I came to this board about 3ish years ago, when I discovered my H's first affair. So, strictly speaking, I am not new. This past fall, he revealed that he had another affair, and now....I am not doing so well...struggling to try to put our lives back together again...feeling like it's not going to work this time.

We married about 9.5 years ago, we had been together for 4 years before that. We have 3 kids, 7, 5 and 2 (boys!). The kids were mostly planned, in the general sense, but their actual arrival was not timed exactly "right" in the sense that I was finishing professional training still, and H was in the throes of running a business in the high-tech hey-days. They were stressful times, to day the least. Both of us trying hard to reach our goals, and at the same time, adjusting to family life. H handled the pressure less well that I could have ever imagined. His business started to falter, my career was going in fits and starts due to maternity time-off, and he found the demands of parenthood overwhelming. I cannot emphasize enough that last point. He really really found it hard to be responsible for another being (as well as me), he still focuses hugely on the "burden" that a family places on him. (sad face here if I knew how)

He also is a deeply insecure person, which in a way i think has propelled him to do great things business-wise...it's like he MUST succeed, or he's nothing! On the other hand, he is VERY vulnerable to the attention/flattery of other women...so I have learned.

The first affair was during a very hard time in our lives, what with work, baby and another on the way, and financial pressures. He basically resented me hugely, and got involved with an employee. I discovered it and confronted him, after it was over, supposedly, and right away he wanted to re-commit, do everything he could, swore he loved me and our family and wanted to do all he could to fix things.

I was in a state, so we split for awhile, and 6ish months later, drifted back together...made various attempts to repair our relationship, fix the disfuntional ways we had between us, deal openly with eachother, restore trust...all the great stuff that this site and the books tell you you to do.

Now that I think about it, and when I read about others on this site, I think it may have been a "false" recovery. I was angry, and kept the "upper hand" in an unfair way. I never really really let go of all that and looked at my behaviours that may have caused him some unhappiness. I felt righteous and did not do enough to deal with the issues that may have lead to his A.

Then BOOM, I got preg again. H was floored and so was I. I actually have a fertility prob...it's not like I don't know where babies come from...that's a long explanation.

Anyways, we decided to carry on. I was terrified, since the kids add a huge stress to H's psyche, but for me and us, there was really no other option than to accept another sweet baby.

But see what I mean by an incomplete recovery? before we could get really far into making changes, bcs of my issues/anger etc, there was a big distraction: baby.

H started a new business, that really never went anywhere. That situation just KILLS him. He takes all of his self-esteem from his business success, and I mean ALL. So, of course, the stage was set again for A#2. I could not have been more surprised and shocked. Yes he was acting nasty for awhile and even saying he was not sure he wanted to be with me anymore.(sad face)..but I still did not clue in. (talk about willful blindness)

SO, finally, when pressed by me, and I was only really asking him if there was someone else so that we could quickly rule it out and discuss the real problem, he tells me...

Oh how awful. Another employee, this one young. ouch ouch ouch Unspeakable pain, words cannot describe. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

As if that were not enough, he wants out, he doesn't love me, never really did, oh the whole ball of wax. Oh and it's not even that he wants to be with the OW, it's just that he's not happy, wants to start life on his own...

Well, in shock and panic mode, but mind still working, I plan A my brains out...and it WORKS...weeks pass, he doesn't leave "at the end of the month" as threatened and starts to say: I will give it another try. Huge relief!!!! Back from the brink!

Thing is: this time, there are no I love you's no flowers, no chocolates, no promises, no nothing. His effort is very half-hearted, I think. He says it's bcs he IS on the fence, but hopes with time we can rebuild something.

Problem, our life is tough. Two very busy parents, 3 very busy boys, and endless responsibilities etc. I know you all understand this stuff. He feels just SO weighed down by all this, it's beyond words. He grew up with no real family, and both parents were never together and were quite poor parents in alot of ways. My family :opposite, great parents, siblings...all good.

He cannot handle it! he sees the next 10 years as one giant slog, hellish back breaking torture, with no real relief at all for years. It's awful to hear him talk, and honestly it's making me nuts. He blames me for all his misery...even though he did want a family. He blames me simply bcs I am, in a simplistic way "there".

