I could read forever here.
I need to know what is happening with my bf.
We live together for 6yrs now.
Dated for 4 yrs. all together been ten.
I know most are married here and going through steps to fix or end.
I am searching for posts that lead to how to find out for sure.
I am tired of how he is treating me.
It's not right and he doesn't care.
What I'm concerned with is what is happening behind the scenes.
How do I find out can someone take me through the steps to finding the truth.
I have many questions that I get no answers to.
I am concerned that I have to find out the truth even if it hurts me.
I feel I as a person a human being has a right to know, even if he thinks it's none of my business.
I hope someone would take the time to give me the info I need to finding the truth as who he may be seeing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Barbara,

Check under my signature on 50 signs ... the most important signs are accountable time/place and also money. You start with journal on when he has unaccountable time and check the place if he tell you he is going there. Get detail cell phone and home phone and start with the most frequent called# that you don't recognize. Normal stuff, is there new woman parfume scent on his shirt or body ?. What do you expect to do if you find out ? .... snooping is one thing but how you use the info is the most important thing.

Let me know if those turns nothing ... -rh-

RedHat,
Thank you so very much for responding.
I am so upset it's been very long time of this.
He has no cell phone he feels it is a luxury.
He is always going to the store.
Yelling insults at me.
Or totally ignoring me.
It's very strange here.
He is always taking off in his car. He has a ready excuse he needs to see his mom, or go to his club. Or the store. He has no conscience. He is very very quiet. As today, sits watches tv, then at 3pm decided to go to his club, he'd only be an hour. I said I would go alone as some of the women do on Sundays. He was out and gone down the stairs. Backing his car out of the parking lot before I could even put on my coat.
Thanks for replying so fast. It gets lonely here reading like it's a ghost town......I have been coming here for a couple of years, before that I was visiting Infidelity.Com now they charge. There was a site they put up for the people already there that could not afford the cost. I forgot the new site name. Lost the link, I did feel that the married people felt threaten by me, the single but living together. I did feel slighted for this, I also felt that maybe the new site was to flush out the unmarrieds for the comfort of the long term marriages to stay together without worry. They did give clues on how to find out different ways. Now I forget and can't get back in.....I really need to know the truth and who........it is......what will I do you ask, I will be informed and not feel that I am what I am being labeled with by so and so, etc. I will feel better knowing WHO.......would do this to me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

can you hire a P.I. to tail him? Does he use a computer? Where does he go when he leaves?

Have you ask him straight forward ?. Listen, 10 years is a long time but another years of abuse is a wasted time. Don't know how old are you but even at 40 years old I am ready to braise the new world ahead of me ... I am Dv the end of last year. I refuse to wait another minutes after I try for many years. You have no legal issues and no kid with this guy, what do want to get out of this relationship ?.

Now, if he said that he is going to club, call someone that you know at the club to check it out. If he said that he is going to his mom, call his mom, use nay excuse then ask about him. I do beleive that he has other woman.

I do beleive you have a unique opportunity here to learn MB .... to make you iressistable mate <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> -rh-

What I think. Can't afford PI.

50 Indicators of Infidelity.

1. A sudden upturn in their demeanor or outlook on life.(meaner, swearing FU constantly knowingly he is doing it.)

3. More possessive toward wallet, pocket calendar or briefcase.(A year or so, maybe 2.)
4. Comes home more often with alcohol on breath.
(constantly)
6. Starts shopping for new clothes.(has shopped for two years.)
7. Starts taking a renewed interest in their appearance.(As above)

9. Orders dishes or new household items never ordered before.(Angry about his vegtable scrubber, and the stainless steel mixing bowls,etc.)
10. Does not look at other women/men as much as they used to.(Was more so before)

12. Express opinions on subjects that they never had an interest in.(Lots of additional sports. basketball never use to watch, now does. Football, golf was always, no more ice skating.)
13. Takes a new interest in anticipated schedule.
(something event then forget about it yet be ready to go to club just to stop by)
14. Encourages you to visit parents or friends alone.(constantly telling me to move in with my daughters.)
15. They give you gifts that show a new level of taste or insight about the opposite sex.(None at all.)
16. Car is kept free of paraphernalia belonging to you or the kids.(My stuff as in jacket, sweater, etc. keep my stuff out of his car. I am not allowed to go into his car ever again.)
17. Starts attending extended seminars or conventions.(Meetings he must attend alone, even though, he gave up his position.)
18. Start using new words and phrases.
(Same oh, same oh.)

