I am/was the WW and the BS's on this forum scare me. I've been mostly lurking here for 9 months. I want to post, I need to post but I do not feel this is the environment for me. I have learned a lot lurking here and would like to participate but getting flamed is not something that I can take.

I have feelings about the OM that I do not think will be popular here. I am looking for a forum where I can feel as safe as the BS's feel here at marriagebuilder and the OM/OW feel at gloryb. Although I've searched for a while I have yet to find such a forum.

Does anyone here know of a forum which has values similar to marriagebuilder but where the focus is WS based. If yes, I would greatly appreciate your posting of the address here.

Thank you all, please do not take offense, I just don't feel safe here at marriagebuilders.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by wanting:
<strong>I am/was the WW and the BS's on this forum scare me. I've been mostly lurking here for 9 months. I want to post, I need to post but I do not feel this is the environment for me. I have learned a lot lurking here and would like to participate but getting flamed is not something that I can take.

I have feelings about the OM that I do not think will be popular here. I am looking for a forum where I can feel as safe as the BS's feel here at marriagebuilder and the OM/OW feel at gloryb. Although I've searched for a while I have yet to find such a forum.

Does anyone here know of a forum which has values similar to marriagebuilder but where the focus is WS based. If yes, I would greatly appreciate your posting of the address here.

Thank you all, please do not take offense, I just don't feel safe here at marriagebuilders.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wanting,
What do you need to feel safe about? Getting flamed is not the objective here at MB but when someone is attempting to promote a 'non-marital' idea, it is pretty safe to say that it will not be welcomed with open arms.

There are many a WS that post here. Most of them are here because they finally see that an A is not the best thing for anyone.

How do you feel about the A?

If you do not feel safe here at MB, how do you feel at glory.b and why?

I have been to both forums. Must say if you want a dose of reality, stick it out here. We have nothing to lose by being honest and forthright.

However if you want to keep up with a fantasy, go to where that idea is promoted. GloryB is such a place.

Yes, the WS does not fit well into any society. The question is how long do you want to be in such a state?

The choice is yours. Not a flame but just a piece of reality.

Your honesty is appreciated. If you are really looking for proper support for you as a person and with the M values in mind, please continue to post here.

L.

<small>[ March 01, 2003, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

I totally understand what you're saying. I'm kind of searching for the right place also. For what it's worth, I'm not about to judge you. If you've gotten some negative or harsh feedback from someone, my guess is it might have been out of fear or inablity to relate.
Some background on me. Married to my high school sweetheart. I'm a model, working in fashion advertising, so I get to travel and get to meet others who share my interests. My husband is a corporate attorney. He's very kind and good looking and loving. Our interests and friends are completely different. I was very attracted to someone I was working with on a regular basis. The flirting and walks, talks, etc. lasted a very long time. We came close to kissing many times. When he finally did kiss me, it was a wake up call. I was so turned on and so ready to take it to the next step. I made the decision to see a counselor who advised me to quit the job I was working on with the other guy and not tell my husband. I did as she advised, but still feel like I had one hell of an affair! Other than the counselor, I've never talked with anyone about it - what a secret to keep! It drives me nuts sometimes. Anyway, I hope you find someplace where you feel safe and can get some satisfaction. Feel free to email me if you'd like. Take care.

Orchid,

Thank you for your response.

What do you need to feel safe about? Getting flamed is not the objective here at MB but when someone is attempting to promote a 'non-marital' idea, it is pretty safe to say that it will not be welcomed with open arms.

I don't think that the BS's here flame WS's just because they have nothing to do. Quite to the contrary, I think BS's flame others because they are still very, very hurt.

There are many a WS that post here. Most of them are here because they finally see that an A is not the best thing for anyone.

I recognize all the WS's that post here. They obviously are made of sterner stuff than me.

How do you feel about the A?

I know that my A was a mistake (I also realize that calling it a mistake can raise eyebrows here. Is there a better word to use?) If there was a way to go back in time, I would and the A would not happen.

If you do not feel safe here at MB, how do you feel at glory.b and why?

Actually, I see the same thing at gloryb that I see here at MB. Both forums are filled with hurt sad people. Unfortunately a lot of the folks at gloryb like to blame the BS. Unfortunately a lot of the folks here at MB want to blame the OM/OW. Seems to me it would be better if both groups were to look at the real picture and put the blame on the WS instead. Common enemy if you know what i mean.

