Hello,

I am a 26 year old man and have been with my high school sweetheart for almost 10 years now. We have two children: daughter 4 years, son 6 months.

Currently there is a OW in the picture. But before I get to that I would like to give you a little history. I'm not the best at writing my thoughts and feelings down so bear with me.

We first started dating in high school, I was 17 and she was 15. At the time, I didn't think it was going to last very long. There were a few things I didn't like about her and honestly I've always felt that I good do better.
She had a very low self esteem and immediately attempted to control me through jealousy. She was a huge jealous freak. She had no direction in life. There was nothing that she aspired to be and never had any plans for the future other than having kids.

But these things that I didn't like about her are also what drew me to her. I felt safe that she would always be there for me. She became so emotionally dependent on me that I felt I didn't even have to work on our relationship and she would always be there. She had no one else.

We moved in together 4 years after we started dating. I got accepted into a good college and she moved with me to the big city.
This was a very stressful time for both of us. I fell into a big depression. We had left all our friends and family behind. Our relationship was very rocky. We never went out or talked that much. I would become annoyed of her very easily. I was just taking her for granted, wallowing in my self pity.

I wasn't meeting any of her needs and she quickly began looking elsewhere. About four months after we moved she had found another man. They met on the internet and after some time talking together they finally met. It never amounted to anything all they did was kiss. She also later confessed to kissing a guy that she worked with around the same time.
I quickly realized how selfish I had been and how badly I had been treating her. Even though she had betrayed me, this helped pull me out of my depression, somewhat.
I also realized for the first time how emotionally dependent I was on her. The though of being alone at this time was too much for me to handle. I felt crippled. Looking back, I know I didn't stay with her because I loved her, I was just scared to be alone.

It was during this recovery stage that we decided to start trying for a baby. I no longer trusted her and I saw this as a way to make her dependent on me again.

After my daughter was born things took a turn for the worse. I had a lot of resentment toward her for betraying me. I realized that our decision to have a child was made for all the wrong reasons. Soon after she was born my daughter developed colic. She would cry all day long, hours at a time for about 3 months. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. I couldn't handle it and I basically abandoned them both emotionally.

My W resented me and still does because I didn't help her out through this. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, but I left her to handle it all by herself. So now our relationship was pretty much as it was before. Only worse because of all the resentment we harbored.

I finished college and we bought a new house in a close by town. Our daughter was just turning two. My W got a job outside of the home for the first time since having the baby. It was a night job, she looked after my daughter during the day and I did at night. We never saw much of each other except on weekends. Even then, we never did much together.

About four months after starting her job she began pursuing a man that she worked with. He was 43 and married with three kids. 21 years older than her. To me, this shows how desperate she was to have some of her needs met. It lasted for 3 months before I found out. She says they never had sex but to this day I still don't believe it.

I was absolutely devastated. My appetite was gone, I lost 20 pounds in a month and a half. I had an anxiety attack and was plagued with acute anxiety for about 8 months afterwards. Again I was scared to be alone. I felt very small and weak.

They ceased contact as soon as they were found out, and to my knowledge haven't talked since. At first she never even felt guilty. I know now she was going through withdrawal. She was addicted to this guy. He was meeting all the needs that I wasn't.

I felt like a chump going back to her but we made the decision to try and work things out. Deep down I felt that leaving her was the best thing to do. I truly have never felt that she was the "one" for me. But now we had a daughter and I really felt obligated to works things out for her. That and I was too much of a pansy to leave.

After the withdrawal stage she began to feel a lot of remorse and guilt, which really helped me feel that maybe we had something to work for.
We were and still are very open to each other. Our relationship was better than it had ever been. For the first time we began talking and understanding the resentment we had for each other. We even went to a marriage counselor for a while.
For the first time in our 8 years together, we were meeting each others needs. Again we decided to have a baby for all the wrong reasons. My son was born in September of 2002.

Life has been very good to me this last year. My son is wonderful.(no colic) I recently started my own business, which is booming. And my relationship is better than it has ever been.

