I just keep digging myself deeper and deeper. I told my wife that I want her back and she says that there is no way. So what do I do? I flip out start crying telling her how much I need and want her. Tell her I will change and all that junk. She says get a back bone and get over it. I just dont want to lose my family that easily I guess.

So I back off for a day or two (mind you I am flying back to Germany on Friday) and we start to talk. She says that maybe we can hang out one day. So I get a little bit of hope. So what does my dumb [censored] do? I go over to her place and try to talk to her. Then she starts up with the mean things again. This has happend twice now in the past week. I am such a emotion wreak right now. I dont know what to do. How can a woman that was with me for 10 years just all of a sudden in one month go from loving and missing to wanting nothing to do with me?

So what is a guy to do. She is seeing somebody that she knows wont work (he wants no kids and we have two)But he has money so I guess that fixes everything. She keeps blaming me for everything that went wrong. I let her sign the seperaion papers, I let her get on the plane and leave, I didnt spend anytime with her when I was home in Dec. Yes I signed the papers, yes I let them fly out of my life, but no, I did see her in Dec. I called her many times for us to get together. But now she dont want a thing. Not even a glimer in the futer.

The question that I have is when is enough going to be enough? I want my family so much but its a one way street. What is a Guy who loves his family so much that he is willing to overhaul his life to do? Please help me.
Dan

sandcrab,

I'm no expert on anything... but I'll put in my two bits.

You've got to stop chasing her.

Back off a little, give her some space, some time. If you stop chasing, she'll stop running. She might not move toward you, but she won't have any reason to keep moving away. Do the "plan a" - self improvement thing. When you do have contact with her, don't beg, cry etc. - just be as upbeat as you can. Of course, you don't want to come across as phoney, but begging etc. is unlikely to help.

Just my two bits.

Good Luck.

-AD

I know exactly how you feel, but I agree with AD...Let her see you moving on with your life...she may get curious....just a thought...

You are needing to let her be. She seems to be saying when you grow up I might come back. Losing your family hurts, causes such a stir in your emotional status. Get counseling, and on anti-depressants. Let her see you as a strong man, willing to change, making changes, but remember this doesn't happen overnight. It happens slowly, with baby steps.

Good luck. And I hope you all have a safe strip flying. God be with you!

Hey all. Update here. Yes I realize that I need to back off and I have. I just dont understand her sometimes. One minute she wants to hang out and the other its I dont want you anymore. Its just so hard knowing that I am leaving in a few days and not sure when I will be back. She keeps saying you didnt want me in Dec. But thats not true I was just taking it slowly. How come she would love to see me then but now I cant get the time of day with her.

I still cant figure out if she doesnt love me anylonger then why does she still have pictures up of me. Not of me and kids but ones of just me and I have never lived in this house. Do you all think that this new guy she is seeing is fogging her mind?

She says that she loves me because I am the father of our children. Isnt that a start and a good reason to want to fix this marriage. All I see is the good points of our life and all she sees is the bad ones.

What do you all think. Do I have a chance or what. I think she is lying to her self and wont open up a little to me because she is affraid what might happen. But for now I am going to start a plan A. Im not sure how this is going to work because I live in Germany right now but I am working on geting home so maybe I can save my marriage. Does anyone have any advice for me? Thanks so much for all your help
Danny

I sure wish some of you could give me some words of encouragement. I am about to lose it. Can anyone help me!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi Danny,

Perhaps I can give some encouragement. I hope you don't mind if I go about it in kind of a round about way.

First, I would like you to think about what it is that you want. Do you really want to save your marriage. If yes, how bad? Bad enough to plan A for a year even if she is not responding? Bad enough to be nice to her even when she is not nice to you?

If you do think you can do this kind of stuff, you need to figure out how you are going to plan A her and write it all down and then do it.

One of the problems that I ( and many others here ) make is that we let the mood and actions of our spouse affect how we treat them from day to day. If you are going to make this work, you have to be willing to work the plan no matter what she does - for at least a while. You already know she doesn't think clearly some times yet you sometimes base what you will do on what she says.
That is not a good idea when she doesn't know what she wants, and when she can't think clearly.