I have been to both forums. Must say if you want a dose of reality, stick it out here. We have nothing to lose by being honest and forthright.

I see reality on both forums.

However if you want to keep up with a fantasy, go to where that idea is promoted. GloryB is such a place.

Yes, the WS does not fit well into any society. The question is how long do you want to be in such a state?

The choice is yours. Not a flame but just a piece of reality.

I'm not trying to live a fantasy. I had a nine month, long distance EA (communication via phone and e-mail) with one PA episode. I know this sounds crazy but I did not know what and EA was. My H was aware of my EA but did not think anything of it because it was not physical. The OM was meeting my EN. More crazy but I didn't know a lot about EN either. I had a feeling that my H should be more upset about my relationship with the OM but he wasn't. The one time PA was more than I could deal with. I did not want to have sex. I did want to continue to have my need for affection and conversation met. At the time I figured the only way I was going to get what I needed was to give the OM what he need. Poor thinking on my part. Once the PA occurred I forced my H's hand so to speak. I made phone calls to the OM in the middle of the night with my H within earshot. He called me on it and I of course tried to evade the truth. H wanted and demanded no contact. I knew he was right to want NC and honestly thought he could have it right away. I had no idea just how hard the OM was going to be to give up. I'm sorry to say it took me two months before no contact was real. In a few days it will be one year since I've had contact with the OM. So no, I am not living in la la land.

Your honesty is appreciated. If you are really looking for proper support for you as a person and with the M values in mind, please continue to post here.

Unfortunately, I don't think this is the place for me. I do not believe in the fog concept that rules here. The way I see it (I'm 40+ years) I was not in a fog. The feeling I had/have for the OM were/are real. I know, not a popular notion here.

Actually I don't think the BS's here and the OM/OW on gloryb know what you have. A place where you can go, freely speak your mind and know many other will be there to empathize with you. Maybe WS's don't deserve a place of our own.

Once again, thanks for your time. I mean no disrespect.

<small>[ March 01, 2003, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: wanting ]</small>

sorry, double post

<small>[ March 01, 2003, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: wanting ]</small>

Wanting,

I replied to you over at EN as well, don't know if you saw that yet.

I want to make a quick comment on your fog. I am a BS, my wife is currently having an affair with an OM who is a co-worker. She has been seeing him for 4 months. And I see no sign of it letting up. So I want you to know that I am another of those who believes that there does not always have to be a "fog". I truly believe right now that my W is in a serious relationship and that her feelings are real. I do not feel that there is some cloud around her that is going to lift and make her realize that she was wrong and wants to come home.

My belief is more that my W had an affair because her needs weren't being met here, and she went to where they WERE being met. Plain and simple. Not because of a "fog", but because that's what she needed to do to be happy. What felt right to her. I do believe that, as long as the OM continues to meet her needs, it will be hard to get her to come home and work on our M. She may NEVER want to. All I can do is be as loving and as kind to her as I can, when I get that chance. However, I do feel that being with an OM and having her needs met is not the same thing is "fog". I believe she loves the OM, loves being with him, definitely more than being with me, and may always feel that way.

So, chalk me up as one person who doesn't think that every affair has to be "fog". There are times when the feelings are genuine and that's that. My .02 anyway.

ALS

ALostSoul,

So, chalk me up as one person who doesn't think that every affair has to be "fog". There are times when the feelings are genuine and that's that. My .02 anyway.

You're a rare bird here at MB. I wish this was the general consensus. There's something about all the fog talk that really bothers me.

Thanks for both of your responses.

wanting,

Perhaps if you understood why it is so easy to blame the fog you might be more open to posting and sharing your own experiences here at MB?

The truth is really quite simple. The reason we BS wrap ourselves around the concept of the fog
is because it is less painful than the possible truth. For if we truthfully believe that our WS is/was in love with the OP....well that gives us much deeper pain to overcome. Not to mention the gloom feelings that we just may never be able to compare to the lover.

And if we don't believe we can compare how much harder do you think that would be for us to believe we even have a chance at recovery?

