Through "researching" my WH's suspected A I overheard him speaking with his buddies about sex with other women..

One comment included the subject of oral sex with my sister in law, or in other words "Yeh he would really like that..would be good payment in exchange for a favor he did for her". He didn't say he did, just that it would "like that"

Another comment was about one woman that hangs at the local pub. Apparantly she is a knockout and would be quite a prize in the sack. He went on to describe how sexy she is and ect..

Do all or most men talk between themslves about these subjects and still remain faithful to their wives? Even when their own wives are nice to look at?
Should I be concerned with the comments I have overheard?

Another thing he does is share the fact that I have accused him of an affair. Believe me I have quite a bit of circumstancial evidence, but nothing solid. That is of course why I have been snooping..
He says I am crazy and am going over the deep end accusing him. He has shared this with his buddies and his mother. I feel really betrayed that he shares our intimate issues with other people. I have expressed my feelings about his blabbing before but obviously to no avail.

Please enlighten me whether this is normal "man talk".
Thanks
Danneill

Hi Danneill. I believe the sex talk is very normal for us men. I have to admit that I talk that way to my friends every now and then. I get teased all the time about how conservative I am when it comes to that kind of conversation too. Now the personal issues between you and your H is a different matter. I do have a couple of very close friends that I confide in about everything, but I always try to be respectful of my W when I do.

I guess I would be considered a ultra-conservative since I don't talk like that with my friends nor do I share personal details about my R or my W with my friends.

I think I am the exception to the rule and that most men talk that way.

The issue is do you not like him talking/looking at other women? And do you not like him talking about your M with his friends? I think that is the case, if so have you talked to him about that? I feel it is OK to talk about your M with his friends if he is respectful of you and your privacy.

STTSI

Danneill,

I am not sure about the other guy, but ALL men talk about sex and about there wife or not. I once heard "you can look at the menu as long as you eat at home".... guess W decided to have take out though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> .

But yes, i think its quite normal for men to talk about sex and other women and even their wives. I look too, and i find out more times than not, that 6 outta 10 times, that individual looks VERY similar to my wife, the other 4 i guess look like barbie.

But also, i have no idea what kind of "evidence" you have. But this is from someone who does talk and look.... i have been faithful to my wife.

wwl

Hi Starman, thanks for the reply..I can accept casual remarks but have a hard time accepting what I heard today. I guess because women do not talk like that. Not the women I know anyway. I have never discussed sex with another man with any of my friends, nor do I think of sex with other men..

If he had been standing in front of me when he said those things I think I may have punched him in the mouth, and I am not a violent person. It just really repulsed me. I know though, I was warned that I may not like what I hear if I snoop.

As far as his blabbing, that is one of our problems. We have gone through hell with our eldest (mine by previous marriage). She had started using drugs and living with a worthless lazy boyfriend. She is lazy also and has relied on me constantly for finantial help. SHe is more on her feet now, but still can do nothing right in his eyes. He has raised her since she was 2, and she has always called him Dad. How he talks about her just breaks my heart. He has called her a "Worthless F@%*X$@# B****" to her face and to mine and to everyone else he talks to about her.
She's not that bad a kid..just has made some bad choices, but never has been in trouble, did graduate and start college, then dropped out.

Our fights revolve around her and what she does. It's like he blames me for every thing this child has done that he does not approve of. He gets to drinking (often, way too much) and then raises heck with me. Like everything is my fault. He has expected me to dissown her. I am her mother. I cannot turn my back on her just because she is a messed up kid.

He feels that I have turned my back on him because I will not turn my back on her. I did get her in rehab and the short lived drug problem is over. Hopefully forever..

In the meantime though, throughout all of the last couple years he tells EVERYONE, even people her barely knows everything this child has done. He has turned his whole family agaist her, our friends, everyone.

Why would a man do this to his step daughter..? He also tells everyone that it is all my fault because I stuck my head in the sand. What parent has any control over a 20 year old that does not live at home? We can beg plead and preach, and most of them do what they want anyway..I have paid for every mistake this kid has made. Verbal abuse like you cannot believe. His rampages are terrible. He blames all of our problems and destruction of our marriage on her.

I guess what I am asking is why does he tell everyone? What does he gain? And why does he tell everyone of our marital problems and that I suspect he is having an affair? Is it to throw people off? To make it sound rediculous that he could stoop so low?

