"Four Lovers & A Baby" refers.

After the revelations one week ago and my wife's willingness to tell me all I wanted to know, she now seems to have retreated into herself.

She appears not to be as remorseful as she was last week (although I don't want to bring this up as she may be hurting with guilt)

She has still not given me any emotional or other reason why she did what she did .. (although I did tell her that I wanted the truth, no matter how much it might hurt ... she couldn't really hurt me any more)

She refused to call the guy and tell him it is over, saying that he is a policeman and might cause trouble for us if she made him angry. She told me that she could not do this anyway as she has thrown away his number.

After saying that she only wanted to go out together from now on, she did not seem very happy when I joined her on one of her normal single nights out on Sunday.

Last night she seemed annoyed when I told her that I was considering going out alone to have a drink with a business contact. I did not go out as I felt that she may be feeling a little trapped and did not wish to upset her.

This morning she walked away from me when I tried to kiss her goodbye, on dropping her and our daughter at school. Even after the revelations she has been kissing me goodbye.

She now seems reluctant to tell me that she loves me, unless I tell her first and then ask her if she does.

She was feeling down a few days ago so I bought her flowers. She was very pleased at first but then left them in the kitchen sink for days, saying that she did not have a vase. I found one and left it beside the flowers and she then put them in the living room.

She called me this morning and asked if I could take time off work to take her shopping. I could not leave the office and she seemed unhappy about this.

Am I being paranoid or am I failing already ?

Am I stifling her ?

Is she feeling trapped now that her single nights out have stopped (this was originally her suggestion)?

Should I encourage her to go out alone again, as her being with me all the time may be becoming detrimental to our recovery ?

I really want to believe that all is on the mend, but her initial supportiveness seems to have wained.

Please don't tell me to seek MC as it is not available in the country we live in.

Sounds like the aftershocks of d-day have worn off and she is in withdrawl (much like an addict that is abstaining from drugs). Her fear of what you might do (i.e. leaving her and taking your daughter with you) has passed and now she is acting defiant. Her excuse in not calling the OM and telling him she wants no more contact with him, sounds more like an excuse not to end her A with him. Her annoyance in you going out with her also is indicative of her wanting to return to her old unfaithful ways.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Should I encourage her to go out alone again, as her being with me all the time may be becoming detrimental to our recovery ?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NO, NO, NO. (Am I clear on this?) That's almost like saying to her that she has your blessings to restart her unfaithful lifestyle anytime she wants to (I don't think you would do that, would do?). This would only make sense in a so called open marriage where you did not give a sh** about her having sex with other men.

You need to sit down with her and calmly ask her if she truly wants to be your wife or a single woman. If she answers the former, then you need to tell her that she needs to abandon her party lifestyle along with her 'friends' who were part of that lifestyle, if there is any chance for the marriage to survive. If she answers that she wants to be free to explore her sexuality with other men, then you have to face reality that she will continue being a good time girl to other men. No matter which answer she gives you, you have a lot of soul searching to do in regards of whether you have a future with her or not.

<small>[ March 19, 2003, 02:23 AM: Message edited by: 2MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Bad night last night.

Big public argument .... I asked her to tell me what had gond wrong .... she said she had the affairs because I worked too long hours and fell asleep evenings at home (wanted someone to talk to and ended up in bed etc)

Says she was embarrassed when I went with her on normal single night out (this was her idea on d-day) All other girls had their husbands/boyfriends with them but they teased her next day about me being with her for first time etc.

Wants space, up to me to make it work, I can leave if I want etc. My choice.

Went to club and met OM, who denied all (but very edgy when I told him some of my W's revelations)

He told me that my wife has had lots of men, but not him... he is not interested ... denied meeting her last week but says they went in his car one night a long time ago and she started kissing him and asking him for sex ... says he refused.

He says that she was probably with someone else last week and blamed him to throw me off the scent.

I told him no further contact and he "agreed"

When I repeated what he said to my W she seemed very amused that he was not interested in her and said that he appeared "very interested in her" last week.

She then told me that by speaking to him I had actually invited a reopening of contact as he would probably call her to tell her of our meeting.

I asked her to tell me if he did but no real commitment.

I think that I am now blind and very, very, very stupid.

For some reason I still do not want to lose her or my daughter but it seems that it is a one way thing now .... I work (but don't rest) do whatever she wants and pay for her lifestyle.

