Wondering how everyone's kids are fairing through family betrayals? I am having a rough rodeo with my 21 year old son. I find when he get's with his swinging dad for a day he comes home taking on his arrogance, becomes quite a lose spirit and extremely disrespectful/rude towards me. He can't seem to understand why I am feeling so hurt and not moving on with my life at high flying speed he has no consideration.

However, he certainly treats his dad with respect and has little consideration that his dad is on to affair 5 or so. He'll tell his father that he won't condemn for destroying the family/having mutilpe affairs but doesn't condone him either. They go on happily ever after.

It takes days to return for him to return to normal.

Wondering if anyone else's kids are acting out and what stratgies seem to be helpful. My son absolutely refuses to get counceling or deal with the issues but feels I should be happily picking up the slack for his irresponible dad and not talk about the situation.

I feel so frustrated in dealing with him.

I found out my dad was cheating on my mom when I was 9 years old. (30 years ago). They're still married and to this day, he still cheats. I could tell you the stories but who would believe them? Its truly a Jerry Springer special! I "deal" with this daily even though I am 39 with a family of my own. Why can't I accept what he does.....my mother obviously can. I would appreciate some advice from an outsider for once. Thanks.

mayflower,

Your S learns from your WH to treat all woman with disrespect and you teach him that W should take it too. Your S is loosing respect for you ... Your S is 21 year old, draw your boundry now and don't give him excuse on his behavior on his dad's A. It has to stop or else he is become a predator too. Very high % S of WH become WH themself.

If S doesn't listen, show him the door ... he is an adult and he should listen to you as long as he live in your house. A tough love treatment that you should do the same many years ago to your WH. Don't take the abuse as of right now you are training S to disrepect women.

-rh-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KDM:
<strong>Why can't I accept what he does.....my mother obviously can. I would appreciate some advice from an outsider for once. Thanks.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KDM,

Your mom relationship with your dad has nothing to do with your relationship with your dad. Your mom choice to live in misery doesn't mean that you have to take it too. Your mom appereantly raise you well to know what is wrong and what is right and take a stand on your own. His A is betrayal to you too. Read "love must be tough", you don't need to enable his A by supporting him.

-rh-

Hi KDM,

Thanks for sharing the impact of your past--I so understand your past. My dad was the same way much like your dad. My dad disclosed to me and unburdened a extremely sick affair he had on my mother when I was 12. Rocked my world! Think we could both really make the Jerry Springer show vibrate.

I remember immediately telling my mother about his sick disclosure. My mother really couldn't care less either. She just tuned out and went about her everyday life with her job and housework.

Dad's sick perversions carried on- got worse and she didn't make waves as her "personal security", home is all she valued,cared about not losing. Her beliefs were such it was his problem and not hers. She didn't care and basically went on treating him and serving him on a God like status. Her framework core belief "the man wears the pants in the house" and therefore entitled to do what ever pleases him.

However, her double standards towards me were very different making my life an absolute nightmare with her taking her deep frustrations on me and hypercontrol efforts to keep me under lock/key and the family secrets suppressed.

Apathy from both parents is a scary situation. Betrayal from both parents wounded me very deeply.The manipulation, messing with a young mind, the debauchery of it all.

Reflecting back both my parents were amoral. I definately knew right from wrong as a kid, held out with a conscience and morals throughout my life but lost a great deal of self esteem through being subject to such degradation and of course not being properly validated by either of my selfish, sick, narcisstic parents.

My personal resistance battle went on long time and was quite mind blowing that on a subconcious level. I sought out a person to marry which in the marriage manifested the same behaviors with the same traits and behaviors as my parents.

What a nightmare, I wondered how on earth did I do this to myself and why. To have the family dsyfunction betrayal script relooping constantly in my life is so frustrating. I feel like a complete alien within the context of all my family,martial, son and extended family members.

After reading Redhat comments she is absolutely right that my son will possibly have to find the door. It's sad to let go everyone that I have loved, valued and cared about go. I am having to soberly face is that these person are not normal healthy human beings but simply are depraved,degenerates.

I see it's will be the final course to regain my sanity/life.

My father I let go years ago, my divorce with STBX is coming up shortly and now my son. I find it's sad that those I have deeply loved have choosen the wrong and dark side of life.

The WS doesn't in my opinion doesn't just cheat on their spouses but cheats on their kids. The lies, sick justifications, deceits, poor model, head games,etc. WS in many cases declares a type of warfare on their kids to strip their children spritiual, emotional, mental health down to the core.

