Well my wife(WS) stopped by on Sunday to pick up her car insurance bill because she was at her parents who live very close to our house. This if the first time I have seen my wife in person in five months. Well she came into the house and looked around a little bit. She asked how my work was doing and so forth and there was some small talk. She asked how I was doing and I looked at her and was thinking how do you think I am doing. I actually said that but in a polite way. Well my emotions were there because I haven't seen her in five months. It was very nice to see her. However the person I was talking to isn’t the same person I once knew. She has changed in a lot of ways and she even tells me she has changed.
I did speak up and told her that I thought it was very shady that the only time she would ever say hi to me is when she needed something from me. She told me the reason she has distanced herself from me is because that is the only way she knows how to handle this. She said she doesn’t talk to me because she doesn’t want to give me any hope. She told me that she is content with her decision and she is never coming back to the relationship. We did talk about some relationship talk, I just had to say a few things to get them off my chest. She told me once again that she fell out of love with me and that she realized she didn’t want to spend the rest of her life being married. I asked so what you want to spend your life dating around and being single. She didn’t really comment on that question. I asked her if she was seeing someone and she told me no. But the look she gave me I don’t know if I can believe her. I don’t know if it is my mind messing with me but I am thinking she is seeing someone or getting some type of some sort from a guy.
Here is the part that sort of took me by surprise. My wife told me that she is questioning a lot of things in her life. But she was very clear that she isn’t questioning her decision to walk away from the marriage. She said she is questioning if she choose the right degree. She said she is questioning her job. She told me she is trying to figure out in her life what she wants to do. She did say she is unhappy in her life. I did tell her that I got blamed for her unhappiness because I really did. I think one day she will realize it wasn’t me. The funny part is when all this first started my wife wanted to go out and party with her friends when she moved out. She told me she still goes out from time to time but she doesn’t have the money to go out and that everyone that she was going out partying with have all taken a step back and said there has to be more to life than partying. It seemed finally my wife is trying to figure out what she wants in life, but has made it clear to me that she isn’t coming back to me. She told me she feels different about me (fell out of love) and that it could never be what it once was again with me. She told me she is sorry a few times for hurting me because she could see how much I hurt about all of this. Plus I did cry a little and I tried not to but this was hard on me. She told me that she wants me to find someone I deserve and for me to be happy. My wife doesn’t remember me has being a great person, good looking, compassionate, etc. She said she will always remember me for someone who could fix anything. As in being handy.
I have a few questions if someone can help me out. Do you think my wife has moved on and is dating other people? Why does my wife keep telling me over and over she is never ever coming back? My wife told me we can’t be friends and she needs to distance herself from me. Is this to help her feel less guilt? What do I do? Do I give up hope when I heard her tell me she will never come back to me about five times during our conversation yesterday? Do I not talk to my wife any more? It is sad that I still have hope it might not be much but I still have it and I think she can see that. But since she can still see I have feelings and I still hurt almost a year later I think she is going to run away even farther this time.
Does anyone have any advice? This conversation did bother me in a lot of ways. I guess I am tired of being told she is never coming back. Why does she say this? Is it the truth?
help………

IMHO, she is saying it to convince herself. I would let her know that while you heard her words, she did not do a good job of convincing you of it. I did this with my H. In our case, the OP was prodding him and many of his words and actions were foreign to me. What they were was words given from the OP to the WS to me. YUCK. It was like the OP was talking to me via the WS. The WS became like the dummy and the OP like the ventriloquist. YUCK!!!! Reminded me of the serpent and the Devil in the Bible account where the Serpent talked to Eve. Double YUCK! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

However, that is what she is saying and if you ready to act on it because you can't hold on anymore, then check out your D options. I would at least check it out. She will find out and all that babble will need to be proved that it is what she really wants.

She should want to D you if she is so convinced. The fact that she did not persue D conversations with you may give you some hope. However, I don't want raise false hopes in you, so it may be better to prepare for the worst. Just prepare, it will help later.

take care,
L.

Orchid...

" The fact that she did not persue D conversations with you may give you some hope."

Well it did come up when she said she still feels the same about getting a divorce. I feel as if I could hold on with this hope the rest of my life because I remember what it was like with my wife and how great it was. That is what keeps the hope alive inside of me. But it is hard to hold on to hope when she was sitting in front of me looking at my tearing eyes and she says I am never coming back to the relationship. Talk about throwing salt in ones wounds. I have no clue right now if there is another man influencing her but this is what she told me about never coming back. It is kind of hard to see and hear those words come out of her mouth. I think at this point she hasn't filed because she has no money for a lawyer as well as she knows I am still hurting very bad. I kept hearing over and over from her that with time I will learn to move on. The one big part that bothers me a lot is the fact that I think maybe there is a small chance in her that she would come back but she thinks it can never be back to what it was and that is a large reason why she is saying she will never come back.

cg:

"Do you think my wife has moved on and is dating other people?"

