I just had a thought.....maybe a lot of BS (that don't come to MB) think that infidelity is so rare that they just ought to divorce? And that working on saving the marriage after infidelity is just something that a weak person would do?

I think a huge portion of my optimism about being able to perhaps save my marriage some day came from MB, and knowing that there are many people out there who've gone through infidelity and overcome it; MB methods do work.

However, that optimism is waning, that's for sure. My H just won't see himself as someone who may not have met all my needs in the marriage. As far as he's concerned I was the one who wasn't a good wife, and he was a better husband than I'll ever find again. And he doesn't want or need to hear any "psycho babble" (which MB would be part of in his eyes).

Question for BSs out there: do you think you would've been willing to work to save your M without ever finding MB?

Question for WSs and FWSs: are there any more of you other than me that have unforgiving BSs that don't post here or won't read SAA?

Just curious,

Jen

Jen:

"Question for BSs out there: do you think you would've been willing to work to save your M without ever finding MB?"

Yes, because my first reaction to discovering the A was to "fix" our problems. I didn't find MB for a couple of weeks. Also, nobody pointed me here. I searched on the internet for "infidelity" and found this site, among others. Currently, I split my time between this and the Iloveulove.com forums.

♥Qfwfq

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jen Brown:
<strong>Question for BSs out there: do you think you would've been willing to work to save your M without ever finding MB?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did ... first time I found out OM is 1997 from a cell log. A month later I confront her and she cried and we tried to rebuild ... but I don't know MB and false recovery happen. Not until 2000 I found out about the A has started or never end <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> . But yes, without knowing I did plan A ... her complaint was I don't have time since I was working 2 jobs ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> to bring the bacon home !!!) - I quit my moonlight job and found a job that paid more. I her complaint that we never go anywhere for vacation ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> where is the $ we just barely mad it) - I brought her to Hawai and 2x a years to go to Tahoe and Disney Land. Did it work ? nope !!!!. Some WS you just have to send them to stare at their own A and plan B forever ... sorry to vent here.

Jen, honestly, you should plan B and get ready for Dv to move on. Life is too short to be wasted ... Look at nikko story, she is ready to shot the elephant again LOL !.

-rh-

Most marriages do not end after an affair is discovered. I've heard that about 98% recover. Has nothing to do with MB. It's been like that for years and years.

For someone who has no hope in the marriage being salvageable, your H sure goes out of his way to let you know this, doesn't he?

Your H seems to be stuck while you are moving forward, and the distance between you two will only grow as time goes on. I won't harp on you going dark a la plan B, but your waning optimism may be the beginning of the end of your desire to save the M. And if the day comes, when you no longer want the M and implement a default no contact with your H, don't be surprised if he all of sudden wants to work on the M. It does happen you know (it happened with me and my ex-WW).

Q - I found MB the same way - a search for infidelity. I had to know how many other people had gone through this.

zoweb - I find that 98% figure very interesting. If you or anyone else can give me a source, I'd be eager to have it (proof for cynical H).

I guess I really do believe people can survive and repair marriages without MB, but wondered if people were unaware that others have recovered their M after an A, if they felt like there was no hope, so cut their losses and gave up, perhaps a little too quickly. (I know my sitch is casting a shadow over my persepctive here.)

In the last few days, I've made it very difficult for my H to get a hold of me. He's phoned many times, I've only answered one call. I've not tried to contact him at all for a week either. I'm sort of going to plan B without saying so I guess. But, if he gets the balls to invite me out on a date, or sit down and talk like two adults (without an expectation of sex to go with it), I'd be open to that.

I can imagine what you say CM, but I have trouble imagining him suddenly wanting to work on things, AND be willing to meet my conditions (MC, no more contact with his EA pal, etc).

Jen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can imagine what you say CM, but I have trouble imagining him suddenly wanting to work on things, AND be willing to meet my conditions (MC, no more contact with his EA pal, etc).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's because he's so positive that you'll always be there for him. He's so secure in this knowledge that he beleives that he can heep all the garbage he has been dishing you and you'll still be there for him in the end.