Creating the same tremors fault lines with the betrayal wounds in the souls of thier children which errupt later on like an earthquake.

I think why it has been harder uphill battle for me to recover and rebuild self confidence, self respect from the aftermath effects of my STBX affairs. Martial and family "bondage" seems very diffcult process to disentangle from when those we love continue to be enslaved to their lustful desires, pride and deep bitterness.

I wonder what options and part we each have in shutting down the handed down legacies of treachery,lechery and debachery cycles which seems to play out in each person within the inherited sick family generational matrix cycle.

A marriage merges two generational cycles comprised together of the good, bad and the ugly. Finding which door to go through is complex revolving process. When one spouse chooses to go through the good door, and the other choose to go through bad and ugly doors. We can have either martial/family bliss or chaos/anarchy.

What do you feel? Do you still have a relationship with your father or have you confronted him? What were your self confindance levels like when getting married and how are they presently?

Many Hugs!

Hey Redhat!

Your feedback is right on and timely! I am in agreement with you. Thank you so much for the perspective. Looks like I will have to face that I have lost battle/war over my son.

With the non-existant laws to protect children in my area from harmful parents. I just couldn't hand over my kids to my STBX when they were younger as he would have seriously done much more harm to them in his environment. I opted to go throught the intensive counceling route instead, seperations where the judges turned a blind eye.

I shudder to think where my son would have ended up had STBX had full discreet access to him at a younger age to do what he will in his own enviroment. Undoubtbly my son would have turned out to be a full blown sexual predator, criminal, hard core drug/alcholic.

My son is ADHD/High risk/High Needs kid. Now that my STBX has his own bachelor pad and has free reign to do what he likes. When my kids go to visit him he leaves condoms, bras and panties lying strewn throughout his bedroom, leaves all his photos of his girlfriends all over his house, thier love making appreication notes around. Introduces my kids to his swinging friends and parties, drunk constantly around them.

STBX is also having an incest sexual romance relationship with his third cousin in a city two hours away from here. Apart from all the other women he is screwing here.

The lifestyle he leads brazenly infront of my children gives a solid impression of what life for them would have been like if they were younger. My STBX is actually behaving quite mildly since we are in middle of our divorce settlement agreement. Since my kids are considered adults it doesn;t matter what there dad is like as when they were younger.

Last April my STBX blantly told me that he had every intention of turning my son into a sexual predator like himself. Prior though when my STBX and I went to counceling with Dr. Harley he put on a whole song and dance of innocence of being a decent, moral husband and father. Sadly he used MB prinicples to further hone on his seduction skills.

My tough lough applications did alot of good throughout the years in standing up to him. My son had made tremendous process this year in healing and recovery. A shame to see him regress so far down.

He is currently in college so I don't think I can have him leave today. My STBX is doing everything to convince my kids to come and live with him.

What would you do---- this is such a complex situation.

Hugs

Good Afternoon Mayflower
Reading the responses were like opening a birthday present. Could it be that I've actually found someone who can understand how and why I feel like I do?
When I found out about his affair(s), I immediately became my mothers protector. Every fight and every tear became my fight and my tears. I vowed to never accept this. Any chance I had to make life difficult for him, I did it. All to protect my mom. All to make it alittle harder on him. Growing up, we couldn't stand to be in the same room. I grew closer to my mom and much farther from my dad. My brother accepted the affairs immediately. He became the one person close to my mom that would defend my dad and keep his lies. Money played a huge part in that.
I married a man that I went to school with. I went with him on and off since 7th grade. He was/is very controlling. He always told me when, where, who...etc....I feel really dumb now just typing that. Needless to say, my father hated him. Another twisted knife. I've been married 20 years now and have 2 beautiful teenage boys. My marriage is good (compared to what?) I'm married to a man who loves me but feels I should know this. He doesn't feel the need to show it or tell it. Of course my mom thinks he walks on water because he's home every night. My husband is a good man and I'm really not complaining. I just wish that once in awhile, he would show is feelings.
You asked how my self-esteem was when I got married. I did whatever my husband said, whenever he wanted me to. He decided to get married at his moms house...not have a wedding because of my dad. I went along with it all, all through the marriage. About 5 years ago, I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism and severe depression. I went down hill fast. My husband and I had problems because I decided that I would start taking charge of my life. I was tired of being told what to feel, what to say, what not to say. I did that my whole life. It took awhile for my mom and my husband to get used to the new me. Unfortunately, today, I still feel as screwed up as I did then. I feel strong in my marriage and I am still very very close with my mom. I'm sorry to say that being close to my mom means I have to endure my father. They live very close and I see her every day.
After my dads latest stunt, I have nothing to say to him. Not even for the sake of not making waves.
Can you tell that I'm babbling? Can you tell I have so much going on inside me? I apologize if this response is alittle haphazard. I'm really just happy that I have somewhere to vent!

