~~~CODE BLUE~~~

Your family is dying, and you're not going to put up a fight?????? You aren't going to deploy the troops????

Your family is dying .... and you are refusing CPR ?????

Do you love your family enough to put up a struggle as it's dying???

By "fight" I mean using MB principles, paying good money for good therapy advice ..... have you called MB to schedule a therapy appointment?

CPR is required, not a whimpy attitude!
This is a code blue!!!!!!!!!

Call the Harleys for an appointment right now!

<small>[ March 05, 2003, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Three things:

1) you are right, you need a miracle - so PRAY man, PRAY

2) Harley points out that even in deep withdrawal, there are moments when the withdrawn spouse opens their eyes a little. Make sure that when that happens, she sees a new you. face it, you need to change, anyway. Either she can benefit from those changes, or it can be someone else. But get with it, man! You have short windows of opportunity, and you will probably not even be able to tell when they are there.

3.) The kids will not be OK. Print this and leave it somewhere where she will find it: Testimonial

Marathon Man, Collect yourself, DONT PANIC! Stay at HOME, avoid any confrontation at all costs! Sit down in a favorite place with your farovite drink (non-alcohalic polease!) and write down all your self concepts about everything. Start to finish! When you're finished try to put everything in some kind of order so you can understand it. Look in retrospect, keep a good perspective, and most of all stay focus. The support that you have received thus far is good advice, use it! Especially "not leaving your home" The kind of feelings you're experiening right now are no doubt, EMOTIONAL and theres alot of them, write them down. Before they lay you out!!! Did I say PRAY? Make sure you pray always, stay in touch with our creator He Knows our need before we do.
TRY and I MEAN TRY to open the doors back to your wifes HEART! You should know them you're her husband STILL. Think back and remember the oneness you use to feel daily and remember how things were then and try to reapply them with some KICK TO IT! Try to find out your wifes chief complaint, by now she has many, stay claim if possible at all times also. Picture your wife as a emergency patient you found on the side of a road, you would approach her slowly w/ love & thoughtfulness to try and help her. Then you need to deside how she WAS injured and HOW BADLY. Once you can get her to see you are for real, she may not let on for awhile, be patient, shes not use to all the love and affection probably so she'll be hesident at first. Ya know, kinda wondering whats come over him? Keep your tactics to yourself, just modify as needed and let your HEART, your person, who you know she will remember and love as CHRIST LOVES HIS CHURCH. You should be able to progress if she can be reached, thats going to be your first bigest task. Your wife needs help, the marriage is still alive, you need to find out how to keep her from inflating and making the problem bigger then it is. Look, I want to help you more if I can. I just feel you need this reply NOW! I hope I,ve helped you some. I don't have a pc at home so I use the librarys in my hometown, but I get on everyday at 5:30 to 7:00 pm. Try very hard not to overwelhem yourself, take breaks, call a REAL friend, and don't confide in to many people this can blindside you cause other damage you really don't need right now. GOD BLESS YOU!

MarathonMan remember that even though both spouses are equally responsible for the state of their marriage, the cheater is solely responsible for his/her choices that led to the affair. Let's be honest, unlesss you are an abusive individual, do you really beleive she would be considering divorcing you, if there was no other man on the scene feeding her a crock of bull about how much he loves her and how much he wishes the two of them were H and W?. Sure, your individual flaws may be a factor but don't try to put all the blame for the state of your marriage on your shoulders, she too has a lot to atone for, especially in the area of her dishonesty (like BraynP I too beleive that she has already been intimate with him).