Like a friend of mine told me once about his marriage and what was expected of him financially .... "I even pay for the bloody condoms she uses for other men to have sex with her"

I am getting lower and lower ... off to the doctor this morning as I really cannot cope with this, work pressures, not eating etc.

As I said before, she's no longer afraid that you will leave her and take your daughter with you, so now she's resentful that she can't indulge in her good time party girl lifestyle like she did before it all came out. I do not see somebody who is totally remorseful for her multiple A's (boy does that take me back to my multiple A loving exWW) and wants to work to rebuild the M. She's lived this lifestyle for so long that its become a great part of who she is.

I'm truly sorry to say, that the only reason why she wants to be married to you is exactly the same reason your friend told you regarding his WW which is to "..pay for the bloody condoms she uses for other men to have sex with her".

Your situation is so reminiscent of mine that I suspect that your WW will probably follow the same path that my exWW did. She's going to get worse before she gets better. I understand you love her, but unless she changes her attitude and behavior, you will eventually end up divorcing her (like I did my ex-WW).

I tell you these things not to hurt you but to make you face the reality of the situation and not to get your hopes way up high, because she shows no willingness of wanting to rebuild the marriage and be a faithful wife.

Your wife's behaviour shows that she does not respect you. Her promiscuous lifestyle has become more important than her marriage to you. She has come to the conclusion (because you have not kicked her out) that you will stay married to her even if she continues having her affairs. You need to get back her respect by showing her that you are not willing to live with this arrangement and that you are ready to move on without her. Divorce laws in arab countries favor the man especially when there is a suspicion of adultery. Take a tough stance by cancelling her credit cards and joint account. That action alone, will be a wakeup call to her that you are serious about divorcing her if she does not show a willingness to work her butt off to earn back your trust. You were stupid for being blind to what she was doing but it does not mean that you have to continue being stupid by accepting a wife who is not remorseful and not willing to be a faithful loving wife. It is your choice. Good luck.

2MuchCoffeeMan : I am sorry to hear that you went through the same pain and then experienced more when you tried to trust your W and make amends.

This is my fear and I fear that with her new attitude it may go on until such time that she is no longer attractive to other men ... although some of course will have sex with any woman of any age, as long as they are willing.

I want to leave it for a short while and try to negotiate - ie. let her go with her friends as long as the husbands/boyfriends are there, taking her to and from the venues.

I have told her that this IS the last chance and will have no hesitation in ending it, should something happen again.

I am finally hardening up now and will not be taken for a mug in the future. Unfortunately any future relationships would be hard for the other party as I currently seem to have a very low level of respect for women in general.... I know this is wrong but I now look around in bars and see women being picked up quite regularly - some even under their trusting husband's noses.

To the Arabs it is just a game and we are the mugs who are working our butts off, paying for their fun with our wives.

I remember the time I caught my wife with No 1 in a restuarant. He actually asked her to pay the bill before we (noisily) left the restaurant as he had no money !

They are really onto a good thing with the expats!

I realise that some will now advise me that she will become even more careful to cover her tracks, should she decide she cannot stay faithful, but this country is very small and most WS's get ratted on sooner or later.

Of the last 2 friends who stitched her up was one who eventually felt sorry for me and the other one decided to give me a try herself one day whilst my wife was out with her OM ... before you ask, no I did not ... I love my wife and have principles of fidelity - although sometimes I wonder if I would have felt any better if I had taken up many past offers !!

If it is not too painful for you I would like to ask what you have done with your own life since your divorce ... are you able to trust women now and have you found yourself a good, caring partner to help you rebuild your shattered life ?

My wife was originally a tower of strength when I was going thru my first divorce and a failed business ... I cannot believe how such a good wife could have turned on me. I accept that I may have neglected her emotionally but we always agreed that we would tell each other if this happened, well before either of us sought "solace" elsewhere.

I also find it strange that she confides only in men, who have obviously all taken advantage of her to the extent of spreading evil talk about her after it is all over ... but still she seeks a good one. The only women she has ever confided in were WW's themselves, who did their level best to encourage her to follow their ways.

And I thought that I was easily led !

I feel very sorry for you. I suggest that you seek out a therapist to understand your lack of self-esteem and your co-dependency on your wife.
It seems clear that you are willing to accept all types of humiliation and disrespect from her and it will be a matter of time before she eventually gives you some sort of sexually transmitted disease. It is so sad that you are willing to accept such continuing embarassment in your life.
You are not blind nor stupid. You have a choice in your life. It is clear that you will accept anything and everything from your wife. You made a bad choice as a spouse and apparently are willing to live with it forever. You have my great sympathy.