I will not say that you won't get flamed here. You represent the deepest fear for the BS. You still have feelings for the OP and people will struggle with that. But, I believe there are others who will also relate to your situation, and understand completely how you feel.

Stick around and(at least)give us a chance.

jd

<small>[ March 02, 2003, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: jdmac1 ]</small>

Originally posted by wanting:

I don't think that the BS's here flame WS's just because they have nothing to do. Quite to the contrary, I think BS's flame others because they are still very, very hurt.


Orchid: Flaming a WS due to hurt is not a fair act. However, understanding the difference between a flame and a dosage of what could be harsh reality, needs to be properly understood.

Being a conflict avoider is not productive in this forum or in most other aspects of life. In fact the ones who actually take the time to share their thoughts and opinions are often better friends than those who just smile and say sweet things.

Yes, sometimes we get a bit too blunt, but not as often as we should. At least IMHO. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

There are many a WS that post here. Most of them are here because they finally see that an A is not the best thing for anyoneI recognize all the WS's that post here. They obviously are made of sterner stuff than me.

Orchid: No one here is better than another. The WS goes through a lot also. I have been in cotact with several of the WS. Even talked to some of them. One of them (he and his W post here), spoke with me for about 3 hours one day. His W was there for the conversation also.

One constant thing, our need to survive kicks in when necessary and this helps us survive. So you have the ability to do the same.

I know that my A was a mistake (I also realize that calling it a mistake can raise eyebrows here. Is there a better word to use?) If there was a way to go back in time, I would and the A would not happen.


Orchid: Good. That is a positive comment. Did you always feel it was a mistake, even when you were in the height of it all?

Calling the A a mistake will not raise my eyebrow. I have heard that line before and agree! Maybe gloryb might frown <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Interesting point that you now realize you would not want the A to happen.

I see the same thing at gloryb that I see here at MB. Both forums are filled with hurt sad people. Unfortunately a lot of the folks at gloryb like to blame the BS. Unfortunately a lot of the folks here at MB want to blame the OM/OW. Seems to me it would be better if both groups were to look at the real picture and put the blame on the WS instead. Common enemy if you know what i mean.


Orchid: You are correct about both forums filled with hurt people. Here and many other places for a variety of reasons.

I would like to share my opinion as to why the initial reaction is to blame the OP more than the WS.

The BS generally doesn't know the OP as well as the WS. Unbeknown to most BS, the WS goes through a change of character that is usually not revealed. So the BS goes along thinking the WS is really the S (spouse) and when the reaction is different, the BS is often baffled.

Oh..... it gets worse in some cases. The BS is not only baffled but the WS and OP make it their aim to deliberately confuse the BS. Some even go to the limits of trying to make the BS think the BS is crazy (WS in denial, twisted stories, WS rewriting history, etc.). I may later share some actual posts between a WS and OP. Very enlightening in a horrific sordid way.

I'm not trying to live a fantasy.

Orchid: Good. It is hard isn't it? I am not being sarcastic. I have 'learned' that this is difficult for the WS.

Now this is something most BS don't understand. I learned that here @ MB. I also learned it in a twisted way at gloryB....then again @ GloryB, much is twisted.

II had a nine month, long distance EA (communication via phone and e-mail) with one PA episode. I know this sounds crazy but I did not know what and EA was. ...... I had a feeling that my H should be more upset about my relationship with the OM but he wasn't. The one time PA was more than I could deal with. I [b]did not want to have sex. I did want to continue to have my need for affection and conversation met. At the time I figured the only way I was going to get what I needed was to give the OM what he need. Poor thinking on my part. Once the PA occurred I forced my H's hand so to speak. I made phone calls to the OM in the middle of the night with my H within earshot. He called me on it and I of course tried to evade the truth. H wanted and demanded no contact. I knew he was right to want NC and honestly thought he could have it right away. I had no idea just how hard the OM was going to be to give up. I'm sorry to say it took me two months before no contact was real. In a few days it will be one year since I've had contact with the OM. So no, I am not living in la la land.
[/b]

Orchid: Sounds like there was a lot of confusion in your mind and heart at the time.

You know, when this happens to the WS, the BS is often thrown into a state of confusion also.

Seems like you were living in la la land at one time. That is the time I was speaking about.