KDM

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mayflower:
<strong>... Sadly he used MB prinicples to further hone on his seduction skills.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My exW's OM is very skillfull and using similiar method to get to woman's panties ... and my exW tried to use MB principal to get to OM. You know what ... it doesn't last, no R based on adultery will last.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>What would you do---- this is such a complex situation.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Simple yet requires disipline ... 1. Never bad mouth your STBX in front of your S no matter what stbx did. Stbx is his father, vent here if you need to. S is old enough to figure it out and don't use him in the middle. 2. Keep repeating to tell S that you love him ! even he keeps <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ... he hears it that all you want him to. 3. Show it with actions, reminds him that your actions are your love for S. 4. Don't take his abuse but don't get angry outburst to get back. Just bring the table around and ask him if his future S does that to him ... what he would do ?.

God Bless you -rh-

My, My, My KDM it indeed certainly is a good afternoon. Thanks for replying so soon! After reading your reply I almost bounced out of my chair and wondered if somehow you did the spock mind meld or something. Our life scripts sound so similar I am amazed.

I so understand those child hood tears you wept and was also quite protective towards my mom and all the years of living in my parents house resulted in quiet rebellion/silence, resitstance towards my dad. I spent once three blissful months not speaking to him and totally enjoyed not having to deal with him.

I was quite happy to completely ignore him but my mother was starting to break down at one point because of the silent war between us. It was really a battle of wills between us where I completely shut him out/down. His behaviors disgusted me so much that I emotionally fired him and divorced him as my father figure. Later though I replaced him with the father of truth <God> and have been much happier ever since.

My old father would get so enraged with me,at my lack of acceptance/condonance and worship of him. My mother was so complacent, compliant. I imagine it really messed his head that I wasn
t adoring of him and his sick perverted behaviors or had a shred of respect for him.

Somehow managed to erect a armor of steel against him. He his brutal beatings did;t move me or nor did I ever give him the satisfaction of ever crying or him breaking me down.

I can't believe how closely our life script parallels. Amazing! Just to update you I was married for 21 years.Met my STBX when I was 15. We dated off and on for 4 yrs, lived together 6 months, got married. The wedding day invited the mixture of two crazy families. Had I known the the dsyfunction trap waiting for me held at the alter ready to consume me.

I would have a cab waiting for me at the church, a ticket to the bahamas in hand and never returned. Hindsight is everything isn't it? Make a long story short my marriage seemed liked an epoisode from the movie "Beatle Juice".

Being preganant by now and so vulnerable I tried getting away from husband,who turned out to have a very unpleasant habit of being violent towards me and getting me to conform to his family pattern. Forcing me to behave like his mother, while he re-acted his father duplicity role. The drama wasn't very pleasant or was I impressed.

A year before I had left my family and went traveling to Europe on my own and was pretty much a free adventursome spirit. Loving the wonders of life, freedom and liberty. I don't do my mother role to well or his passive mother role to well either.

Think I had enough of my own sickco parents and to encounter his sicko family revealed how sicko they were and how they tried to control me in accepting his irresponible ways and condoned his use of force to keep in me in line.

Needless to say. I was extremely stressed out,vulnerable, trapped and later developed hypothryroid problem which set me into a depression as a result of all the marital/family oppression. My vocal communcation system took quite a knock as I was constantly being controlled by all the suppression. My shock at my own body betrayal loss of my hi enegry levels being depleted again rocked my world. I became focused on my children welwafe/well being.

The silent years of wanting to scream at my father must of taken it's toll, sick marriage and extended family on my thryoid. By the time I was 24 and had my second child I had decided that I had enough of the marital crap, my parents, extended family. I had enough of everyone decided to do a positive revolt in seeking lots of professional help instead and stood up to everyone. My revolt really rocked the family, martial script and of course brought on quite a back lash.

Standing up to my father and holding him accountable for his sick perverse behaviors was the best thing I could have ever done causing him to do alot of back peddling.

