I am going to be posting a longer story that will require serious input from all, but I do have a shorter question right now. Why does a Plan B "letter" have to be written vs. a Plan B "statement"? Is it because you may not be able to say what you want to say due to emotion or interruption so it's better to write it out?

Also, I have read many posts on Plan B on the board and it seems that most people DO NOT mail their Plan B letter to the OP as SAA recommends. Why is that? Is it not recommended in most situations?

As you can guess, I am getting ready to go to Plan B in about 2 weeks with my WW. Nothing seems to work to get her off the fence and I am only waiting the 2 weeks because I want to get through V-Day and our scheduled date for March 1 to get a little more quality Plan A in before going to B and no contact.

My thought was to deliver my Plan B letter verbally as a statement at the end of my date with her on March 1, but there must be a reason that isn't recommended.

Yes, it is time to go to B if that is going to be one of the questions. She would continue to see me once a month or even bi-weekly forever without making a decision. I know my WW, this is what I need to do for her to come off the fence. It will be up to her to decide which way she chooses to fall, I am emotionally prepared for either result.

Help if you will......

Sadinaz,

You are right the Plan B letter really needs to be written. If you give it to her in a sealed envelope then she is going to wonder what could this possibly be. I think that since you have a planned Plan B date stick with that date and give her the letter at that time. Let her come to you with any questions.

Indy

Of course it can be verbal. It can be anything you want it to be. But I believe a written version has advantages.

For starters, like you implied, a written version gives you a chance to be more in control of what you're saying. I found that the act of writing it was clensing, in a way. Maybe even empowering or strengthening. I felt in control. Others have related similar feelings.

Secondly, it can be something the WS re-reads later. I'm sure there are WSs who immediately throw it away - but there's a possibility they won't and it'll be something they can refer back to later. Definitely not available if it's verbal.

Also, it's easy to send a copy to the OP - which SAA recommends, as you note. You obviously can't send a copy of a verbal version. I believe the reason for doing this is to make sure the OP knows that the BS wants to try to save the marriage - who knows what lies the WS has been telling the OP? If prior interchanges have already occured such that OP is well aware of the BS's desires, this step is not so important, I guess.

Of course, if you feel that you can do a good job verbalizing the points in person, perhaps the best delivery is doing both - verbal with a paper copy handed simultaneously, also sending a copy to OP.

Good luck,

Please look at my story at the bottom before answering, WW and I have no kids and OM is single with no kids as well.......

I would love to send a copy of my Plan B letter to the OP, but I do not understand what this accomplishes. If it is intended to create guilt, OP really doesn't care I would imagine after 8 months. If it is intended to let OP know that I am still interested in a relationship with WW, again- I don't understand why they would care when they have been with WW for so long. Again, why would they care when WW chooses to be with them, regardless of whether or not I have been painted as a monster when I am the exact opposite.

I guess I would like to know what truly is the argument of sending to the OM a copy of the Plan B letter. Don't get me wrong, I am all for anything that would help the situation. But in my opinion the downside risk (WW gets EXTREMELY PO'd) is much more likely than the upside gain (OM comes to senses or realizes WW hasn't been telling the truth). Do most OP's really care whether or not WS has been telling the truth? Do they really think, especially in the case of the WS being a woman, that the relationship is going to go somewhere? I don't know, I would do anything at this point that would knock my WW off the fence and have her fall in my direction- but it just seems as though the negatives outweigh the positives when you evaluate what could happen by sending OP a copy of the Plan B letter.

I would love someone to give me some solid logic behind this strategy, or better yet a true life story where it actually had an effect.

To this point, I have stuck by two things I promised myself at the outset many months ago:

1. I will not hurt myself regardless of the pain and suffering that I feel.

2. I will not hurt OM regardless of the pain and suffering that I feel.

I'm not going to kill myself over this, and I am certainly not going to jail either.

If a plan B letter to OP could possibly help, let me know and I'll take it into serious consideration. Also, why doesn't anyone ever recommend a timeline in their Plan B letter? It seems if you leave it open-ended it's the same as continuing to feed the junkie some crack. Why not set a deadline to force them to deal with the addiction? If they don't make a move by the deadline then you have the opportunity to move on and WS will have to deal with the choice of having to end the marriage as they didn't "comply" by your date.......

Please give me your thoughts, Plan B is a big step and I want to be sure I completely understand all of the intellect behind the decision- I am acutely aware of the potential consequences.

My understanding of Plan B is to preserve one's love in an attempt to outlast the A. A timeline/deadline would potentially come off like an ultimatum or an attempt to control. The difference can be subtle enough that a WS wouldn't notice (they'll probably just lump it all as you messing things up), but I think it's an important one especially for how you think of Plan B.