I just cannot figure this out.
Danneill

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do all or most men talk between themslves about these subjects and still remain faithful to their wives? Even when their own wives are nice to look at?
Should I be concerned with the comments I have overheard?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What really is interesting is that today many married women do the same thing when they are out partying together. They tell each other things that they would never tell their H's because it would leave their H's with their mouths open and question whether they have crossed the line and had an A. So it's not a uniquely male phenomenon anymore. Still it doesn't stop it from being deplorable behavior no matter who is doing it. It is a sign of inmaturity that should have been left behind in adolescence.

What I find more distressing, is your H is scapegoating your D to wash his hands of his share of the mess and his choices that lead to his A. That is simply wrong and unless he does a 180 degree turn in his way of thinking, you are destined to stay married to a person that is NOT going to turn into a good H or stepfather. You have to establish boundaries of your own, that if violated by him, you will not simply stand idly by and take it like you've done so in the past. Maybe then, he'll clean up his act.

My H would never talk about his sex life to anyone NEVER. AS far as making comments about other women, I don't know anymore, but I DO know this After we had been married for a while one of his freinds approached me and told me how my H must really love me cause when they go out , when they start talking about an attractive women, he would say 'naw she ugly, fat , etc etc ' and never joined in on the other '13 year old boy' games men like to do when out drinking.

All the other comments have some validity, but I see some disturbing behavior.
(BTW my opinions come from a FWS)

Concerns I see:

1. Drinking was stated as becoming a frequent habit (if I understand correctly). Is there cause for concern that he is developing the traits of an alcoholic? This could open up another group of obstacles. Is he using it as an escape from his own unhappiness? Maybe he feels like a failure as a father while your D is making bad choices.

2. If H has been the father figure for 18 years, why does he not take some responsibilty?

As far as the sex talk goes:
If I see a poster girl next to a sports car, I notice the car (that's just me though). I think it is 'normal' to talk about sex with his buddies to some degree, but they do not need to know specific details. I think the bit about how he talks to everybody about your accusations (A) is a cover-up to something that may be wrongdoing on his part. I am not saying H is having an A; but any sincere, sensitive to your feelings H should discuss your concerns and extinguish your fears if H isn't doing anything wrong.

Anyways, it sounds like there may be some underlying issues that he is not addressing. I am very pleased with this site and Dr. Harley, but may I also suggest "Relationship Rescue", by Dr. Phil.
If H is really invested in you and the M then he should be considerate of any ways that may make things better.
As far as your D, I hope that she comes around and sees what she is doing to herself and you. Good Luck.

I Love My Pookey.

Thanks guys and gals for your input..

Yes drinking is one of my H's bad habits...He drinks too much. Years ago it always made him
humorous, now it makes him mean! Not physically violent although he has came close,
but very verbally and emotionally abusive.
He is a man that will never admit he has a problem, like his father and sister before him.
He comes from a family raised on beer and bars. A hardworking family, but when the work is done it's to the local watering hole they go.

I have begged and pleaded and even threatened for him to quit drinking.
He will not, and his reply is always that he should be able to enjoy a few beers.
(Few too many usually). I have resorted to the fact that it is more important to him than us.

As far as being the father figure for so many years, he was never home when the kids were small.
Always working or out with the boys. A doormat I have always been.
If he worked til dark, then went up town for a few hours, slammed a few beers, then I was expected to have
dinner on the table when he came home. 11 p.m. was the norm.
If I was sleeping he would come in flip on the light, and if the mood was right he would raise hell at that time or want to get
lucky. Nothing worse than an "aroused" drunk.
He absolutly can not understand why I am not in the mood when he is drinking.

Those reasons are why he thinks everything the kids do wrong are my fault. He contradicts himself.
First he says that I was too lienent and never made them do anything, and then he says that I never let him disapline them,
but the facts are he was never here.

Today I asked my H if has has talked to anyone about my suspicions and accusations.
As I expected he lied. He dinied telling anyone.I already know he blabbed to his Mother and
a few of his friends. I have that on tape. So he plainly is not concerned
nor sensitive to my feelings at all. What disturbs me is their response to him telling this.
I have never been a jealous person, never questioned his whereabouts and actions before.
For 18 years he has lived like a bachelor. Yet they believe him and agree that I must
be "loosing my F***ing mind"
He's making it sound like a big joke.

ILoveMYPookey, in your experience do you really think that this is his way of trying to
throw everyone off? He told them that if he were going to throw everything he has workied
his whole life for away, that it would not be for the "dingy b***ch" it would be for someone worthwhile.

I also asked him if the suspected OW will be out of the picture now
that her business is taken care of. Final event held yesterday. He said yes.
So I hopefully will not be seeing her number on his caller ID anymore.

