Dear All

I haven't posted about myself in a while, because really there has been nothing to say. I began Plan B on 9th January, although H contacted me after that date. I then wrote a letter which he reacted very angrily to, but since then (until recently) there has been no contact.

I have to say that although in the early days I struggled with it all, since my holiday back at the beginning of February, and in the last few weeks I feel I have reached a much better place then I ever thought possible. I take full responsibility for my poor choices and the bad and damaging things I did to H. I will live with that for the rest of my life.

What I do feel is resentment though. For H, it was easier to go off with someone else rather than address our issues. When so many people on MB have said so often to me "I wish my WS was like you, had given a fraction of what you have, I would give anything". It seems to me that I probably didn't mean as much to H as he claimed. I'm not lessening or belittling his hurt, but that he could begin another R so soon is beyond comprehension.

I wrote to H recently. I apologised for not replying to his letter, but said that I didn't know what to say so thought it best not to say anything. I told him that I never intended to cut him off completely, nor that I felt the need to use a third party to communicate. I asked him to meet with me to talk.

Well, he responded and we are meeting tomorrow night. Now why do you want to meet him you may well ask? (Alternatively you could have given up reading by now and not really care <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> !!!).

Well friends, I have decided that I can accept so many things that have happened in my life and with my M, and one of those is that H will never forgive me or be prepared to try and heal and mend our M. I will be asking H for a divorce. You may all think this is way too soon, but I know he will never accept any responsibility for what was wrong in our M, not that what he is doing now is damaging me, our M and most importantly him. I believe he will crash, badly too. I also think that if we had tried to rebuild, we would be struggling because of so many of the issues that were a problem to us and had gone unaddressed for so long - you who have followed my story know what some of those issues were, although I never shared everything here.

I don't know what response I will get. Probably one of gratitude that I will let H go quickly and with as least pain as possible for both of us. I think he will want out to get on with his life. I think really this is what I want to do too. Of course this makes me sad, of course I miss him, of course I still care about him and his wellbeing, of course I bitterly regret my A and am remorseful, but do I love H and do I want to be with him? I think, honestly, the answer is no.

I do not need or want to be with anyone, and yes, I'm already getting offers, so maybe there's still hope for me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

So, that's me, and I will post again tomorrow to let you know how I get on. I hope that for both of our sakes we can do this amicably.

Thank you to everybody for supporting me through the bleakest and darkest days of my life - there are so many of you, you know who you are - I don't think I would have survived without you all and MB.

Lisa

<small>[ March 27, 2003, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Lisa in London ]</small>

Hi Lisa,

<strong>
I don't know what response I will get. Probably one of gratitude that I will let H go quickly and with as least pain as possible for both of us. I think he will want out to get on with his life. I think really this is what I want to do too. </strong>

dont try to second-guess his response. be open-minded - maybe he doesnt want to let go? maybe he want be grateful? all I'm saying is, be prepared to listen and ask what his real motivation behind his words are.

<strong>
Of course this makes me sad, of course I miss him, of course I still care about him and his wellbeing, of course I bitterly regret my A and am remorseful...
</strong>

Tell him so and show how you demonstrated it. I understand that you want 'closure' and 'move on', but dont be afraid to tell him your feelings. That way you show that you take responsibility for your actions, and show him that he should too.

Good luck,
N

Lisa,

I have re-read your post twice and still cannot figure out why you are going to rush into a D.

You are hurt and feeling that H did not return your good will and effort in terms of talking about your difficulties etc. I can understand your frustration, dissapointment and your need to end the pain. But this is still all very recent, no?

Maybe it's me that needs to get a grip and realize that some things cannot be saved...but I digress!

You mention that there are things that were never right between you, that you have not discussed on this site. You have heaped them together with the pain and frustration you are feeling now...you just want to end the pain. Maybe, you also want to JOLT H into some kind of realization that he is make a terrible mistake by not dealing with you at all. Is there a grain of truth to that?

I would try to be as "transparent" as possible. No tricks, threat or anything. Go into the meeting with an open mind. WHat have you got to lose?

Speaking as a BS, I can only tell you that the pain and anger that come from betrayal is so deep. Everybody has different reactions and for some, recovery is long. Be patient. There's time.

Good luck

Hi Nick & Eleanor and many thanks to you both for your thoughts and comments.

Nick - yes, you are right - I cannot presume to guess how H may or may not react. I only know that he is not at the moment the man I married, and is "happy" in his R. He may still surprise me.