Personally, I don't think she's dating. But it doesn't matter. That she came by when she didn't need to (really) and told you all this stuff makes it pretty clear to me that she has NOT "moved on." Mentally, she's not able to. Her "processor is all f***ed up!" (from "12 Monkeys")

"Why does my wife keep telling me over and over she is never ever coming back?"

Orchid's right. She's trying to convince HERSELF of this. She really has no clue what she wants.

"My wife told me we can?t be friends and she needs to distance herself from me. Is this to help her feel less guilt?"

Yes.

" What do I do? Do I give up hope when I heard her tell me she will never come back to me about five times during our conversation yesterday?"

Change your focus. Stop mulling over whether there's reason for hope or not. And, when you think about it, there will ALWAYS be reason for HOPE for a better YOU. Let her worry about whether she has hope for a better future or not.

"Do I not talk to my wife any more?"

Don't be pushy, but I would definitely talk to her if she comes to you, even if it's to have one of these "guilt absolution" conversations.

"It is sad that I still have hope it might not be much but I still have it and I think she can see that"

Rephrase that. It is frustrating that you have hope, but it isn't sad. Hope is a good thing. But don't confuse hope with pining.

"But since she can still see I have feelings and I still hurt almost a year later I think she is going to run away even farther this time."

Maybe. But my bet is that she's finding that this fantasy world she went running to isn't what it cracked up to be. For example, can ANY RATIONAL ADULT imagine a "partying" life going on happily for decades? How empty can you get!? Anyway, she's finding it's not the exciting, rewarding existence that she thought life with you was the opposite of. She's finding out that life is more complicated than that. Doesn't mean she'll come back to you, and even if she eventually does, you're probably in for a lot more such conversations, perhaps months apart, before any real progress is evident. Remember not to get your hopes up for a reconciliation. If you simply rejoice in her own personal growth, while continuing yours, you won't be disappointed.

"Does anyone have any advice?"

Yeah. never take advice! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Sorry, coudln't resist!

"This conversation did bother me in a lot of ways. I guess I am tired of being told she is never coming back. Why does she say this? Is it the truth?"

Read the above. It might be the truth. It might not. I don't think the "why" has anything to do with this, but everything to do with her own confusion.

Be patient, keep working on you, and stay the course.

-Qfwfq

C_G-

I think you'd be wise to take Orchids advice and prepare for the possibility of D. One piece of advice that I'd offer is to get involved with groups of people that are going through the same thing if you haven't already. I've found that it can be extremely helpful to talk with others in a group setting on a regular basis. Stick with the Plans advocated on this site as best you can though. If you don't want the D and still have feelings for her, make her do the dirty work. Good luck with all of this, I know how discouraging things can seem sometimes. I was in a similar situation a few months ago C_G and I'm here to tell you that things will get better. We're pulling for you.

From your description of events, I dont think she really believed what she was saying. rather like the people who keep saying "yes, sure I'm fine, never been better" to convince themselves.
Having said that, that doesnt mean that she will come back automatically. One possible outcome is that she will continue to search, blame, be unhappy.... all you can do is move on - with her or without her.
N

CG,

When I got that babble from my WS, it hurt. Then I summoned up the strength and a few days later I asked him for a favor. Simple request as calmly as I could and totally out of the blue.

BS: Can you please do me a favor?

WS: What!?!? (with anger in his face)

BS: (starting to tear up but holding my compsure)
Please understand that if I could get someone
else to do this, I would. I tried but it
seems you are the only one that can do
this.... (trailed off)

WS: What? S3x?

BS: No. I can get anyone else to do that!
(Believe it or not this sarcasim gave me
strength).

WS: What? (notice that he kept having to ask)

BS: (deep sigh)....since you want to have the D,
I need you to please go and(another sigh)
find my real H. So I can tell him I miss
him and love him, then give him a hug and
a kiss goodbye. (very dramatic because by
this time I was in tears and by the end of
this so was he).

WS: I wish I could find him too. I miss him
too. (then he started tearing up, calmly
said goodbye and left).

Now this caused a turning point for me. For I was able to disfuse his anger. I also sent him on a mission where we both admitted that the man standing infront of me was not my real H. Each time from that point on, whenver he looked in the mirror, the reminder of the missing man would stare him straight in the face. Though we never discussed his reaction in detail, I feel this was something that he was able to carry with him.