So, I recommend you think about what you want, and are willing to do, and go on from there.

I don't know how much you have read here, but if you have decided to go for it, you need to study up and learn the best ways to make it work for you. There is a lot to learn.

I suppose if I condensed this down it would be this: Calm down, figure out what you want, and then make a plan to get it. IT is a long term thing, it can't be done in a weekend. Start looking at it that way, read, study, and then do what you need to do.

You can make a difference, but you have to be willing to do the work. Let us know.

SS

PS,
Sometimes you can come and get quick responses, and othe times, we are all away changing diapers or washing dishes. You just have to take what you can get. Sorry but that's the way it works.

<small>[ February 18, 2003, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Danny,

Late responder here!!!

Don't go with her mood swings... When she goes to the other end, just ask her.... how long with this attitude last? (could be LB but it is a valid question). She will look puzzled and you say, yep I'm confused, please let me know when you will be acting like you did .....(name the time when it was acceptable behavior). Just like we do with our kids. Ya know?

In the mean time, pay attention to SS and study.

L.

<small>[ February 19, 2003, 01:04 AM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Thank you. I have been studying very much. The problem with that is it makes me more depresed because I see where we went wrong with our marriage. This is going to drive me nuts. I really want to make this marriage work but right now I am asking myself is she is worth it. I love this woman so much. I love our children more than anything (I am a wonderful Dad) but yet she would rather go out and sleep with men. Not with one certin guy but with who ever will have her.

What do I do with her when it comes to a plan A? Do I not talk to her at all or do I still keep in contact but always be nice to her. This is eating me up inside.

I cant figure out why? I know I keep analizing everything she does but I cant seam to make myself stop.

All of our problems have been stupid little stuff. I am so unhappy with my life in Germany that I took it out on her. Now that I am ready to change things she wants nothing to do with me. I know I keep asking the same questions but nobody has answered them yet. Why does she still have pictures of me? Why does she still have the flowers I sent her? All I want is a small let down of her wall. Yesterday me and the kids asked her if she would like to go to the park with us. It was a beautiful day. She said no. She said she was tired from work. Mind you she called in sick the 2 days prior to that and she wasnt even sick. The boys were very upset and I was hurt too because that was something we had always done together in the past. What I think is that she is afraid to open up to me a little. I think if she opens up she will see some light and maybe want to work things out, but yet she is having so much fun right now that it doesnt matter to her. What does she have to lose. If she truely doesnt want to be with me then she wont be hurting. I am willing to risk being hurt again (even though I dont think I could hurt any worse). She keeps saying "why do you keep messing with my head like this" I asked to have on night with her before I left. She said it wont be good for either one of us. So with that said I still think she has feelings for me.

Why am I such a horrible person. I think she is going through a selfish phase right now. She is not giving our kids the love and attention they need why I am away. Heck she has even been neglecting our dog, and thats not like her.

I am going to stop rambling now. I am so devistated I cant even think clearly. WHAT DO I NEED TO DO? Can some one please help me outline a plan to fix my life.
Thank you all so much for being here for me!!!!!
Danny

Hi Danny,
I have been studying very much. The problem with that is it makes me more depressed because I see where we went wrong with our marriage. This is going to drive me nuts.
I also found where I went wrong in my marriage, and then I started to fix it. It may make you depressed, but it gives you a starting point. We have to know what went wrong before we can fix something.
It will drive you nuts unless you begin a plan to fix it.

I really want to make this marriage work but right now I am asking myself is she is worth it. I love this woman so much. I love our children more than anything (I am a wonderful Dad) but yet she would rather go out and sleep with men. Not with one certain guy but with who ever will have her.

We know what she is doing is not right, but like I said, you have to figure out what you want. You have to make up your mind if she is worth it. If you don't know, you won't do a good enough job. You can ask your self if it is worth 6 months of plan A to see if it can be saved. Only you can answer that.