As far as the divorce is concerned you might want to tell her "Honey I am sorry for causing you so much pain. I too would probably feel the same way you do if I was in your shoes. While I would like nothing better than our marriage to become what we envisioned it to be when we first got married, I love you too much and even though it pains me to let you go, I will if that is what will make you happy" Why would you tell her such a thing? to make her realize that she is not a caged animal with a needy mate blocking her exit to the door of her cage. This takes some of the attraction away from the divorce because you are taking yourself out of the picture as an obstacle in her plans. Does this mean you should roll over and play dead as far as the divorce is concerned? Absolutely not, who says you have to give her a divorce on her terms? You have children involved and not only you have a right and a duty to be in their lives (if a divorce is on the horizon) but it is is THEIR RIGHT to have you in their lives guiding them and protecting them as much as you can. If she doesn't like this, then tough because that's the way it is and it is not something that should be sacrificed just so that she can be happy on the expense of you and the children lives.

If you get a chance, try to find out who the OM is so that you can contact him and tell him that you will tell his wife all about his affair with your wife (chances are she probably does know but doesn't have concrete proof of his affair). If he's like so many player OM out there, he'll s*** in his pants and might even call off the affair with your W.

Please give some thought to what I said.

Searching heart.. I Guess I haven't tried enough on the real nice side..I have but it really did not work..as far as still being her H, she says in her eyes, she is no longer my wife. She still denied this morning that she has not slept with him..time is running out , we start mediation next week..She does not want to save the narriage.. she is gone too far.. there is no way I can bring her bad.. she is really getting fiesty. Her head is in the sand and noway of taking it out..No matter how nice I try to be...it is over..I will be calling his girlfriend (wife) today...to let her know what is going on..
although, that may hurt me even more in mediation..I am already going to be screwed financially..I will continue to pray.. but even if she comes back there will be so much harted from her life will be unbearable.. she says that she does not love me.. and that I really treated her like garbage..There is no way this will ever turn around into a solid bliss full marriage..
Maybe by exposing this to his wife..It may scare them.. at the same time.. if their marriage is also on the rocks .. this will give them an opportunity to move the affair into high gear..
If my wife hasn't had sex.. I amcalling her a lier.. as she says that she is trying to be honest..
she is being honest so she says .,..because we are seperating..
this really is hopeless..if she comes back I'l aklways wonder what she is up to when she leaves home and when she is at work..

"She still denied this morning that she has not slept with him."

MM- Sorry I don't have much time for a thoughtful answer, but my quick advice is to get past this issue of whether or not she's slept with him. The best thing to do is assume she has. This is always a biggie for guys but you can get past it and deal with the real issues. Good luck!

Yes there is the danger that OM's BW might kick him out and that this may give him and your WW the chance they need to be together. But if you've been here for a while like I have, you will begin to notice that many OM are only involved in A's because of the sex on the side and have absolutely no intention of forming a marriage with the OW. If your WW's OM is of this kind, then she'll get a rude awakening that her prince charming is nothing but a pathetic little frog.

Don't beg, don't plead, tell her that if she wants a divorce to go for it. But do protect yourself by getting the best and meanest divorce attorney. Remember that the reality is that most women also get screwed in a divorce, yet they don't realize this until it's too late.

<small>[ March 06, 2003, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: 2MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

I agree with 2much. You should call his W.

But: "I amcalling her a lier.. as she says that she is trying to be honest.."

Don't call her a liar. Even though it's true. She's screwed up, and even though it's quite possible she's not lying by nature, she's in a position that pretty much "requires" one to lie and cheat.

Interestingly, I believe it is possible to lie and be honest at the same time. What does ol' crazy Qfwfq mean by that? Well, honesty is about telling someone how you FEEL. Lying is about being SECRETIVE. Very different animals. Secrecy gets mixed up with privacy by people having As (or by people in general - like me: I never knew there was a difference, or one that I could put a finger on). Secrets harm those around the secretive person when they're revealed or discovered. Private matters give you an insight into the person without causing harm - you learn something about them.

I'm making a big deal out of this, I know. But I realized recently that I stalled a lot of progress by continually labeling my W while trying to rebuild. This is just one place where you can start building your W's confidence in you as a person she can come back to and confide in. Sure, you're a long way from that right at this point, but you may find yourself able to open the lines of communication at some point in the future. Just start on the right foot with a good, solid plan A.

