan B in SAA and tell us if you think you can do it. I'm willing to bet that this is exactly what is needed to change the status quo. Whether or not you have a legal separation may influence how you go about it, i.e., there is no way you can prevent him from coming home part time and living with her part time without a legally binding arrangement. I recommend you consult an attorney on this aspect - but this does not necessarily prevent you from going to Plan B.

WAT

<small>[ February 05, 2003, 07:49 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Hi WAT. Thank you for your continued support. No, we do not have a legal separation. Let me clarify that H only comes over when I have invited him, only when no one else is around, and only stays a few hours. He will not face my daughter (age 24) who lives here, I think out of guilt, since she has pretty much told him what she thinks of him. He has raised her since she was 11, and she is very hurt and betrayed by the whole thing. I am the one who initiates all of our contacts. He has made no attempts at reconcilliation, and does not want to leave the OW as far as I can tell. He does not want to end the affair. I don't know if I can go through with Plan B and end all contact at this point. I know it's an obscession for me, an unhealthy one, and I find myself waiting for the few hours I will see him or talk to him, and that's what has been getting me through. I have been great at meeting the EN he lets me. He has had some health issues, and it has been me taking care of all the details, in addition to being supportive in his concerns. We have been able to talk about why his EN weren't being met, and have identified problems that he or I didn't realize existed. He can see that I have made changes to improve these, and although he admits that, he feels it's too late for them to make a difference. Example: I was talking to him about the Super Bowl and he said "you never watched football before". I told him he never gave me the chance, that I used to watch football all the time. His reply was how did he not give me the chance when we had 4 TVs. I reminded him that he always went to the bar to watch football and never asked me to go along, or watch it with him. That is just a small example, but it made both of us realize how little we were communicating. As for LB, I have been almost perfect. There have been no harsh words, no arguments. When we talk, it is all about pleasant things. Friday is his birthday and I told him I had a gift for him. He said "why, we never got each other birthday gifts before" and that is true, it was always too soon after christmas and we never really wanted for anything (my birthday is next week). I told him it was another one of my new leafs I turned over. He has been teaching me to play pool, something else he is into and I never was but am now making the effort to do(we have our own pool table) and he has even bought me my own stick. So, I am trying everything I can to make a difference, but he just keeps saying why couldn't it have been this way the last 13 years and it's just too late now. It has been less than 2 months since he has moved out and has been living with the OW, although I don't know how long the A had been going on prior to that. Do you think it is still just too soon for reality to hit him yet, that he is still in his dream world, or am I fighting a loosing battle. I know you don't have answers, I just need reassurances. I know if I go to Plan B, it will be the end. And I don't know if I can face that yet. Thank you for your help!

Hello Ern,
Sounds like you are in the "COMPETITION FOR LOVE" stage. "If i have sex with him how he wants it, If I am better at it, If I initiate it then he will surely see how much I love him and come home and surely if he has sex with me he must still have feelings for me. Besides that, the OW doesn't have him as much as she may think she does"!
Been there done that! And sorry to say it only enables this back and forth scenerio for a longer period of time with you being the casualty of war so to speak. Basically this behavior only allows him to have his cake and ice cream too because YOU INITIATE IT ALL, he does nothing but show up! Everyone has their awakening when they see this pattern as doing nothing but leaving you feel even more empty when he leaves knowing that you are going to bed alone and he goes to her bed. Some people think that this is part of PLAN A because it is what the spouse is asking you for, but as you said, he doesn't make contact at all unless you initiate it. You can continue contact and make deposits into his lovebank but think again about continuing sex, especially if NO PROTECTION IS USED. He may not be using protection with the OW and that in itself is dangerous and should NEVER BE ACCEPTABLE! THIS IS YOUR LIFE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

Hi Trying!
You are right, especially the part about the empty bed. I still wake up at night in anxiety attacks over that one. You are right about the other stuff too, trying to compete. How do you get over this. In the past I have made remarks about other women I have known trying to hold on to their H, having sex with them, taking them back, and I said I would never do that. Of course I never believed it would happen to me, and now that it has, I see myself doing the same foolish things. I guess this is not such a unique experience after all. I just still want him back so much, I would try anything I guess. I am out the door in 5 minutes to meet him for lunch. I will post back after I see how that goes. Thanks again!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by errn:
<strong>Do you think it is still just too soon for reality to hit him yet, that he is still in his dream world, or am I fighting a loosing battle.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, yes, and no.