Unfortunately, I don't think this is the place for me. I do not believe in the [b]fog concept that rules here. The way I see it (I'm 40+ years) I was not in a fog. The feeling I had/have for the OM were/are real. I know, not a popular notion here.
[/b]

Orchid: Awhh.....the fog. Please let me clarify what 'the fog' means.

NO one is denying feelings between the OP and WS are real. They are. They just are not genuine.

Why? Because in a short time, a lot of logic, common sense, morals, reasonable judgement are thrown out. In it's place, deceit, denial, addiction, frustration, lies and conceit takes their place.

In the fog, the mind and heart generally begin to go in at least 2 different directions. The mind generally knows that an A is not healthy. So the WS calls is something less offensive. Let's say 'friends'.....good frieds...... best friend...... oops now lover (soul mate? Hmm....) Now this one was based on what I witnessed first hand!

In the fog, the WS no longer has a clear view of values and responsibilities. Most are able to keep up appearances, but for how long? Many begin to withdraw from most family and friends. A few even move away and some have even gone so far as to take on new identities..... yes, that 's just from examples of WS' who have come here at MB.

Fog is the name dubbed to link these and other events witnessed by the BS. A short and to the point word. Very apropro.

I had a dream (not the Martin Luther King dream)..... no this one was a nightmare that I had about 1 month after d/d. I was in a dark room, holding my child in my arms. NO light from any area. In this room were obstacles all around me (from the ceiling, floor, stickout out of the wall, stacked, etc.). In this dream, the only way I could survive was to keep moving. Being totally distorted, I could only concentrate on the fact that I needed to hold onto my child with all my life. Each step I took would either keep us alive or kill us. It was that scary. To me, that is what the BS feels. Alone and in the dark..... Oh yes, while in that dark room, I heard voices. Laughter all around me. I had no way of tuning the out or turning the volume down. I had no control over my surrounding....just needed to survive it. The laughter came from the Ws and OP, they were bone chilling shrills.

I did have to deal with my WS whilst he was in this fog like state of mind. It was not pleasant and very difficult. I had to fight against not getting sucked into this fog.

How do I know it was the fog? Because the wS would show periodic signs of santity even while in the A. Pinpointing which things brought him back to reality was a challenge. It was not what I thought it would be.

Is every WS in the fog? Well that may be debateable. More WS deny it that those who truly are not in the fog.

I think that those who have an A and are truly NOT in the fog are the ones to be afraid of.

How one can knowingly have an A and see the damage it is doing all around them and still do it, is beyond me.

Somehow, I don't think you are quite that brass.

Actually I don't think the BS's here and the OM/OW on gloryb know what you have. A place where you can go, freely speak your mind and know many other will be there to empathize with you. Maybe WS's don't deserve a place of our own.

Orchid: Well Wanted, maybe it would be better NOT to be a WS and then be able to freely go anywhere that is healthy for you.

WS is not a title one should be proud of. But you don't have to carry that title around forever either. It is really up to you.

It might be a hard thing to have to earn your W title back, but from what I have heard and seen, it is well worth it.

[b]Once again, thanks for your time. I mean no disrespect.[/QB]

Orchid: Good to hear. No disrespect intended. Just a bit of 'straight talk'......tough love ya know?!??! I personally feel, it does no one any good to [censored] foot around such a deep subject.

take care and keep posting.

If it helps to know, you are not the first WS to feel this way....... yet those that have stuck around, have helped and been helped, a lot.

WE are not a bad bunch, in fact we generally have a pretty good sense of humor despite all our pain. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by wanting:
<strong>ALostSoul,

So, chalk me up as one person who doesn't think that every affair has to be "fog". There are times when the feelings are genuine and that's that. My .02 anyway.

You're a rare bird here at MB. I wish this was the general consensus. There's something about all the fog talk that really bothers me.

Thanks for both of your responses.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Even as the BS, I have read this forum for a while now, and I have wondered why this topic has never been addressed. Do I think most WS's are affected by "the fog"? Sure, but I also accept the reality that not all affairs are the result of fog, some happen because the WS met someone they truly love. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
Michael
Me 40
FWW 39
M 19
Two S's
A began Jan 01
D Day Jun 01
In MC, IC

Try www.facereality.com. They have good forums, much like mb, except there is not the methodic aproach to recovery you find here. They have separate forums for BS, BW,UH, UW and so on. But still there are flame wars from time to time.
The number of posts has droped drasticaly the last months. I gues because lurking is no longer allowed, you have to register. IMO that stops recrutaion of new members.