Now that the crisis has passed, he's staying home for now, I am sinking fast into misery. I tried meds, but there were nasty side effects. I try so hard to stay hopefull, but then the feelings of being unloved rejected humiliated wash over me. I also feel very very hopeless.

I am working hard on myself...going after everything I want with respect to sports, friends, work and being a mom. Often I feel I am going through the motions, but what else can I do?

I/we have also made alot of really good changes in our relationship, in the ways we communicate, in meeting EN. It's like nothing is enough to overcome his dissatisfaction/unhappiness with his basic life; the demands of life, and his resentment over it all.

I am geeting really good at not LB, and at controlling my urges to discuss the A or our relationship. He has NC with the recent OW, I believe that. But has recently started a new job and I am beside myself with anxiety. Trying not to bring it up and LB all over the place...but I am also desperate for some kind of reassurance, that he cannot give. He says he will not do it again, but admits that he cannot guarantee it, since clearly, he could not keep that promise last time. He says fidelity will flow from the happiness he will feel in our relationship. Fine, but the thing is: what comes first? I know that as soon as he became attracted to OW he started to see me/family with really negative eyes, and then, well, he's off to races!

I know he's not confident of himself and not sure if it will work out with us. I am finding it nearly impossible to stay sane, have hope, and be positive under these circumstances. I feel like I am dropping the ball as a mom with all this going on, and I hate that. I am really not sure what the hell I am doing at all. The energy I have put into all this is astronomical. But there is no way out of this mess.

We did C many times in the past, and IC too. He will not go that route again, and I don't think it will help for him anymore either. As for me, spent 2 yrs in IC, and frankly I am sick of it. SO so tired of being the BS who needs the weekly crying session. The shrink was great but she kept, I feel, pushing me to consider life without him. WHat I really want is a life with him. I want to figure out how to put my life together and be happy with H. I love him, depite all this crap. We are compatible, enjoy eachother's company, have many similar interests, and share a sense of humor. We always enjoy our time together without the kids, and have a great physical relationship.

It's hard to "sum up" all these issues isn't it? I feel I have hardly touched the surface.

Right now I am feeling so sad and desperate. I cannot talk to many people bcs "this time" I hardly told anyone. The reaction was so great to H's last affair from all our friends and family, that dealing with that was a burden, and I honestly would not know what to say to everyone this time when they would ask: what are going to do? I just want this to be "our problem" this time, and I need to decide what to do without all the reactions of family and friends.

I am always impressed by the wonderful people on this site, and feel a bit selfish about beeing so needy. I am really bad at asking for help. But I am asking for it now. Thanks.

Hang in there! I'm fairly new, but help and advice are on the way...Feel for you, recognize false discovery in my situation too, H feels backed into a corner too(financially, etc.)You came to the right place though...we're here for you.

thanks learnin. I appreciate the reply. I don't know your story...where can I read about it?

Hi ELenor,

Sounds like you and i are in the same canoe <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
Do you have a mouse with the center scroll thing (im a cumputer wiz <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> not) any way if you scroll down in the write box you will see the Graemlins click away many faces to choose from.

Im sorry, I understand the feeling of doing anything to keep it together, I also understand the "I'm the biggest burden feeling" life isn't fair is it. Sounds like you have tons on your plate, and its all cabbage. yuck. I will post more later. I am really not good for advice, I can't make my marrigage work. so not much help there. Hugs to you,
sara

thanks Not Going to do this. Yes I have alot on my plate....but what's to be done about it? start eating I guess! I hate cabbage though. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Gosh I hope I get some more replies...I am beyond deperate. Sorry to hound the MB-ers!!!

Eleanor, I feel so bad for you!

You mentioned that you've both been to IC and MC. What was your H diagnosed with? What was he treated for? What were his issues besides self esteem?

What were your issues? Did you both process each A and learn the messages from them? Sounds like you did to at least a degree.

Are you meeting each others EN's and after the first A did you follow the MB principals?

Did you read SAA or Torn Asunder, did you H?

You mention all the things you are doing, work, friends, sports, kids, etc..what are you doing together. My FWH and I do all our recreational activities together now and it's great.

Have you ever counceled with Steve Harley? We did he was great.

Sounds like you may not have had good therapists in the pasts. IC is working wonders for both of us. My FWH was diagnosed as being Passive/Agressive, poor self awareness and a tendency to go into denial. He has come a long way with my help, MB help and the IC.

