My XH and the OW (who used to be my best friend) are now "out" as a couple. Some in our social group have told XH that they are still his friend but they are not willing to accept her/be friendly with her anymore. However, the majority seem to be just going along with it.

I am having a real problem with people just going along with this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Anybody have any advice/comments on how to deal with this?

Thanks!

<small>[ February 07, 2003, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: Jelly Girl ]</small>

It's nuts isn't it? My WW and OM hang around with thier enabling friends and distance themselves from true friends. True friends tell you what you don't want to hear.

I don't think there is much you can do, other that surround yourself with those who stand with you. Build a "new" circle with those who share your values is all I can say.

You're right, Luki, it is nuts! And isn't it amazing how you think you know people, you think you know their values, and then when something like this happens, you're wrong? There are two other couples in the group that I was sure would not accept this - they are staunchly Catholic - but they seem to be embracing it more than anyone else. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

JellyGirl - No great advice here, but I am experiencing some of this myself. Tight knit professional and social circle with some of these people trying to "overlook" (somebody actually used that phrase with me) WH's "despicable" behavior. Others have said they think the both WH and OW have such difficult mental issues that they feel they need to support them/feel sorry for them and I'm so strong so I should just deal with it. Needless to say the persons that said that last thing are no longer people I spend time with very much.

What did I do? I expanded my social circle. I've made new friends that don't even know WH. A dramatic change since I'd me my WH in grad school 15 years ago and our lives were so intertwined. It was hard at first, but I started having dinner parties with a few people I knew well and others that I didn't. I found new ski buddies. Fortunately, the majority of my close friends have been supportive of me and even the majority of WH's friends are supportive of me. They tried to be supportive of WH, but he keeps snubbing them and telling me he can't be with his "old" friends because of the shame he feels.

Sorry to ramble on about me -- I just wanted you to know that I think this is common (unfortunately), but it is also an opportunity (or in my case a big kick in the pants) to go out and make some new friends. You can't change how people behave, but you can tell them how it makes you feel when they behave insensitively.

Generally though, I do think that society is repulsed by affairs but also people "don't want to get involved" and "think it's a personal situation" and that ignoring the behavior or telling the WS to "move on" is common. I don't think people see how much it hurts the WS. I still have a hard time with the two friends WH told about the A early on that said nothing to me - both married men who tacitly approved of this thing by their silence. Interestingly, neither is still friendly with WH/at least not on the level they used to be and I am cordial toward them, but will not talk to them about the situation.

You know, people really are just too accepting. Soon after I found out about H's first affair, we went out of town for a softball tournament with his military (ANG) softball team. Most brought their spouses, but one Capt. brought his girlfriend and left his wife/kids at home. Not one person acted like this was in any way inappropriate! Of course, many of these same people knew about H's year-long affair with a military co-worker and no one told me either. I didn't know anyone at the tournament very well, and was still shell-shocked from my own painful experience, so I didn't say anything either. But, to this day I wish I'd had the guts to call him out about it. It's NOT o.k. to flaunt your girlfriend.

Adultery is a crime in the military, but ONLY if someone threatens to pursue legal action.

Sorry, Jellygirl...I got into some projecting on your thread. I just feel bad for you and all the other BS's who've had to feel that stab in the back.

Lori

Jelly Girl - I'm not where you're at yet, WH and OW are not going out with other people unless perhaps with her friends, but I have wondered about this a lot. I have asked many people's opinions about it (not necessarily people in my friend circle, more like co-workers), and the answers I get are varied. Most often, people are not willing to judge, they say it takes 2 to tango, or no one knows what really goes on btwn 2 people, so they don't take sides. I think it's easier for them that way. The funny thing is, though, that if you ask those same people if they think having an affair is OK, they all say NO absolutely not. I don't know how they justify their seemingly faulty logic, but that's what I've seen. Where are the consequences that WS should suffer if no one gives them a cold shoulder? One co-worker has recently seen 2 very close friends get a Dv, H was having an A. This co-worker spent much time with the wife, whom she saw as the abused party, but now that the Dv is final, the WH has been visiting the co-worker's home and she and her husband said they're seeing some things from his point of view, and now have some sympathy for him. She hates what he did, but not him. I think it's a tough line to walk.
My own sitch involves the opinion/actions of my grown children, an even more volatile and difficult line to walk. I get so angry sometimes when my daughter 22, says she wants to keep the communication open with her father. He has hurt her, too, and made her deal with thoughts she never should have to think about her father, like abandonment, what to do with the embarrassment she feels when a friend asks about him, the thoughts that he is a "low life", where does she fit that into her picture of him? She'd prefer to not deal with it, but sometimes she can't ignore it, and yet she will still talk to him. Our son 24, will not speak to his father, but I know that it will not be forever. And when I'm thinking rationally, I know that it is best that they both keep him in their lives. So far neither one has met OW, but when that day comes I will be posting a huge vent here on MB.
I think you asked a good question, we want justice and no one's helping us get it. Maybe they get justice done to them in the afterlife?
Good luck to you, make some new friends, and hopefully you still have family to help you.
LabLady

unsureheart - That's a good point about expanding your social circle (and you weren't rambling, this was the kind of thing I was looking for!) I wondered how common it was to get this kind of reaction, and it's looking like it happens far too often.

atpeace - Wow, taking your girlfriend on that kind of a trip while you're still married, and nobody says anything. Nice. And those guys actually have the threat of prosecution under the UCMJ (my XH was in the Army). Do you think you'd say something if the same situation occurred today?

lablady - I think you're right, it's just easier. I agree that it must be a tough line to walk, but still... sounds like subjective morality. I can see how it's got to be so much harder with your own adult children - but sounds like you are handling it well. Thankfully I do have family to help me... and with them there's no question about anyone who does this sort of thing. My brother works with a woman who left her H and kids for a man who left his W and kids to be together... and he and my sister-in-law refuse to socialize with them any more than is necessary due to the work relationship.

