Sorry for the hijack here, but Pepper:

So, would it be "honest and open" of me to share your post with my W? Or would that be "educating" her. It's not educating paw, in the strictest sense of the word as we use it here, because paw started this thread for feedback like this, whether she realizes it or not.

-ol' Qfwfq

~Q~ .... If you ever want SF with your W again ... you won't share this post with her. If your W ever says she wants to "talk" to me .... give her my cell phone # and I will be her best friend for as long as it takes ... cuz I don't want SF with her!!! LOL! but.... I'm serious.

Pepp:

I understand!

But I no longer have your number, since I no longer have the hotmail account.

Seriously, I may ask her if she'd be willing to talk to someone other than a C.

-Qfwfq

paw --

Please don't think my post was attacking you -- it was attacking the glory board.... for in all my years on the net and now web I had never seen anything like it (naive, I know)

I'm sorry you are in pain -- but right now because I am so close to my H having an A (we haven't even reached the first anniversary of the first time they were physical with each other) -- I can't imagaine having compassion for the OW, much less acknowledging that the OW is in pain.

For all I see is that there was no compassion for me when OW and FWH were together and if OW is feeling pain is from something she had a a choice in doing and making for herself -- I had no choice in becoming a BS.

I think many BSs are in the same place -- but like us BSs that must eventually let go -- so must you.

Let him live his life, let him return to being a moral leader for his congregation -- let him cease hurting those whom God has given him charge. Let go

You also have a life full of possibilities -- why do you want ot settle for seconds?

<small>[ February 13, 2003, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: way2complicted2 ]</small>

Paw, I really hope you didn't actually go to gloryb and that you're still here watching this thread, because I do think there are things here at MB that can help you.

One of the underlying principles of MB is that meeting someone's most important EN can cause them to fall in love with you. The flip side of that is that if you're not meeting those needs, they can fall out of love with you and vice versa. So sometimes we get BS that come here, vent their anger and frustration at what their WS is doing to them, and take it pretty badly when someone points out that there's a good chance that the WS has been feeling neglected or unloved because EN have gone unmet and this has allowed an OP to step in and fill that spot.

We're always careful to say that that does not excuse the behavior of the WS, but it can be pretty tough medicine to take when you're already dealing with the pain and anger associated with this sort of betrayal. But it's important for these people to understand this, because if they don't, the underlying causes of the A are never addressed.

So without making light in any way of what you've done in having this affair, what I'm trying to say is that you fell in love with him because he was meeting some or all of those ENs that are most important to you. You fell out of love with your H because he wasn't -- or because he was LB'ing in some way that couldn't be made up for by the ENs he was meeting.

Your memories of the OM and how he made you feel are probably pretty strong, but you never had to pay bills with him or share the bathroom with him or pick up his dirty socks day in and day out. And doing that can really blunt the effect of those rose-colored glasses that you're still viewing him through.

The fact is that this is a man with a lot of faults. He's not perfect, nor is he the perfect person for you. Case in point: the man is married and has children. Allimony, child support, visitation, the opinions/condemnation of family members, and a whole host of other complications can and will strain any subsequent relationship with this man if you try to get back in touch with him. All of those things would eventually over-shadow those pretty feelings from the A for one or both of you, and you'd find yourselves struggling to make the R work longterm.

But that's only half of the equation.

You're back with your H, but you haven't said anything about EN and LB. Have you addressed the issues that made you look outside your M for something else? Is your H meeting your EN?

Unless you do that, face those issues head on and work on them with your H, you're just back in the same R that you stepped out on before. Only this time, it's with a lot less trust and a whole host of pain and insecurity tagging along for good measure.

The key to your feelings is two-part.

Stop looking at that OM through those rose-colored glasses. Take a good, hard look at all those complications that would have strained your R with him. There's a reason why only 5% of affairs survive as marriages.

The other part is your current R with your H. Go to the bookstore and order His Needs, Her Needs and Surviving an Affair. Read them. Fill out the EN and LB questionairs. Until you two work on fixing what was missing in your M to begin with, I don't see how you can possibly expect to stop waiting for that OM to ride back into your life on a white horse and sweep you away.

Mere

this may not be a popular thing to say...

but, i don't think that paw7764 needs gloryb (om/ow centered) or marriagebuilders (bs centered)...

she needs a forum that i know i serach for and to date have been unable to find... a forum with the same principles as marriagebuilders but where the plans are set up for and the thrust of the support is for and about the ws...

oaktown...

<small>[ February 13, 2003, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: oaktown ]</small>

I don't think it exists either Oaktown.

