I figured that it had been hanging out in the dress shop for too many years so I decided to pick it up. I didn't have the heart to look at it, but at some point, I'm sure that I will try it on just to remember what it was that made me select this particular gown.

My plan is to put it on consignment with the rest of the ensemble. I'm also thinking about trading in my engagement ring for something else....I'm not a big jewlery person so I'm not sure what I will buy in it's place......

All of this is making me VERY sad. A small part of me wants to just leave the dress in X's closet so he can see what we lost as clearly as me....I'm really hating the choices that I've made.

In the most vulnerable places of my heart, I am crying because I want so much to erase all of the darkness that I brought into everyone's life. I want so much to be able to show X the real me. I know that if I could, he would be able to believe in me again.

Hang in there Kily. the one thing I have learned through all of this is that God does have a plan through all of this, if you will just trust Him. Maybe it is your X, maybe not. As you know with my situation, it wasnt until I reached the point of TRULY trusting Him and getting out of His way, that things changed with my wife and I. But I had to get to the point of saying "His will." Once I did, and I could accept either outcome, only then did I find peace, and only then was I able to get out of His way and the miracle that is happening in our lives able to come about.

I will continue to pray for you and your X. All things are possible for those that love the Lord. for the first ime in my life, I thing I truly understand that.

In His Arms.

Dear Kily

I KNOW!!!!! Some days I can feel quite strong and positve and accept the current situation and that I will not be able to restore my M, other days (like my birthday), I miss H, his friendship, how he would spoil me and care for me, and I think "What an earth did I do? How could I possibly have become that person"

I think I take heart in knowing that my bad days are becoming fewer and far between - they really used to be pretty much every day for many months. You have come such a long way and if your XBF doesn't want to join you on your journey, it is sadly his loss.

Take care Kily, keep your chin up.

Thinking of you and wishing you well from London.

Lisa

As far as the dress, and the ring, put the dress in consignment shop, and the ring, you could always have the ring, redone. Have the diamong taken out, and they can remelt the gold and design a new ring with the diamond, and maybe put your birthstone in it, or something that is totally different.

That is what I am going to do. I have a cousin that works in a jewelry store. I am going to have a different ring made out of my wedding ring. Also, out of the trash that someone had thrown bags and boxes about 50 feet long, it took me 5 van loads to load it up all the bags and boxes, I found an old braceletin one of the bags, that I had appraised. It is worth about 1/2 carat diamonds. It has tiny diamonds in the bracelet, and I am going to incorporate these tiny diamonds, with the diamond of my wedding band into a beautiful ring. They said the diamonds being so tiny would make a beautiful ring.

I wouldn't put the dress for your other half to see. He really doesn't see the dress at all. So get some money out of it, and put the money to good use in pleasure or bills.

Get on with your life, if he comes aroundhe will, and if he doesn't, you are better off. I know this sounds harsh, but that is my reality. I am moving on, and my divorce will be over by the end of next week. I don't like the divorce, is not what I wanted, is not what God wanted. But is what is happening. I have to move on, and that I am.

This is all that you can do. You can't keep him if he is going to be the epitamy of woe is me. So move on, and live a wonderful life with someone else.

I will never marry again, so I am looking at life as a single woman the rest of my life. Cause God does not allow me to marry anyone but my husband. I know my husband will remarry, he doesn't have the christian belief, and has already decided to have sex within our marriage. So it doesn't make any difference to him. But he iwll get his consequences at the end of his life. Just a little thought from me.

Kily,
Keep your head up and stay strong. You are encountering many triggers right now and they are bound to get you down. More than likely this will not be your worst day, you will have others. But, remember that what you are doing is best for you and your son.

I'm sorry but I don't have any words of wisdom on how to get past the bad days, other than they will pass eventually. For me it took going on 2 AD's to even out my moods and be able to begin to be my old self again. Yes, I still have bad days, we all do. But with the help of the Lord and the little pills I am much better now.

You are questioning yourself and your X. I'm quite sure this is normal. But, remember there is nothing you can do to change him, only try to make yourself happy and see what happens.

God Bless, my prayers are with you.

Hi Guys-

Thanks for the support. I'm finding it hard thesae days even though I know that there is NO other solution than to move on.