Here's where things get really confusing. Recently I've developed feelings for my W's friend. She seems to be the exact opposite of my W. She has a career (nurse) and has a lot of self confidence which I admire. She's funny, smart and looks great. She is always in a good mood and the whole atmosphere seems to change when she is around. She is raising her two kids all by herself with no assistance from her deadbeat ex, which I also admire.

She has the same feelings towards me and we have expressed how we feel about each other. We have started touching and kissing each other on occasion.
It feels absolutely great to be with her, but at the same time I feel like crap because I know I'm hurting my kids. In all honesty I don't feel that bad towards my W because all the cheating she has done in the past. I would leave my W right now if it weren’t for my kids.

Realistically I know it cannot happen and if I pursue this further a lot of people will be hurt. But I really feel that the OW could be the "one". She has all the traits that I admire in a woman, which my W is lacking.

The OW and I have talked and we have agreed that a future for us is unlikely. But we still continue to show each other affection. I'm even having thoughts of getting away for a weekend with her where we don't have to look over our shoulders to see if someone is coming.

What the heck do I do?
Any and all feedback would be appreciated. Give it to me straight.
Regards

Dear How?

What a mess!!! I am sorry that you have been going through this turmoil for most of your relationship and are still so young.

Sometimes, I don't feel very well placed to give advise, there are people out there much better than me at doing that. However, the weekends here are fairly quiet, so if you don't get much response, bump up your message again on Monday.

One thing I would say is read as much as you can on this website, and get the book SAA. It will explain so much about how you are feeling and how your W may be feeling.

I would also say that on several occasions you have made the choice to stay with your W. You have stayed with her for 10 years, and in your own words, you don't feel bad about your A, because she has had several of her own. "Just kissing" can be equally as damaging to a relationship as a full blow PA (physical affair). Here it is known as an EA (emotional affair), and to some has caused as much damage if not more than a PA.

You must decide if you want to work on your M or not. It is that simple. If you do, you must immediately stop contact with OW and tell your W. If you don't, stop messing your W around and leave her and follow your OW to wherever - probably not a happy ending. But, you cannot continue this situation. It will end in tears and more. Believe me, I know, I was the FWS and now my husband has moved out and is involved in his own A. The pain and grief I have caused not only to him, but to myself is something I bitterly regret and am ashamed of. Nothing justifies an A - NOTHING.

Keep coming here for support. I believe that although you wonder why you have stayed with your W at various different times and have put this down to weakness, it is more to do with love and compatability, a shared history and 2 lovely children. Want to give that all up?

Take care and wishing you well from London.

Lisa

Thanks for the response. I’m not the type of person to have an affair. I’ve always pushed other women away when they seemed to be getting too close. I still can’t believe that I have these feelings for someone else.
My W is not a bad person. I know she loves me a lot and she is the best mother in the world.
The problem is that I just don’t trust her and likely never will.
She is very insecure and, I think, susceptible to advances from other men. I really feel that she will cheat on me again.

The advice you gave was exactly what I’ve been thinking. Either leave my W or end it with OW. Stop playing these games.
I really want to leave my W and be with OW but I don’t want to leave my kids. I can’t leave my kids.
When I look at it this way the choice seems easy; stay with my W.
The OW is a strong person and I know she will be fine without me after some time.

But the grass is looking a heck of a lot greener on the other side. If I think of just me then the right choice seems to be the OW.
Is this just me being selfish?

In all honesty, I have no intention of making a decision at this time. I don’t have a plan of any type. I know it can’t go on like this much longer. I feel guilty when I’m intimate with my W. If feel like I’m cheating on OW. As a result I’ve been pushing W away.

Maybe I should just let the cat out of the bag and see what happens. Maybe getting caught or confessing is the best thing that could happen.

I read on here a lot about being in the fog and I think I’m in it real deep. Any thoughts will be appreciated.
Regards,
Brad

Actually, you're a pretty good writer. You made it very easy to understand and follow the flow of events.