Take care,
-Qfwfq

MM talk is cheap and if she is talking, and talking about divorce and doesn't do anything about it, then you have to question whether she truly wants it. In the meantime, don't talk about the marriage and if she tries to goad you into playing the blame game, respectfully refuse and leave her alone until she realizes that it won't work with you.

Like Just Learning has said in the past, Time and Patience are key to achieving anything, and that includes saving a marriage.

"Like Just Learning has said in the past, Time and Patience are key to achieving anything, and that includes saving a marriage."

Most ESPECIALLY saving a marriage!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
-Qfwfq

MarathonMan:

I want to echo what everyone has said here. STOP right now. Take it easy. Back up and look at this as a marathon. You are really only in the first mile of the marathon...you have 29 miles to go. You havent even got your "wind" yet.

First off, start reading. EVERYTHING! Get the Harley's books, "Torn Assunder" by Carder, Dobson's books, etc. Read, learn. Go to counseling. The counseling with Steve Harley helped tremendously in getting me ontrack. He calls himself a marriage coach. A coach is what you need right now.

Second, stop worrying about your wife. There is NOTHING you can do right now but make things worse! I KNOW! Do a search on this website under my name and go back and read all of my posts since May or June of last year. I LBed so muc, tried to "save" my marriage, etc. All the things you have been posting here. Then I gave up, saw it as hopeless. Again all the things you have been saying here. It wont be until you stop trying to control the situation that you will see changes. I promise you, if you do as the Harley's say, you will come out of this a better man. And if your wife comes back, it will be that better man that she will want to be with the rest of her life If she doesnt, then someone else out there will benefit from her mistake.

Third, map this thing out. Record what happens daily in a journal. Why? So when you start feeling like things arent working, you can go back and look at how far you have come. Keep posting here. You will receive awesome advice from both BSs and WSs. the FWSs will help tremendously because they will help you understand the meaning of the psycho babble that will come out of your wife's mouth. Steve and Jennifer Harley are also VERY good at doing this because they will tell you exactly what your wife's next move will be, and how she will react to whatever you are doing at the time (WSs are sssooooo predictable!).

Fourth, and this should have been first...get closer to God and in your faith. YOU CANNOT DO THIS ALONE! Only He knows what to do here, so rely on Him.

Hang in there. Rather than use military terms here (my genre), I will use runnign terms. You have just started the race. There will be a lot of pain, and you will want to quit at times, especially when you feel like you are "losing." DO NOT QUIT! In the end, whether your wife stays or goes, you will be glad you did. I am a poster child for this...a living example.

In His arms.

http://www.infidelitytoday.com/ gives you a way to check for semen traces on undergarments. If it is important to you. The fact of the emotional side of the affair, whether or not it is physical, is what is keeping your wife turned away from you. That is what you have to combat. The physical expression of that emotional disconnect in the form of a sex act w/ someone else is incidental. The lying is not, IMO, if she is lying, so if it was me, I would find out. But finding out will not help you do Plan A.

