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Jen

I suspect he "hates" everyone because he "hates" himself. You cannot care about others or love others unless you love yourself first.

I find your H in a sad boat but he is choosing to be there. No one is forcing him. Asking you to give up friends that have nothing to do with the A's or anything is not cool. You need people around you, friends, you cannot isolate yourself.

Now on the other hand, if these people had things to do with the A, it may be a reminder to him but really you can't cut people off like that, which have nothing to do with nothing.

I feel sad. I think you are coming to the realization that you may love him out of knowing him for so long but you are not in love with him anymore. You might think you are at times but it's like something I heard someone say once, a rather widely used phrase.

I love him/her but I don't like them.

I wish you well. Please let me know if I can help. Im sorry Ive been out of the loop. Really had alot going on health wise and we just lost a jewel of a friend.

Zoey <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Zoey, you've hit the nail on the head. Just last week when I was driving home from somewhere, it hit me. I said to myself, I love him but I don't like him. I even made sure I wrote that realization down in my journal that night.

What worries me is that if I leave him, he'll end up being an even bigger mess. But guilt is no reason to stay together. I'd never be happy.

How or when do I let him know my feelings are changing? I guess I've decided he has until June to impress me with his own changes, but maybe I should tell him or suggest to him what kind of changes I'd need to see?

I guess I'm now worried about hurting him again by leaving him, when he's thought for months that I'd do anything to get him back. That's just not the case. I won't sacrifice myself, or perfectly good friends (who certainly never encouraged my affair or knew anything about it).

It was good to hear from you Zoey, take care!

Anyone's welcome to tell me what to do now that I'm not sure if I want to be with my H anymore....

Jen

Why dont you ask him how he wants you to act? If he could create the "perfect" remorseful Jen...who would she be...how would she act? And dont let him off the hook by not answering or being sarcastic.

I am not suggesting you actually follow his wishes but it could help clarify for him and you how unreasonable his requests are.

He says he wants you to kiss his a$$...what concretely does that mean? I know you think you know what he means...free sex, get treated like a dog...but I dont think he really knows his own mind. Rationally what sort of answer would make him happy to questions like "Wanna [censored]?" He might try to lie to himself and say the correct answer is yes but I dont think that is true. He wants to hurt you every chance he gets...but does he realize it. He sets you up for a fall everytime because he knows your reactions...He wants to fight.

What would a 180 back do to him...I am really not for game playing but I just wonder if docile, basket-case, crying, doormat Jen would throw him for a worse loop.

Just my thoughts.

ayslyne

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What worries me is that if I leave him, he'll end up being an even bigger mess. But guilt is no reason to stay together. I'd never be happy.

How or when do I let him know my feelings are changing? I guess I've decided he has until June to impress me with his own changes, but maybe I should tell him or suggest to him what kind of changes I'd need to see?

I guess I'm now worried about hurting him again by leaving him, when he's thought for months that I'd do anything to get him back. That's just not the case. I won't sacrifice myself, or perfectly good friends (who certainly never encouraged my affair or knew anything about it).
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jen, just plainly tell him what you just said to us. He deserves to know the truth as to what is happening inside your heart, and thus he can decide to either get serious about rebuilding the M or ending it. If he decides that he wants to continue with his adolescent behavior (incredible considering he is a teacher) then he will have no one to blame but himself.

<small>[ March 14, 2003, 01:14 AM: Message edited by: 2MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Jen
Hi..

You wrote: What worries me is that if I leave him, he'll end up being an even bigger mess. But guilt is no reason to stay together. I'd never be happy.

That is not your problem. If you leave, you know you have tried everything possible. How he ends up as a result of you leaving is not your problem. It's his. He is the one that is really pushing it to a whole new level with his behavior. I mean enough is enough. When will this man grow up and realize that life is short and all this time he is wasting by behaving in such a disrespectful and horrible manner will come back to haunt him if he is not careful. This is crazy Jen. You cannot live that way. You have grown and done so much work on you, if after all this he still wants to act this way, that is just not acceptable. WS or not!

Something said, I can't recall who, to ask your H who he wants you to act. Well we already know what he would say. He would have you act like someone you are not, he would be in such control that you would be misarable. You cannot live that way.

Jen, I almost left. I almost left as you know because I had done all I could. I only stayed at the good advice of some folks here because Zach was at least meeting me part of the way, not all of the way, but part. Now he was hard to deal with but no where near how your H is behaving. I've never met your H and I'm sad to say I don't like him already. Only because he is a grown man, not a child and he is behaving like a kid in High School.

Sorry for the vent but I think enough is enough. Its up to you how long you want to keep living like this. I personally would of been gone had Zach resorted to the type of Behavior your H has displayed. That would be too much for me. No one deserves that treatment. No one!

I guess I have had a few life altering experiences lately in that I find life is too short to waste time with this garbage. You made a mistake, you have paid a price, like I did, for too long. You have to move on and learn from what you did, if you do that, you are going to be okay. You cannot live like this Jen. If something God forbid happened to you tomorrow and it could, would you want your last few days to be spent in this madness? I think not!

Please keep working on you. Keep doing the postive changes to you. Don't let this man drag you down Jen. I think if you really soul search you will find that as I said before and you agreed to...You love him but do not like him. That really matters Jen. Sure you love him, for all the years you have known him and so forth but you don't like him. What sensible woman likes a whiney, marytr, poor pitiful me, angry, abusive man???? How unattractive that is. I would not even take his calls at this point Jen. I know he is coming around but on his terms only and it doesn't work that way in life. You are a human being. Let yourself allowed to be treated as one.

Thinking about you,
Zoey

One more thing, not that Zach did not have his moments, he did BUT he admitted his faults, got the help he needed and is on the road to recovery. Your H doesn't even think there is a problem on his end. He doesn't even see how his behavior contributed to this mess. That my friend, is not good. If he wants to be stuck and misarable, that is his choice. Not yours.

<small>[ March 14, 2003, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: Zoey ]</small>

As I have said before, sounds like Plan B may be a marriage saving resource or sounds like you will wait till June and divorce. You have already crossed that line of losing too much. If in that Plan B you find too much gone, you have already done a wonderful job looking at what you have done to become that better person.

Indeed Zoey and WAT...just a quick reply right now, as I don't have time for a long one.

The really odd thing is that I somehow thought that losing my FIL would wake up my H to how short and precious life is, and would perhaps cause him to make some changes, come to some realizations, etc. For him, it's just been another huge excuse to isolate himself from most people, throw an even bigger pity party, and treat me even worse as well. He feels entitled to have everyone around him tippy-toe around him and be at his beck and call whenever he likes. Maybe he's getting this from his family and his 2 female friends, who knows. (I'd sure love to ask them, but really, even if they confirm that, it won't help any, b/c it won't change anything.)

I can't get over the fact that losing his dad hasn't woken my H up at least a little bit more to the fragility of life and the importance of treating those around you with that little extra bit of kindness and attention that you may not have shown before. It would appear that even his mother is beginning to display that kind of behaviour from what I hear. Like mother like son I guess.

I guess I just need to sit him down and tell him all that I think and feel, maybe go armed with a list. But what do I do if he refuses to listen? Oh, duh, plan B LETTER I guess.

Well, I've got to go.

Jen