[edit link]

WANTING

This is NOT a flame, but 2 honest questions. Think of it as a sort of integrity test to your "let me be honest with you" statement....

Here's my 2 questions:

How has committing adultery helped you?

How has committing adultery been detrimental to you?

let's be honest, OK?

My H committed adultery .... and we are now happier than ever before.

Pepper

<small>[ March 02, 2003, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I do not believe in the fog concept that rules here. The way I see it (I'm 40+ years) I was not in a fog. The feeling I had/have for the OM were/are real. I know, not a popular notion here.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The fog comes from the condensation of the hot, humid air that is inside the BUBBLE they maintain the A in....

Most here do in fact believe in the "fog" concepts. There is a lot of truth to that, if you will take the time to try to understand. But more so, "fog" is real within itself.

Fog is real in the sense that most WS make important, life-altering decisions based only on 5% of the information needed to make a proper, well-thought decision. Most WS make those decisions while being severely hindered. They are hindered due to the fact that most A's are in the "bubble" that I speak of.

For instance, let's take the XW's situation....

I watched the XW and OM have to relegate their R to the interior of an automobile (PI's are handy, sometimes). That was their "bubble". Their "love" was manifested and maintained inside that bubble. Yet...XW was convinced that their R could survive outside the bubble.

Her life-altering decision, made from circumstances that happened ONLY in the inside of the automobile, was that her and OM was going to live happily ever-after. They would get their respective DV's, and then be with each other.

I ask you....HOW can you make a decision of "being in love", when...

1. You never have the opportunity to enjoy a public movie together, in comfort, without fear of "being caught"?
2. Same for a nice restaurant?
3. How about ANY nice vacation together?
4. You can't take each other to family outings. You don't get the chance to enjoy TRUE fellowship with one another's friends and family?
5. And the list goes on and on and on....

So, with that being said, the entire A is based on lies and secrecy. What makes everyone think that the OP will NEVER lie to THEM?

So, you say, the A feels wonderful? That is the whole issue here. It is SUPPOSED to be wonderful. Why? Because you INTEND for it to be! How many times have you went to meet the OP, thinking..."Gee, I dread this." Or...Didn't care if you met or not? You never go to meet the OP thinking that when you get there the kids are gonna be out of control, hungry, finicky, or the such. You never go there knowing you have to discuss the bills, the rude in-laws, the problems you are having with the IRS, etc. So you see, there are no problems inside the "bubble". Your bubble is your amusement park.

Sorry, the REAL world is no amusement park.

One thing in my sitch that really amazed me is just how distorted some WS and OP thinking can become. Distorted thinking...could that be the "fog" we speak of? The OM had told my XW that the OM and his W's SF was non-existant. Hadn't had SF in months. Slept in seperate bedrooms for a while. M was out of convenience for their 4 year-old. I did ask her if she believed that. Her response? "Yes. I trusted him." He was her soulmate, you see, and would never do her that way.

Well...OM's W ended up pregnant. At first I couldn't believe that my XW could be that gullible at 32 years old. But then again, she told him the EXACT same thing. She could understand why she needed to lie to him, but couldn't even fathom the fact that he would be lying to her. THAT is the fog.....

SO I ask the WS's out there.....Have you ever told a lie to the OP? Have you been TOTALLY honest with them? If not, HOW can you be sure that they have been honest with you? How can you make the proper decision when the information that you have to work with is full of falsehoods?

When you think you can, you are in the fog.

Plain and simple.

HCII

Wanting -
Welcome to MB forum. You said you''ve been lurking for 9 mos, I'm curious, what made you post now? Is something happening in your life at the moment to cause you to seek dialogue?

I am a BS. If you don't mind, I'd like to ask you a few questions that I'd also like to ask my WH, but since we're in Plan B, I can't. I know that everyone is different, but maybe your answers will shed SOME light.

1. Where were you going with your A? Did you have a plan, or did it just "happen"?
2. Did you think of your future with OM?
3. If you have kids, did you think about how they would react to your A? How about other family?
4. Did you decide that it didn't matter what anyone else thought, it was your life?