What do I do with her when it comes to a plan A? Do I not talk to her at all or do I still keep in contact but always be nice to her.
You stay in contact as often as you can, and you be nice to her. You e-mail her, you wish her a nice day, you call her when you can and you talk about the kids. Get these books "His needs, Her needs" and also "Surviving An Affair" from a bookstore near you or order from this site. You can have them send to your APO. Read them and get an idea of what her needs are after you think on it and then you can start to meet them. Note that our first reaction is to blast them for what they are doing wrong, but as DR Harley points out, when you are angry and mean to someone they tend to not like you. That's why you try to be nice. You can still tell her your feelings " It hurts me when you go out with others, I love you and I want to stay married to you." But, you should not do it in an angry or judgmental way. What things make her happy? Do those things as well as you can.

This is eating me up inside. I cant figure out why? I know I keep analyzing everything she does but I cant seam to make myself stop. All of our problems have been stupid little stuff. The way you stop is to spend your time figuring out how you are going to fix things. And you spend time planning how you are going to be nice to her and make her happy. Little things? Most of life is little things and it is what we do with them each day that determines how our life ends up. If it came apart little by little, it can be put back little by little.

I am so unhappy with my life in Germany that I took it out on her. Now that I am ready to change things she wants nothing to do with me.
We often do this, many of us are here because we caused the problem with Love Busters, things we do to withdraw love units from our spouses love bank. If you took them out you may be able to put them back.

I know I keep asking the same questions but nobody has answered them yet.
Remember that we are here to get help just like you are. We don't know everything. I suggest you get professional counseling along with your other efforts. Lets look at some of your questions.

Why does she still have pictures of me?
Could be lots of things. Could be she is to lazy to throw them out. Could be she still loves you but is lost. We don't know, but I always figure it is a good sign when they keep them. So, count it as a good sign, but don't bet on it yet.

Why does she still have the flowers I sent her?
Same, we don't know. But I have seen many gals toss them the minute they get them. So, I would take this as a positive also. It can be that she will wait a few months and see if the changes you claim to be making are real. Are they? I am not trying to be funny or to yank your chain, that may be what it comes down to.

All I want is a small let down of her wall.
That wall was built brick by brick over some months, it will come down the same way. Plan A, be nice to her.

Yesterday me and the kids asked her if she would like to go to the park with us. It was a beautiful day. She said no. She said she was tired from work. Mind you she called in sick the 2 days prior to that and she wasn't even sick. The boys were very upset and I was hurt too because that was something we had always done together in the past. What I think is that she is afraid to open up to me a little.
Perhaps she is afraid, perhaps she thinks SHE will just get hurt again. It will take steady long term improvement on your part - and then we still don't know what the outcome will be. It's hard to put in a good 6 months of plan A and not know. but at least at the end you will know you did all you could, and that's worth a lot.

She keeps saying "why do you keep messing with my head like this"
To me that means it has started her thinking, and that is good. Keep messing with it.

I asked to have on night with her before I left. She said it wont be good for either one of us. So with that said I still think she has feelings for me.
You can only ask, not demand by word or action, no threats of bad treatment if she says no, and begging is not good either. Try to ask for things in loving ways.

I think she is going through a selfish phase right now. She is not giving our kids the love and attention they need why I am away. Heck she has even been neglecting our dog, and that's not like her.
And you were in a selfish phase when you were taking out your feelings about Germany on her. Why you? Why her?
We do this stuff sometimes, you can't change her right now. What you want is for her to see the good in you so that when she comes out of it she will want to make your marriage work. That's plan A.

WHAT DO I NEED TO DO? Can some one please help me outline a plan to fix my life. Start this way.

1. Be nice to her while you are still around her. Tell her you want to stay married, that know you can't make her but that you wish she would think about it.

2. Get the books, study so you have enough background to make a plan.

3. Get counseling by your self and Marriage counseling next time you return if she will go.

4. After you have read enough, figure out what her Emotional Needs are and make the plan to meet them - there is a lot you can do from a distance.

5. Work the plan for as long as you can stand it, revise it as you go.

6. Hope she responds in a positive way.

One of the outcomes of plan A is that it makes you into a much better person. No matter what happens, you get to keep the improvements you make. That is a big plus any way it goes.