MarathonMan: Hi friend. It looks like allot of folks are by your side and with a helping hand I'm so happy for you. The replies I've just read are all great very good advise. You need to decide now on plans and goals, based on your on personal relationship (in retrospect) with you and your wife and how your marriage looks now. The help we as MB's are handing out to you are all based on our experiences, although somewhat similar, yours are yours! So first condition yourself better everyday, pray, and visit MB's as much as you can. Also remember YOUR LOVING WIFE WHO YOU ONCE KNEW IS CHANGED, so conduct yourself accordingly, focus on her complaints and issues, put them in respective priority and try to comfort her as much as you can (show her in a slow loving way that you can change, be positive as much as you can). Remember, she is looking for a real friend right this very moment also ( don't let her relay on the OM) she wants someone to make her feel loved, cared for and really needed. This OM is a test on you and your wife no one else, (just by reading OM's profile and your wife's, don't focus on him) she cognitively feels she needs him, because she is confused right now, as you are. She is acting out of her thinking and not her heart, so you do the opposite, let your HEART BE YOUR GUIDE. You love her and she needs you right now, find out her needs, and try to be there for her in whatever. (Take things slow). GIVE THIS OM TO THE LORD, YOU STAY FOCUSED; LET THE LORD TAKE GOOD CARE OF THE OM!!! Pray and read your Bible, I could say you'll find all your answers there, but right now you need some wisdom from all the experienced vets here at MB's you can get. Try to feel what she is feeling, see if it is not most of the time the same as your feeling, when you relate and interrelate. This is very important, it slows and softens your pain down to pace you'll control and you'll be comfortable with. Hold your pace; keep your wife in pace with you, like in a race to win. This is going to be long MarathonMan, so sat in good health both mentally and physically, very important! (Key phrase of the day: Stay focused, (don't break stride, safe some kick for the middle and end of the race), LOVE your wife, and use very thoughtful assertiveness <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Searching heart..
Thanks.. but I dont know how much ground I'm going to gain with her.. no matter how loving and caring I am.. I found out yesterday that the OM is leaving his wife.. what a coincidence!!
My wife is too far gone for me to save our marriage .. both ourcchildren are going to a sleep over tonight.. and My wife is going out with friends ( she says that the OM is out of town)and says to stay away from her.. again with an eveil face..I know that I have been at her constantly since she told me she's leaving trying to find a way.. but if I shut up now.. I really don't think it is going to make a differnce.. I will shut up, try to be as loving and as helpful as possible..and not say booo! As far as the OM.. I will have to let God take care of him in his plan...I have also got to let God take care of the situation with my wife.. It really looks hopeless and I dont know if a miracle is worthwhile.. she says that I stress her and she cannot talk to me about anything.. she says that with the OM.. she can talk about anything for hours..again where she had told me the OM was her best friend for the past several years...it only goes to show that she is ready to move on..
If she satys she says that she will be miserable...how can I get love back in her heart.. we go to mediation on Tuesday...looks like seperation is going to happen with no hope..
I will pray and pray and let God take care of this.. I do love her!! I gave her the testimonials on the effect on the girls and says that thats only one persons opion .. my girls are going to be okay.. its how we handle raising themm.. I then told her that so If one of the girls get pregnant or get into drugs or any other problem.. it will not be a result of not having both of us in their lives... She is an alien and I cant get though in any way to her..this is hopeless... this is code blue but I cant break her she is like a wild horse.. I will continue to work at it as peaceful as I can and try to show her love and respect..but it is just too late.. maybe some time apart will bring her closer together witjh me.. but judging by her actions.. once she's gone she wont be back.. only to get her support cheques...

I gave her the testimonials on the effect on the girls and says that thats only one persons opion .. my girls are going to be okay.. its how we handle raising themm..

This is NOT only one person's opinion!!! Go to, print out, and give her the information in these links:
Unexpected Legacy of Divorce

Why Marriage Matters

To say that it is one person's opinion is to be purposely blind to what professionals and researchers are telling us. It's as ridiculous as saying that it's one person's opinion that smoking cigarettes causes cancer.

Of course, for you to give up without a fight and without taking the steps that have been proven to work, will be just as bad for your kids. It won't matter to their future who did what, it will only matter that their home, their stability, and all the security they know has been irrevocably lost and destroyed. Either you are part of the solution or you are part of the problem, there is no neutral ground.

How can I get my wife to give me a chance.. Ireally dont know how much longer i'll be in the house.. it may be a few weeks,..and then all the chances are gone.. the OM is leaving his wife at same time.. the first chance they have to be alone.. he will be in her bed and all hope will be lost.. all I can do Is to show her I love her and hope that by Tuesday when we goe to mediation, she will have her eyes open and willing to give it a shot.. but she keeps telling me its over, its over ..and that why dont I accept it!! I have to get into her heart..and strt it beating for me again.. this is the last ditch effort I'm going to make this weekend the best ever, come H... or high water..