The addition or lack of a timeline probably could go either way. Too short a deadline, and the A will just blow right by it. Too long a deadline and the A could get dragged out until the deadline. Leaving them wondering about certain things can be helpful.

WS's do tend to get POed by Plan B letters. I think the marginal increase in PO of sending the leter to OM is not that big as long as the actions are consistent (i.e. it's the same letter, just with a comment).

That all said, you know your W better than anyone. Perhaps you should consider an alternative to a Harley Plan B letter. There are certainly similar options with the variants you are wondering about that can probably make a case for themselves.

Good luck. I hope the timing of the letter isn't too late.

My fault, again I should clarify.....

My WW began IC back at the end of October. She refuses and still does to go to MC. At her first session, her IC (her dealer as I like to call her) told my WW (the junkie) that it could take up to 6 months for her to decide whether or not to go to MC.

In January, my WW told her IC (enabler) that she wanted to make a decision. IC told my WW (addict) that she had already made a decision, not to reconcile, but also not to divorce- that was a decision unto itself. What? You have got to be kidding me..... thanks IC, pass my wife the pipe.

Understand that throughout this process, WW refuses to discuss Divorce. She will make occasional comments about potential reconciliation as though she is leaning in that direction, all the while acknowleging that her words do not meet her actions. She is "confused", or as we all like to say "deep in the fog". She used the phrase the other day that her relationship with OM is "at a standstill and has been for a long time", and that she isn't "moving farther away from our M". O.k. honey, whatever.

Anyway, my idea for Plan B was primarily to make her stick to the 6 month deadline that her dealer (IC) has planted in her head- the end of April. WW made a comment the other day that she couldn't "guarantee" that date due to how confused she was today. Not gonna cut it for me, I have been working off of that date since November and I don't want it moving back further. I love my wife with all of my heart, but my life has been on hold in many respects for many months while she makes her decision. I respect those of you that can wait many months or even years, but I just feel she needs to come off of the fence. I am emotionally prepared for either direction at this point that she falls. I want the M, completely. But I cannot and will not wait forever and for me 6+ months from D-Day is enough time for her to make a decision.

Anyway, back to the Plan B question. I want her to adhere to the end of April deadline which is why I want to place that in the Plan B letter. She knows this, we have discussed it together and she says she will "try". In my mind, after Plan A'ing for V-day (although OM will be with her that night) and Plan A'ing for our March 1 agreed upon date with just the two of us, I will have placed enough good memories in WW's head/heart. I will be able to deliver the Plan B with the April 30 deadline that she previously gave me and be able to hold my head high and know that I have given everything to making the M survive.

Under those circumstances, considering there are no "skeletons" in our M that I haven't disclosed, is it really a bad idea to hold WW to the deadline that she herself gave me back in November? Do I need to deliver the same message to OM as well- minus the deadlind of course?

I believe not on both accounts, but I would be more than happy to read dissenting views. I want this M to work more than anything, I don't want to feel that I left anything on the table so to speak and Plan B is a HUGE step......

OK, I offered you some solid logic that you have discounted. But after reading your subsequent posts, I can discern your real motivation regarding Plan B: you want to use it to manipulate her.

Forget it. You want to knock her off the fence. You want to coerce her into making a decision. You want her to meet your deadline. I don't think you get it yet.

What have YOU accomplished in your Plan A? What changes have YOU made to YOU??

WAT

WAT-

You and I are going to have to agree to disagree. I "get it" entirely. I am not using Plan B as a form of manipulation whatsoever, I am using it as a form of closure- for me. As I said previously, I have all the respect in the world for those who post to this board and have been waiting many months, if not years for their WS to return. Frequently, those spouses share children with their WS- I do not. Please do not try and argue with me that children do not factor into how long someone may choose to wait. I fully understand the importance of both parents in a child's life, if at all possible. I admire those BS that will do anything and wait however long it takes to protect their families. Although I am not a parent, it saddens me to read some of the stories on MB that do not end happily. Life isn't fair, I realize. But the efforts that some make on this board deserve to be rewarded.

In my situation, she has given me a deadline. That was her choice not mine and not something that I ever asked her to do. She has chosen to waffle as of late, I have been very patient throughout this process and have been very successful with my Plan A and the changes that I have made for ME. NEVER have I confronted the OM, NEVER have I done or said anything to my wife that would be considered confrontational. I haven't gone to her place, I haven't called her, I haven't forced my way into seeing her. Understand that she immediately moved out after D-Day into her own place, I didn't have the opportunity to Plan A with her in our home together. Honestly, I'm a freak in the way I have tried to handle everything as opposed to the majority of BH- I've given my wife all the space in the world that she needs. Am I perfect, No. But my WW would be the first to tell you that I have gone out of my way to be as caring and supportive as possible for her during this time. I know, she has told me more than once by e-mail- our main form of communication.