I think these kinds of questions, and perhaps some of the answers, brings up the *fog* concept. I have no doubt that both you and my WH had/have strong feelings for OM/OW. That's just the point - you have strong FEELINGS, but where is the logic in your life during the A? My WH actually ACCUSED me of being logical, said he was tired of logic and wanted to live by emotion instead. I suppose you can do that for awhile, but eventually reality will poke it's way into the fantasy. Then what? Life is a combination of feelings and logic, and when you live by feelings alone, you are in a fog.

You said that your A was a mistake, and that if you could turn back the hands of time you'd never do it. My WH said the same thing. In your post you said that you weren't aware of EA, so neither you nor your H considered what you were doing as having an A. Was there ever a nagging little voice in your head that cautioned you? I ask this b/c I've brought the subject of A's up to many, many people, even before anyone knew my situation, and not one has said that an A was a good thing. I'd venture to say that "A's are wrong" is the majority opinion in our culture. If there was a little voice in your head, what did you say to yourself to stifle it? And once you went to PA, you knew you had crossed a line and you ended it, so was the voice very loud?.

If I understand you correctly, you are looking for a place to express yourself, a WS, as a person who wants to work on your M. Your A is over. You realize it was a "mistake". You want to talk about your A and your M from the perspective of a WS without getting "flamed", and I don't blame you for that. I read most of the WS posts on this board b/c I want to understand, and I welcome your input if you decide to continue posting. I think you're right, the common denominator here is pain, from all sides, and we're all trying to work through it. Have you noticed that some of the BS here seem to feel as guilty about the A as some of the WS's? Maybe "responsible for the A" is a better way to say it. I haven't gotten there yet, but I keep reading and learning. I think your perspective as a WS is valuable to the learning process, and perhaps the perspectives of some BS's will help you, too.
Lablady

Me BS 47
WH 48
M 24 yrs
2 grown children, S 24, D 22
OW 44 widow/co-worker
H had 1 PA and 1 EA 15 and 13 yrs ago, D-Day for both 13 yrs ago
This D-Day 7/02
H goes back and forth btwn me and OW 8/02 thru 12/02
I take him back 8 times after he promises NC each time
12/31/02 H moves in w/OW
1/29/03 I receive letter from WH, says he is getting own apt., needs time to sort things out
2/10/03 I send Plan B letter to H
Apartment became available this week, don't know if he moved in
I'm adjusting to living alone, making plans for my future

There is a medical explanation for fog. But before I state my understanding of it, I believe the use of the term here by those of us who witness it describes the wacky, self absorbed irrationality demonstrated by SOOOOO many WSs. Is it universal? Maybe not, but it's real prevalent in romantic affairs. I think it's an attempt by those witnessing WS behavior to label the adolescent behavior, the ridiculous lies, the glaring hypocrisy, etc., characteristic of the truly love drunk.

Before I discovered MB and first read about "fog", I described my wife's behavior do my friends and family as being the result of an alien abduction. No earthly explanation would do.

Now for the medical explanation. The way it was explained to me (at a lecture late last year related to teens and alcohol) by a knowledgable researcher in the field of brain chemistry response to stimuli, the response to ANY pleasurable stimuli releases dopamine. With every warm fuzzy received through drugs, alcohol or feelings of new love or sexual attraction (as in a romantic affair), scientists say, the brain delivers a hit of euphoria-inducing dopamine. Blood rushed into the anterior cingulate region of the brain, flush with neurotransmitters that react to expectation and reward. When there's enough of it, the brain's normal "oops" response gets over ridden and the person loses the normal self checking we all possess. Hence the affected person does stupid, irrational things. No "oops" to catch them. Apparently, in an affair, the excitement and "forbidden fruit" aspects amplify the reaction over "normal" love feelings. This is why the behavior of WSs can be so extreme. A very strong hit of dopamine.

wanting,

I can relate also. I had no idea what an EA was either, and honestly, still struggle with the concept. Even though I have had no contact for a few months, I still catch myself referring to her as my "friend" rather than OW. My wife also had no problem with my friend until in a heated argument I confessed that I had feelings for my friend, in fact, up until that time, she encouraged me talking to her about my feelings.

I still constantly find myself wanting to contact her (though since I first cut off contact, she has grown to hate me and refuses to acknowledge me).