But agai, I think it is all hopeless...

"How can I get my wife to give me a chance.." Marathon, you can't! Get that into your head right now. Now that she has crossed over into Fogville and the fantasy of the affair and of this "new life," she can see nothing else. The only thing you can do is make it worse and prolong it.

"I really dont know how much longer i'll be in the house.. it may be a few weeks,..and then all the chances are gone.." Not true, not true, not true! I said the exact same things as my wife headed out the door. but what happened was that my presence was taken away from her, and thus the focus of HER anger. Which eventually, once I started doing a good Plan A, caused her to have to turn the finger toward herself. I was no longer there for her to blame for even the smallest problems in her life. And the OM? Well, she quickly found that he was woefully deficient in meeting her needs. Sure, it took awhile for her to admit it to herself because of pride (no one wants to admit they made a huge mistake). But as the stats show (only 3% of these kinds of relationships make it...and even those are mostly stricken with rpoblems due to the way they started), the odds are your wife will be back! But, it will depend a lot on you. You have to go to Plan A immediately. It was hard for me in the bginnign to understand that in reality, Plan A is for Marathonman...not Mrs. Marathon. You are to make a better Marathonman for YOU. Get smarter, get stronger. In the meantime, you cannot do anything to push, control, or change your situation with your wife. Except...that as you pull away, and as she sees the changes in you, they will fester inside her. Truth has a funny way of doing that. She cannot hide from truth forever. The truth about herself, about you, and about the OM. but you can help her hide from it longer than need be. Again, look at my threads on here over the last 9-10 months. you will see I went thru the same things, and made huge mistakes...ones I hope you dont make. But even with my mistakes, and starting divorce proceedings, and OM with her in her apartment fulltime...the truth eventually brought the fantasyworld crashing down. And at the same time, Mortarman is a much better man, father, and even husband because of what I have learned. I have taken care of three small children over the last 10 months BY MYSELF! I never thought I would make it. But I did. so, get with the program and get things started so you can get this over with as soon as possible. I still want to warn you though...this is not a sprint...it is a marathon. the fog will not go away overnight, and things may get worse before they get better. be smart...get smart. Be prepared for what she is going to do (call Steve or Jennifer harley and start counseling with them...they will tell you what to expect and have you prepared). Read Surviving an Affair. Come here to vent and get help. but with your wife, keep your game-face on. And you will be one of the 97% that go through this, and still find their marriage in the end.

"the OM is leaving his wife at same time.. the first chance they have to be alone.. he will be in her bed and all hope will be lost.." Again, not true! Sure, he will have her alone. But guess what? Once that happens, fantasy time is OVER! Now, they have to deal in reality. And the reality is that your wife is NOT his wife. Your wife will do things that piss him off because they are different than the way that his wife does them. While your wife is perfect for you, she is not perfect for the OM. One thing that woke my wife up was when she got to see OM around his ex-wife for the first time. She saw that the OM was STILL, two years after the divorce, not over his wife. That was HUGE for her. Remember, your wife will have to deal with the OM's connection to his wife and family. That will be a constant irritation to her. As will be your interaction with your wife an irritation to the OM. And if you can keep from LBing, after a little while, she will come to want to be around you (of course, she will say it is for the sake of the child...dont believe her...she WANTS to be around you). And as she feels comfortable around you and spends this family time, the OM will get jealous, which will further damage the relationship. Remember, he is hooked up with an adulteress. If she will do it with him, she will do it to him. And she might do it with you. And that will constantly scare him. And the reverse will happen for your wife with the OM and his wife. So, start getting smarter and get a gameplan together. Look at this as a ballgame where you already know the final score. Now, depending on how you play the game will depend on how long it lasts. This will not be a short fight. She wont move out and be home in a week. Stop looking at the calendar. start getting smarter and look at each day as a day to get better. And if she isnt home tomorrow, that just means that you will be that much better a Marathonman when she does come home.