I'm stuck in this place of wanting to better that R and it makes me angry that I am holding myself here. After all, I TURNED to someone else. I made the choice to let someone else enter my life. Shouldn't I be happy that he has been able to move on and let go of the life we shared?

Why does it bother me so much to realize that I don't mean anything to him anymore. Why is his opinion of me so necessary in my life? Why is HE so important when he hasn't had any interest in me for quite some time. Why am I so pathetic that I sit and pray every day for something that will never be. The "R" wasn't working and seemed to be VERY bad for both of us towards the end so why is it still dwelling for me?

When is this situation going to lose it's hold over me? I'm such an emotional mess today - what the he!! is wrong with me?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Why am I so pathetic that I sit and pray every day for something that will never be. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I could be wrong, but if your still praying for it to work that may be the problem. You gave me some advise a while back and I'll give it back to you now because it was (and still is) good advise. You have to pray "God's will be done". I can't explain it Kily, but when I started praying (and truly believing and feeling that way) His will be done things started to change.

Now you know better than anyone that it's not peaches and creme, or even close. But, since I turned it over to God and quit trying to control it I have found peace, been happier and she has seemed to soften a little. You have to trust Him that he has a plan for you and you have no idea what it is. I know that's easier said than done, but I've found that it's working for me.

I think maybe your scared right now, that's why your hanging on. This is a huge step your taking and you have been together for so long. Now your looking at all the good things and not paying so much attention to the bad things. Just pray and stay strong.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When is this situation going to lose it's hold over me? I'm such an emotional mess today - what the he!! is wrong with me?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kily maybe you are letting the engineer inside of you dictate an unrealistic timetable for your moving on. Everybody is different, and some people will move on much slower than others, but it's not because they are somehow deficient. We all heal at different rates so cut yourself some emotional slack (you'd do it for a loved one, wouldn't you?).

What's wrong with you? Nothing. You are a human being experiencing human pain. But remember that most pain doesn't last forever.

Take care.

<small>[ March 06, 2003, 09:48 AM: Message edited by: 2MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Faith4Me: Please post back and let me know how you want to converse because I was somewhat worried about your post here about being a Christian and not being able to remarry. I too had the same beliefs but have spent the last year researching and praying and found this not to be the case in certain circumstances. Anyway, we can have this discussion via email, or we can have it on here (I will start a new thread...sorry for the thread-jack here Kily!) so everyone can join in and/or benefit from this. I will post my email address on the new thread if you want to do this. let me know!

In His arms.

<small>[ March 06, 2003, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Hi Guys-

Thanks for the emotional support.

TM- I really said that? Gosh, I guess I should practice what I preach.... You're right. I am praying for the wrong things. I think I should be praying for peace for all of us.

Coffeman-
Yup, you seem to know me well. I can intellectually explain anything and use logic to solve many problems. My emotions have always been the exception and although logically it makes sense to let go, emotionally, I am NOT 100% convinced. It is a hard struggle. Some days are better than others.

MM-
You've truly demonstrated to me what faith can do. I DO believe that my trust in that has helped me to grow more than I ever thought possible. Sometimes though, the darkness lingers and it's hard to believe that it will eventually turn bright again. Thanks for being strong in your own faith, You've inspired a lot of us.

The last comment I want to make is that it is still a hard situation to be in. No matter how different I am, I have been judged and convicted by X. It hurts me that he still views me as a "fence sitter" (his own words) because I see this as a dismissal of my feelings and decision making process.

When it comes to major decisions in my life, I do take much time and try to weigh all of the effects that I will have on other people and I try to weigh the importance of that vs. what I am about to partake on. For me, it hurts that I am being condemned for that. Is it wrong to not want to hurt people, especially after all of the pain and destruction that has transpired to past decisions? Should I not care and just do what I want regardless of how it impacts others?

I suppose I shouldn't value his comments at all considering that he doesn't hold any respect for me any longer. I guess in time this will diminish too. It's sad to think that I STILL would do anything to prove to him that I wanted this to work so badly.

Hi Kily,
You have been given lots of good advice and you have made lots of progress - perhaps it would help you to see how far you have come.