If and when the day comes when you move on and he realizes that he can no longer have you, that will be the day when he'll want you back in a bad way.

He certainly didn't sound like he wanted me in a bad way tonight when he showed up here and he talked to me.....see new thread: "Talked to H tonight......"

Jen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jen Brown:
<strong>He certainly didn't sound like he wanted me in a bad way tonight when he showed up here and he talked to me.....see new thread: "Talked to H tonight......"

Jen</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's because you have not moved on.

I'm just about there baby! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I still have trouble imagining a man with as much pride as he has ever chasing after me, after I've "moved on".

JB

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jen Brown:
<strong>I'm just about there baby! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I still have trouble imagining a man with as much pride as he has ever chasing after me, after I've "moved on".

JB</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is what I used to beleive regarding my ex-WW. That is until I moved on and she crashed and burned, got therapy, and became a functional human being once more. Of course it's too late for us (I'm engaged to a wonderful, healthy woman now), but it may not be too late for you, if you implement a true plan B to preserve what love you have left for your H.

Interesting....and I'm glad to hear you've found such happiness now.

Do you think you would've been happier if you'd repaired your first M, or happier if things had turned out this way? (Was it better to make a clean break and find someone new?)

JB

Jen, my divorce was finalized 3 years ago (wasn't even aware that MB and it's marriage saving methodology existed), and it was the culmination of so much pain of having to live with someone who was so over the top out of control, that not only was she having non stop PA's (more than I could possibly count ,unremorseful for having them and being extremely hateful towards me), but she was emotionally abusing and neglecting our two young daughters with her irresponsible behavior. We were the ideal candidates for many Jerry Springer type shows. I pleaded, threatened, even tried bribing her to go into marriage counseling but she only went one time with me before saying that she would never give up her wanton lifestyle for me or for our daughters. And yet I hung on for a few years longers, praying that God would open her heart and she would want to recommit to the marriage and her children. I read relationship saving books and continued with individual counseling (Thank God for that). But alas, it was not to be, and when the last straw involved the leaving alone of our daughters to be with one of her lovers, I knew I had to move on, not only for my sake but that of my daughters as well. When I found out about MB, the books, and the website, a little over a year had passed since my divorce was finalized (and a few months before I met my fiancee) and, for a time, I did wonder if I had implemented plan B before throwing in the towel, whether my marriage would have survived. But the emotional damage was so great and the prospects for her coming around so bleak, that I was convinced that nothing short of a miracle (which did come to pass in the form her emotional/mental breakdown) would save the marriage. I beleive that if it had not been for my daughters, I would have divorced her long ago. So having the children, was a very big factor in my futile attempts to save the marriage. So yes, I did fight for my marriage and only gave up when I no longer had any love and hope left. I hope my little yarn helped you.

Jen

I fall right into your category of having the unforgiving BS who won't come here, but read SAA and then thought that was all c**p! He is also involved in his own EA perhaps PA which started when he was still living at home, but he can't even see it.

Although I had been trying to Plan A before his A started (mind you, I don't really know for sure when it started), I realised that I had to do something. I spent 2 months doing not very much, then 4 months trying to persuad H to go to MC and work on the issues in our M and address my own issues of how I could have an A in the first place. He would swing from anger towards OM, then turned towards me and then on himself. He would veer from everything being my fault, to everything being his fault.

After 6 months of constant verbal abuse and upset (remember all the police incidents, the phone throwing, the numerous triggers etc.) and the beginning of his A, he moved out on 6th December. His attitude towards me just worsened. Everything I did "irritated" him, I was accused of "I bet you got that from your American website, it sounds very controlling to me, you still want to blame me for your A and can make me feel guilty". Most of that in response to my Plan B letter sent in January. I knew very quickly that I could not have him lie to me about OW and his constant refusal to accept any responsibility for the poor state of our M.

Jen, I'm sorry this is about me, but hey!!!! Does it ring any bells?????? In so many ways I think our stories are pretty parellel - I too ended the A pretty much on d-day.

Jen, I know my H will never forgive me and never take responsibility for his behaviour, and there is much that I have never even shared here.