Thanks, Bryanp,

Love is blind ... and I still love her.

Therapy is not available here ... and the last male "friend" who heard we had problems subsequently cracked on her himself ... although this was refused (he told me later)

Don't I just pick-em ?

Doctor has today put me on anti-depressants ... maybe once I get my head in the right direction I will be in a fit state to make some decisions.

This site is very good and I appreciate all the advice ... honest and with no potential "repercussions"

Presently, you are willing to be her cuckhold. That is your choice. Of course you do not respect yourself. How could you? Staying in this marriage as it is, and having self-respect, is mutually exclusive. If you want her under any circumstance, then you will not respect yourself.

Of course, that is your choice. It is your choice to let matters worsen from here, if you want. In fact, if it weren't for your daughter, I would not bother posting. The world is full of all kinds, and you are one of a kind.

But, your daughter will grow up. And you have a seperate responsibility to her. She deserves a proper up-bringing. Not ridicule because of her mother. Not ridicule because of her father. What you are doing, by acting so sheepishly, is tacitly approving your wife's behavior. If the only cost lay on your shoulders, I would say go for it. After all, it appears that you have second guessed your own decision not to stray.
Good idea! Why not join her in this lifestyle.

But, there will be a cost also born by your daughter. Once that comes home to roost, see how low your self-esteem will go.

I think you are simply emotionally attached. This is not healthy. You are not acting rationally. You are enabling your wife to abuse you. In time (actually, maybe its already started), your daughter will receive the abuse too.

Due complete lack of respect for you, your marriage, and commitment to try and repair your relationship... I don't see very much hope in your future.

Personally, if I was in your situation, I'd do 1 of 2 things.

1: Move. Get out of there. Go somewhere where there is less temptation for her to 'party all nite'... This could be hard, because there's pretty much a bar everywhere you turn.

2: Contact a lawyer, divorce your wife, get custody of your child, and protect yourself and your daughter. You're wife is stuck in a destructive lifestyle, that will lead her and everyone around her to the pit of h*ll. Save your daughter and yourself from this and leave now.

I truly feel sorry for you. I don't really understand how you can still love her after all she's done and is still doing. Definatly work on the self-esteem problem. Get help. Take control of your life. You DON'T have to put up with this abuse.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If it is not too painful for you I would like to ask what you have done with your own life since your divorce ... are you able to trust women now and have you found yourself a good, caring partner to help you rebuild your shattered life ?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not at all.

It's been 3 years since my divorce became final and got custody of our two daughters. Since that time, I've lost plenty of weight (50 lbs), exercise 4 days a week, gotten a better job, and met my fiancee. Soon after my divorce, my ex-WW finally crashed and burned emotionally, attempted suicide, willingly submitted to therapy, got a job and an apartment, and was finally granted unsupervised visitation with our two daughters.

As far as trust in women is concerned, my view of them (prior to my discovery of my ex-WW's multiple infidelities) was that they were better than us guys. But the shock of what I discovered in my own ex-WW, and that of other husbands that I personally knew had been betrayed by their wives, shattered that beleif forever. I found out that women can be just as selfish, cruel and heartless as men, BUT I also discovered that lumping ALL women together was not only stupid but unjust. Fortunately, there are more good women than bad women, and my anger and bitterness did not linger too long thanks not only to the therapy I got thru individual counseling (and the use of anti-depressants, which help put me in control of my emotions) BUT because of my two sweet and inocent girls with hearts of pure gold, who needed and deserved, an emotionally healthy father in their lives. It was not easy, but once I became emotionally healthy, I was able to look beyond a woman's looks and words, to discover the type of person she truly was. No longer was I willing to excuse a woman's bad behavior, to beleive what was not real. I became a firm beleiver that a person's actions speak volumes as to their true nature and that their words were of no value until proven otherwise by their deeds. It was also very liberating, because I discovered that I did NOT need a woman in my life to make me feel happy and at peace with myself. I was finally healthy enough to have a relationship (although I was not looking for one) and as my luck would have it, I met a woman who not only went thru similar hell with her ex-WH, but was light years a healthier woman than my ex-WW ever was. We developed a true friendship which in turn, developed into true love (we are now engaged to be married).