22. Takes the dog for much longer walks.(if you consider OW as dog.)
23. Makes more phone calls late at night.(lately staying up later waiting for me to go to bed after 12am.Sometimes will wake in middle of night at 3am and stay up.)
24. A marked change of attitude towards secretary, colleagues or friends.(Hasn't seen anyone anymore.From the club.)
25. Suddenly takes up new hobbies or friends that take them out of the house in the evenings and weekends.(Needs to run down to the club. Needs to stop by and see his MOM. Who lives next state over.)
26. They talk about a movie they've seen but you have not.(Entering apt. talking like Al Pacino, yet more like the Sapronos)
27. They insist on answering the phone.
(Showed short fused when I answered the second ring call at 11am. Was really angry at me which seemed weird just because I picked up after days of this happening.Of course, no one was answered.)

30. They care about how breath smells. New mints, gum, etc. found around house.(mints, tic tacs in car door holder toothpaste in small sample size.Always grabbing candies as in lifesavers before running out the door.Filling pockets with several.)

32. Loses a lot of weight and seems proud of new body.(Refuses to eat breakfast, lunch sometimes even dinner. Doesn't want to eat out anymore.)

34. Gut feeling. The biggest indicator of an affair is just feeling that it is so.(Always in my heart too.)
35. Juvenile behavior and music interests!!!
(A few times acting like the Fonzi, pulling his collar of his jacket up as he enters his car.)
36. Uses more kid slang than the kids!!!!!
(Swearing up a storm as in every sentence.)
37. Knows all the new pop singers and has CD's.
(The boss.)
38. When they lose stuff they accuses you of gettting into their "stuff"....(out of the blue telling me to stay out of his stuff. To mind my own business.)
39. Uses the ATM way too much!
(Seems to be the same. I never see it though.)
41."It wasn't a dinner date - it was just a way of saying thank you for carpooling"
(when an event was clearly happening for his friend and we were going, up until I was finishing dressing as in putting on my skirt and he complained I wasn't ready. Which was weird to me for we had plenty of time to get there. Yet he just had to leave right then storming out the door. I found out he was there and his friend and his gf and another women was standing at the bar and he could not be found. Yet he was there sitting earlier.)
43. Grocery shopping and other excuses to get out "alone."(Last year or so, full of coupons in his car. Never used before. His pockets full of them.Says I don't know how to shop, needs to get in and out quickly. How I never want to shop.that he needs to do it himself.)

45. Carries toothpaste, toothbrush, mouthwash at all times.(has dental floss in bathroom and car yet he has no teeth of his own.)
46. When other person is co-worker, can't wait to get to work each day .(Use to be a few years ago when he did work part time. His boss, told me he was having his lunch in his car with a co worker, Sandy,assistant manager.)
47. Becomes great friends with people going through divorce.( It really didn't matter he has lots of friends single married.)
48. Defends other who are/have/will cheat(ed/ing).
49. Distances themselves from those with strong (any) moral values
50. Gets "coded" pager messages at all times of the day and night(One for sure I took)

Doesn't use a computer. Home by 9pm can't figure it out.Sometimes 9:30 a few times.....always the store. English Muffins, sweets he doesn't eat sweets at all.

This list of 50 things has so many things that I did that it makes me sick! ( I was the cheater.)
It's sick to know that all of us WS's seem to sink down to the lowest common denominators...

BTW, I went out the store frequently during the A so that I could use the pay phone there to call OM, who lived far away. Usually I went to a phone that wasn't in my neighborhood, to avoid detection. I always used a calling card-which OM bought for me. Never had a cellphone, either. This might be why your BF is going out to the store--to make calls.

Sad to say, my exH never knew of the A until after separation. It was amazingly , sadly easy to hide it. (I thought he HAD to know, how could he not see all of these changes in me!)

It sounds like your BF is very restless now. I remember feeling very restless and odd, during the A.

Just so you know, until I was separated, OM and I saw each other about once every four to six weeks or so, in the beginning it was every 8 weeks. We kept in daily contact by phone and by internet. OM was living with his wife until the last year of our affair, when he moved locally.

I'm sorry you're going through all this .