Whilst I still wanted to save my M when I went to Plan B, I now realise there is nothing to save. Of course that is incredibly painful and sad, but I am at a much better place than any time in the last 9 months. I do not have to accept his abuse and blame for the rest of my life. I admit I made a huge mistake and for that I am truly remorseful and will live with it forever, but I deserve something more too.

Jen, I follow your story mostly, but sometimes don't know what to say to you. I certainly would not have continued to accept the abuse your H throws at you.

Take care Jen and wishing you well from London.

Lisa

Thanks for sharing your "yarn" TMCM. You fought the good fight for your children, and that is admirable.

Lisa - Yes it rings some bells! No violent acts or phone calls to the police, but "His attitude towards me just worsened. Everything I did "irritated" him" and what he said about you getting ideas from this website....it all sounds so parallel it's eerie. (Maybe it's my H's strong British background? lol) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

"Jen, I know my H will never forgive me and never take responsibility for his behaviour, and there is much that I have never even shared here. " I fear my H is like yours, unable to forgive or take responsibility. Part of the problem is I see much more clearly who he is, what makes him tick, and I'm not willing to allow him to treat me as he once did, or as he is now. That likely means he won't want to be married to me (and I likely won't want to be married to him). As you say,

"I do not have to accept his abuse and blame for the rest of my life. I admit I made a huge mistake and for that I am truly remorseful and will live with it forever, but I deserve something more too. "

"I certainly would not have continued to accept the abuse your H throws at you." Well, I was at a point where I was very ready to go to plan B, and then his father passed away and things really changed for a while. I was welcomed back into his family. He actually treated me reasonably well, and he generally needed me again. But, things have gone back to how they were prior to that sad day, and are progressively getting worse. My warning bells are going off, and I'm pushing him away.

The thing that bugs me is that I won't feel like I've tried everything and done everything possible unless we at least try some joint counselling; but he isn't interested in that, he's more interested in focussing on what's wrong with me than anything else. So maybe I should give up that pipedream too.

As my H said last night, I seem to be enjoying my time away from him. For the most part, I guess I am. I no longer live in fear of him all the time. Not fear for my physical safety, but fear of disappointing him. I was never good enough. It's nice to live and spend time with people who think I'm a good person, and who build me up, rather than try to tear me down.

Sorry, I got a little longwinded again. Thanks for your thoughts Lisa. They help me to refocus my perspective a little again.

Jen

I know Jen, it's an eerie parellel world going on between your H and mine <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Jen, I know how upset your were about your FIL passing away, and how your MIL really welcomed your support during that difficult time, but your H cannot use that as an excuse to treat you poorly. When H moved out a couple of weeks before Christmas, he said to me "Christmas gets in the way of emotions". Of course, that sounds harsh, but he was right. There will always be, Christmas, a birthday, a death, a sick child or whatever, where times are difficult and we think we should "do the right thing". What I'm saying Jen is that you don't have to be responsible for his grief if you don't want to. Especially since his behaviour has deteriorated again.

I also understand what you mean about MC. H actually booked a session for us when he first returned from Germany. One session, he exploded and refused to go back. He is also someone who works as a "caring" professional. But I sense that is your vision that if you could get him to MC then you might be able to work things out. I believe that in my case, without MC we have no chance, but even with MC, we would have been climbing a very large mountain.

Jen you have done loads and loads to address yourself, your behaviour, and the reason you had an A. Like me, I believe you have turned yourself inside out in the search for how we could have have become those terribly selfish, arrogant people that went so badly astray. Jen, if he doesn't believe you or want to work with you, is this a man you want? For me, I doubt the answer is yes anymore.

One final thing, back to your original point in the post, I know many people how have recovered from A's without the help of MB or even councilling. I told a friend of mine recently the "whole" story. He said to me "Well, if I really loved someone, I think I'd want to work at it and try and forgive them". So you see, I sometimes don't believe my H really loved me enough or as he said he did, and I resent that too.

Enough, but take care Jen, I'm routing for you over here in London.

Lisa