See the OW and WS try to paint a new picture over a painted canvas. Call it a new valuable painting when in essence they are ruining the valuable painting already on the canvas of life and not adding to the value in any way but instead destroying it. That is what I wanted my H to see. If he like the new ugly pic, that would be his choice but the real family, my real H already existed on our family's canvas.

If your W has talked the D, then holding it up may not serve a real useful purpose (other than anger her - IMHO). Of course each situation varies so you would be the best to decide. What I would recommend is that you check out your options. Don't do her dirty work for her. If she wants the D, tell her to go get it. I even called my WS up one morning when I reached a turning point where I felt strong enough for him to pursue the D and told him, ok I'd ready now you go get the D. That shocked him....

In our case, he was home 1 month later. But there were false recoveries also, so all it not coming up roses at all times. HOpe this makes sense.

take care,
L.

CG,

When I got that babble from my WS, it hurt. Then I summoned up the strength and a few days later I asked him for a favor. Simple request as calmly as I could and totally out of the blue.

BS: Can you please do me a favor?

WS: What!?!? (with anger in his face)

BS: (starting to tear up but holding my compsure)
Please understand that if I could get someone
else to do this, I would. I tried but it
seems you are the only one that can do
this.... (trailed off)

WS: What? S3x?

BS: No. I can get anyone else to do that!
(Believe it or not this sarcasim gave me
strength).

WS: What? (notice that he kept having to ask)

BS: (deep sigh)....since you want to have the D,
I need you to please go and(another sigh)
find my real H. So I can tell him I miss
him and love him, then give him a hug and
a kiss goodbye. (very dramatic because by
this time I was in tears and by the end of
this so was he).

WS: I wish I could find him too. I miss him
too. (then he started tearing up, calmly
said goodbye and left).

Now this caused a turning point for me. For I was able to disfuse his anger. I also sent him on a mission where we both admitted that the man standing infront of me was not my real H. Each time from that point on, whenver he looked in the mirror, the reminder of the missing man would stare him straight in the face. Though we never discussed his reaction in detail, I feel this was something that he was able to carry with him.

See the OW and WS try to paint a new picture over a painted canvas. Call it a new valuable painting when in essence they are ruining the valuable painting already on the canvas of life and not adding to the value in any way but instead destroying it. That is what I wanted my H to see. If he like the new ugly pic, that would be his choice but the real family, my real H already existed on our family's canvas.

If your W has talked the D, then holding it up may not serve a real useful purpose (other than anger her - IMHO). Of course each situation varies so you would be the best to decide. What I would recommend is that you check out your options. Don't do her dirty work for her. If she wants the D, tell her to go get it. I even called my WS up one morning when I reached a turning point where I felt strong enough for him to pursue the D and told him, ok I'd ready now you go get the D. That shocked him....

In our case, he was home 1 month later. But there were false recoveries also, so it was not coming up roses at all times. HOpe this makes sense.

take care,
L.

Thanks for the replies and the advice. I feel I had a set back with our conversation and it did hurt. I know nobody can predict the future but I do appreciate the advice that has been given. I am trying every day to be able to hold my head higher and higher. Somedays that slips and I loose a bit but I am trying. I have a huge piece of me that is just missing (my wife) and I am trying to fill that in as best as I can. Fill that in by doing things and not by trying to let another woman replace my wife. I don't want that and I know I am volunerable in that department. I am trying to workout more and trying to do things I have never done. It is hard getting out of bed in the morning thinking I have to face another day. I just hope like everyone says that my wife realizes what she is doing before it is all too late for her or myself.....

CG, it is very obvious, even from her own admisions, that she is re-evaluating alot of things in her life. She is still very confused, she is not capable of making a decision regarding the marriage, I think she knows that she has hurt you and she doesn't want to hurt you anymore therefore she has no choice but to say that she is never coming back. In reality, I don't believe that decision has really been made yet, she just is not capable of making it at this point in time, therefore she tells you that she is not coming back and it also serves to try to justify to herself and create some stability in her life.
I think it is easier for her to tell herself that then face reality.

My FWS told me the exact same thing when we were at this point, she used to say that she has thought alot about it and had reached her decision that she is never coming back and was sorry for hurting me. I had to let go and give her the space and time to figure her own life out first, once she did that she was capable of making the decision of coming back to the marriage. While we cannot predicit what future decision your WS will make, I am fairly certain that she is not capable of making this decision today and there is no guarentee that she will be capable of making it anytime in the near future. Hopefully she is doing everything she can to get her issues resolved. When I reached to point of letting go ( no giving up) the only support I gave my FWS was in terms of giving her self help books, I gave no other support - emotional, financial, etc, I tried to let her hit rock bottom and supply the material to help her find her way out if she chose to. Hang in there.
Dave