Clearly, reality hasn't hit yet and the fantasy continues - but part of the reason for this may be due to the fact that you've made it so easy for him to avoid reality (more about this below). Who knows how long this will last - my XW has been in LaLa Land so long that she may be the Queen by now.

None of us can predict whether this is a losing battle for your marriage. I can't imagine he can co-exist with her three youngish kids for very long. Is he gonna help put them through college?

What is your financial arrangement? Is he supporting you to any extent? Do you need it? Do you own your home? If so, what has he indicated about keeping/selling the house and his mortgage obligations, if any? Is he driving a car jointly owned by you? What's the status of any jointly held accounts/investments/credit cards, etc.?

I understand your reluctance to go to Plan B. But for anything to change here, I think you have to start distancing yourself some. Stop inviting him to your house and stop asking for lunch dates. Find some distractions. He may stay away OR he may wonder what you're up to. In other words, if you stop chasing him, he just might start chasing you.

Please answer the financial questions above. This will help us determine if you ought to take some protective steps which, in turn, can throw a cold bucket of reality on to him.

WAT

<small>[ February 05, 2003, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Hi WAT.
As I think I said earlier, H says he doesn't want a divorce. He is continuing to make the mortgage payment on our home and he makes my car payment. HE drives a 15 year old truck. He has also continued to pay the bills he paid during the marriage. (we each had our own share of the bills to pay and he has assured me I won't have to pay anything I wasn't paying before) So far, he has held up to this. He said he will continue to pay the mortgage until it is paid off (12 years). I am on his insurance and he said I can stay on indefinitely (I can get my own through my work if needed). I have been told that OW is looking for someone to support her and her kids, and I believe this is true. I'm sure she doesn't realize that with his paying the mortgage and other bills, this doesn't leave him as well off as she might expect. I made a comment to him about her wanting his money (I know, a LB, but I couldn't help it) and he told me she doesn't ask for a thing. I asked about grocery money and he said he doesn't give her anything. He said if he buys her a carton of cigarettes, she asks why he did that. I think she is just biding her time, but he can't see that. Also, my husband has never been what you would call generous. In fact, he was always a little tight with his money. If she does start asking for money, it will wear thin in a hurry I'm sure. I'm also sure when he is at the bar and drinking, he probably throws money around a little, like in buying drinks, but that is about it. I have always worked and made good money myself, so I never really had to ask him for any. I can't see him supporting her children either, again, even when my 3 children were growing up, it was basically my money (if you want to call it that) that supported them. He paid the bills, but I paid for their clothing, schooling, books, etc. My husband is a retired police officer and has an excellent pension, and also works full time now, along with what I make, we lived comfortably and have a beautiful home, thus many people (like OW) "think" my H has a lot of money, but our mortgage is substantial and along with other bills, doesn't leave as much as she might think. He certainly has a lot more to play with than I do since I still have 2 in college I am paying for. I don't ask him for anything extra, although he told me if I needed anything to just ask.

errn - I'm not sure what to suggest about the financial stuff. You take a risk by not getting all his current level of support into a legally binding requirement. But, on the other hand, if you force the development of a legally binding committment, he might get away with less than what he's providing now. Perhaps you should consult an attorney to explore your options.

But I am pretty confident in recommending that you stop "chasing" him. Back off. This doesn't require Plan B per se. Just stop being so available. Stop calling him. Stop inviting him for lunch, etc. See what happens. It's clear that continuing what you're doing now is simply enabling him.

WAT