To all who hae helped me the past few weeks.. especially Mortarman.. some good news I hope!!!!
My WW came home last night and said that it was over between her and the OM.. the only thing she would tell me through her tears was that he does not want to leave his kids. That gave me a chance to really pour on Plan A.. she even asked me again why I was being so friendly to her..I just told her that I loved her..now is that a change of events..However, I really don't know what to think.. is it a cover.. maybe next week he may change his mind again..none the less PlanA is swinging into overdrive...The sad thing is that she is still leaving me..she didn't say much last night but that is a major factor..Besides good ole Plan A.. I need you veterens to and out some advise and help me guide Mrs. MM back into my arms..

<small>[ March 31, 2003, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: marathonman ]</small>

marathonman:

That's great news!!! Sure, things could backslide at any time, and like you said, she's saying she still wants to move out. But this is a GREAT BIG step! Just keep up your plan A. You have excellent reason to keep hoping for more breakthroughs in the future.

Take care,
-QFwfq

That IS definetely good news MarathonMan, but you are wise to ask the tough questions because it may be something temporary and you don't want to get your hopes raised, only to have them crash down to Earth.

I would suggest that you reread as many times possible, MortarMan's threads because you can learn many things on what to do and what not to do.

As far as her leaving, she may yet pull a Mrs TM94 and talk more than actually doing it. Remember that separating will put a burden on your WW akin to single motherhood, and that is not a lifestyle to be envied. Even if she does move out, the reality of that new lifestyle will hit her right between the eyes. Also, the vast majority of WW's are not the kind to leave their BH's if there isn't an OM waiting for them to go live with. They usually are afraid to be without a man in their lives, even if they are no longer emotionally attached to that man. So keep an eye on your WW in the next few days to see if she actually does what she says she's going to do, but don't be surprised if it's just talk.

did you ask her why she still wants to leave you? will the separation be temporary (like, staying with her parents say for a couple of days) or more lont-term (like, renting an appt with a 6 months get-out clause). One thing is sure - if she is alone, then the temptation for her to call OM to have a shoulder to cry will be huge.

MM,
Congratulations on winning a small battle. I don't have a whole lot of advise to give, as I am stuck in the same situation right now. I can tell you this though, the longer she stays, and the longer you have to work on your plan A the more she will doubt herself. My wife set a date; she would be out of the house by April 1st, now she has pushed that back to April 15th. A very minor victory I know, but a victory nonetheless.

You will have ups and downs, just remember the ups when you hit the downs. I haven't been following your story, but have felt compelled to post the past couple of days. Good luck and God Bless. Stay strong.

Marathonman,

I echo everything everyone has said so far. This is good news. it is a small victory in a small battle. But I will not be here to be your cheerleader, because that is not what you need right now. While it is good to have these successes, they are invariably followed up by setbacks. it is called the "Rollercoaster." DO NOT RIDE THAT RIDE!! Let me give you an example of what I am talking about here.

I am a baseball coach. Now how would it be if I started jumping around, claiming victory in the 1st inning, after one of my kids scores the first run? The game aint over. It isnt even close to over. So, smile...take stock of your success...recharge your battery...take stock of where you are...and then move forward.

I want you to remember that my advice here comes from me doing very stupid things...a voice of experience. If you have read my threads, you will see me saying the exact same things as you. And you will see that I was a regular ticket holder on the Roller Coaster from Hell! do not let the day-to-day actions, musings, etc of your wife let you start doing stupid things. And one very stupid thing you will quickly learn is that it aint over until it's over. Just because you might make a mistake, it doesnt mean "oh no...I screwed up...that's it...she'll never come through now!" That is just not true. Look at my posts last October. We were in reconciliation, and I LBed big time. She went back to OM. I just knew it was over...that I had blown my last chance. Well...it just wasnt true.

You will make mistakes. That is okay. The point here is to be consistent. When you screw up...admit it. Take stock and figure out why...and then dont do it again. Work on YOU.

You are still making statements about getting your wife back in your arms...about going into overdrive on Plan A. This is the WRONG attitude. Believe me...I know! Your wife is going to be all over the place for awhile. The deal with the OM might change again. She might find a new OM. She might leave anyway, even with OM gone. Plan A isnt about going into overdrive or your wife seeing changes. It is all about YOU. You have the opportunity now to look at your life, to make changes to you, in order to be a better husband to the woman lying next to you. Concentrate on you. When you make a change, and it starts sinking in...your wife WILL notice! And most likely, for a long time, you will not know that she is noticing. That's GOOD! You see...she has to come back out of the fog on her own terms. She has to figure it out. You cant teach her, show her, coax her...she has to do it. And, a lot of what she has to do has nothing to do with you.