If there is something that I learned is that my biggest enemy was my FEAR of the unknown. Once I conquered that fear, I found I had the strength to leave the toxic environment of my marriage that was slowly killing me and my daughters. You too need to conquer your fear, not only for your sake but that of your daughter as well, otherwise both of you will be stuck in hell forever.

We have had a very good weekend, with one argument which turned into a very good heart-to-heart.

My wife has explained in a very nice way how she succumbed to temptation with friendships which developed. These friendships started when she was herself at a low ebb, due to my basic disinterest.

This is remeniscent of our own long-standing, platonic friendship when my first marriage broke down due to my own needs not being fulfilled (my first wife virtually ignored me following the birth of our second child)

When my first marriage broke down (and my business went down the toilet as the first wife was a partner and regularly "looted" the safe with her new partner) she was a tower of strength
and support to me. Our relationship then happily developed to more.

She accepted and respected my attempt to save my first marriage (only for the sake of my children .. big mistake and patiently waited until it failed ... I then returned to her and subsequently married her.

I now realise that in this marriage I was perhaps more engrossed in my own work problems and failed to recognise her emotional needs.

When she calmly went through her own diary of events it brought home the story of an unhappy woman.

For the last few years of travelling in the Far East nothing has happened (and I am happy that potentially "at the barrel of a gun" she has courageously told me all)

She explained that after some time here I slipped back into my old ways and she started to talk to others for company and conversation ... no excuse for the recent OM, but in the shocking light of day she realised that she was starting on the slippery slope which she had successfully avoided for some time.

We have today discussed our respective emotional needs and have been like 2 teenagers chatting, hugging and laughing again.

We have discussed that there may be occasional setbacks but we have promised each other that we will both make efforts .... me to communicate more and show more interest, and she to help rebuild my shattered ego, self-respect and trust for her.

We have also renewed our original promises to each other that we will discuss any future neglect or unhappines on either side ... even if it means a rude awakening (far better than the alternative of infidelity on either part)

We both wish to make a new start and she is more than happy to let me know where she is etc. This will gradually rebuild my trust.

Tonight she won 250USD at bingo and we both hope that this is a good omen for the start of some good luck.

Thanks for all your advice (some quite shocking) and wish us luck from now on.

After all this I still do really love her and want to carry on to rebuild our original love and respect, renew our friendship and put the past behind us, providing a secure and happy upbringing for our daughter.

I said to her this evening "why do I still love you so much ?" She answered that she does not know but that I must be very special to still love her so much ... and she will not spoil such a love again.

Our daughter bears such an uncanny resemblence to my eldest daughter when she was the same age - and even now with the age gap. Looking at pictures there is no way that she could be anyone elses, or be of Middle Eastern parenthood.

Talking and patience is the way forward, not conflict ... and may it stay that way.

I will update later to give some of the others in the same situation some hope and support.

What a hopeful turn of events.

I'm curious about the argument. I think people avoid certain talks because they are walking on eggshells (i.e. fear) and it might help people if they could see specific examples of how the "make-up" relief of conflict resolution works out in real life.

I'm glad that your weekend turned out to be a good one with your WW, but don't get cocky and think that you are out of the woods and on to recovery. She still has to demonstrate if she will be true to her words and not just giving you lip service. HER ACTIONS WILL SPEAK LOUDER THAN HER WORDS. If she makes an effort to stay away from all the things that tempted her and is open and honest with you when she feels she is at a low ebb and vulnerable, then there is a chance that your M will make it. As far as what you can do from your side, try not to let your work consume you to the point where you start neglecting her again.

Good luck and God bless.

Well. my wife returned yesterday from the UK and told me last night that she no longer loves me and will be leaving me with my daughter.
She says that there is no one else and that she doesn't know exactly when she fell out of love with me.

She says that she cares for me but does not love me. She says that I am a special guy to forgive her affairs but that I dont deserve her ... says its not me, its her.

She wants me to take a paternity test as she does not want me to pay maintenance if my daughter is not mine. She feels sure that if the test positively identifies that I am not the father I will feel differently about her and my daughter (whatever I love my little girl and to me the paternity issue does not affect my love)

I have asked her to give things one more try to see if she can possibly fall in love with me once more - she has set a time limit of the end of school term.

Whether I get to see my little girl or not they will be 5000 km away so this would be very occasional.

It seems that everything that I get in life is taken away from me eventually .... what a loser !

Still reeling from this latest bombshell - will write more when I have thought some more.