The last comment I want to make is that it is still a hard situation to be in. No matter how different I am, I have been judged and convicted by X. It hurts me that he still views me as a "fence sitter" (his own words) because I see this as a dismissal of my feelings and decision making process.
It looks to me like you are trying to apply your value system to his judgments of you. Once you caused a problem. You have spent much time and effort trying to repair the damage. Not only doe it seem you can't fix it, he won't recognize your efforts. It's not that you didn't put in the proper effort, it's that he has problems now that prevent reconciliation. This part is his problem, both failing to respond, and failing to give you credit. I believe you are taking his problem now and making it yours - thinking that if you do this somehow you can make things better again. Guilt tends to do that, but I can't see it working without effort from him.

When it comes to major decisions in my life, I do take much time and try to weigh all of the effects that I will have on other people and I try to weigh the importance of that vs. what I am about to partake on. For me, it hurts that I am being condemned for that. Is it wrong to not want to hurt people, especially after all of the pain and destruction that has transpired to past decisions?
When a person repents, (IMHO) they do all that they can to right whatever wrong they committed. Your heart is changed, his has not. Seemingly he has learned little or nothing from this whole experience. That is so sad. He contributed a great deal of problems to the relationship and I can't see that he will ever be able to heal unless he also repents and changes. From here there is no sign of that happening.

Should I not care and just do what I want regardless of how it impacts others? I suppose I shouldn't value his comments at all considering that he doesn't hold any respect for me any longer.
You will continue to listen, and examine what he says because others feelings are important to you. You care. I feel what you need to do is examine what he is saying in light of the facts each time, and discard what is not true. I believe you now have the tools to do that properly.

I guess in time this will diminish too. It's sad to think that I STILL would do anything to prove to him that I wanted this to work so badly.
It will diminish, because you will learn to separate truth from error, and only respond to things that are real and can be worked on. I am glad you still want to prove you want it to work, as I said, I believe this means your remorse is real, your improvement sure.

Kily,
I think JL has said most of this, or all of this before - better than I can. You have learned what you could learn from this, done what you could do. Now it's his turn. If you are still not ready to go out and look around, don't. You have children to teach, you have other goals to reach. Once you said you were sure someday you and he would be back together. Perhaps that is still to be, but you need to change your methods.

When you try something over and over and it doesn't work, don't be afraid to try something else.
Perhaps it is time for plan B, or at least a 180. I really can't tell you what would work, or if anything will., but I can tell you that I believe you have done your part. I realize that with what is in your heart, that is not enough.

Kily, it's time to do something different. I would like you to look at all the data you have and tell us what that will be.

In the meantime I wish that pain in your heart could be healed. I'm still praying for you.

SS

PS, you are a great help to others, keep it up.

<small>[ March 07, 2003, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi SS-
Thanks for the reality check.

I believe you are taking his problem now and making it yours - thinking that if you do this somehow you can make things better again. Guilt tends to do that, but I can't see it working without effort from him.
I see your point. I thought I was through with the "guilt" phase. I know that it is part of my make up to feel guilty even when I don't own the responsibility. Perhaps that is what I'm doing now. The plain facts are that he wants a life without me in it. I accept that even though I don't want to.

When a person repents, (IMHO) they do all that they can to right whatever wrong they committed. Your heart is changed, his has not. Seemingly he has learned little or nothing from this whole experience. That is so sad. He contributed a great deal of problems to the relationship and I can't see that he will ever be able to heal unless he also repents and changes. From here there is no sign of that happening.

It is true that my heart has changed. I do believe his has as well, but for him, his pain was too deep. He will never allow the potential of that to ever to touch him again. Unfortunately, he equates me with pain now so no matter what changes I have made, the associatiion will never be removed. I think that his "R" with this woman removed much of the surface pain for him and at this point in his life, he beleives that no pain = no internal issues on his end. Sadly, this is running away in the same manner that I did. The pain is STILL there and will just fester.

You will continue to listen, and examine what he says because others feelings are important to you. You care. I feel what you need to do is examine what he is saying in light of the facts each time, and discard what is not true. I believe you now have the tools to do that properly.

Again, you've nailed it right on the head. This is one of the strengths that I've developed through all of this. It's part of the self esteem building that I need to continue to work on. The tools are there, it just takes time to implement them consistently.

