Well, I did what you suggested and he has finallly adimitted to the EA. How do we make them see what a huge mistake they are making? How can they consider that a few stolen conversations with some stranger are worth jeaopardizing a family and a marriage of 13 years? Are they crazy? The OW in this case is goig through her own divorce. Perfect! I guess she did not want to have to wait to long for her next sucker to come along. I don't know how I will go from here, but I guess his admission is a start, right?

Go --

This isn't what any of us wanted to have confirmed, but we all knew it nonetheless. I'm very sorry for this development but I'm also grateful for the opportunity it brings.

You said that you were afraid that you would stay stalled if you didn't start working on this. Now, here's your chance to fight together for your marriage and family--on the same team! It's the "icebreaker" you both needed. His admission is more than just a start toward your recovery, it's the vital and necessary first step that has come about in really the only way possible to move your reconciliation forward. Until H recognized the destructiveness of his actions, until he realized what he was doing to you, his family, himself, until he faced himself and you, your relationship was not just spinning its wheels, but was actually deteriorating daily.

Now, it's no longer on hold. Now the two of you are able to confront your demons and work out the problems. MC is a must; you need professional guidance and direction. Don't try to fix these leaky pipes yourselves; get a good plumber! Use the Harleys right here on this site. They're excellent and they deal with these exact problems every day. Or get someone good locally. We'll help you through this phase all we can, so continue to post here and keep us apprised.

"Are they crazy?" -- Yes, in a non-clinical sense. The Fog obliterates any rational, sane, and comprehensive perspective for a WS. Their focus is reduced to a selfish pinpoint. Doesn't excuse them in any sense, but they become virtually incapable of basic right-and-wrong decisions. The OP becomes the sole but very shaky foundation for their world of fantasy. Building your beach home fifty yards out into the surf isn't terribly bright, even at low tide! Crazy? You'd better believe it! Is it ever worth it? No, never...unless something good can come out of this pain.

Go, you've got a good running start here. The all-important "confession" has happened. The "gift" that Richard Bach talks about is your chance to emerge from this darkness with an even better and stronger marriage. Now you guys take the ball and go all the way with it! We're pulling for you.

Ammon

<small>[ February 15, 2003, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: Ammon ]</small>

Sorry -- double post!

<small>[ February 15, 2003, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: Ammon ]</small>

Ammon, Thank you for your kindness and advice. My H has actually read some of your posts along with other info. I have printed off the internet regarding the EA. I think(?) he is starting to realize that this is textbook stuff. That his confusion is not about a real relationship with OW, but rather the fog and confusion that fantasy has caused him. Any way, I hope! At least he is willing to read the information that I have been giving to him and even thanking me for it! I have told him that by the end of this weekend he needs to decide and communicate to me, in no uncertain terms, that he will never talk to, or see, OW again. Boy, he has lied, lied, lied-that is really tough to accept. Anyway, thank you for your advice. I really think that this site was the reality shot that I needed to recognize the EA and finally confront him with the needed information to make him see how destructive it can be also. It is a relief for me,and I think for him, to see that many marriages go through this, that this is the result of a loss of focus on each other and not some major disease of our relationship.

Go:

You may consider proceeding with caution as to how to educate him. You can't really "force" someone to see the light. Many times the fog causes the WS to think "but my situation is different."

It might be more worthwhile to see if he will agree to a telephone counseling session with Steve Harley. Sometimes an impartial third party can help to show how textbook EA's really are.

You may also wish to call Steve first, so you can prime Steve on the situation. That way, you can develop a definitive plan of action. I would do whatever Steve says in this matter.

Good luck and God Bless!

Go --

When we are going through this pain and confusion, we are so close to "the action" that we often need an outside, objective perspective to help us see what we can't (or don't want to); the old "can't see the forest for the trees" syndrome.

The Fog is harmful to a marriage in so many ways and on so many levels. Its effects are as insidious as they are destructive, even to the WS. While it can take time to extricate oneself from its damaging cloud, the key is intent. When the Fog lifts, clarity and remorse and contrition can begin to return. Or it can go the other way, those feelings and realizations can make the Fog lift.

H is beginning to regain his balance. He's starting to see through the wisps exactly what his poor choices have done, to you, to your relationship, to himself. He's starting to realize how close he has come to destroying your marriage. All good and necessary realizations. He's finally "getting the picture."