H_P

I agree with RH, sounds like he has someone on the side. Regardless if he does or not, what you have described here is nothing less than abuse. Mental abuse.

My advice is that you set some boundries. You do not deserve to be spoken to in the manner you have described. Make this plain to him. Seek help for yourself, and ask if he is willing to seek out counsiling for himself as well. Both of you together or seperatly if need be.

Keep reading here. Post any questions you may have.

Be ready for the rollercoaster to really get rolling if your fears are realized. Keep in mind that no matter what you find out you WILL be ok.

jd

Hopeful_person<
I don't beleive he is using the phone outside. He has no calling card. He leaves to go somewhere. One evening he left and I followed going around and found him just getting into his car from the store. I was at the corner where he could see me. He drove off I went down the side street and to where he mentioned he was going. Well, he wasn't there.
BTW, I went out the store frequently during the A so that I could use the pay phone there to call OM, who lived far away.

jdmac1,
What you said below is true. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> It's weird, for he is home everynite......it takes alot of thinking to unravel the mystery. I need to know who is involved. If I could afford a PI I would most certainly have hired one. Long ago. I need to do this myself. When someone treats me like this which in my eyes is way unfair to me as a person. I want to know I feel I have the right to know the person involved what kind of character they are to do such a hideous underhanded thing like this to someone. I know there has to be a Justification for sure for them to do this in the first place.
How did you find out .....the computer I could check, but he never uses it. It's the hangup calls. Rings twice around 10am, 11am. He leaves at 3 or 4 and sometimes 8pm a few nights a week. It's his coldness, that makes me wonder moreso.
It's his attitude that makes me ask myself what is going on. He said nothing is going on at all. He is not doing a thing wrong. He gets upset when I press the issue of where he is going then. He said he needs to shop alone. He has in the past returned with several bags of groceries. This was ongoing for awhile. We use to go out to dinner at least twice a week and now he refuses to do this anymore with me. This makes me angry for he is it seems always running out to do this or that, yet, we can not do anything together or even make plans. We did go out on New Year's Eve only because I made it an issue. Since it was a year ago since then. He will sit and watch TV for hours on end. I will clean house, laundry etc. all that has to be done.
The point is I just want to know once and for all.
Not just him admitting it, I want to know WHO. It is getting stranger then ever here. It's obvious something is not right. He denies all. I have tried being understanding but it is just too much bs......I am a human being with feelings just like him. This is what I say to him when I ask him what is wrong is he seeing someone else. He will yell out who do I think I am and that is when I say this to him above.....other times he is just quiet toooooooooooooo quiet. After returning from wherever, he is seems to me CONTENT. This is not right to do to me or anyone!!!!! I feel if he can do this to me, then I can snooop, and play detective. Only thing is I need some ammo........info on clues as in finding out where exactly he is going. He tells me he is going to the store leaving me with the idea a variety store, for milk or his beer.
He went to his club yesterday afternoon, I did call and he was there. I don't want to do this all the time. I rather just find out without his knowledge......so if he is truthful then fine.
I just feel there is something up and I beleive his friends know they would never say.
It's just a dirty trick to do to someone that doesn't deserve it. Wherever he is going for I have gone by to see and he was not to be found. A journal ......he knows how I feel. That movie Unfaithful..........I was told by his friend's girlfriend that I should see it.
This was over the summer. I never did see it, til I rented it last weekend. Anyway besides all that I still want to know for he is telling me I am crazy for thinking he may be when he is not at all. And if I do mention this, he then does the silent treatment all weekend and usually every weekend............that is why I am here........thanks guys for trying to help......I am just frustrated and very lonely........ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I agree with RH, sounds like he has someone on the side. Regardless if he does or not, what you have described here is nothing less than abuse. Mental abuse.

Barbara,

Do you I ask you, don't need to answer it if you are not comfortable with it. How old are you and how old is your BF ?. Do you have kids or does he has kids on his side ?.

-rh-

<small>[ February 26, 2003, 02:03 AM: Message edited by: BarbT ]</small>

<small>[ February 26, 2003, 02:04 AM: Message edited by: BarbT ]</small>

Barb,

Go to Radio Shack and get one of those voice activated tape recorders (the small one - s/b less than $100.00). Stick it in his car.

L.