Where I used to post had some good support for OW.... but there were no MB-like principles .... and there were regular flame-fests that bashed both sides.

I think PAW could stay here and work on her M!!! But, if she feel as though she can't express her hurting during withdrawl .... then she'll likely leave.

<small>[ February 13, 2003, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

I might as well jump in, if she wants to go to the other site, and check it out, she will see much pain there too, because if ONE could stay objective enough and really read on both, you see the pain everyone suffers. People we are human beings not cyborgs, and everyone learns "life's lessons" in their own time, we can't beat up everyone who isn't learning as fast as we think they should or are not at that level within themselves. I have been here since October and I am seeing so many people get "thumped". Why? We are all here for healing, knowledge, growth, can we just help guide others and not stomp their guts out doing so. When YOU PUT YOUR EMOTIONS into a post about someone else, then you have tunneled the objectivity that will be needed to hep that person open their minds to see different perspectives. Kinda like love versus infatuation, love is subtle almost like a whisper that you know is there and it makes you feel and grow and it does not seem to be overbearing and bold. Infatuation sweeps in like a nor'easter swinging a baseball bat and heaven help anyone who gets caught up in it because there is no rhyme or reasoning involved, until the storm subsides you can't catch your breath to see your way clear.
Can we not then try to approach with less caught up "self emotion" when someone is reaching out in confusion, doubt and blindness.... I am not a polyanna, and anyone who's read my posts knows that, but this is getting way above and beyond what is theraputic. Mark, I understand why you made that statement about your wife, justifiably so. I am the BS, and yes it hurts to hear some of the things that WS's post, but they are honest in their emotions and they help us as we help them. JMHO

I'm an ex Ow and I'll tell you this (JMHO of course).

There's nothing wrong with missing the OM. The only question is what are you going to do about it. In AA they say "think through the drink".

In your imagination, you call him. Then what. ANd what after that. Then after that....

Be realistic. Be honest with yourself. And don't stop projection when the good stuff ends. THink it all the way through to divorce court.

I think it's really normal to miss the OM. I know I do. But when I think about it in any real way it just doesn't add up.

Additionally, you've got to be really realistic about this thing. Your A ended for a reason.

TAlk about your feelings in a safe space (maybe here, maybe not). Let those feelings feel the light of day. Denial of them will ONLY screw you!! Even if folks get mad, say your truth. That's the only way to work though this stuff.

Trust me, i'm 18 months in a honest monogomous relationship. For some it's natural. For me it's WORK!!! I miss the drama. I miss OM. I miss passion, stolen moments, the whole 9.

Now that the affair is over, I like me. And that matters.

Be well
KS
katiescar@hotmail.com

Qf and Mark,

I think it took a lot of guts to say out loud that your spouses still have feelings about (for?) exOP. My H's affair wound up in a pregnancy. So, he feels guilty on many fronts:
* a young woman gave up 7 years of her life when she should have been finding someone of her own, [LIST] [*]he caused his wife of 20 years unspeakable pain, especially in having a child with another woman when the wife was infertile [*]a young woman gave up 7 years of her life when she should have been busy finding someone of her own [*] he has a child who lives 2,000 miles away and will grow up without spending much time with her father and will probably wonder why she was rejected [*] he knows that his whole family (and mine) look at him differently and probably always will

I can live with the fact that he loved her or had some sort of emotional tie to her. I find it hard to define such a disfunctional relationship as love, but that is more up to the two of them to define than it is to me. He says he loved me though it all; I don't tell him so, but I doubt it. If that's love (cheating), God save me from that kind of love. I wouldn't be able to live with him however if I knew that he were still doing the kind of looking back and mouring that Paw seems to still be doing. His vision is turned in the right direction. He is looking at me and we are looking towards our future.

MJ

Maryjanes

Thank you for your understanding and constructive critism. I guess that post was my way of screaming for help and to my overwhelming surprise I got it. I have located the questionnaires mentioned to me that are provided by MB and I will address those with BS ASAP. I really believe that part of the problem in me getting over feelings for this OM is because I still play at the same church where OM was pastor. But because I have played for this church for 10 years and myself and my children have roots and traditions established here I feel like I need to stay and try real hard to work through this. This is the church I grew up in and I came along before he did. The reason he is no longer there is because he resigned because people found out about the A and he thought it would be best for the church if he left.
thanks again

johnh39
Thanks for your reply. Yes he knows. We divorced over the A but we have since been trying again. But for reasons I explained I am having trouble doing that.

