Once I started the divorce proceedings, she says she found God and wants to try and will do anything to keep the family together. Sounds great, right? Only problem is that I have heard this same story 4 other times. Each time she gets caught, she apologizes, says it will never happen again and how she knows it was a mistake and she is on the right track now. Only problem is that it has never stopped. Now that she is between boyfriends and the divorce is going... she says it is for real this time and that I am a [censored] for not trying one more time.

She clearly has no respect for me and that is why I tell her I cannot try again and expect a new result from the same old tired story. At some point you just have to say enough of my life getting ruined and feeling disrespected 24/7. What do you feel are the signs (generally) of enough is enough in this kind of situation??

Thanks for your thoughts.

Conan

Conan,
The words aren't enough, they have to be followed up by actions.

What do you think would persuade you?

My H & I separated & reconciled 6 times, and some of those times he said he'd changed (#6 for sure), other times, he just happened to start living at home. In #7 I found more EA contact was taking place and I'd had it. I served the D papers, and like you, he said he could/would/was in the midst of change. I didn't believe him. There was no promise, vow, word, expression he hadn't given me in at least one of the previous reconcilations that he hadn't broken.

In one we'd even had a written contract. All broken.

Even as I went forward with the D in a 60 no fault state, he did make changes.
-He went alone to our counselor (I wouldn't go anymore).
-He gave me email & voice mail passwords
-He stopped going to bars
-He went to a weekly men's Bible study
-He was accountable to me, even if I didn't ask.
-He found Christian men for accountability partners.
-He treated me with love and respect even though I wasn't doing what he wanted (that [censored] comment of hers?)
-He did this consistantly for months, his own Plan A.

3-4 months later, I decided it was worth the chance, that I would wonder if I didn't give him one last chance. Honestly, my expectations were pretty low.

That was 5/00 and we are doing great.

But...he proved his changes consistantly over a period of months prior to the reconcilation.

And for me, at that point, that was what he had to do.

What is your wife willing to do? What is her "on the right track" like?

I know I felt that if my H couldn't behave on his own, there wasn't any reason to let him come home again. Being home after the separations hadn't been enough to keep him on the straight & narrow. He had to decide it for himself and do it.

I feel repeat waywardness after the apologies and saying the A was ended is some degrees different from first discovery and even different from ongoing affair and requires different solutions.

"I am a [censored] for not trying one more time."

What a sweetheart! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

This is not the voice of someone willing to work on a marriage.

I would have walked out of the room at this point.

There is no humility, repentence or self-evaluation going on here.

"and how she knows it was a mistake and she is on the right path now." .... calling you a [censored] if you don't do what she wants is the "right path" .... ? Whatever <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Wow Lor... great response, thanks!

What you said was exactly what I was thinking and had said to WW. She has only been on this "new track" for a couple weeks. I really found it interesting that when she pressed me hard again last night to reconsider the D and I gently refused... she got very hostile and went back to her ways of telling me I was "not even a human being" because I didn't feel any emotion and care to try again. I noted to her how she had very quickly gone back to treating me with no respect as soon as she thought she was not getting what she wanted. I said that if she had truly changed that I was happy about it and she would lead this new life regardless of our marital situation.

What you noted happening in your life is spot on what I would need to see. She has done none of it. She says she "considers doing it" if I agree to try again.

Lor, I am sorry that we share a similar painful past, but happy to hear you have got things going so well now. Thanks for staying around and helping people like me.

Conan

Thanks for your thoughts Pep! I feel she did me a favor by getting mad at me and showing me her "wonderful" true colors.

I so wish things were different, but I know that wishing and hoping will not change reality.

Conan!!!

Long time no news!!!

Could you give us something of a history? I see it's been since May last year that you posted here. As I recall, last time we talked (I was "2long" at the time), you didn't know if you could hang on any longer.

Sounds like it's been a tough 9 months for you. Can she be sincere this time? Sure, but it will be harder for her to prove that to you. Is she willing to make that effort? What do YOU need in order to believe her this time? Counseling? (don't remember if you ever had any). Separation until she can prove she "wakes up?" Or are you just tired of it? And if you are, just don't forget that you still have work to do to be certain that something like this doesn't happen again in a future relationship.