You have to get to the point (and the sooner you do...the better off you will be) that you have let her go. Not in your heart. But in trying to control her, to control this situation. While the OM staying with his wife might be good, it does not mean that it is the beginning of the end of all of this. It just means it is probably the end of the beginning.

Now that I have deflated your success here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> , I want to give you some practical advice.

</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Keep working on you. Stay healthy, take care of yourself. Dont leave any part of the day unplanned.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Get counseling...at least for you. You will need help trying to figure your way through this.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Get meds if you can. See another doctor, if you have to. It was the meds that helped me get off the rollercoaster.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dont push! If she wants to talk about the relationship, then fine. But dont use every opportunity to launch into how things have changed. Dont talk about her leaving or the divorce. Just tell her that you are opposed to the breakup of your family, that you want your marriage...and then just be quiet and let her do whatever.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Understand that she is going to get angry the better you do at Plan A. Right up until she walks out of the fog. How do you know you are doing a good Plan A? If she is launching into you about every little thing, you are probably on the right track. Just sit back and enjoy the view! She is going to "pay" for her mistakes here, and the pain she is going to go through by you turning into the Marathonman that she wanted is going to be severe. Just understand...she MUST go through this!</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do not set dates! You will know when you are done. Dates will cause you to push. Just feel confident that this is a temporary situation, and learn to work with what you have right now. it is like when I got deployed to Bosnia for 7 months...I knoew this wasnt forever...it sucked...but I knew that it would end eventually and I might as well do what I can during it to improve me.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Listen to your wife. But do not defend yourself. Much of what she says will not represent "truth" but you need to undestand that it is her feelings. Listen...find the truth in the PB. You will go a long way to regaining her trust if you just let her vent...she will begin to see you as a friend again.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do not lose sight of your faith. Trust in Him. He will carry you.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The best way to get to your wife in the fog is how you are with your girls. it is the one link she CANNOT sever. Use it. How? Put all that love and energy you have for your wife into your kids. She WILL notice. At one point right before my wife moved out, I had gone out and bought fast food and took the kids on the back porch and we just sat outside and ate and had a good time as a family. My wife sat inside, peering out the back door at us. She said to friends later that this was one of the major things that has weighed on her all of this time...the fact she wasnt part of the family.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Never let her see you sweat! She will try to goad you into arguments and to LBing. Dont do it. The best thing to do is just shut up. If she wants you to talk, and you cant because you might LB...tell her that you are done for now and need a break. And then leave. That one conversation wont bring her home, not send her away. So it isnt imperative that you solve everything in one sitting.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Act like you are still a family..that there is still a marriage. Of course there is, and you are...but you must act like that is not going away in front of her. Be confident. Refer to your family and marriage in the present tense. When my wife moved out, the kids and I always referred to her apartment as "Mom's place." But my home was "our home." We would be out, and I would turn to my wife and ask her if we wanted to take the kids back to her apartment or our place. And she would know that I meant that my home was her home...the family home. We NEVER referred to her apartment as a home. it was a place. I never asked "are you headed home?" I would ask "Are you headed back to your place?" MM...this is psychological warfare...you have to think through everything you say or do. Words mean things. Eventually, you will find her following suit. My wife even began to refer to my place as home, and her place as her "place." Even while she was still seeing OM and talking divorce.</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have more...but this is a start. I would say "dont screw up," but you will. Dont worry about screwing up. It is how we humans learn most of the time. You are now a soldier out to save your family. it will not be short, and it will not be easy. And unfortunately, you cant "destroy" the enemy. You will have to be methodical and patient. Be sudued around her. Be confident. She will wonder what is up. She expects you to cry and be frantic. She wont know what to think if you are confident and sure of yourself. And from what I hear from all the ladies out there...they love confident men
More later. Keep us updated!

In His arms.