I guess the point to my post is to let you know that I also searched for a site such as the one you talk about to no avail. Then I realized something. What purpose would such a site serve? Yes, we might get some sympathy from some folks, but what good would that do? We'd all be throwing a big pity party for ourselves, when we were the ones that hurt our S's AND the OP (like you said, we are the common enemy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ). We know it is best that it is over and need to work on the relationship in front of us.

I also have some issues with some of the MB principals that are pervasive around here (fog included), but that is not the point. The first issue is to FORGET about the OP. I don't think we can really rebuild our relationship using any sort of plan until that is accomplished. Admittedly, I am not there yet either (and it honestly scares me that you have been 1 year w/o contact and are not over it either), but it is getting better. I have to make conscious decisions to distract myself when the thoughts come around.

Probably not a heck of a lot of help, but just so you know, you are not alone here. There were ALOT of harsh words thrown my way when I talked openly about it here at first, but there are some members who are really helping my W and I now.

Wanting:

I am a BH. My WW had a PA last spring, and we are struggling to rebuild.

I just wanted to let you know I, for one, would not flame you. As a BH, I value your comments and opinions. I have lurked for many weeks, and the one thing I can say is that I have found the WW postings to be extremely helpful.

When I found out about the A, my world spiralled. I thought I was the only one in the whole world going through this pain and humiliation (I AM A CUCKOLD!!!!) that no one else could fathom it. Reading other BH posts remind me others share this pain, even if in silence.

But, the WW postings are the ones that have helped me the most. They have given me some insight into what my W is feeling/experiencing, and have helped me go forward.

To all the WW I say thank you. I hope you do continue to post, because some of us do appreciate it and take inspiration from you.

Struggling
Uphill

Can I put my vote in here to say that I do not believe in "fog"? If you really understood what was going on inside the head of a WS, BS, or anyone else, for that matter, it would make perfect sense. Many therapists (including W. Harley, btw, though I have heard him refer to "the fog", too) will tell you the same thing.

wanting, sorry you feel uncomfortable, but then you made a choice in life that puts you there.
My question would be, what are you looking for?
Do you want a forum that will agree with your A and make you feel better about it?
Or one that will possibly make you wake up and save your Marriage?
Wounds hurt, and WS's cause a lot of wounds to their S's and themselves.
Healing wounds sometimes take a lot of bad medicine that leave a nasty taste in you. But if you are trying to do the right thing, then you have to accept that.
I think most on MB will be supportive if you are seeking to get out of the A and find peace again. Looking at how to save your marriage.
If that is not what you're seeking, why go to any forum? Just divorce your mate and go for it. But do something one way or the other. Keeping othes in limbo is not right either.
Are you searching for someone to tell you it's ok to have your cake and eat it too?
There are plenty out there that will do that. Because they need to justify their behavior!
And believe me, there is no justification for adultery no matter how bad your marriage is!
NONE!
Remember this, while you feel you're getting flamed, what are you doing to your S? A lot worse than just some harsh words I'd say.
I'd say you're afraid to take a good, hard look at yourself. You do not want to admit how you feel inside about this or what you're doing. You're looking for someone to justify what you're doing. If they tell you it's ok, they're lying.
You have a lot more at stake then just your marriage too. How about your soul? Is anyone worth it?
BS's take a lot of flack too! We hear from WS's how we didn't make them happy, how we failed and pushed them away. We already have deep pain and suffering, then we hear how it's all our fault!
There are two sides to the coin. If you want to change your life for good, then you might try posting more here, listening and interacting with all here. There are both on MB. WS's and BS's.
I think all are welcome, and treated with compassion.
Of course, there will be a few who bash. You will find that no matter where you go. You need to try seeing both sides and not be locked into your own view. You just may learn something worthwhile here.
BS's have experienced a lot of suffering and do vent. It's healthy to vent!
But you may offer something helpful here as well. Your side of the coin, your view point may open up some understandings.
You obviously need something and I think you've read here trying to see if there is hope for your situation. Either way!
If you want to continue with lies, deception and your A, then you'll find a forum that will support you. Satan runs rampant on the internet!
Might I say, "Choose this day whom you will serve"?
Because you might not have tomorrow!
God bless, LouLou