I don't get why my wife thinks a divorce will make all the problems go away. Especially if she still wants to be with me and feels that with the right changes the marriage could work. I have not half the things that I have read that other people have done. For one I choose her over the OW, when the decision needed to be made. I don't want to loose my wife forever. I love her too much and feel bad for the pain I have caused her. I will not fight it if she really wants the divorce, but I'm sorry and don't plan on causing her any pain again.

She is trying to "divorce" the pain. There is too much pain for her to deal with. She can't imagine making love to you ever again without experiencing this dreadful pain.

It's all about pain. It's not about rational thinking. We are neurologically wired for "fight or flight" when we sense danger. Your W is in the flight mode. Her pain sensors are screaming at her, and telling her to run away from danger.

Does that make it any easier for you to understand?

Let me get this straight...

You had an A.
Your W found out about it.
She files for D, but doesn't act.
You & W agree to "work on M" for a year.
She catches you with OW AGAIN...

Please excuse me for being so harsh, but it sounds like you've done absolutely NOTHING to work on your M over the last year except run back to the OW and now you are paying the price.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have not half the things that I have read that other people have done. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know what?... Your W doesn't care how much other WS have hurt their BS... she only cares how much YOU have hurt her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> For one I choose her over the OW, when the decision needed to be made. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow! What an ego boost for your W!... I'm assuming that the decision "needed to be made" when your W gave you an ultimatum... the OW or me...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I love her too much and feel bad for the pain I have caused her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You've got to be kidding us!!! Part of recovering from the A is for you, the WS, to FEEL the pain that you've caused your W.

Merenth gave you some advice from your previous post... I'm going to tell you the same thing... You need to Plan A your W till the day you die if you want any chance at all to rebuild your M. You can continue to make light of all of your W's pain, and you will eventually get a D... OR you can start acting like a man and learn the things that you need to do to rebuild your M.

Semper Fi,
RIF90

I will deal with the Pepperband first.

Will she change from flight to fight? Or is this a one way street? I know that she thinks by divorcing she will get rid of me and the pain.

Now Faith 90

Yes I did lie about trying to make it work. But I was not told it is her or the OW, I had told my W that I was talking to the OW and needed her to help me get over this by meeting some of my EN, I reached out for help. But by this time the damage was far to great and she dicided that divorce was her better option. You must understand, my wife had an A 8 years ago, which was not easy for me, but I never filed for divorce and I even moved out so she could have some time to think about it. Yes I'm not perfect, but I have started to be a better man and I only hope she takes the time to see it.

Well, ever heard that old joke where the guy goes to the doctor and says: "Doc, it really hurts when I do ~>>this<<~ (smacks self).... What can you do to make the pain go away?" .... and the doc says: "Stop hitting yourself."

If your wife sees YOU as a mountain of pain, .... she needs to distance herself from the source of that pain.

How are you showing her you care that she's hurting? Does her pain mean more to you than your fear of divorce? YOUR fear of divorce is all about your pain ... and, quite frankly, why should she care about your pain at this time??

You are in a panic, and I understand that .... but, you are pretty self-focused right now. Do you realize that?

<small>[ February 07, 2003, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Well Pepperband,

I do realize her pain, I have not seen her (my W) since the 12th of Jan. I do not call her unless she calls me. I let her ask all the questions she wants and answer them honestly. I am not attempting to stop the divorce, I'm just rying to understand why she feels this way, so I can help her through it and not do it ever again. All I prefer is to spend the rest of my life with my wife and if she needs a divorce to figure out I'm the one she wants then a divorce is what she will get. I'm in no position to tell her what to do, I just can't figure out wy she is so sad about it at times.

"I just can't figure out why she is so sad about it at times."

?????? You're kidding, right? Have you read any books about infidelity? Have you read all of the infidelity articles here on this site?

You can't figure out why she is sad???

I may be misunderstanding you, forgive me if I am. It seems painfully obvious to me why she is sad.

Tell me why she is sad .... your best guess.

If your W had an affair eight years ago, how can you not know what she's feeling? If her doing that wasn't as bad a thing that has ever happened to you in your life are you sure you really love her like you say? The others are right, you need to be all about her for as long as it takes if you want a chance at getting her back. You sound like you think she's just overreacting to what you did.

My best guess is that she is sad because her marriage and the one person she believed in has decived her and lied to her. But once a decision is made, shouldn't she be happy since she has made a decision? Believe me I feel very bad about this.

No I wouldn't expect any happiness from this. Getting a D would be a very sad thing even if you were completely sure that that's what you needed. It may very well be that even though she's telling you she needs this she doesn't really know herself. So keep being loving and compassionate!