Thanks especially for the note on confidence. That is one of thosearea where OL MM is lacking.. Have to find a way to build it or I'll be walkig around a lonley guy forever. This seperation from the OM will most likely be temporary.. He says that he loves his kids.. and will stay with them.. She also said that he was unhappy but stubburn..so this leads me to believe that it really is not over... give it a few weeks and they will be at it again..she says that he is the only one who can work on her wheelchairs at the hospital, so they will both still be in their element. she still says that he is her best friend and cares for him very much.. Still wants a seperation at the very least..too much pain from past tp try to rebuild..she feels life with MM will be miserable and not interested in being in a loveless marriage where she sleeps on the couch for the rest of iur lives..she says that she may end up being lonely as I will if and when we seperate.. but she says in an ideal world the OM will be in bed with her together and then she will be happy..therefore I know if I leave she will call him and a full blown A will begin and within months he will be moving in.. We then a had a major LB session last night with WW over the A.. asked her how phyical it got.. she said No skin on skin.."nothing more than kissing really" what does really mean.. she said "what are you trying to raed more",,,I asked did he touch your B's...NO HE HAS INTERGITY...Integrity...he's SCR%^$ing around with another mans wife..I wonder how her definition of nobility plays out here..
MORTARMAN>> your right I did screw up..but the more I lok at it.. the more she wants out of the marriage...she is set in her ways.. says that I really have to accept whats happening or I am going to fall apart when it does.. again No interest in saving marriage.. she says that the family is not breaking up .. just going to be a different family where parents dont live togehter.. man she is on the Blow...I guess its back to PlanA.. trying to build a better MM...I really think she loves the OM..and is pining for him.. She knows that she has the control,,BUT I HAVE TO TURN THE TABLES...any suggetion from the women out there how to build confidence..if thats what you women liek in a man.. I need a severe injection to get me going...
SHE IS NOT MOVING OUT.....She still wants me to go...But again I refuse to leave..and she just says we'll see.. Is all this pain she's putting me through worth it..I know that there is a better woman out ther for me... maybe her and the OM.. her best friend.. we meant to be togehter
maybe I'll just say F&*K it and step aside..
I do love her and want to fight .. but I really don't know how much more I have in me..

MM,
Hang in there buddy. I know right now it seems hopeless, and like nothing you are doing is going to work. Believe me, I heard some of the exact things 3 months ago, the same anger, the same determination, etc. Now, 3 1/2 months later my wife has softened some, and she's still at home. Yes, she's still talking about leaving, but she hasn't left yet, and that's all I can ask for right now.

Be patient MM, you are stronger than you think. If you weren't you wouldn't still be there. I had the same thoughts you are having; step aside, find someone else, etc. And, I'm not going to lie to you, I still have them sometimes. But, when I do I remember how much I wanted my wife back at the worst times, and how much I Love Her, and I know she still loves me (even if she won't admit it). Believe me, when I started this roller coaster ride from hell a few months back I never thought I could make it this long, or this far. But, I have, and it gets easier each day.

Have you checked into meds yet? I can't stress enough how much they will help to balance out your moods. I was fiercely against AD's, but then I realized that I wasn't in as much control of my emotions and reactions as I wanted to be. Since going on the AD's I have leveled out unbelievably. It won't take the pain or depression away, it just takes the edge off.

Hang tough MM, you are strong, you are doing well, and you will become a better person through all of this. Keep plugging away on your Plan A and concentrate on yourself. Once you take your focus off her, and put it on fixing yourself you will begin to become someone you didn't think you could be. Your wife will see this, and it will make her decision that much harder. God Bless.

marathonm:

I am so glad that mortarman is here to help you out! Mortarman, I am so proud of YOU for your success, and your ability to outline how marathonm can deal with his situation so eloquently!

marathonm: Try to stay off the subject of the A with your W for now. It IS reasonable for you to expect answers to your questions at some point, but right now she's not ready to talk about them without the two of you LBing in a big way. Give it a rest for now. Focus on the plan A.

You will be okay!
♥QFwfq

Q I vote that we contact the moderators and have MortarMan's threads and posts enshrined in the MB hall of success stories.

MarathonMan, your WW is definetely in la la land with her views on life with her OM. She fails to realize that 'what s/he does WITH you, s/he can also do TO you'. But be that as it may, you need to follow MortarMan's advise, otherwise you may find yourself to be out in the wilderness without a guide and map to get you out of it.