Please update us!

Best regards,
?Qfwfq

Hey 2long!! What is the deal with the new name?! I was hoping to see you around.

Wow, 9 months ago seems like a lifetime. We finished new house and moved in. Then I found out (3rd time in the year) that see was keeping contact with OM but he had a new baby and WW was finally through with him. Very weird scene. A month later she tells me she wants out for good. I later find out there is a new guy already in the picture and she has torrid sexual relationship with him for a couple months and then it goes on for a couple more months until ending in February 2003. Then wife finds God and wants to try again with me after I tell her we are going ahead with the D she wanted to start 4 months earlier. That's about it... same old, same old!!!

How about you buddy? Are things better? I hope so.

Conan

Conan:

I changed my name a few months ago because I wanted my W to be able to come here and read how I'm doing without being put off by my early, sometimes mean posts (or the replies thereto). Turned out she isn't interested. Yet, at any rate.

I've got an active thread describing how things are going lately, also here on GQII. To make a long story short, though. We've agreed to "stay together to see if we have a future together" my W doesn't want a H, but doesn't mind calling me "spouse." She's still in contact with RM, but hasn't seen him in a year and a half (he consults for her). This working relationship is very stressful for her, and she's making mistakes (my W is VERY organized most of the time). I'm being as supportive as I can, and so we continue to make slow progress.

I can't remember the last time my W called me something like "[censored]" but she has done that (or names like that) in the past. Not even that long ago. I don't exactly write those comments off, mind you, but I do try to put them into perspective. That's been paying off for me. Again, slOOwly.

I hope Hope4future comes on here and gives you some pointers. She was close to DV when she "woke up" and really started to work on the M. She's recovered nicely now, and has one helluva head on her shoulders. I'd be interested in hearing what she has to say about your sitch.

All my best,
♥Qfwfq

I will check out your thread (now that I know it you... LOL).

Names don't bug me really. I am bothered more when she says I am not a human being because i don't have emotions. That is BS!! I told her that maybe she likes to think that I don't have emotions and that makes it easier for her to do hurtful things with no remorse. I reminded her of when I cried like a baby in front of her many times. I don't trust her to do that anymore. She took my hurt and multiplied it, regardless of what emotion I showed in front of her. Only her emotions are real to her... the narcissistic personality of hers displays itself in so many ways. I pray for an end to this hell.

Conan,

she says she found God

she got very hostile and went back to her ways of telling me I was "not even a human being" because I didn't feel any emotion and care to try again.

God wasn't lost <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I said that if she had truly changed that I was happy about it and she would lead this new life regardless of our marital situation </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly. If she is sincere in faith...she'll be seeking God more than she is seeking her marriage. Your marriage will be among the things that she puts as priority as God changes her heart. If she gets right with God, you probably would have far fewer problems with her.

So it sounds like the "new track" has been since the Feb break up. Is she going to church? Bibles laying around at home? If she's got a Bible with post-it notes or a highlighter or a notebook or a study book next to it, those are pretty good clues that maybe God is in the new track.

A new track isn't necessarily a good or improved track. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

When words & actions are in conflict, believe the action. And, if she's calling you a [censored], I'm not sure she's exhibiting much of a conflict.

Well, well, well...if it isn't "The Barbarian" himself!

Nice to hear from you again, Conan, we've wondered about you many, many times...

Sorry to hear things have not changed in Conan-land. As for me, I filed for divorce in early February, and it looks like it's curtains...but one never predicts the future, right?

Stick around; there are many here who can offer sage advice and support.

Whoa Space!!! First 2long and now you!! You guys are rocks!!

Sorry to hear we are in the same boat. I think we think the same to. I had thought to myself that if my WW had really changed I would see it even in a divorce. I even said to my friend the other day... hey, if she really changes we could always get remarried again!! LOL But you know... it's true.

I am going to have to read up on you more.

Lor, good words again, thanks! I agree completely. Funny thing... she was planning on going to a divorce group at our church tonight, but called to let me know she was not going after the talk we had last night. Very weird and very informative. If she doesn't change my mind, then she isn't changing... hmmmm....

Conan:

"Whoa Space!!! First 2long and now you!! You guys are rocks!!"