I must confess .... I did <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> BUST OUT LAUGHING when I read this:

"But I really feel that the OW could be the "one". She has all the traits that I admire in a woman, which my W is lacking."

Yes ... but they share THIS trait .... both are willing to be adulterers.

So, honesty and fidelity are NOT what you admire in a woman? .... oops!

You are in a pickle right now, and you look over to the next jar ... see something interesting ... and you want to jump over to the other pickle jar.

Stop and think.

What can go wrong with an OW who dates a married man with children?

Stay and post ... you are really an interesting guy ... and oh-so confused!

((hugs))

Wow, so far these replies are not at all what I expected. I thought people would be slamming me pretty hard. I know as good as anyone how painful an A is.
Is it because she has cheated on me in the past that I'm not being flamed?

Pepperband, honesty and fidelity are what I truly admire in a woman. I&#8217;ve always been brutally honest with my W and I always expected the same. I took for granted that my W would as honest as I was and that&#8217;s part of the reason I was so hurt by her A. It caught me by surprise, I didn&#8217;t see it coming at all.

Besides the current situation, the OW has always been honest and faithful in her past relationships. She does seem to have a knack for attracting deadbeat, controlling losers. (No, I&#8217;m not referring to myself) Which is odd for one with as much intelligence and confidence as she has.
I think that is why she is so attracted to me. She sees how I am with my W and my kids. I&#8217;m not trying to toot my own horn, but I think I&#8217;m a great father and husband.
The OW feels very bad that she is betraying her friend, my W. OW has been cheated on in the past as well, which is another bond that we have. We have talked quite a bit about the hurt we endured in our relationships.

I&#8217;m not going after OW for sex. It&#8217;s not me, I&#8217;ve never had a one night stand and I&#8217;ve never desired to have one. I crave stability in my life, more than most. This is part of the reason I&#8217;ve stayed with my W in the past, I was too scared to change.
I&#8217;m thinking long term and who I think I would be happiest being with. I see the OW as being honest and faithful to me. I have serious doubts that my W will be faithful forever. My W, because of her low self esteem is very susceptible to emotional attachment to anyone who will give her the time of day.
I see my W as being high risk to having another A in the future.

I&#8217;m not sure that my W and OW can be grouped together in the honesty and fidelity department.
I believe that OW has made a bad choice in becoming involved with me at this time and so does she. But it&#8217;s just that, she has made a bad decision based on emotions, she is still as honest and faithful as she has always been.
Thanks,
Brad

Brad .... you're 26 years old, right? I'm 53 ... talkin' to ya like a mom.

Here's the scoop Brad, you are in no way shape or form ready to switch horses. You don't even know how to ride the horse you have now.

Be honest ... WHY is this wonderful woman of a nurse OW raising 2 kids by herself??? ... Could it be because she doesn't know how to be in a healthy marriage relationship either? How many times has this princess been married? Are these kids of the same Dad? Where is the Dad?

"She does seem to have a knack for attracting deadbeat, controlling losers" ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Is this a great resume or what! Please notice you said "attracting" when you might have more accurately said "choosing".

You said: "I see my W as being high risk to having another A in the future."

I AGREE!

I also see this OW high risk to having another A in the future!

I also see YOU as VERY VERY high risk!

How to stop this stupidity? Certainly NOT by dis'ing your W's character while you're busy having an A with a woman who <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> "is still as honest and faithful as she's always been"...... meanwhile ... --->"The OW feels very bad that she is betraying her friend, my W." .... Gee, she's sweet. She gets to be faithful and honest while betraying her friend. Talent like that is rare. LOL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Brad .... what you smokin' dude?

From mean OLD Pepper .... a NURSE of all things! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But it’s just that, she has made a bad decision based on emotions, she is still as honest and faithful as she has always been.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What is honest and faithful about betraying a friend? What is honest and faithful about having an affair, even if it is her first one? What guarantees she won't have another one?

I actually do think her self esteem is lacking. You just don't see it.

It is better to stay at the dance with the one you came with, Brad.