This sort of thing, these A's, do happen to far too many marriages. But they don't "just happen" and this didn't just happen to yours. At the very least, it is a "result of a loss of focus on each other" and, while it isn't "some major disease of our relationship," it IS an obvious symptom of problems which absolutely must be addressed. Something like this cannot be permitted to happen again; the two of you can prevent its reoccurence.

Well, the long weekend has come and gone; the deadline for H's decision is upon us. What's the chosen path to be? I hope, with you, that it's the right one! Please let us know. We're here for you...

Ammon

Thank you all for the concern and advice. Things are a bit confusing here for me at the moment. H seems to feel very badly about how he has made me feel. We have been very close this weekend, emotionally and physically. I know that we have to actually deal with what is really going on here and I do know that all of this occurred because of our loss of focus and building resentments towards each other. Everything has been great the past few days, however I feel sad and confused. I also feel so tired...I don't know that he will ever truly understand how this has made me feel and I really don't want to hit him over the head with it right now. I have not actually asked him for his final answer on talking to the OW again. He has said over and over that he is not in communication with her anymore, but he promised that a long time ago and obviously did not stick to it. I want to talk to him about the NC letter and see if he will put one together. Overall, I have felt all along that he loves me very much and is just confused. I still feel that he loves me, but I know that we have a long way to go. I just hope that if it all works out, I will someday let go of the constant fear that he will be pushed in this direction again. (it seemed way to easy for him to turn his back on me in my time of need and find someone more fun to talk to.) I guess, I want some of this goodness to set in before we start dissecting everything. I am also afraid of pushing too much. We have been through quite a range of emotions this weekend and I think that we both need a little break. Do not fear, I am prepared to do a lot more work, a lot more counseling and a lot more soul searching before I say that we are out of the woods!

Spoke with H last night. Asked him how he feels about everything. He said that he does not want to hurt me or our children and really feels that he wants to work on our relationship. Considering last week he said he did not know if he even wanted to work on it, or could, I know that this is a big step in a positve direction. I asked him to discontinue all communication with OW, even including quitting a committee that he is on in which he occassionally sees her and he agreed. I showed him an NC letter and suggested that he construct one and he said he wanted to consider the best way to do that. Agreed to show me the letter and not talk to her in person or via the phone. He continues to claim that he and OW were just at the friendship stage of EA, discussing problems in their marriages, not planning on being together, however it is hard for me to believe that he has continued to talk to her through all of our turmoil and my pleadings that he not. After reading some information on EA, he sees that maybe there was a little more of a connection there than he realizes and that he was probably getting something from her that he shouldn't have been-on an emotional level. What can I say? He continues to say how wrong he was and sorry he is and that this is really about our loss of connection, not really anything to do with her. I guess that I need to make sure he writes NC letter and then move on to focusing all energies on making things better with us and not harping on his relationship with her.

Go --

Thanks for the two updates. Glad you're keeping in touch with us. We're very good in the Support and Understanding departments (lol!).

I had to smile when you said, "I want some of this goodness to set in before we start dissecting everything." -- I hear you! Proceeding slowly and with caution is smart and usually necessary when relationships are where yours seems to be. Besides, you live it 24/7; we're just "random interlopers" and don't have the perspective that you have. A "little break" is a wise move.

You have to go with what you're feeling at the time and with what you know to date. We never have enough information to make all of the really important decisions in our lives. We have to go with where things are for us at the moment of decision. We do the best we can with what we have to work with--and that's all anyone can do, ever.

I remain very positive for you two. Gentle discussions about a NC letter are a good thing. H's continuing statements about how wrong he was and sorry he is are good things. You've got a comprehensive, in-tune awareness of the situation and H is just beginning to join you in that.

H could very well be correct: practically speaking, all A's are about that "loss of connection," and not nearly so much about a particular OP. That person is merely symbolic, a "metaphor" for a real or perceived emptiness within the primary relationship. Many BS's blame the OP for stealing their spouse when the reality often is that the spouse was "up for grabs" to the first bidder.

The challenges then become those of awareness and protection. Something in your relationship allowed this A to happen. Something permitted your H to go in that direction rather than to choose the healthier but far more difficult path of identifying and working out the problems. Down the road, you guys MUST address those issues. Strong and dedicated MC work will guide you through the process.

You're right: you're not out of the woods yet but isn't it nice finally to be able to see glimpses of sunlight through those trees? This is doable and you CAN do it! I have high hopes for your recovery!

Ammon