It will diminish, because you will learn to separate truth from error, and only respond to things that are real and can be worked on. I am glad yostill want to prove you want it to work, as I said, I believe this means your remorse is real, your improvement sure.

I do believe this, but it is still hard to go through the learning process. Yes, my remorse goes way beyond what I show here on the boards. I see how I've taught my children to quit when things were hard, give up on the ones you love, and to run away from feelings. My youngest has plenty of ANGER issues and will forever be affeacted by the choices that I made. I see the effect that my actions had on everyone. I can think of at least 50 people, without even struggling, that have been impacted by this situation. It is so sad....

It's time to do something different. I would like you to look at all the data you have and tell us what that will be.

SS-
I've thought long and hard about this question. Truthfully, a 180 would be a deception and lying is partly why I found myself in this situation. If I can't be honest and be loved for who I truly am, what is the point? I've been PLAN-Bing without the letter- as much as I can. Unfortunately, we still have to be in contact for DS's sake, but I try to limit this as much as I can. It seems that my avoidance of him does trouble X a bit, and when asked, I tell him that it is too painful for me to be around him. I'm clear with my views about the situation and I believe that I convey to him that I am trying to respect his choices.
What I find interesting is that he suddenly seems less angry at me. For the first time in over a month we actually had a conversation. I asked how his parents were and he told me that they are still hurting from all of this. I told him that we all were and that I was really stupid during all of this. I know that the regret and pain in my voice was clear, but I couldn't look at him when we talked about his parents. I had to walk away because i didn't want to show him the tears that had formed in my eyes while I was talking. He knows that I can't change this....why continue to inform me of the pain they have. I already know and expressed a desire to apologize to them. He wanted no part of that.

He also asked me if OM and I were ever goping to hook up again. I informed him that I wasn't interested in a realtionship with anyone at this point in my life. The "R" that I had with OM was unfinished business in my life from my childhood. It's run the course and I have closure.
Later that day, he picked DS up from my house and shoveled the front walkway for me. He also GAVE me a shovel that he had in the car because mine busted. I didn't know what to say other than - "Thanks, things are hard for me right now, and I really appreciate this." He said "I know." thten he asked if there was anything else that I needed from him before he left. I said no but thanks. I was really touched that he wanted to help me. I'm just not sure what to think. I'm just trying to stay grateful and not read into it at all.

So my plan is this - I will continue to do what I am doing today. Plan-B with no expectations. Just to continue to try and learn as much as I can about me. Let go of any hopes of having a relationship with him. Focus on getting some help for my Ds and to be a better parent to my kids than I have been in my past. Make a comittment to being more present in my relationships with my kids, and be honest to them about everything. Be loving to myself and learn to accept that it is okay to make mistakes and to need help once in a while. Be accepting of the person that X is and the choices that he's made. Try to be there as a friend but establish boundaries that are safe for me emotionally. Continue to work on the degree, and look for a more suitable employment position. Concentrate on paying the bills and resolving thr house and custody issues. Mainly, continue to get to know myself and love myself. Let God lead the way....

As for helping others, I view it as therapy for me. Each time I see a positive effect that my words bring to someone, I see 50 people that I don't know, affected by that postive. In some ways I like to believe that it balances the 50 people that I caused so much pain for. It also validates for me the views that I have developed through all of this. Mortarman's story in particular is one that really allowed me to see how important it is to share your own story with others. Even if my relationship with x remains as it is, I know that my experience has given someone else an opportunity to open up to something that they might not have considered before...

Thanks for your caring. your words meant the world to me.

By the way, I tried on the dress. I forgot just how beautiful it was. I decided that I DESERVE to wear it someday so I am storing it for that time. I didn't buy that dress for X, I bought it for me. He will be missing something spectacular on the day that I finally wear it! It still fit after all that time too!

Kily,
You sound like your back on track again. Your plan sounds well thought out and attainable. Your strength and determination are unbelievable, I only hope when I reach your point I will have the same strength you are displaying today.

================================================
but for him, his pain was too deep. He will never allow the potential of that to ever to touch him again.
================================================
This is how I feel right now. I cannot imagine letting ANYONE close enough to me to hurt me in this way ever again. Kily, I don't say this to be mean or spiteful, I say it because I can relate. Do I think this will last forever? No, I'm sure it wouldn't, if it did we would be a very sad, angry and hurtfull world.