I was diagnosed with depression and PTSD and am being treated for that.

We have thoroughly processed the A and now know how it happened and how to prevent it from happening again.

Any specific questions, I'd be happy to take a stab at answering them.

One last thought...you H is probably feeling pretty bad about himself and definitely sounds overwhelmed. Have you asked him what he needs in order to feel better (besides having another A)?

Good Morning E.

Hey, as i said i'm no expert (my marriage is hell in a handbasket, looking at leaving at the end of the school year ect. However. Just some thoughts from your post that made me think last night and i wanted to post to you. Maybe we can help each other figure this one out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

****
He basically resented me hugely,
***
because ??? Your job is better in some way than his??

****
he found the demands of parenthood overwhelming. I cannot emphasize enough that last point. He really really found it hard to be responsible for another being (as well as me), he still focuses hugely on the "burden" that a family places on him. (sad face here if I knew how)
******

My husband is only as responsible as i require. which isn't darn near enough. I do everything, and i mean everything. This is the kicker, it is my main emotional need, (to be taken care of) so when its not met, i do it myself, because i can't live like that. anyway. I think he will never be the responsible person i need, funny though, that is why i married him, i thought he would take care of me. He started out really well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> , I think he is so insecure that he will never be able to deal with me being sucessful, or independant, that is why his affair started, she needed him, and that has been his pattern every since. He is always helping financially, emotionaly, physically (not necissarily sexually) everyone but me.

**************************************************
I am working hard on myself...going after everything I want with respect to sports, friends, work and being a mom. Often I feel I am going through the motions, but what else can I do?

I/we have also made alot of really good changes in our relationship, in the ways we communicate, in meeting EN. It's like nothing is enough to overcome his dissatisfaction/unhappiness with his basic life; the demands of life, and his resentment over it all.

I am geeting really good at not LB, and at controlling my urges to discuss the A or our relationship. He has NC with the recent OW, I believe that. But has recently started a new job and I am beside myself with anxiety. Trying not to bring it up and LB all over the place...but I am also desperate for some kind of reassurance, that he cannot give. He says he will not do it again, but admits that he cannot guarantee it, since clearly, he could not keep that promise

************************************************

I'm getting good to, i'm so good he is eating his cake with chocolate frosting, and brownie fudge swirl ice cream served in a silver dish with a naked woman feeding him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I feel like no matter what i do, it is not good enough, and never will be enough to make up for his inner unhappiness, I guess, if we aren't happy with ourselves, no one can make us happy.

arn't i awful
My H is still in contact with first ow, he says there hasn't been woman #2, or 3, i think i know better, but haven't been able to prove it.

OK, bottom line,
I feel like enough is enough, but i can't for some reason tell him to get out. Conflict avoider and all,

You want to work it out and don't know where you are because he can't say it won't happen again. I'm sorry sis, to tell you this, but it happened once, shame on him, if you let it happen over and over shame on you. What if he brings you a nasty preseent home, who will take care of your children then. I would tell you to go to a counselor, but seing as i have been to three now, and they all want to ask questions about my childhood, i guess i quit them to.

WANT TO BE ON DR. PHIL???

Sorry this is so long, if you can use any of it, great, if not , call it the rant of PMS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sara

<small>[ February 05, 2005, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

Hi
to: notgoing to do this
thanks for your reply. Yes it's very hard. My job is good, but no he does feel threatened by it. he makes more $$$ and always has.
Sucess is so imporatant to him and he's competitive with himself...he has, in his head, an idea of what sucess is...it's a high standard I tell ya.

Hanora:
Thanks for your good comments. We do get out together and do fun things without kids, and during those times we do not focus on relationship issues. It's actually amazing how much fun we can have, but still be having such a rough time. It's like nothing carries over for him.
We do have sitters, and opportunities to go out, and do. But like I said: it never seems like enough. I often think, if we can just make it through these early kid years....we'll be ok. But that will be tough.
Lately i do think I am depressed. I will plan to do something about it. I hate feeling flat with meds though. But at this point..something has to give.
Him: is not introspective, did not get much out of therapy, and it's a waste on him at this point. Forget the meds with him: no way will he ever go there. It's a shame really.
After your post I called our best friends, who have a solid marriage, and booked dinner out for all of us on Sat night....you are right that it does help for H to constantly identify with solid men and families.
Thanks so much for the lift.