Barbara,

Orchid beats me to it. Get VOR (Voice Activated Recorder) and try to stick it on his car. It works best if you stick it on the side compartment and cover it with some towel or something.

Please read upon MB ... ENs, POJA, LB, LB$ and most of all plan A. Use this to do self reflection and answer the one question, "am I willing to do the work to give the last shot ?". Print out LBQ and ENQ then fill it up as if he would. LBQ is list of no no ... avoid at all cost. ENQ is list of bottomless pits ... you need to fill it up as much as you can and as much as he allows you to. Then make a list of his complaint about you, as long as you could do it, FIX IT. Set yourself a timeframe to try this at your best ... anywhere from 6 months and up. I guarantee that it will have impact before even reaching one month .... He will push you more if you do plan A and he has an A.

BTW: I just learn one sig ..."Tough Times Don't Last But Tough People Do" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-rh-

Orchid,
Thanx for the idea. I just don't know where to put it. The dash is slanted and he'd see it. Under the seat I have done this. I feel he might have found it for it was under the seat detached, I think he either detached it and lefted it under the seat. Or it fell. It's funny it never did before. Okay, I did hear him say to someone," Okay, I understand, you're in your forties. It's okay." I also had it in the house when I went out and he wasn't up yet. I heard a woman's voice, very young she said my name, something like "Barbara, something something" I couldn't make it out exactly. So I don't know if it was in the car that was taped or at our apt. This is where I had played the tape for almost to the end and it ended with that so I was not sure what day or if it was the car or at our apt. The voice is not anyone I recognized. Where I had thought at first. If I could just get this down as far as the tapes maybe label them. I think he is on to me about this so I stopped. A woman I saw last Saturday at his club, I kept noticed her walking down the staircase entering the club by herself, which I took noticed to for most of the people there was with someone as in couples.
Then when we sat down at the table she appeared again, then when we sat out in front to have a drink after the dinner, she appeared again, always alone. It just made me feel uncomfortable, as in something wasn't right about her.
Like she almost wanted me to know it was her. I don't know but it was weird. I sense now that this would be the type of woman that would knowingly do something like this as sport....she was seedy looking and had very fat legs with a real short mini skirt on, which I thought was not too classy on her anyway. Her hair is the spiral small curl long just like the daughter's of a member there. I figure their hairs were the same. That maybe they were friends now that I think about it...now that is underhanded if this is fact. It's funny now I think about it....he's so mean spirited and that would explain the attitude toward me. And then maybe I'm wrong, however usually I feel things as in a gut reaction and this one is kicking in real strong......I hope I am wrong. I know most likely I am not.....I need to do something else for I have her in mind now, and if she is this member's daughter's friend who is 23 or so, then I know I will have to not ask him this would make him fly off the handle for sure. He has a very short fuse!!!!!!!

Okay RedHat,
I just saw your post!
The compartment? I'll have to reread your post.
I had gone to the fabric store to get buttons of course, and just had to buy a package of heavy duty velcro. Which I used already two packages.
This last one doesn't stick anymore, for sticking it in my pocketbook and it lost the stickiness due to whatever use over time. I do feel this is happening. I did open my big mouth and repeated the first "it's okay you're in your forties." in his presense one night when he was giving me the silent treatment as if I was a naughty girl. I would think now this is really getting to him.
Just a small smile from me at this moment....
well, I was upset when I said it.....so now I will have to find another way, for I had placed the recorder in my big jacket pocket while I went to the ladies room and when I returned home I noticed it was off, only it wasn't done taping. So I figure he shut it off himself, in other words he had to check my pockets and I did notice when I did return to my seat that the chair was turned away from him, so I figure he knows I was taping him and turned it off and I'm sure he told the rest of the crew there. Of course all there didn't let on that they knew as usual. And also this did happen the week before when I tried to see what he would say when I was in the ladies room to his buddies and the bar maid. Hoping he didn't know I was using the recorder. That time too it had been shut off before the tape ended. At that time I did think he may have found out, for when I did come out of the ladies room the barmaid and him and the other men there were talking up a storm, yet it wasn't on the tape. So it is probably he knows and making him *****y.
Well, at least if it is this woman she isn't afraid to let it be known to me. Maybe this is what they all want to be me gone and all happy....

Redhat said:
Now, if he said that he is going to club, call someone that you know at the club to check it out. If he said that he is going to his mom, call his mom, use nay excuse then ask about him. I do beleive that he has other woman.