As for my WS, those stands stopped his unpleasant bad habits of using physical force with me which his father taught him to do.

It never occured to me it might have been much easier and option to have an affair and run away. Affairs as we all know are not the answer.

So if your wondering about the accompanying depression regarding your thyroid, it could have a definate connection to the relentless stress accumulated from your childhood and your father's continuing misconduct.

The love for my mother placed me in great bondage and harm. To be expected to tolerate the family chronic problems is really to much to place on anyone especially with all the help avaible. My mother flatly refused to do anything to help herself or her marriage. Thinking things would get better on it's own. Things only got worse.

In hindsight, I wished I had the opportunity to attend university and establish a good career to move myself/children far, far away from everyone.

The family dynamics were much to sick, damaging and overwhelming. One person can't do everything. My mother's expectations lacked reality, good judgement and sensitivity. Losing one health because of all the stress is a good indicator.

Would have been much easier, saner, healthier to have had rare limited contact with her, send cards, flowers and photos to her on special occasions,than risk ourselves /kids with the dysfunctional burdens. We didn't create the affairs, nor cause the problems in the family to begin with but simply inherited a great deal of pain,sorrow and suffering.

Sounds like you have surpressed a great deal of emotions, hurt, saddness.

The poor ole' thryoid can only handle so much and it is obvious you had to use every ounce of your being to be strong for your mother/brother. Can you imagine how much you have probably had to block out,repress and pretend your family was somehow kinda of normal and functional.

The emotional price of betrayal is quite high for a child to pay- how can a child possibly pay for their parents misdeeds/wrongdoings. All they can sacrifice is their own well being,dreams and hopes as human sheilds.

Sadly, growing up in such a sad family environment. One doesn't really grow up with healthy relationship skills or understand quite is normal or acceptable. It is a such a shame not to grow up with a healthy dad who doesn't make his daughter feel worthy of love, time, attention care,and consideration. Ah those deep father/daughter unhealed wounds.....of fathers so selfish, removed to ever understand and feel the depths of the unspeakable pain they caused to their children.

I wonder if your father grew up in a family of his own father's duplicity and abuse. People replay how they were often treated.

Here's to the creation of new healthy cycles!

By the way what dosaged of synthryoid are you on?
Have you heard of combining T3 hormone/with T4?
Stress reduction goes along way in helping the thryoid recover. So please know it's not all in your head.

Millions of hugs!

I take 125mcg of synthroid and 150mg of effexor. You seem pretty knowledgable about father/daughter dysfunction. There are so many questions that I have had on my mind. When daughters grow up with a father like I did, what are their character traits? What kind of teenager do they become? What kind of men are they attracted to? I tried showing this site to my husband who doesn't understand what I could possibly get out of this. There are 2 words to describe my husband so that you'll understand him.....Archie Bunker.

I take 150 mg of synthroid and 75 mcg of exfex myself. If your not feeling well you may want to explore the benefits of taking T3 hormone added. I am seeing a new doctor about this. There is a wonderful website Mary Shalom best site on Thryoid news, research, etc.

Many people don't feel great on synthyroid so if your energy levels are up to par it may be the added med adjustment.

I wouldn't call my self an expert of Dad/Daughter Dsyfunction that's for sure. But from all my research throughout the years Father/Daughter connection is as equally important as the Father/Son connection.

The father is the first male that she encounters that give her the blueprint for her validation. He affirms her worth, specialness, beauty and feminity, offering protection, attention, security and unconditional love. He is her first hero.

She receives sweet security to help her feel special, confidant, free to be freely feminine, shine in her talents and gifts and made secure to be all she can be with her future husband/mate.....

Daughters are to be a father's pride and joy. Apart from the wife being the number one female heir in his heart the daughter/s is to rightfully take second place heir in her father's heart.

This is healthy trigulation.

Affairs trigulations betrayals are unhealthy, destructive, for the women demotes the wife, daugther, and sons to the lowest levels of human depths and shatters permanently the family bond.

The betrayal is the ultimate rejection liking attacking one' flesh and blood and bone.

Somewhere in the programming the daughter see's her self and mother as inferior, defective, unworthy, replacable, and demoralized. Never good enough,

Leaving very deep scars in the soul and fragmentation.

Rejection from the betrayal wounds go very deep for the daughter. Who wants to feel unwanted, rejected and not valued. Dads promote the femine side in their daughters.