Susan

Pepperband,

Be honest ... WHY is this wonderful woman of a nurse OW raising 2 kids by herself??? ... Could it be because she doesn't know how to be in a healthy marriage relationship either? How many times has this princess been married? Are these kids of the same Dad? Where is the Dad?

She had been with her ex for the last 6 years, she is 27. Their first pregnancy was an accident 3 years ago. He was never at home, always going out without her, treating her like crap and having an A. She tried to make it work with him because of their daughter. Things seemed to be going well for a while and they decided to have another child.
Soon after he went back to his old ways.
He told her he was sick of her trying to control him and left her in the middle of the pregnancy. All she wanted was for him to stay home and treat her like a human being. He has given her no money or assistance of any kind and hardly ever sees the kids.

&#8220;How to stop this stupidity? Certainly NOT by dis'ing your W's character while you're busy having an A&#8221;

But my W&#8217;s character is the whole issue. I know I sound hippocritical. As I&#8217;ve said, I think my W is high risk to have an A. I&#8217;m not sure if I want to take the chance that she will be loyal. I don&#8217;t know if she deserves that chance.
I remember vividly the pit I had in my stomach for 8 months that never went away. The feeling of constant irrational fear. This experience has changed how I view this world and the people in it. I am stronger now, but not strong enough to go through that again.

Susan,

&#8220;What is honest and faithful about betraying a friend? What is honest and faithful about having an affair, even if it is her first one? What guarantees she won't have another one?

I can&#8217;t say for sure that OW will be faithful to me, there are no guarantees with anyone. I can only say that she has always been faithful in her past relationships.

I do think she is lacking self esteem, but no more than the average person. I have said that she is confident, which is a relative statement. I guess I&#8217;ve been comparing OW&#8217;s confidence to my W&#8217;s, who is really lacking it.

I want to thank you both for your replies. I am still very confused but it feels good to talk about it.
I know I can't leave my W for OW. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. I do believe though, under different circumstances, that OW and I would have a beautiful relationship.
Maybe I should just go horseless for a while?
Thanks again,
Brad

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But my W’s character is the whole issue. I know I sound hippocritical. As I’ve said, I think my W is high risk to have an A. I’m not sure if I want to take the chance that she will be loyal. I don’t know if she deserves that chance.
I remember vividly the pit I had in my stomach for 8 months that never went away. The feeling of constant irrational fear. This experience has changed how I view this world and the people in it. I am stronger now, but not strong enough to go through that again.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BRAD!!! Do you think this could be a little judgemental on your part? You are not going to find a perfect "mate" because you will not find a perfect person. You CAN just swap problems if you want.

You don't know if you wife deserves your grace? What about your beautiful children? You can just pitch it all and walk away?

Brad, be careful going horseless for a while. That is not the answer either. I think you will carry these same issues into another relationship, no matter if it is now or later.

I'll tell you a little secret...I was a virgin when I married at 20. You know why? Because I was soooo faithful, I wanted to wait until I married and have ONLY one partner.

But, you know what Brad? That didn't happen. I DID commit adultry, that is why I am on this board.

My husband and I did the hard work to recover our marriage instead of just dumping it and starting over. It was worth the effort, and I can confidently say that I KNOW neither of us would have another affair.

Show your wife some mercy. Give her a chance. Work with her, Brad. Examine youself and see where you contributed.

As Just Learning once said to me "there is no pancake so flat that it does not have two sides".

<small>[ March 03, 2003, 07:20 AM: Message edited by: Susan ]</small>

Bumping up for JEN to see how the triangle of victim drama works.

Brad .... hang in here .... you are not unloved by us here on MB .... we've been there and done that.

(((Brad)))

Don't let me scare you off. I care. I have lived it and am further along the journey.

The type of marriage you desire with your wife is possible!