=================================================
Unfortunately, he equates me with pain now so no matter what changes I have made, the associatiion will never be removed. Sadly, this is running away . The pain is STILL there and will just fester. ==================================================
Unfortunately, this is how my wife feels about me. Well, at least that is how I believe she thinks about me. She is associating me with pain, therefore if she runs away from me the pain will magically disappear.

Everyone must face their demons at some point or another. You and I have chosen, or been forced to, face ours now. When they face theirs is their choice, unfortunately we cannot help them until they want help.

Kily, I'll say it again. You are strong, you are an inspiration and most of all you are human. You will make mistakes as we all do, but as long as you seek forgiveness, and forgive yourself you will triumph in the end.

<small>[ March 11, 2003, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: TM94 ]</small>

Kily,

How are the plans to finish the education coming? I haven't gotten any emails about thermo and E&M, so was wondering if you did indeed take those classes this semester.

Kily, don't be so sad. You are doing very well, and you will make a lot more than 50 people happy in your life. Just give it time.

You mentioned X's parents. Is it possible to at least write them a letter letting them know how you feel about all of this and apologizing? I think that might be a good idea. You need to realize that your X has no say in your life and certainly not in you doing the RIGHT things. Something to think about.

God Bless,

JL

((((((( kily )))))))

I cannot offer any words of wisdom or comfort... just hugs.

Take care,
Karen

Hi All

TM-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is how I feel right now. I cannot imagine letting ANYONE close enough to me to hurt me in this way ever again. Kily, I don't say this to be mean or spiteful, I say it because I can relate. Do I think this will last forever? No, I'm sure it wouldn't, if it did we would be a very sad, angry and hurtfull world. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is part of what is confusing me. I am feeling similarly myself. That is why I'm having SUCH a hard time understandung this engagement with his GF. Maybe I'm just being judgemental because I don't want to accept that this is his future.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Unfortunately, this is how my wife feels about me. Well, at least that is how I believe she thinks about me. She is associating me with pain, therefore if she runs away from me the pain will magically disappear. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WE both know that this WILL change. When it does, you will have to make a choice on whether you are willing to take the risk of trusting that she can be better than the person that you married.

You just have to keep focusing on you....the rest is up to her.

JL-

Yes, I'm working very hard in both courses. I actually have a study group that I attend regularly to help me out. I'm not ace-ing the courses, but I'm getting by fairly well. Things at my company aren't improving so it looks as if a layoff might happen at the beginning of April. My plan is to graduate in May 2004 and I am COMMITTED to finishing in that timeline. I'm considering going on to a Master's degree. I don;t think it will be in engineering though. I would like to work in the medical field at some point. Perhaps even become a LMFT. I think that with all of my life experience that this might be a real opportunity to help others.

I really do want to send his parents a letter but I don't want to cause them more pain. There is a language barrier as well so I would have to find someone that could translate it into Polish. From what X has told me, his mother took this really hard. She seems to think that I have NO feelings towards them. I can't express to her just how wrong that point of view is. I will write the letter and post it here first for all of you to review and give me an opinion on. I'm also struggling with sending X a plan-B letter too. I've been practicing plan-b and verbally stated my feelings, but I think that a letter might also help. It's hard to know what is right and what is wrong these days.

Topie-
I've been thinking of you. I really admire you for holding it togethre with all that you have been going through. You are such a strong woman and it means a lot to me that I am in your thoughts too...

Thanks.

Just a quick vent-

My Os's grandmother is suffering from Bcancer. Currently she is under chemo and will continue with Radiation. I mentioned this to X over the weekend. Today I received a call from grandma. She was letting me know that X sent her a card! He never even met this woman. Am I wrong to make this about me and feel a little anger? Granted it was a VERY nice gesture. I appreciate that he was reaching out to her. I guess I just feel as if it was a manipulation to stick it to me one more time... I feel awful for thinking this.

I guess it is just touching on this letting go issue. It seems like he is starting to do little things for me again and I'm trying NOT to see this as anything but a good deed. His actions are really confusing me though.