Eleanor - I hear what you are saying, but things have not changed since d-day nearly 9 months ago. By that I mean H's determination not to want to work on our M, review the problems that we had in our M that went unaddressed for too long, go to MC and has found it easier in the last 4 months to have his own A. It is a complete and utter mess. Believe me, I have struggled with it for a long time and it is incredibly hard. I just know, H will never forgive me - he has told me as much as well. Am I rushing into it? No I think I have thought about nothing else for the past 9 months.

I do see what you mean about rushing into DV rather than just perhaps waiting, but H has already asked for a settlement on the house, and my Solicitor advised me that this should only be done in conjunction with DV. If H knows this, he will want the money and hence the DV (well, as Nick would say, don't presume). But, if that is the case, I guess I want to prepare myself too.

Finally, I think the honest truth is, I have managed to live without him, and have found a sense of peace that wasn't there before. I sadly believe I would loose that with H back in my life.

Thank you for making me think about things though in a different light. I will be honest and transparent, I deserve that as much as he does.

Lisa

Lisa,

You make a fine case for yourself! Some of the details of your situation were not known by me, and when I read your post, I can see why you are at the end of your rope. I also understand the very real concern about securing your fianacial sitation in the manner suggested by your solicitor. (I am a lawyer, but I wish I could call myself a "Solicitor", said with an accent of course...it just sounds so distinguished!)

Nine months is a long time to wait for a sign of life from H, and considering the fact that even he says he will never forgive you...I understand your approach.

When I re-read my "advice" to you, I realize that it's the advice that I want to give myself about my own situation. Pathetic projection! I want to encourage myself to be patient...so I encourage others to be patient for me!

It's clear that you have thought this through. You even have begun to put your life back together and can see yourself being happy and whole without H. I commend you for that.

Your H is the looser in this situation, and like I told you once, he leaves himself very vulnerable to life's bumps by not learning anything from this experience. He will go into relationships wounded and scared.

I wish you the best of luck in your meeting. Don't beat yourself up anymore about your A.

Lisa-

I will be praying for you!! You've thought this through, and at the end of the day, you need to do what YOU believe is right. If this is the course of action that you believe you've been led to... then more power to you. Stay strong and keep your cool (more likely than not there will be some button-pushing done). Please let me know how it turns out and thanks for the update.

Fondly,
C

Lisa I too beleive that, in the end, your H will be the greatest loser in this tragic story. I could understand (but not condone) your H's A if you had been continuing yours, and showed no remorse whatsoever for it, BUT to not even TRY to address the issues that were the contributing factors to your vulnerability to have an A, is just plain stupid. No matter what the outcome of the M will be after the A, it is an opportunity for both the BS and WS to become better people. But I guess it's easier to point the finger at someone else and dump all the blame on s/he than to look in the mirror and ask 'What was my role in all of this?'.

No matter what you decide Lisa, I KNOW that you will find the happiness that you deserve, with or without your H. There is life after divorce and sometimes a much better one(I should know).

Don't become a stranger. You have plenty of wisdom and experience that could be of great value to other folks, WS AND BS. Take a vacation from this place if you must, but don't leave it forever. There's still plenty to be learned from oldies and newbies alike.

<small>[ March 19, 2003, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: 2MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Lisa,
Reading your thread brought light to my situation, too. Thanks for that.

I'll be thinking of your tomorrow, and wondering how your meeting goes. Please let us know.

You sound quite at peace and happy. I am so glad to see that! We deserve to be happy.

I dont have much to add to these fine words said by others.

Eleanor, thanks for saying: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wish you the best of luck in your meeting. Don't beat yourself up anymore about your A.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lisa, you give me such strength.

It's late now, and I know I haven't said much here, but know you're in my thoughts!
Thanks to YOU,
H_P

Lisa-

I sincerely hope things go well and that your H is atleast willing to be civil about this whole thing. Just don't be too surprised if he get's a little toxic as he's sure to notice that you're moving on. I'm convinced that all of us can be happier than ever if we simply learn from our mistakes and are willing to change like you have. Good luck from the raining-for-friggin-2-months-straight-SE-US!

Thank you everybody so very much for your kind words of support and encouragement.

Litchfield - LOL!!! That's usually my line as you know, but we have had the most glorious warm sunny Spring weather for the last week! Yes,I realise that H might not like me initiating things, he also may not like the fact that in his mind, everything really is my fault. You know what you say about learning from our mistakes and admitting them, I was never very good at that. I always found it hard to say "I was wrong and I'm sorry for that". But it's not so hard to do, and I know I've come a long way - I wonder if H can say the same?