Susan

<small>[ March 03, 2003, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: Susan ]</small>

Thanks for the support. It&#8217;s great that there are places like MB where people can reach out. Especially for guys like me, who don&#8217;t feel comfortable talking about my problems.
I do have a friend (male) that I have told everything to. But we were good friends when my W was having her A and therefore I believe he is biased.
He&#8217;s not encouraging me to be with OW or my W, he just has a &#8220;whatever makes you happy&#8221; kind of mentality.

I&#8217;ve been doing a lot of thinking today on how I&#8217;m feeling about all this.
It is really bothering me that I don&#8217;t feel any remorse or guilt for what I am doing. Not much has happened between OW and myself, other than kissing and expressing feelings. But I am being unfaithful, why doesn&#8217;t this bother me?

Many times I have caught myself thinking that I wouldn&#8217;t be doing this if my W had been faithful to me. I really believe that this is true.
I&#8217;ve also been trying to convince myself that my W would be fine with my A. That she would be so understanding because of her A&#8217;s in the past.
Even if the A grows into a PA, I don&#8217;t think I would feel bad about that either.

This may sound evil, but here goes. I have had revenge in my mind ever since my W&#8217;s last A.
I have never sought out an A, but I always said that if I was in situation where one was possible, I&#8217;m not sure what I would do. Eye for an eye.

I have it in my head that I&#8217;m going to feel better by continuing down the path that I&#8217;m on.
Extremely selfish thoughts, I know. But still, they are there.
Thanks again,
Brad

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by How?:
<strong>...........
Many times I have caught myself thinking that I wouldn&#8217;t be doing this if my W had been faithful to me. I really believe that this is true.
I&#8217;ve also been trying to convince myself that my W would be fine with my A. That she would be so understanding because of her A&#8217;s in the past.
Even if the A grows into a PA, I don&#8217;t think I would feel bad about that either.

This may sound evil, but here goes. I have had revenge in my mind ever since my W&#8217;s last A.
I have never sought out an A, but I always said that if I was in situation where one was possible, I&#8217;m not sure what I would do. Eye for an eye.

I have it in my head that I&#8217;m going to feel better by continuing down the path that I&#8217;m on.
Extremely selfish thoughts, I know. But still, they are there.
Thanks again,
Brad</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Brad,
Gonna go out on a limb here and say that your selfish pull for a revenge A is dangerous. Not unusual but still very dangerous. This subject has been tackled here before. Some BS have done that. Let's keep this up on top and see if you can get some of their responses along with the help from the others.

Just wanted to let you know that expressing your feelings even if they sound cruel is important to communicate.

IMHO, your recognition of these feelings puts you on a path of personal recovery which may lead to marital recovery. Why? Because there is some care in your current relationship with your W, but you have been deeply wounded by her actions and it appears that your attempt to heal you is warped by thinking it is ok to do the same so she can feel you pain. I am not a professional on this subject......just someone who has felt the same. But I did not have a revenge I. I did think about it though.

Hope this helps.

L.

It sounds to me that you are doing what a lot, if not most, people do; making excuses for yourself, justifying doing what you know is wrong. Do not forget those children, and the advise you have been getting here about how things will not be better with this woman. They won't, if I was you I would get therapy with your wife and perhaps on your own as well. Kissing and expressing feelings with another woman is not going to help you in any way. I think you will regret going down that road. I know your children will suffer. Take care and be prudent.

Well, at Pepper's suggestion, I just read your entire thread. I certainly see shadows of myself and my H within your situation. Perhaps you'd like to read my reply to Pepper over on my thread: Reply

You seem to be aware of the fact that the A you're becoming involved in is wrong, but feel justified at the same time. I guess your heart is arguing with your head. I'd say listen to your head. Think of your children first and their mother second. OW belongs much further down that list. I know you have been hurt by your W before and fear she'll hurt you again, but hurting her before she hurts you is not a healthy solution. Sometimes I think that's why I had my A, b/c I wanted to beat my H to hurting me with his really close female friend(s).

Keep posting here. I think you may be learning as much about yourself by writing down your thoughts as you are from the replies you are getting. I know I find MB useful in that way sometimes too.

Take care,

Jen