His disgusting sex talk with his buddy was right before he told them I accused him of an (A).
Nice huh?
And this morning he is trying to get me in the shower with him..
Maybe he has no heart...
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Danneill

bunp for more opinions and advice please...

The whole description of you H sounds like he's ready, willing and would! OR has!
He is going to far about comments of your SIL and D.
Keep snooping! My H might make comments with Other men, buddies and even our son when out and sees an attractive woman. But he'd never carry on a conversation at home like that where I could overhear it!
Your H sounds very disrespectful to and around the family which makes one wonder, just how far does he go when not at home!
From what I've read, I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw my house.
Trust your gut instincts! Not him.
Just my opinion.
LouLou

Yes LouLou you are right. He is very disrespectful. That’s the point that our M is now in. Actually though, I did
not overhear him. I have it on tape. I am more inclined to believe that he did have an A already. Maybe it is over. Maybe not. I don’t know. I continue to watch closely though.

There was just too circumstantial evidence to ignore. Maybe I have been looking the wrong direction, maybe the woman I think he was playing with is not the right one.
It sure appears that way, but maybe there is another one that I don’t know about.
He spends so much time supposedly with his buds that he could easily be somewhere else, and just using
the obvious woman for a decoy!
And his remarks to others may be to throw them off. Who knows..

But I do know that he has shared all of this info about our eldest D with the suspected OW, and he has told her plenty about our marital problems. In a previous post with a different subject line I explained that this woman is the widow of his good friend. They spent dozens of hours together alone at her house after the funeral and for 2 months after. He was helping her finalize the business.

You would think he would get the hint when I have mentioned
several times about how I feel when he includes others in our personal
family problems. I have begged him to quit, obviously to no avail. Now I feel very uncomfortable even talking to his mom and her and I have been very close for 18 years.

But, she has no idea of the evidence I have and of course she thinks her son is perfect.

One other point, for a couple weeks, end of Feb, beginning of March, there were very noticeable stains on his briefs. I tested them. There were 10 out of 13 positive for semen.
I have not seen any stains at all since he has been home these past few days. There was one positive while I was out of town a couple days last week..1 out of 3.
Makes me wonder..and throws me off. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Danneill

Danneill, sorry I am so slow to respond to your questions. I have read all of the postings on your topic up to this point. As far as the part about throwing people off: For him to say, "blah, blah, blah...it wouldn't be with a dingy bit_h. It would be with someone worthwhile." In my opinion, there is no one worth throwing away my family. I royally messed up and it has taught me a lot, but I know how important my family is to me.
Anyways, his statement, can it be reread as "...I would have an A if I found the 'right' person..." I know as a WH that I lied about everything and was willing to say whatever to look like I was the person in the right. I wanted to look like what I was doing wasn't wrong. I guess it was a form of justification, but truthfully there is no justification. I don't know for a fact that he is having (or did have an A), but I do know that when men are doing something wrong, we have a tendency to make it look like suspecting people are CRAZY for even thinking that we (the male) could or would do ANYTHING wrong.
If he has at least one considerate bone in his body, he would stop every once in a while and think before he starts spouting off at the mouth about your suspicions, sex talk, etc. I disagree with his lifestyle and if he thinks that what he is doing is what men do, well he is wrong. We, as men, don't need to act barbaric. He acts like a neandrathal (sp?). Does he go out and club an animal to death so that the family has food for the night? (Sorry)
Secondly, the whole semen thing:
Basically, I can think of 3 reasons that there would be semen in his draws.
1. He had an orgasm and put his junk back in his draws and a little continued to seep out, this does happen.
2. He was erect for a little while and never had an orgasm, and some semen was released after a little while as a response to the erection.
(I am no doctor, but what happens is the man's body 'gears up' once he gets an erection; if there is no orgasm, there is still a little semen 'on deck' that ends up seeping out)
3. He (or someone else) is pleasing himself and his draws are catching the release.

Like I said before, I am no doctor. I am a male and feel that my thoughts have some backing. Do the stains appear to be a large amount, or a little. If he blew a load in his draws, it would be dry and crusty and cover a larger area. If it were some seeping semen, then it would just be a little bit (size of a coin).

Anyways, I would be very cautious, maybe even get tested and secretly have him tested (annual physical and have it arranged with the doctor).
You may even want to inquire, nonchalantly, about the stains.
"Did you have an accident, did someone go pee pees in their underwear?" (with a smile)

GOOD LUCK I hope I have provided some help.