If I ask to see my doc.. I will end up waiting a few weeks.. and even then she may not give me anything..I will try to find another doc to give me some ads..I am so scared and alson.. I really seems that there is no lala land.. she means business.. I just spoke with one of my customers who has a friend that works at the hospital mrs. MM works at ,, and gave me some news that this has been going on at least since oct.. they were talking about MM being so niave that he didn't realize what was going on... I then went to Dublin to run a marathon.. who knows what she did when I was gone..at the same time it came out that the OM had moved into a motel just after new yaers... how coincidental..just around same time she said she wasw leaving... its all starting to make sense wwith you guys saying that she has done the deed..I am sittting here drinking a few beers.. I want to confront her to tell her I know about her lies...she has said over and over that we're through...why try to beat the dead horse..I want to work things out.. but the more lies I see.. the less I want to make it work.. she told me last night .. if she stayed she would be miserable and I will spend the rest of my life with her on the couch and me in bed alone..unless i left and the OM moved in.. then she would be happy..I wonder if this thing about the OM calling it off is just a part of their paln to throw me off...last night she went out with "a friend" to discuss how things were going.. she says it was a girl friend.. I would hazard a guess it was the OM.. does not take 2hours to drink a coffee..how much more pain do I have to go though.. it may be for nothing in the end.. at least that what it seams...do I expose what I know or do I let it slide for now??? I dont want to LB but Plan A.. does not seem to be getting me anywhere...I just continue on..Do I give her the benefit of the doubt when she says that it is over with the OM... they still work together...he is still unhappy with his wife...but loves his kids...what can I do to ease the pain..until I find someone to give me ads....
Thanks again to everyone.. keep the advise coming...I am desperate!!!

TM/q/too much coffee man.. I wish I could meet you guys down the road if and when this ever works out.. I really appreciate the kind words.. It is just so hard.. I thought that I was starting to see the light.. but it just got black as tar again.. please watch over me and dont let me do anything stupid.. I'll try not to say anything about the motel...but its one of those things I want to say ..:see I know you were lying!!
advise!!

Marathonman,

Let's get to it!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This seperation from the OM will most likely be temporary.. He says that he loves his kids.. and will stay with them.. She also said that he was unhappy but stubburn..so this leads me to believe that it really is not over... give it a few weeks and they will be at it again..she says that he is the only one who can work on her wheelchairs at the hospital, so they will both still be in their element. she still says that he is her best friend and cares for him very much. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MM…read this over a couple of times. Do you see the lack of logic here? This is the front seat on the Rollercoaster from Hell! OM loves his kids and is going home…BUT, he might not stay. Up, down, around…back up again…blah, blah. Am I being hard on you? Yes, I am. Others here were hard on me in the beginning also. Many here have the old 2x4…please do not make them use it! What I am trying to say here is…stop worrying about this! Okay, okay. I know that it aint that easy. I have been there, remember? But you need to find the difference between easy and simple. This is very simple, but it is not easy. Try to spend your time working on the plan, and working on you…and less time worrying about whether or not it will be OM Part II showing at the movie theatres. You have MORE IMPORTANT things to do right now. And there is nothing you can do about it anyway.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Still wants a seperation at the very least..too much pain from past to try to rebuild..she feels life with MM will be miserable and not interested in being in a loveless marriage where she sleeps on the couch for the rest of iur lives..she says that she may end up being lonely as I will if and when we seperate.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Fog talk. Psychobabble. I heard the EXACT SAME THINGS! Of course she feels this way. If she didn't, she wouldn't be pursuing a married man why she is also married. It is called THE FOG. But remember, you cant talk her out of the fog. You can only be a better MM, so when she does look out at times, she will see the new you…and when she finally comes out, she will trust the new you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">but she says in an ideal world the OM will be in bed with her together and then she will be happy...therefore I know if I leave she will call him and a full blown A will begin and within months he will be moving in.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See what I just wrote above. This is more PB. Don't listen to it. Ignore it. Even if she does do all of this, which my wife did, it does not mean it is over with! This is a "war" MM…it will most likely be a long one. Get that through your head now. Go ahead and figure the worst WILL happen so you are ready for it. But keep praying that it wont come to that. Keep working on you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We then a had a major LB session last night with WW over the A.. asked her how phyical it got.. she said No skin on skin.."nothing more than kissing really" what does really mean.. she said "what are you trying to read more",,,I asked did he touch your B's...NO HE HAS INTERGITY...Integrity...he's SCR%^$ing around with another mans wife..I wonder how her definition of nobility plays out here.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">STOP THIS NOW, MM! It gets you nowhere. What if she said "Yes, MM. The OM just left and we had the most incredible sex that I have ever had." Would that change anything? Would that make you feel better? Would you be able to Plan A your wife after that? Since she said "No, we havent…but we might in the future," does that make it easier? Will you Plan A her well now? No, you wont. Look, there will be plenty of time during reconciliation to find out the truth of what she has done (and is going to do). But right now, the truth of what she is doing WILL NOT HELP YOU. When you talk with your wife, you should be trying to find out how to be a better MM…not trying to get the dirt on her. By concentrating on you, and getting off of the D and the A, you also cause her to not be so defensive. And she will open up to you. And you will get the answers to how to be a better MM. And she will begin to see the changes. And she will then start talking more. And then she will begin to trust you. And then…