Thanks

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>PAW

I've had years of experience posting to OW on another message board. The deal is this ... you CAN talk yourself out of those feelings!!! You NEED to talk yourself out of those feelings.

Feelings are NOT concrete. Feelings are electrical impulses in your nervous system. If you put in the effort, you can re-route those electrical impulses, and get some new and different feelings!

Start here

List all the ways in which being the "other woman" has hurt you.

For example:

1. Being on hold with my plans until he can get away.
2. Watching him shower off my smells as he leaves to go home to his wife and family.

These are just a small example of very, very negative things you NEED to highlight in your memory banks in order to re-route the electrical and neurochemical impulses in your brain.

Make a really long list of all the crummy things you put up with and did in order to become "the other woman"..... Also, look at that phrase ... "THE OTHER WOMAN" .... how demeaning is that! Not good enough to be the woman he's married to, but good enough to lie with and seduce for selfish pleasure.

You NEED to de-glamorize the relationship in order to move on.

Force yourself to do this. It will hurt, and make you feel dirty ... but, it is a doorway to a healthier and cleaner life with less stupid regrets over a man who treated you as "other" rather than as "special" the way you deserve to be treated.

REMEMBER THIS......He may have told you that you were *special* to him ~~~~ but his actions were not respectful nor honorable. MEN LIE TO GET WOMEN WHO ARE NEEDY AND LONELY TO SLEEP AROUND WITH THEM!

Make your list of ways you were humiliated and get started re-wiring your brain to experience new and better feelings!

PS~~~~ HOw about listing your relationship with God as one of the many things you sacrificed in order to be "the other woman"???? How bad is that?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for your reply. I never would have thought about it that way if you hadn't posted that information

vise. Reading y

Wow! I hadn't thought of that. You are going somewhere a couple of times per week that strongly remind you of your affair. Imagine how you H must
feel when he goes there.

I found out about my H's affair when I found pictures of him, exOW and their child on a sightseeing trip to the city we all used to live in. (The affair had started years earlier when we all lived near each other. Now we had moved 3,000 miles away and she had returned to her family home when she came up pregnant. My H traveled constantly on business and was able to keep the affair going long distance. They had met in the city where we all used to live.)

H would like to go back there and visit some day. (Remember that exOW and OC are not there anymore.) We have old friends there, we loved the city but now I can't stand to even see pictures of those landmarks because I see him standing in front of the bridge, skyline, restaurant holding their baby.

I have forgiven; we even have visitation and I now know exOW and have pounded out a working relationship with her, but I don't think I could ever return to the "scene of the crime" so to speak.

MJ

May 25 2001 ..... for anyone thinking of flaming this woman .... look at this date. This is when the affair was ended. She is here to discuss her feelings. HER FEELINGS which are causing her pain, and keeping her from experiencing life's joys fully. She is not here to break up OM's marriage,or to justify her affair ... but, she is searching for a door leading away from this demoralizing affair aftermath.

Paw~~ Are you praying for a way out of this hell?

Pepper:

Acknowledged!

I think MY W is trying to do the same thing.

-Qfwfq

Maryjanes

OT left BS was able to come back about a month after he left. He never expressed a problem attending church after he left, only while he was there. BS has never been very active in the church, so he didn't seem to have a whole lot to overcome in that area. BS inactivity in the church is a big LB for me and will be addressed when I start filling out the EN questionnaire. Christian leadership is an important EN for me which probably explains the PART OF EN fullfilled by OT. However I understand there wasn't a whole lot of christian leadership experienced in our A.

thanks

Maryjanes (sorry)

I meant to start out
"When OM LEFT THE CHURCH"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>May 25 2001 ..... for anyone thinking of flaming this woman .... look at this date. This is when the affair was ended. She is here to discuss her feelings. HER FEELINGS which are causing her pain, and keeping her from experiencing life's joys fully. She is not here to break up OM's marriage,or to justify her affair ... but, she is searching for a door leading away from this demoralizing affair aftermath.

Paw~~ Are you praying for a way out of this hell?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YES

Hi Paw,

Welcome to MB. As you can see your current status isn't a coveted one around here but if you are here for real help, then buckle down and start doing some reading.

Acquaint yourself with MB info here as if your life depended on it. I know I did.

I read the concepts section, took the EN questionnaire, had a session with Steve (along with the WS), read the books Surviving an Affair, his needs/her needs, love must be tough, givers/takers, etc. Posted here a lot asking many questions, crying and keeping a journal.

It is important to work on you. Then there will be less time to think about the OM.

Hope this makes sense.

L.