"all I can do Is to show her I love her and hope that by Tuesday when we goe to mediation, she will have her eyes open and willing to give it a shot.." Get it through your skull...dont worry about Tuesday, or next month, or this summer, etc. Only God knows how long this will take for her. As the Harleys state, this will have to run its course. You cannot speed it up, but you can certainly slow it down!

"but she keeps telling me its over, its over ..and that why dont I accept it!!" So dont accept it! Look, she is in the fog. She is talkign psycho babble, and nothing will make sense. She will describe your history together in a way that you will not recognize (the fog causes distorts history in their brains). She HAS TO do this. Otherwise, what she is doing could not happen. But like I said, truth has a funny way of hanging out and causing problems for WSs. So, dont accept it. Try to understand that she is under the influence of fog. If she were drunk and said some weird things, would you take them seriously? Well, dont take this seriously. My wife told me a 1000 times it was over, to get on with my life, to go ahead and divorce her, that she was moving out and would never be back. Well, guess what? Seven months after moving out, her and I today are going to meet this afternoon in order to map out her moving home next week while she is on spring break (she is in nursing school). Read, read, read. Go and read my posts and what everyone has said. Read other posts on here and watch the transformation over time. Don't concentrate on the people here that are in the same boat you are in. Look at those like me that are further down the road, and then look what we went through. And descide if that is what you want to do. You don't have to accept this. You can walk away and just say the heck with it. You can try to fight this, and lose out anyway. Or, you can fight this the way that others have learned is the best way to confront affairs and the Fog. You don't have to be a doormat, and you do not have to sit back and accept this. If you want your marriage, then stay married. Act like you are married. Treat your wife like your wife, not like a wayward wife. So, when she begins to have the fog clear, then she will see what she has (the OM) and what she lost (YOU), and at that time will be the point to make your move.

"I have to get into her heart..and strt it beating for me again.. this is the last ditch effort I'm going to make this weekend the best ever, come H... or high water.. But agai, I think it is all hopeless..." Stop this. In the longterm, this weekend, next week, etc mean nothing. If she goes and moves, and signs separation papers, and moves the OM in over the next three weeks, it still means nothing. Your marriage cannot get any worse. But it is not hopeless. I felt the same way. You just have to get smart, to learn to do things the right way through this, instead of going with your gut. People in Fog Land do not react well to what we normally think would be good. You have to learn how to deal with them where they are, if you want them to come out of it. And like all lies and fantasies, they will eventually come crashing down.

In His arms.

marathonman:

First: It is NOT hopeless. NOT hopeless, get that??? You're too caught up in the now and trying to figure out what SHE'S thinking and doing to be able to see it at this point, but you WILL get there. You HAVE to. You have NO ALTERNATIVES but to solve this problem. And by solving the problem, I mean, FOCUS ON YOU AND YOUR GIRLS. Stop trying to figure out what she's thinking or how you can help her to love you again. Right now, you CAN'T. Accept that. It could change, but only if you do the RIGHT THINGS NOW.

"again where she had told me the OM was her best friend for the past several years...it only goes to show that she is ready to move on.."

For perspective... ..what's "several years?" My W knew her OM since the late 80s. Their first A started 12 years ago. She never left, probably because I didn't find out until after she "ended" her A a year and a half ago. It's been a hard road for me, but like you, it's one that I absolutely HAVE TO travel, whether we stay together or not.

Get a grip, and keep posting. You will survive this.
-Qfwfq

Mortarman:

We posted at the same time.

...Eloquent post!!!!

Listen to him, marathonman! You can DO THIS!

-Qfwfq

Thanks Q!!

Marathonman...Q has been here for awhile and has heard me say the same things you have been. I might just go back and cut and paste what he and others said to me, rather than write my own stuff here. If you keep on this path, I can predict how you will handle things...badly! But if you will learn and listen from those that have been through this, you just might do better than we did.

In His arms.