Do you see the progression? You are LBing big time. And in reality, you are hurting yourself also. When around her…stop asking about OM. Talk about your relationship, you, the kids. Get things into some normalcy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MORTARMAN>> your right I did screw up..but the more I lok at it.. the more she wants out of the marriage...she is set in her ways.. says that I really have to accept whats happening or I am going to fall apart when it does.. again No interest in saving marriage.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She might be right…she might not. The point is…she is in the fog and SHE DOESN'T KNOW. She isnt trying to convince you…she is trying to convince HERSELF. Don't play into it. Repeat the mantra "I love you. I believe we can have a better marriage. I believe that we can get past this. I will not give up on my marriage, " etc. You drive the train, not her. She keeps saying "the grass is orange" and you keep worrying that it will eventually turn orange. You KNOW it is green. Keep saying it is…keep acting like it is. When she looks out of the fog, she will see the truth. She is NOT set in her ways. She is scared, and is trying to make the mess she has made into something good. And she just cant make it fit. Her anger toward you though helps her to keep trying. Get out of the way and let her fall flat on her face.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">she says that the family is not breaking up .. just going to be a different family where parents dont live togehter.. man she is on the Blow... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My wife said the same thing. And I kept repeating that a family isnt a family because of the kids. A family starts with the husband and wife. A family is that relationship first, with the kids added to it. That upon divorce, that the family is no longer a family. My wife and I no longer are related. I am still my kids' dad. She is their Mom. But the central unit is gone. Then we remarry, and now the kids are part of two separate families. Keep repeating this. She will deny it at first. But after 6 months of me repeating this over and over again, my wife did come to the point back in December, when things started falling apart with the OM, that she realized that she wanted her family...and OM could not give her that. That her family (which included me) would only be what she wanted if her and I were married. Like I said before MM, this is psychological warfare. Repeat something often enough, let her read books you get (like Wallersteins research on what happens to kids in divorced families), and after while truth begins to sink into the fog. It will be slow. It will take one bite at a time. But you have to play the "game." Stay to your guns. Only speak the truth. Her life right now is built on anger and fantasy. It cannot stand forever.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess its back to PlanA.. trying to build a better MM... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Back? You should have already been there. Look at all of the time we have wasted here talking about her and OM. It is getting you nowhere MM. Get on Plan A, stay on Plan A…and leave OM and WW to God.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really think she loves the OM…and is pining for him.. She knows that she has the control. BUT I HAVE TO TURN THE TABLES... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Q…can I borrow that 2x4? MM, stop this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">any suggetion from the women out there how to build confidence..if thats what you women liek in a man.. I need a severe injection to get me going... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now…here is some constructive work. Confidence? Start by being an INCREDIBLE Dad. She loves her kids, right? If someone (you) is loving her kids in such an incredible way, can she not feel something for him? That is the first thing. The second? Stop the whining and LBing. Stay confident in your decision to stay in the marriage. Just discuss it in a matter-of-fact way. That this marriage can be saved.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SHE IS NOT MOVING OUT..... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good. More time for her to see the changes in you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She still wants me to go...But again I refuse to leave..and she just says we'll see.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes we will. You may be surprised in the end…even if she moves out. Just look at me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is all this pain she's putting me through worth it.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Only YOU can answer this. If you can look 5 years down the road, and have the marriage to Mrs. Marathonman that you KNOW is possible, would it be worth 6 months, a year, two years, of hell? Would it? If in the end, it didn't work out, but you became such an incredible MM, that your next wife would inherit this awesome husband…would it be worth it? Look your girls in the eyes…then ask yourself it is worth it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know that there is a better woman out ther for me... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Better? Doubtful. But God is good. And if your wife refuses to obey in the end, He will bring someone along side you. Don't worry about that. Once you are divorced, then you can deal with that. Right now, you have a wife. Do what you have to do for her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">maybe her and the OM.. her best friend.. were meant to be together maybe</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Meant to be? No. Remember, God put you and your wife together. They were never meant to be. Also, remember your wife is swimming upstream. Less than 5% of the relationships like theirs work out. Be confident. You have God, truth, statistics, love, etc on your side. She only has the OM. Sounds like you are the winner no matter what.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'll just say F&*K it and step aside.. I do love her and want to fight .. but I really don't know how much more I have in me.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I didn't know how much I had either. Take each day. Then each week. This will only happen one step at a time. That's why we are insisting on you getting into counseling and getting some meds. This will not happen quickly or easily. But it is simple.