They stick together. I don't think they would tell for they feel that if this is what he wants to do then it is not my business. I feel the club are full of people like this. One couple who I did like alot stopped going there. He was the Exaulted Ruler at that time, and things were going on there with him and the friends of my bf.
This man stopped attending the functions that normally he should have, all because of the treatment he was getting and his wife also stopped attending the nights normally they would have all because of these types of people. It's 3 guys that really run the place and they are all single minded. Which means the sign in the office that was have up and hanging in just the right place so I would notice, the sign," The cows will come and the cows will go." picture and all. Who ever placed it there, well, you get the picture, it was left for a little while and I complained that his club is suppose to stand for something.
They also have cameras up for the front entrance and the side entrance to show who is there at any given moment...........okay......I'll have to think of something else, or figure out a new way to hide the vor .....what I need to do is, mark these tapes somehow to let me know what date and if it is the car or what....I have been using them over and over.....going back from car to house as behind his love seat recliner......hmmm, I picked it out so we would sit together.....yet it is full of papers, crossword puzzles, glasses, kleenex boxes, more paper......there's a story with all this........long let me know some fresh ideas........what will I do? I haven't decided for sure, I know I have been LBing all over the place.....just gets me alittle angry.......if you knew the story then you'd understand.......thanx RH

<small>[ February 25, 2003, 11:42 PM: Message edited by: BarbT ]</small>

Redhat you said:

Print out LBQ and ENQ then fill it up as if he would.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Do you mean fill in what he would say, or me to fill in the blanks of how I feel?

LBQ is list of no no ... avoid at all cost.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Okay, I think this is a battle for me to conquer. I am always angry at him or at least I try to be nice small talk, he said I talk tooo much....I do.......I want him to connect to me, and I want him to relate to me as a man to a woman. If he has a girlfriend then he is going to be a COLD FISH.......and act like a lion in a cage when he is with me.....this makes me angry!!!

ENQ is list of bottomless pits ... you need to fill it up as much as you can and as much as he allows you to. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Do you mean his needs?
What about mine? Isn't that alittle unfair? This is what stopped me from going to him all the time, this one-sidedness. Like what does he think he is, God's gift to women? He sure acts it though. This reminds me of that song by Helen Reddy......was she ready? Okay I guess I have to try, but it's germy.....yikes, I'd have to at least check her out and find out where she is hanging out besides the club. Like I'll have to find out where she lives, and who she is seeing besides the energizer rabbit.

Then make a list of his complaint about you, as long as you could do it, FIX IT.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I already know a million of them. What about my complaints? Don't they count, don't I count. What is this with these guys, are they made of GOLD or something?!

So my feelings are wrong, he is KING and I am his servent as the others.....wow, no wonder he feels like a spoiled brat.......I will try to do as you say......I will report back here to update. I am wanting to hurt him like he's hurt me, it's been hell, and it's not over yet......I mean his feelings, not bodily harm.....how did I get into this mess, with such a person as he......charming of him......clever for sure....thanx RH

Set yourself a timeframe to try this at your best ... anywhere from 6 months and up. I guarantee that it will have impact before even reaching one month .... He will push you more if you do plan A and he has an A.

LBQ and ENQ for what he would say .... sorry you get disgusted but you know in relationship is not 50%-50%, I fill your need and you have to fill in mine .... IT DOESN'T WORK THIS WAY. You put 100% to fill in his needs and he has to put his 100% to fillin your need .... regardless how much the other put in. For now you put your first .... this is what I meant by sitting down and think about it. If you can't do it then walk away from him !!!!. You find someone else that would treat you better.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>What is this with these guys, are they made of GOLD or something?!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have a choice to walk away now or at least give the last shot. You want him or not ?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I am wanting to hurt him like he's hurt me, it's been hell, and it's not over yet......I mean his feelings, not bodily harm.....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You want a revenge ?. I want revenge on my ex too, ruin this family, finances and my career ... how ?. I fixed all her complaint, I survived ... I would give my best to someone that would appreciate what I could give her ... I find happiness w/o her. I know I would be more successfull in my career, my new relationship than before ... w/o her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . Revenge is not ours, use your anger for the good of your life.

-rh-

<small>[ February 26, 2003, 12:29 AM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>