Hope this helps.

SS

Still Seeking Thank You sooooo MUCH

I know you are all busy and looking for your own questions answered. So one more time thank you very much.

Well I talked to her tonight, get this she went and got her nipples pierced. 28 year old mother of two. What ever. But any way, yes I do want to make this marriage work so I am going to get those books and start smothering her with kindness. I hope I start to drive her crazy. Even though she told me again tonight that it is for sure over and if I were home from Germany that she would file for divorce.

I get the impression that she still loves me too because of all the personal effects on the wall that have me in them and she still has the flowers I gave her. Also when I came over to her house she had her little sisters over and some frineds. So I saw that they were there and I walk out and said that I would talk to her later because I wanted to see her not her and friends. She talked me into staying and then introduced me to them as her husband. Later on she was talking on the phone and she refered to me as her husband again. I dont know, maybe Im looking into this to much. She told me to get home and we will see what happens but then later on she said that she was only telling me what I want to hear.

So as of now I am going to start working on myself. Going to get some counsiling and study up on improving my marriage. Thanks for listening to me and if you have any input please let me know. Good night to you all.
Thanks...Danny

Danny,

We didn't dubb this the roller coaster ride for nuthin'. LOL!!!

Ok, given now that you know what ride you are on. Brace yourself. How? Keep reading. Know that she will like you today and hate you within minutes...... YIKES <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

So don't ride those waves up and down. Build up your personal support group so that when she does try to take you on a wild ride, you will be strong enough NOT to play into her hands and be disappointed. Does she know she is doing this to you? Yes and No. Should she? Yes but remember this is also a fog thingy.

Now is the time for you to build up your self esteem. Work on bettering Danny. You can't control her but you can decide whether you will allow her to take your feelings and family on a ride.

There are some great dads here. I can't imagine how their wives could just up and run out on them...... I keep looking for that reason and haven't come up with one valid one. MOst of them feel like you. In fact a few browbeat themselves sooo much, I want to beat them over their head with a 2 X 4 and tell that to stop!!! LOL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Take care of you and your family. Easy to say and hard to do. That's why we are here.

L.

Thank you for the words of encouragement. But I need some more if you all don't mind. Right now she has me thinking that she really does not love me. Im about ready to give up. I know I pressured her all this week and that is not very attractive and thats why she is pushing me so far away. So tomorrow I fly home feeling like my marriage is over.

I ask a stupid question to her last night. What went wrong with our marriage. She started naming all these things and now it has me wondering if she had ever loved me and if its worth fighting for.

My plan right now is to go back to Germany get some therapy and see about some anti de presents to help get me through this. Then I am going to start plan A with her. Can you guys give me some ideas on how to do this being so far away. I just don't want to sound like I keep doing the same thing over and over again. I am also going to work on getting home so I can be with my boys because they really need me. Last night both of them told my mom that they dont sleep at their house very much and when they are home mommy gets them a baby siter and goes out. These two boys are 4 and 5 and are the sweetest things around. She has already been telling me that when I come home the oldest is going to live with me. Now how can she even think about spliting those two up like that.

I really do love this woman with all my heart. I just wish she would give me one more chance to show her that I can be a better person.

Well you all have a wonderful day and I will see you guys later. I am off to go buy me some books right now on how to fix this marriage.
Thanks so much...........Danny

Danny,
Don't ask her questions right now. Remember that she is not logical or reasonable. Don't tell her things you learn, don't try and teach her or change her mind yet. You need to better understand some things before you do that.

Just string her along like she does you. When she says she wants a D, just continue to say, " Well, I don't but I know I can't make up your mind for you. I would like to make our Marriage work."
Or words to that effect. Word it how you would say it.
Keep it simple, keep it consistant and loving.

Reading the books will help and what we are saying will make much more sense to you. It will give you a much better start on this.