MM…you need to get with it. You are making the same mistakes I did…falling into the same traps. You want this to go on LONGER than it is supposed to? Then learn…make a decision. Fake it until you make it. Until you do, you will ride the Rollercoaster from Hell. And you will only have yourself to blame for remaining on that ride.

In His arms.

MM,
I can't tell you how right Mortarman is. He's traveled the road you and I are on right now, listen to what he has to say. I can tell you that my wife said many of the exact things as yours is, and Mrs. Mortarman did. But guess what, my wife is still at home, she's still in my bed, and she's becoming more affectionate. And Mortarman has his wife back.

Look at the timelines, use them as a reference not as gospel! Look how long it took Mortarman. Look how long I've been here. Look over on the Recovery board and see how long MARK10 has been here. Things will not fix themselves overnight. You have to get yourself out of the rut you are in right now and make up your mind that YOU are going to improve YOU for YOURSELF. (Notice there was nothing about WIFE in that sentence) It is not easy MM, I know, I've been there, and I'm still here. But, I can tell you that it gets easier as you go. Start off taking it 1 minute at a time, then 1 hour, then 1 day, then a week, before you know it you will be taking it a month at a time. Stay focused on the end goal, the restoration of your marriage and the building of MM as a better person.

Okay.. I really get the point.. any new info I get on her A with the OM...will be put aside..I will concentrate on plan A.. and try to keep up the best I possibly can..I really apprevcite the kick in the pants mortarman.. I need it.. I have been also looking at yout threads.. its eerie...I will go to my office this weekend and print it all... I want to see it and know it..Q thanks for the advise...I have to stick with plan A.. now here is the difference between me and you Mortarman/TM... my wife will not allow me to massge her in any way... and sex is out of the question completely.. wont even go there...Movie and dinner date..ot a chance....not interested... asked her to have lunch.. says that it will ruin her da....does not want to spend time to hang out..."what are you trying to prove..get with it we are seperating"..we do not sleep in same bed and have not for a month...says if we stay together she will be miserablke and sleep on couch forever..
I will continue with Plan A... and try not to LB...although I feel this is hopeless... I am going to give it my best shot since you are still together mortarman..if we shared the same story.. maybe we will have the same results...I will continue to pray for the miracle,,If the OMhas gone back to his F for now..aybe it is a sign from God.. who knows..I will let things go with the OM..and hope that things with Mrs..MM and me work out..
once again.. mu most sincere thanks

MM,
My wife was the same way at first. She told me to stop calling her during the day, stop sending e-mails, stop being nice to her, stop telling her that I Loved Her, stop this, stop that. The point I have been trying to make is that once you let go of her and begin to work on yourself (Plan A) she will notice and things may start to come around. My wife was disgusted with me, couldn't stand to see me. Now she's different.

I'm not saying I'm out of the woods yet, she still plans on leaving. But, I am happier now, and so is she. If she does leave she will get a reality check right between the eyes when she doesn't live in a nice house, eat nice food, etc. anymore. Am I always happy, overjoyed and upbeat? Hell no!! I still have my days when I question myself and wonder if all of this is worth it. But, then I remind myself that it is worth it, and no matter if I found someone else or not, it could never be the same as it is with my wife. You have to have patience MM, that's the key!

marathonman:

"f I ask to see my doc.. I will end up waiting a few weeks.. and even then she may not give me anything..I will try to find another doc to give me some ads.."