I'm not going to go into the changes that I have made with myself, frankly that's not the point of my post or my question. My question is at what point do we stop acting in the role of enabler to the addict, at what point do we start taking care of ourselves? I believe that is at the point of Plan B. We are putting our respective feet down, protecting the feelings that we have remaining, and telling our spouses that we cannot take what they are doing anymore- trying to eliminate the cake and eating it too that they have grown accustomed to having (again, the feeding of the drug). In my case, my wife offered me a deadline as well- I am asking her to honor that commitment to me. Why would that possibly be manipulative? Asking her to honor one promise or commitment that she offered without my asking is manipulative? If so, then I guess in your words I "don't get it". I love my wife deeply and always will regardless of the outcome, but I am only 35 and have a long life to live. If she doesn't want to be with me, I can accept that. I want her happiness, that's all that I have ever wanted for her. If I am not the person she chooses to be with, if she is in the middle of a MLC, if she just chooses to be single and no longer married, I will have to deal with her choice. But I also feel that I deserve the same happiness, that is why at some point she needs to decide what she wants. I'm allowing HER to make that decision, on the terms she offered 4 months ago. She offered the deadline, her IC told her to give me a deadline, if that date passes without a decision then I need to make a choice. My choice will be to move on as that is what will be best for ME. I will be able to do so solely because I will feel that I have given everything I have to this marriage and have exhausted all of my options- other than continuing to wait for a day that may never come.

Again, we can agree to disagree, maybe my verbiage in a previous post was a little strong for your taste and I apologize- after re-reading it I can understand how you may have gotten that impression. But I suspect that a great many on this board would tend to understand what I am saying and agree with what I am proposing "in my situation" if they were completely honest with themselves.

<small>[ February 13, 2003, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: sadinaz ]</small>

Here's some potentially dubious advice....

She's walking all over you and seems to be enjoying it a bit more than a typical WS. That's probably going to bite you in the [censored] in recovery to the point where you're wondering what you were thinking. It's one thing to live day-by-day or think it will last forever, but say "I'll do this for 6 months and then maybe I'll decide" is so disrespectful for reasons I am sure you can gather.

That said, April sounds like as good a date as any. Personally, I would have lost hope sooner, but you sort of locked into April - and for whatever reason, dates tend to give hope. Given that you're ready for moving on or recovery, it's a bit surprising you're willing to wait that long to stay in this limbo.

Then again, you're separated already, so maybe not seeing her that often is helpful.

Jumped in late.

I would love to send a copy of my Plan B letter to the OP, but I do not understand what this accomplishes.
lets the op know you are serious about wanting the marriage.

If it is intended to create guilt, OP really doesn't care I would imagine after 8 months.
Many ws tell the op lots of stuff, including they are not even married!

bs does If it is intended to let OP know that I am still interested in a relationship with WW, again- I don't understand why they would care when they have been with WW for so long.
Again, the ws usually lies to the op about some (many?) things, such as saying the bs wants a divorce and has since before they started the affair.

Also, why doesn't anyone ever recommend a timeline in their Plan B letter?
A VERY good reason. If you say, "I will continue Plan B until July 1st, then I will file for divorce" you are telling her it is okay to screw around until 30 June. Also, by NOT giving a timeline, you can change it if you feel you want to hold on longer (or less.) Using Plan A, you show your spouse positive changes, including being true to your word. By giving her a date and changing it, you are demonstrating that you have NOT really changed and are doing it simply to get her back.

By not giving a date, you will divorce when you are ready without wondering what you will do if she changes her mind because you no longer want to be married to her.

Understand that throughout this process, WW refuses to discuss Divorce.
That is good. As long as there is no discussion about it, she (probably) will not do it. You should not be bringing it up unless you ARE going to do it.

6+ months from D-Day is enough time for her to make a decision.
As Harley writes, "most affairs end within 6 months of d-day." Most, but not all. If you aren't willing to wait, it is absolutely your decision.

Harley says Plan A for 6 months and an additional 2 years for Plan B. These aren't just arbitrary times.

Most betrayed can only give a good 6 months of Plan A before they start to lose it.
2 years for Plan B because this long and you can process it all, then divorce with far, far much less trauma and stress.

I love my wife deeply and always will regardless of the outcome
I think this phrase (always will) is used far too much.
I want her happiness, that's all that I have ever wanted for her.
This too. I said it at one time but now I don't care, one way or the other.

I say don't give her a date. When April comes, ask her what she wants and then do what you feel you need to.

<small>[ February 14, 2003, 04:34 AM: Message edited by: Chris (CA123) ]</small>