Women young or older. We are wired very differently our wiring is fragile, delicate....

Affairs smash, shatter girls beliefs about themselves.

Betrayal wounds from your father, means you on some level might select a disconnected/or partner who will disrepect them to work out the unresolved hurt that never got healed between the father and daughter.

Yes, the only other women in a dad life is his daughter/s.....

Mom, aunts yes all have a place....

Being dethroned is a big fall-----

Love is so important!

Hugs

Hi Redhat again,

I certainly appreciate your support under this heavy load and have been processing what you have suggested.

The hardest part which is hard for me is not to bad mouth my WS-his continual lies, deceits, gameplaying,and the wicked things he continues to do to me and the kids.

WS has manipulated my son/daughter so terribly that I get caught in the trap of not wanting him to believe the lies when my S comes back with his lies and having to confront them.

I took much comfort in your understanding the hurt/betrayal when a WS using MB, princples, and our couceling sessions as means to further his predatory seduction skills.

My WS using our whole time with MB--to deceive and maniuplate has been such a devastating emotional blow apart from everything else.

I have never known anyone quite as trecherous and sick as my WS.

I became quite strengthened by your understanding after reading your post and know you have walked a silimar rocky road.

I went and purchased "Love Must Be Tough" and Handling Adversity by Dr. Charles Stantely.

Between the garbage my STBX unleashes I am saddened to see my son in trying to defend him. As he has bought many of his dad lies, excuses. The rebuilidng of our lives without him has been an awesome task to get past the horrible tradegy in what my WS was trying to do me in trying to get rid of me.

My S tried confronting his dad and said that he doesn't condemn him or condone his behaviors.

I feel so deeply angry and hurt that he treats his dad with this respect but turns all his anger, frustrations on me. This is the part where I find myself standing up to him and get caught in the mind games. I have suggested he go to counceling for himself to vent his appropiate frustrations, hurt his dad has caused him, develop healthier stragtegies to have some kind of connection with his dad.

WS has defrauded us from thousands of dollars and made our lives an absolute nightmare. S doesn't seem to mind that his dad has blown it all on himself,women and friends but holds me personnally accountable.

This past entire year I have devoted to my kids mental,emotional health rebuilding. My S has required so much emotional support from myself/mother to help rebuild his fragile psych caused by his dad and cannot see or appreciate the mega efforts to help him. He seems to hold such unrealistic expectations from me which really hurts.

He wasn't capable of holding down a job, or functioning very well. We have helped him achieve many of his educational/personal goals but when he gets around his dad everything we have done goes out the window. We have had very limited resourses to work with and the resources I have had has all gone to enrich our kids lives to equip them for their adult to be responible.

I feel my WS uses him as a hostage/sheild. I so dislike him so deeply for degrading and debauching my kids.

This is the part where I emotionally leak to see him straddling the fence.

Positive thing is my son came to the Christian bookstore with me and picked up a book for himself actually called "Wild at Heart" thumbing through the book I found it addressed the father wound and helps explain what really manhood is all about. I can hardly wait until he reads it perhaps God will reach him personally here.

Thanks so much for the excellent consice advice!

How is your own situation?

Smiles,

I haven't been here for a week or so because my father suffered a heart attack. Its amazing to some people that my role changed so quickly from a daughter that did her best not to even look at him to chief protector-care-taker role. I was at the hospital every day and made sure he got the medicine and appointments he needed. This happened 10 days ago and now that he is home, I'm sorry to say that he's back to the same "stay out all night dad" that he was before. While I wish there was something I could do to change him, I know I can't. He calls me and I call him and he's told me how much he loves me. I feel a sense of relief that we are speaking again but I know that this is only temporary. Things will be "ok" until the next time something blows up....until the next time I'm faced with his girlfriends. Anyway, I want to thank everyone, especially Mayflower for your kind words of wisdom. Its nice to have someone who can relate.

Hi KDM,

I am so very sorry that your father has had a heart attack and it has been such a stressful time for your family.

My dad suddenly passed away just over a year ago, and I found I couldn't be supportative as I had tough love confrontation four months prior with him which didn't go over very well.

After spending 15 yrs taking stands, trying to enforce boundries, forgiveness, encouragement, compassion, reconcilation with him. Sadly his heart was still unremorseful hardened until the end. I found I could only honor/support my mother wishes to attend to him and my kids. But that was my heart course of frustration.

I had spent years trying to compassionate to him during his near death experinces/illness and attending to him. I can so relate lowering the boundries on compassionate grounds.