How do you feel right now? I wound up in a desperate state about the middle of July, and ended up going to the emergency after hours care at Kaiser. I left with a prozac prescription about an hour later. If you are feeling desperate, don't wait weeks for a Dr's appointment. GO RIGHT NOW!!! This is your life. Tell your Dr what's going on. Most people will tell you it can take a couple of weeks for the meds to take effect. I weigh about 250 lbs, and the prozac kicked in for me in just a few days. Some people have undesirable side effects from some of the meds. I had none.

"I am so scared and alson.. I really seems that there is no lala land.. she means business.. "

Fog can appear very business like. Follow Mortarman's advice on that one. Grass really is green!!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Qfwfq

marathonman:

Who does the dishes in the house? Who makes dinner? Who cleans the rooms? Does she sleep in a bed or on the couch? Can you tidy up for her, put flowers in a vase next to her "couch", take some of the meal-preparation duties off her hands, fix something that's been bugging her for years that needs attention. All without saying a word to her. Just take on some additional responsibilities to take a load off. That kind of thing.

I did this. I wasn't much for cooking or doing dishes kinds of things before D-day. And it took a while to make it a habit, but now it's almost second nature. Last week, I came home and she was in the shower. Without a word, I did the dishes, all before telling her I was even home. She was pleasantly surprised to find that a minor task was dealt with and so wasn't on her mind for the evening while we watched the Lobotomy Box before going to bed.

Make it fun. Battle fog babble with kindness and favors. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

-Qfwfq

Q..A fair amount of time.. I am the one who does the dishes and on quite often starts supper..but I get the point..try to take the pressure off her..onthe councelling side.. I will set up an appointment..TODAY!! with a good MC.. and at the same time I will call my doc to see idf she will give me something to balance myself.. when I saw her last.. for coucelling.. she said I was okay...and didn't feel I needed anything.. I told her about the info I was given and she strrted crying saying that it was all lies and that nothing happened with the OM until after new years.. and that she would never go to a motel...she is upset that someone at work would be that cruel.. not sure if she got caught and is starting to back paddle.. or telling the truth!! I did however sit next to her on the couch and rub her back while thought about the info..as I was going to bed I offered for her to come with me.. but she said she would not have a comfortable sleep.. guess it's better than a flat out NO!! I tried to give her a hug..and she got cold again saying I dont want your hugs..leave me alone... If I respect her and not touch her... she won't be coming to me for affection .. I guarentee it..same as sex is out of the question...How can I suggest it to her??? she says that she is not my wife and she doesn't sleep with her friends..however we know there are exceptions to the rule..WW out there..what do I do to get her relaxed enough to want to try???
I told her the last time I tried to initiate back around New Years and she pulled away... that you come to me when youre ready.. that was 2 and a half months ago.. so I'll be waiting for hugs for a while...this D%^M fog is getting on my nerves..hopefully paln A will allow for a better weekend..

Q..A fair amount of time.. I am the one who does the dishes and on quite often starts supper..but I get the point..try to take the pressure off her..onthe councelling side.. I will set up an appointment..TODAY!! with a good MC.. and at the same time I will call my doc to see idf she will give me something to balance myself.. when I saw her last.. for coucelling.. she said I was okay...and didn't feel I needed anything.. I told her about the info I was given and she strrted crying saying that it was all lies and that nothing happened with the OM until after new years.. and that she would never go to a motel...she is upset that someone at work would be that cruel.. not sure if she got caught and is starting to back paddle.. or telling the truth!! I did however sit next to her on the couch and rub her back while thought about the info..as I was going to bed I offered for her to come with me.. but she said she would not have a comfortable sleep.. guess it's better than a flat out NO!! I tried to give her a hug..and she got cold again saying I dont want your hugs..leave me alone... If I respect her and not touch her... she won't be coming to me for affection .. I guarentee it..same as sex is out of the question...How can I suggest it to her??? she says that she is not my wife and she doesn't sleep with her friends..however we know there are exceptions to the rule..WW out there..what do I do to get her relaxed enough to want to try???
I told her the last time I tried to initiate back around New Years and she pulled away... that you come to me when youre ready.. that was 2 and a half months ago.. so I'll be waiting for hugs for a while...this D%^M fog is getting on my nerves..hopefully paln A will allow for a better weekend..