It says something really sad about our society as a whole that the majority of people will just look aside. I bet they'd feel differently if it happened to them... and given the statistics on affairs, there's a good chance they will find out first hand.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jelly Girl:
<strong> Do you think you'd say something if the same situation occurred today? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep. Definitely. I was a very naive and timid 24 year old at that time, but now....let's just say I'm older and MUCH more outspoken. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Going thru the "junk" I've been thru has made me more assertive. To me, not saying anything would be like silently agreeing with it. I can't do that.

Lori

I was TOW in a 10 year A. MM and I used to go out with friends, family, etc.

My experience was this: most of my friends said things to me privately, but no one turned us away.

That A is long dead and i'm in a different relationship. Looking back it's kind of an interesting thing. Overwhelmingly I think that most people would prefer to just not be involved.

It's like when a couple has a fight the friends don't want to take sides. A lot of people said later that they didn't agree with what we were doing, but didn't want to "judge".

My family always knew and came to accept it. His men friends knew but not very many of his women friends/family. It was commonly accepted that other men would not mention this bad behavior.

Jelly, you said one couuple staunchly catholic. Now you see the hypocrites!
Of course, they figure you just run to confession on Friday and it's ok to start over on Sat.!
Those who would accept an adulterous relationship among friends are just as bad. it's not even an excuse they don't know what to say or do. True Christian would speak up and take your H aside and point out his sin. Actually try to get him to do a 180. That is a true christian brother or sister.
Supposedly my H's best friend was real Christian born again. I once ask him why he didn't say anything to my H when he starte A with the bar maid. He simply said God never laid it on his heart. But the truth is he was an adulterer too!
So it would have been the pot calling the kettle black. He even had the never to say he had dated H's girlfriend, but at time didnt' know it was his GF or he wouldn't have done that.
Nice of him to honor his friend territory, wasn't it?
Fact is this man is no more Christian than satan!
Too many put on the front for social status and business purposes. But believe me, God knows their hearts and they'll hear the words, "Depart from me, I never knew you".
Now you see society as it is!Very few trustworthy and very few truly who they seem to be.
Any true Christian would do the right thing and talk to him. Then if he continued they'd dust their feet and not be his friend. Once he had the truth, it would be up to your H.
But I wouldn't socialize with anyone who I knew was doing as your H is. And the woman? She would be cut completely with a cold shoulder. After I'd preached her a good sermon. She'd not be back I would assume. Or she'd get saved and break this herself.
Try the spirits. So true and worthy advice from Christ. We are, unfortunately, surrounded by a viperous world.
With friends like these, you dont' need enemies. God bless, LouLou

My W has completely compartmentalized her life. She spends all her time with friends she's met during her A and very little with the ones we've known as a couple. Whenever I tell someone in our circle that we are separated (and that's ALL I say)she gets mad about it. The few people that we know who would actually tell her that what she's doing is wrong she's totally shut out of her life.
I never thought about our old friends being accepting of what she's doing but I know that many of them would be friendly to her and not want to get involved. The ones who have been through this sort of thing themselves don't accept it at all of course. My W right now feels to guilty to want anyone to know because she would have to face our kids and people who knew her as a good Mom and W.

Hi Jellygirl,
My heart goes out to you...I am in the same place that you are. My H and OW (who also used to be my best friend and next door neighbor) are now attending family parties together! It is so hard to see them together! Your true friends will shine through for you and you may be surprised to find out who they are. I know I was! OW's sister actually turned out to be one of my strongest supporters in our circle of friends! The friend that I thought would support me, ditched me (as the kids would say!) You never know.

For me, the best thing I could do was to remove myself from the situation. So, I am not attending anymore parties if they are going to be there. I don't know if that will work for you or not since my situation pertains to in-laws and not friends. Someone told me that the more you are put in the situation of seeing them together the easier it gets to handle (easy to say when they have never been through it themselves!). Who knows, maybe that it is true.
I think it would be a heck of a lot easier if the OW weren't ex-best friends! You are in my thoughts and prayers and hope that you can find a solution that will work for you.
BH

Thanks for everyone's thoughts on this.

Katie Scarlett - thank you for giving me perspective from another angle. I do know a few have privately voiced their opinions to XH and OW, but in public they act like nothing's happened.

ladyLou - you are so correct - with friends like these, who needs enemies?

starman - my XH also compartmentalized his life. He actually said that he was separating his feelings for her from our situation. I think he truly believed that he could do so... but obviously not. In my situation it's him that is spending the time with friends we had as a couple... it's been too painful for me to do that.

brokenhearted - doesn't this stink? I am sorry you are in this situation too. So far I am removing myself from it, as you are... but I don't want to do that forever. I'm not ready for it yet, though.