Not Going:
I forgot to say: thanks for the point about "doing too much". It's true that I do too much, maybe not $$-wise, but in all other ways. He has often complained that he did not feel part of the family and household. Well, I have really moved over and become alot less hands on in alot of ways. It helps. It make H more "important " in the house, with the kids etc...
thanks for reminding me of that.

bump

Hi Eleanor

I'm not sure if I can help you too much - I don't feel too good at giving advice.

Having said that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> one thing I would point out is that your H may still be in withdrawal. You believe that he has NC with OW2, but are you sure? Did he write a letter, or do you just know? I know in my case, NC with OM was a given straight off, and there was no need for NC letter.
But, as I say, your H may still be in withdrawal, which is why he is fence sitting. For me, it was a good 3/4 months of just being "here" before I could actively participate in trying to put things right in our M. Be grateful that he is at least "there", and has not gone off.

You must make time to look after yourself - what do you do solely for you? I'm sure this is difficult to have "Eleanor" time, given work and 3 children, but it is vital for your well being. Do you like to exercise, get your nails done, whatever it is, do it and try and do it regularly!

Hang in there and wishing you well from London.

Lisa

Hi Lisa,

Thanks for your response, and you are right to wonder if there really is no contact with the H and OW...when he is fence sitting...it's a plausible explanation. He says "no" when I ask, and I know that he is getting irritated with my repeated asking...so I have stopped for the moment.

What I do for myself: I run! I run like crazy! the worse life gets, the more I run! so natch, of course I ran a marathon in late summer (my first), and loved it.

Right now, though, mother nature has other plans for us here in Canada...big storm, March must be coming in like a lion.

I think I have to be patient with H, and keep plan A-ing, even though I am finding it REALLY tough to hang in there. Part of me just wants to throw in the towel, and start using my energies towards things that actually make my life richer, and better, rather than sad and draining.

Hi Eleanor,

I just wanted to acknowledge the difficulty of your situation. I can see me being in your situation in 3 years time and would so like to avoid it. It does sound as if your H is in withdrawal and I think you need to tread water and Plan A for a good few weeks, maybe a month, before you reassess things.

It is hard trying to juggle things isn't it,with young children, a career, a house to run... Somehow I always resent my H a bit-he gets to give 100% at work and then comes home and everything is done. I get to give 100% at work too but I work halftime-then I still have to run the house, manage the children, finances etc. Yes I outsource what I can but I still have to manage it...None of that would bother me if I got recognition from my H. That is why you need to look after yourself. But not exclude him.

I cannot give a sensible balanced view today as I am very upset but I wanted to encourage you to hang in there...your H is still there and has agreed to stop the A and that is a beginning.

Regards,
Deluded

Hi Eleanor,
Sounds like you have a lot on your shoulders, but you also sound like you can manage a lot as well. Have you ever read any of Ellen Kreidman's stuff? If you truly want your husband to stay, then you may want to read Kreidman's book Light His Fire. Some of the suggestions sound stupid, but I have found many men react well to "stupid."
Best wishes. P-anne

Hi, Eleanor,

As promised, I posted this in my posts and here. Wish you a not too bad weekend…

It’s OK, you do not absolutely have to help me. The fact to write things down helped me to understand some points. And anyway I have little time left too!

By the way, I have read your posts. Well not entirely because I have to read with a dictionary… but I’m on it. My first impression is that he is afraid no to fulfill your needs, as he is afraid to mess all that he does… I think. I think I have some points in common with your H and that is the way I could feel in is situation. What is troubling me is that he doesn’t want to work on himself. That is letting me… perplexed. Anyway, I have to read a little more to fully understand the problem.

I will post you as soon as possible, but I have to leave for the weekend. But I will!

And do not worry about me, do not put pressure on you for me. You have enough hard time like this. Try relax, sleep and eat well. I think I know how you feel alone, this is a really hard feeling to live with. At least, try do thing for you : bath, listen to your favorite TV show, buy you a little surprise… Try to think to YOU a bit. Whatever becoming, you will always be with you at the end.

See you next Monday