Your compassion,care and desire to see your father come to his senses and experince a wake up call turn his heart to his family is most admirable. Your a wonderful daughter to show unconditional love.

The hardest part for me to face and come to terms with in my opionion is when parental love is not recpirocated with the same level of love, loyalty intergity and solid maturity.

I too, missed hearing from you but presumed that you might be busy with life's endeavors.

The time with him must of produced a great deal of emotions for you, concerns, memories.

How are you feeling in your heart and how are things going with yourself/relationship?

I am so pleased that you are so wise to come to MB to exaime those wounds of betrayal, to heal and of course strengthen your own marriage. Hats off to you!

Repairing our selves, facing the truths,coming to grips of how parents/spouses actions have harmed us, the impact had damaged our core beliefs about ourselves.

Many hugs, smiles and encouragement!!!!

Mayflower,

Realizing that hindsight is 20/20... do you wish you would have left your H while your children were young rather than exposing them to this constant behavior? I'm just wondering if an exposure one weekend out of the month (or even less if dad was too busy with OW) would be better than the constant exposure and stress of having him in the home? Just wondering how you felt about that.

Hi, BHF1111

Just noticed your post- your so right- hindsight is 20/20. In response to your post had I the viable option/means/legal/family/community support backing as an option back then of leaving and had my STBX involvement in my kids lives been restricted once a month, or less, or too disappear completely from the scene(secondary ideal situation).

Absoultely, I would have left in a quik heartbeat/asap. Would have appreciated locating the underground railway too.

The first ideal however,it is in children best interests for families/couples to work out their problems and resolve their issues.

Unfortunately, with the lack of understanding/education of domestic violence issues both from psychological, legal, church communities and society in general here in my city anyways.

Little protection was offered to protect children from parents who are debauch threats to their kids.

Parents under seperation laws were given equal rights 50 visatation rights. Needless to say we were in between a rock/hard place and I needed to make survival choice of least mininal impact.

Unfortunately, my STBX had deep attachement bonds issues with our children warped as they are. He would not have let them go and still will not. His big corrupt family that are so into keeping up appearances since they are so status conscience outwardly. Would have inhaled our kids and enveloped them in their corrupt perverse enmeshements.

Without a shawdow of a doubt he would have exposed and subjected to them so much more degradation, hard drugs, mulitple partners, crimes,etc. I chagrin at thoughts of where my kids would actually be by now under his half time charge.

Much of his behaviors were greatly reduced in my presense/counciling for the most part provided some leverage.

His occupational lifestlye of musician for 15 yrs. Offered a perfect vechile to carry on his double lifestyle. At church on sundays and put up a different facade, provided another safe place haven for split his personality and hide his hyprocistries.

I tried my very best to sheild our children from as much as I could and stood up to many of his behaviors. Counceling throughout the years, tough love measure greatly reduced many of his antics. My kids never knew about the affairs, etc...

Now that they are of age and we are seperated they are seeing more of who he really is more full blown.

His older sister for example has been a single parent which exposed her daughter to an entire degrading life throughout her life, flauting all her multiple lovers young/old whatever in an ear shot, totally open and in her young face. His neice was molested at 5 yrs old, pregnant by 15 yrs, her mother forced her to give up her child, as not to cramp/impede either of their neo pagan beliefs kama sutra lustful sexual styles.

His other brother swinger living the lifestyle, but without kids, flaunting his irresponibitlies, alchol,hard drugs and lust conquests. A glimmer of what my STBXH, his family are like, sickly bonded as tight knit close family of 9.

Foremost, for the record I would like to say that I hold my self personally responible, am accountable and guilty for my poor judgement in not loving wisely in the first place by marring him and what I have subjected my children to and exposure. Entrapment this I know.

I must say I so do solemly understand the expression realities of living between a rock and hard place.

It's wonderful to say that living now in our day and age, information, awareness and education that abounds evoultion is starting to happen.

Sad to say but so many of our polictians and professionals where they be doctors, lawyers, judges, physchologists,clergy, etc. Live in the similar ultra liberal fashion and doing the same thing to their spouses/children making progress slower,more complex and difficult living in a free society we live in.

It's wonderful to see more laws now becoming in place to realise that isn't always in the best interest of children to having destructive parents having free access to kids no matter what.

Sadly,some people are simply incorrigible in all walks of life.

Going sane in an insane world is quite a ride! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />