I haven't posted for a few weeks but feel in need of MBer's input again.

H and I seem to be in a pattern where I LB big time, he gets cold and tells me how disappointed he is ,not angry just disappointed. We don't talk for a day and then I decide that I should continue Plan A and things improve again.

After 2 weeks ago when I tried to hit him when I had had a lot to drink and watched our wedding video, I followed this pattern. Then last weekend, I made him a nice meal on Sat evening and he complimented me on it a lot. I was feeling stressed as that following week he was going to be away for 2 nights in OW territory. The next morning I got up,H brought me a cup of tea and offered to make breakfast. There was a photo in the paper of a model who looked quite large compared to usual. I commented that she was overweight, H looked and said that she was "how a woman should look" . I felt very hurt as I am quite slim and what is more I have lost a stone since the first D day that I had retained post baby. So, after a few minutes, i blew my stack.....I can't even remember what I said but I just felt I had reached a point where enough was enough. And told him so. Well the day ended up being fraught. I said a few harsh things about how I felt he was holding me back, just as my mother had done. We went on /off all day. H went to work for a few hours in late afternoon and didn't get home til 8pm when the children and I had eaten and they were ready for bed. I had kept him some food and heated it for him then went to work in the study, he worked in the kitchen. At bedtime I said goodnight, no attempt to talk. He called me back and said" I don't understand what has happened here today". I just said ." I've had enough" and went to have a bath.

Well, to my surprise he followed me up, wanted to talk, so,reluctantly at first, we did. I told him how I was questioning our future together, that I had self esteem issues that i thought were related to his treatment of me....He apologised genuinely at one stage for " being a bad husband to you". I said"sarcasm won't help" and he said no, he meant it.

I asked him if he loves OW and he said he didn't know. Then he said after a pause that he didn't know if he loved her or the idea of her. Then he said maybe he needed to spend a few days with her to decide. I didn't answer that at all. I asked him what he gets from OW . He wasn't sure , says then he enjoys talking to her, he has never talked to me because I am not interested and wouldn't understand. I said," oh so are you saying OW is more intelligent?". He said yes. So I , feeling hurt, say, " ok i am starting to feel hurt again so I am going to stop this discussion right now". He goes off to sleep in spare room.Ten minutes later he reappears and says" I have to say this:it's not that she is more intelligent just that she knows more about this are and has taught me a lot" .By now its nearly 1am so I didn't want to talk anymore. He says he will sleep in spare room but stands by door lingering. So I said " do you want to sleep here tonight?" He said yes so I said ok then sleep here.So he did.
The next day (last Mon) he has phoned a few times, he wnet to his course on Tues and Wed and each time phoned me in the early evening and then at bedtime. Then on the way home on Thurs.
We had arranged to go out with some friends on the Wed and they couldn't make it so H was keen to go Thurs instead and we had already decided that as H was away then anyway(the Wed) we should go out Fri-H suggested a nice restaurant where we had been for his 40th and he knew I wanted to go again.
So we had 2 lovely evenings together, H was affectionate both in front of our friends and by ourselves. H complimented me on my looks too.
Sat evening just gone H left at midnight to drive to the airport 5 hours away. He is going skiing and there are a few talks so it is allowable as a conference. He could have gone up the night before but didn't .the airport is about half an hour's drive from where OW lives now so I did not want him to go up the night before. When he left he was v affectionate and drove off slowly ,making sure I could see him.

I meanwhile have the doubts creeping in. I am troubled as I have had a recurring thought that maybe I do need to move on, break free of H's influence. Then I realised that I have been very much thinking of myself as the victim, H as persecutor, and i have to acknowledge that that is not the case. I have to accept responsibility for the meltdown of our marriage as much as he does. And I do-but he won't so far. So do I really want to stick with this? I have started my IC with an analytical psychotherapist and am very excited about where I may go from here in terms of personal development.

And then yesterday evening checked out the Match.com website, did a search in my area, found someone I liked the look of, was tempted to make contact..... Didn't though and was a bit upset and confused by why I would.....

Sorry its a bit long. I would appreciate any thoughts,please. Does H want to work on our M? What will it take to make him decide for me? He is still likely in phone/email contact with OW.

Regards
Deluded

Hi Deluded

I have been wondering how you were, but knew you would be in touch directly if you needed to be. Sometimes, you need to live your life - whatever that may be or however it is going.

Why do you ask in your post heading "Is it too late?" Do you mean for yourself, because of the experience wanting to contact someone on the net?

If H is still in phone/e-mail contact with OW, it is possible that he would still have seen her. Irrespective or not of whether he has, it is just not acceptable to your M, neither will your M have any chance of survival. Your H is fence sitting/cake eating etc. and the cynical Lisa would say that he is doing all the nice stuff becaue he knows exactly what he is doing.

What do you want Deluded? Something has to change for your M to work, and I have always maintained that can only come from your H, when soemthing inside him clicks/switches etc. He needs to acknowledge that what he is doing is completely wrong and harmful, and work with you (and really it is probably too hard to do without) on MC. How long are you prepared to allow him to continue as he is? Did Steve H give you any sort of indiciation about Plan A timescale? What are you currently getting from your H? Is he meeting your needs?

I know there are a lot of questions here and I hope you don't find them too intrusive. I sometimes wish I could come along and really really really slap the WS around the head with a wet kipper. Not that I think it would do much good in some cases, but it might help <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Keep your chin up and wishing you well from North London (sunny today).

Lisa

P.S. I am hoping to make a trip to my Mum's soon.

Thanks Lisa.

I think it may be too late because I am able to contemplate separation as a viable alternative whereas previously I could not.

H still refuses counselling. He continues to seek to control me-by exploiting my fear of him leaving and never returning. I am sure he also controls OW-keeps her at arms length, uses excuses such as Mum's illness and death as a reason he cannot leave.

I wonder what would happen if we separated? would he realise that he doesn't want that,doesn't want to lose me and the girls, doesn't want OW anywhere other than a diversion?

Is he the kind of man who could swallow his pride and ask to come home? Would he be able to look at and work on his side of things? And understand that just because he contributed to the state of our marriage, doesn't mean he did it ON PURPOSE?

I don't care now if I ask him to leave that he will go to OW.I believe that the loss of his home, his children, his whole LIFE will hit home. Whether he can act on it or lose it? we'll see.

Rambling a bit this evening!

Deluded

Deluded

Sorry things are tough at the moment. It sounds as if your H is well and truly stuck on the fence, that all three of you are in a stalemate. He's probably hoping that either you or OW will make a move, making his decision for him. It doesn't sound as if he will make any kind of decisive move himself.

Take all the following with a pinch of salt; as John 39 always says, this is an amateur forum and the advice is not professional!

It seems to me that the danger is that you will 'explode' and do something permanently damaging. I wonder if there would be any value in planning a 'controlled fallback'? Perhaps you could suggest that he moves out for a limited period, say a fortnight or a month, to give you both space, and work out with him where he will live, and how you will handle things at the end of that period. This would push him away in a limited manner, getting distance without it being a permanent schism. It would give him a taste of separation. His pride should not be too dented if it is a controlled situation? But it would give you an opportunity to develop yourself, and demonstrate to him that you would be able to move on without him.

The danger is that he won't come back - that his pride will send him to OW. But are you prepared to go on as you are, in this miserable triangle?

I feel that you both really need to be in MC. Can your IC help you with getting him to that stage?

Reading the above, it sounds terribly advice-y. Pinch of salt time...you know your H and your own situation.

TA

Thanks TA

Well I guess the problem is that I am losing hope. When I found out 10 months ago(!) my thoughts were how can I save this? How can I make it up to him? How could it have reached this and I ignored the warning signs?

I still love my H and still want to save my marriage. But I am ambitious. we could go along as we are. h seems happy if I am happy and nice. We have a good physical relationship. But I want more. I want an exclusive marriage, one where, forgive the cheesiness, but I want his face to be the last I see when I eventually die, and I want him to want that with me. that's what my Mum said to my Dad and that's what happened when she died 6 weeks ago.

I don't know if I can Plan B.

And I don't know if I can bury my pride and Plan A whilst waiting for OW to LB herself out of our lives. This OW is persistent-the A has been going 17 months now. She has broken up with her longterm partner and is living alone.She is hanging in there. Is it because she's got this far and has no reason to stop or is it that he is egging her on with promises of them being together when the time is right?

I want to take control of my life-H has had me under his thumb for 10 months and I feel so very different now. I want to avoid any more angry outbursts on my part-have stopped looking at triggers and stopped drinking alcohol.I think in a lot of ways it would be easier now to Plan A if we were separated. Does that sound strange? I want him to stop seeing me as some controling woman who makes demands on him, and see me as his loving wife who is fighting for him, for our marriage.

Sad days.

Deluded

Hi Deluded

I am sorry your thoughts and feelings are all over the place - you are not rambling, and what you want from your M is neither cheesey, nor should it be unrealistic.

Only you can decide if you should or shouldn't go to Plan B, but I think your H's constant disrespectful behaviour (being in contact with OW etc.) is really not on. You yourself say you do not want this is your life, and you have given him many chances.

Inevitably your H would miss you and the children. The reality compared to the thought of separation (and no contact), is incredibly different, believe me. Whilst I could not bear H's angry outbursts, complete irritation at my efforts to Plan A, and his on-going belief that Shiney Head had nothing to do with anything, I still miss him. It is lonely, and this is definitely what your H would find. The wonderful world of OW would become very different very quickly.

Having said that, I know that I am in a better place than I have been for the last 9 months. Why, because even though I had the A to start with, I did my very best to Plan A when I realised how important it was to me to try and save my M. I tried to get H to MC and I couldn't have done much more than I did. I am reminding you of this, because if it does come to this for you, you will be in a better more stable place than your H will ever know.

Take care Deluded and thinking of you. Feels cold in London today.

Lisa