Not really, just stoned! ...all seriousness aside, that is.

Actually, I hear tell that SC "does" lemonade these days. That's sad, as I was hoping to partake of a few amber nectars with him week after next when I'm in Houston... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-Qfwfq

"Rocks"! LOL!!!
I think my shrink called it "masochist" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

But I agree, we can ALWAYS re-marry...I'll even play hard to get! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I meant to say you guys have rocks in your heads! LOL

That is what we all have in common!!!

This from Still Seeking in another thread was so perfect for my problem I had to copy it to this thread for my own benefit:

If I questions things she gets very upset.

She says she will do anything to make it work.

I believe if she wants it to work, she has got to start being an open book. Account for every second of her time, never change her plans on the spur of the moment. These two statements of yours conflict. If she really is willing, she should act like it. I think she is holding back. It's what she does, ( gets angry when you question her) more than what she says ( I am willing to do anything) that shows me that she is not really willing yet. I am afraid after all you have been through that it may best to say " when you are willing to give full disclosure, let me know, otherwise, it looks like just talk. I need your actions to match what you say."

I don't believe after all this that you should reconcile unless she can show with all her heart that she wants things to work. Holding back doesn't do this for you. I would also wonder if I had the full truth. I don't know how you can verify this part, but after so many problems, you must have a hard time trusting her. Perhaps she can be the one to come up with a way to verify so that you will be happy. She created the problem, and if she wants it fixed, she should be doing the work to restore trust. It won't happen overnight, that is something both of you need to understand. She must earn it back over time by what she does daily.

I hope you can both come up with a plan you can both be happy about. That's what it will take.

SS

Wise words SS!!!

I can't remember which thread that was that SS posted to. I remember reading it, though.

Something to think about though: My W has never said "I'll do anything" or "whatever it takes" and she's definitely NOT offered to be an "open book" to me, particularly when I suggested something like that several months ago. Does that mean that there's no hope for us? I don't think so. In a strange way, or in her own way perhaps, she's being HONEST with me by NOT saying things or promising things that she doesn't currently believe she can carry through to actions.

I think recovery is much slower this way, but it's still possible. And you know ol' 2long: I would NEVER have said I could hang on this long last May when we last talked. But I've learned a lot since then. And I've SEEN a lot of progress in HER, but it took me a long time (2long!) to be able to watch it with an objective eye and recognize it for what it is.

I don't know about your W, but I would agree that if there's hope at all, it's probably going to show itself as this DV proceeds. In any case, YOU have reason to hope for a better future. It can't get much worse, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

regards,
-Qfwfq

2long... it can always get worse!! LOL

However, I see the chances for my life getting better to be much greater than it getting worse.

You have a point about your W possibly being honest and that that is preferably to the dishaonesty I experience where she promises to do anything but never does. In fact, since the fallout the other night, she has grown nastier by the minute. See, it can get worse!! LOL

By the way, honesty is NOT everything. If I tell you I'm going to give you a diamond and instead put a lump of dog crap in your hand... that is dishonest and bad. However, if I tell you I'm going to put a lump of dog crap in your hand and then do it... I was honest but doesn't your hand still stink just as bad?!

Just a thought.

Conan:

Careful! I always wanted one of those baseball caps with the fake dog crap on the visor! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Would go well with the Converse All Stars, don't you think??

I realize it would stink, but the honesty would be better. Point being that my W isn't in a place where she feels she COULD make those promises, and I've only just recently been able to appreciate what she HAS been able to say AND do, precisely because they are honest, and so is she. And THAT is possible because honesty and secrecy are different animals. My W is secretive to some degree even now, but definitely not to such a harmful degree as a year ago.

-Qfwfq

Yea, who hasn't wanted one of those hats?! I could hang it next to my authentic mounted Jackalop (you know, the horned rabbit). LOL

You get what I mean though, right? Be cautious. I am not trying to piss in your cheerios. I am just saying don't get overjoyed by the idea that she is honest about not promising you a damn thing (i.e. the aforementioned lump of crap). I feel we all have a tendency to lower our standards to a crazy level due to what we have been put through. We end up buying into the fog and think things are "getting better".

I hope and pray for the best for you man.