Oh, I see .... you are asking ....if once she makes a decision to have a divorce, shouldn't she feel happy about that decision???

Brother, you don't know much about women.

Pepperman,
That is one reason why I'm getting a divorce and that is why I'm asking the questions, so I can learn more and make it work.

Ig:

Cripes, man! Look, I'm a man, too (I think), and though I'm not the WS in my sitch, I can see what Pepper's driving at here. It's simple, but it won't be easy:

Tell your W you don't want a DV, if you don't want a DV. Don't just assume that she wants one because she's asking for one. And think about this: If you tell her you will do whatever it takes, whatever she ASKS OF YOU to prevent her filing for a DV, how do you think that will impact her thinking?? Don't just "let a DV happen" because you feel bad about what you did. You can't change your past behavior, but you can CORRECT the mistakes you're making now. And not fighting for your M is a pretty big one.

Don't make me get that 2x4 out!
-Qfwfq

Qfwfq,
She knows I don't want one and she has stated there is nothing I can do to change her mind, I have asked, more then once. Thanks for the input, but if I ask and she says nothing then all I can do is state it is not what I want, but if it is what she wants let her go.

Divorced is not how she wanted this to turn out ....

it's called grieving!!!

It is a loss. She is suffering a loss.

I still don't understand how she can see us dating again someday if she is griving a loss now, doesn't that mean a death.... no coming back...

ig:

"there's nothing I can do to change her mind"...

I wonder how many times people on this forum have heard this statement? Probably a lot. I know I've seen it many times.

You now have a lot of work to do. You may not be able to change her mind, but you can certainly change your behavior and your outlook. Are you in counseling? You probably should be. Are you reading any survival books (of affairs, that is)? You should be.

Who knows. If you work on understanding why you had an A, and take steps WITHIN YOURSELF to prevent that kind of thinking from taking control of you again, your W may find herself attracted to you again.

Even if that doesn't happen, it behooves you to do the self-improvement anyway, because you may want to have a fulfilling relationship in the future, with her or someone else, right?

-Qfwfq

ig:

"I still don't understand how she can see us dating again someday if she is griving a loss now, doesn't that mean a death.... no coming back..."

NO. Well, in a sense it does. By that I mean that your previous M is dead, even if you don't DV. You can certainly create a new one from the ashes.

We make choices that require grieving the loss of the alternatives all the time. Jobs, places to live, people to marry...

-Qfwfq

yes I'm seeing a counselor and I have started to go to church. I also have read everything here and many other books. She sees the changes, she just doen't believe they will last. Lack of trust, so you are right it will just take time, which I have alot of now. Thanks for all the help.

lghoping, the trust issue is the biggest factor. It's so hard to believe again once we've been hurt. I can't say I will ever really trust again fully. And I don't think I should because this way I'm on watch always. Not to be caught off guard again.
You see, when you love someone with all your heart and you think they love you, it's like a death when you find out they've cheated.
To me, it says "I don't love you and this OW is better than you"!
It tears down every reality you've held in your mind. When you've thought your marriage was a happy one, that your S adores you and loves only you. That you are the special person to them.
Then the A! It takes away all this from you. And honestly? there is no way I'll ever feel special as I once did. Not ever. No matter what MY FWH does, he can't erase that he did think I wasn't good enough in comparison to other woman. He can tell me not so forever. Won't change things for me.
So you're dealing with a wife who has been stripped of all her hopes and dreams.
Every shredd of self esteem, dignity, happiness went right down the drain for her.
My H and I are working it out and doing well. But he'll never understand that something was lost. He even says nothing was lost. He can't know or validate even my feelings on that one. It was lost and it's not coming back ever.
Sadly, we can't turn back the clock, we can only grow a new branch.
I'll telling you all this as a BS and one who thought her life was over when my H cheated. I wanted to die in fact!
The pain is something only a BS will understand. NO WS is ever going to know the pain and suffering they caused. You think you can, you say you see it, but you'll never know the actual physical pain brought on by mental and emotional hurts.
If I had to guess at how your wife feels, I'd say she is suffering this way and is afraid to ever face it again. No matter how many times you tell her it won't happen again, just read a few post here and see how many times that promise was broken.
She may also see you as getting even with her for the A she had! And feel like it's better to start over anew with someone where there is no history.
I hope the counselor can shed some light on it for you both. And that she will give it another chance. But from one who has been there twice on the BS side, if I'd known 24 yrs ago what I know today, I'd have left then for good. Only God has kept this marriage going and finally, its' healing today.
God bless and keep working on it. She will need time to ever believe in anything again.
LouLou