SS

You guys have all been so great. I have been treating the W so nice and I already see a change in her. So by the time you guys read this I will be on a plane twords Germany. So I am a little sad about leaving but waht can I do. I have to go. I will write ya back when I get there to let you know whats been going on. Once again thank you for all your wonderful advice
Danny

Danny,

Have a safe trip and let us know how you are doing. We are all pulling for you here!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Remember to acentuate the postive! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

take care,
L.

Call her ( or e-mail) after you get to Germany. Tell her how the trip went, and that you are safe. Tell her you hope things are doing well at home. Ask about some things you know she may be concerned about ( that are going on at home.) You know, common every day problems that she has to deal with. Show her you care about that stuff even if you can't deal with it for her.

Do that as often as you can, and yes, please let us know how you are doing.

Remember that there will be good says, and bad days. Ride out the bad, draw strength from the good to help with the bad.

SS

You guys have been so wonderful. I hope one day I can return the favor. The flight was long and it felt like I was going back to prison. But on a good point I bought His Needs Her Needs for the plane ride. OMG I had never read a book from cover to cover in one sitting. I just could not put it down. I see now why I am where I am. This book should be issued to all people who are getting engaged so they know what to expect. But whats bugging me more is that I know this marriage is so fixable. I just need to get my wife to see that too. I want to buy the book for her and send it to her. I think if she reads it she "may" see me eye to eye on this. What do you all think. Do you think she will even read it? I see know that after reading it I need to do alot of simple changes that will only better the lives of me and my family. Plus it just seams so easy now knowing all this stuff that we had been doing wrong for the past seven years.

Now about me and her. The night before I left I went over and took care of a few things on her car. I didn't even talk about us just a few issues with the kids. (she got mad at me about that one) But when I brought the boys back to her later that night all I did was say my good byes to them and turn to her and asked her to walk me out the door. When she came out I looked her in the eyes and told her that I still would love to me married to her and will always love her no mater what happens. Then I turned and walked to my car. She said wait not even a peck on the cheek. So I came back and gave her a mild hug (her nipples are still sore from getting them pierced) and gave her a little kiss on her cheek. Then I told her that I was very proud of her ( she just passed her CNA boards at work) and that I have always been proud of the things she's done. I kissed her again this time on the lips. At first it was just a little peck but then it got some what passionate. She even sighed like she used to. I think she really enjoyed it. Then I left. What do you guys think of that?

Still Seeking I took your advice on sending her a nice e-mail telling her that I got home ok. I even asked her about the kids and her car. Then I told her to call me in the morning but only if she wanted to. Before I left I sent her a congratulations card with a nice short note to her. I also picked up a post card before I left San Francisco and wrote her while I was over the atlantic and I will send it to her on Monday. I hope I am not coming across to strong. I am just trying to let her know that I am here without pressuring her into wanting to get back together. More than anything I want her to want it too.

Well sorry for the long post. It just feels good getting some of this out. I am going to get some rest now. Jet lag sucks!!!!! Talk to you all soon.
Danny

UGHHHHH I hate this roller coster ride. One minute my spirits are up and then the next minute they are in the gutter.
I want to call her so bad right now but I dont want her to feel like I am presuring her. I asked her to call me but only if she wanted to. She wrote me back saying that she wouldnt call me because she just paid a hundred doller phone bill.
I am trying to be so patient but being so far away from her I feel like I have no control. Damn this so frustrating. ALL I WANT TO DO IS LOVE THIS WOMAN!!!!!!

Well I am going to go and try and get some sleep. Talk to you all in the morning.
Danny

Im missing my W more than anything right now. I am wanting to call her but Im controling that desire. What I would love to do is write her a heart felt email but I think it wont do any good yet. I hate being so far away from her. I feel so out of control. This really sucks. I did email her this morning but only to wish her a wonderful day and to let her know that I am thinking about her. Damn I wish I knew what was going on inside of her head right now. I just wish she would see that the guy she is seeing right now is just using her for sex. Heck he has even told her that he wants nothing to do with our children. Plus he is like 12 years older then she is. I think she is enjoying it to though. She says that its like living a fantasy because he does nothing but through money at her and have sex with her. Well Im going to go and sulk now in my worries. Damn I hate sundays. I hope you all are having a better one than I am.
Danny