H_P - I am glad that you have found some strength and light from my situation. I never thought when I came here I would be able to do that for other people - I was a mess, a basket case, I didn't know which was up. But you know what? I'm not a child killer, I don't mug old ladies for £1.50, I made a bad mistake, and I take full responsibility for that. I believe I will always live with it, but yes, I have come a long way and have gained some peace in the last month or so.

Coffee Man - your first line reminds me of what a friend of mine recently said. She said "If you were to divorce purely because of the affair, that would be a tragedy". It is tragic, she was right, you are right, and I believe too H will crumble and falter with time. I wonder whether he will wake up one day and realise what he lost. As ever thank you for your support, I know one day I will be more than alright, and with luck who knows perhaps there will be someone to meet who can share the new and improved Lisa Version II <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hey Calypso - yes, I fully expect that he may be a little angry at times, but I really don't want a row with him. Hopefully he will see that and sense that I am trying to do the best by him and for him. Funny, the old Lisa would have said something like "Well, he can bloody like it or lump it". I would have been angry and wanted to fight back, but not the new Lisa. The new Lisa will tread carefully and try and use my best learnt MB techniques to keep the waters calm.

Eleanor - don't worry, you didn't know the whole story, and frankly, sometimes it is long and boring <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I can understand and appreciate your concern though to think I might have just been "giving in" too quickly. I also think that as I said to someone else (can't remember who, see I'm getting old and my mind's going <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) that although all of our situations are different, the similarities are so shockingly familiar too. Maybe you did feel a little that you were projecting yourself into my situation, but I know you only did it with my best interests at heart, and I am grateful to you for your concern.

You are right too about his vulnerablity, as CM says. I still worry about him "waking up" one day and the effect of that on him. See, I still worry, I still care about him.

So, not long to go now. I felt incredibly nervous yesterday but much calmer now. I guess the hardest bit is that we have had no communication really since January. I don't know much except what the girls tell me, and I try not to get invovled there as it is not fair on them. Sometimes they do tell me things though, as a sounding board. All I can do is be honest and open with H and that my friends is not a bad place to start.

Thank you again to all my MB superstars, I will post later (CM, don't worry I won't be going too far away yet!).

Signing off from a very bright sunny warm London (sorry Litchfield!)
Lisa

Dear Lisa,

I want to commend you for being brave and initiating this meeting with your H - I'm sure it took some doing to work up the courage to make the contact.

I agree with TMCM - you are the one who has to do what is right for you, and you if you really feel you have done all you can, then you are the best one to decide whether this is the right step for you.

I think I would just say, about tonight's meeting, that you should be cautious about making any financial agreements without the advice of your solicitor. If he makes you an offer, say you will get back to him. Don't let him push your "guilty" button, so that you end up agreeing to something that isn't fair, just in order to get out of the marriage quickly. I know this will be an emotional meeting for you, and I pray that it will go smoothly and you will be spared any more acrimony, but if it does start to heat up, remember that when you are finally in control of yourself in the face of his anger or "indifference", you are truly free.

I wish I could offer better advice, but I don't know what else to say. I have always appreciated your kindness and insight and I will send good thoughts your way tonight. You know that MB is always here for you - you might find it useful to look in at the Divorced/Divorcing board if your D gets underway.

Take care,
LIR

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It's so nice to see you sounding so much stronger. Please beware that you could step back a few paces, emotionally, when you meet with your H tonight. Other than that, I don't know what else to say to help you prepare for tonight.

Let us know how it went.

Karen

Hi LIR and Karen (just seen your post too)

Thank you so much - it honestly gives me strength to know that you and others out there in MB land will be thinking of me and routing for me.

I think you are right about the "guilty" buttons. I have been thinking about how I might deal with those sort of "Well, we wouldn't even be talking about this if it wasn't for you having sex in hotel rooms across the SE of England with OM" sort of comments!!!!

I think the best way to respond is to say "H, you yourself have told me that you believe how sorry I am and how I regret the A. You even told me you commented to your friends how you admire me for the efforts I made to address why I had the A and the efforts I put in to trying to address the problems in our M. I can't change what happened, I can't tell you anymore how sorry I am, but I can tell you that I have forgiven myself and I truly hope that you can forgive yourself and move away from pain and anger. We can churn over all the things that happened in our M, but I really don't think it will help either of us to do that."

Does that sort of thing sound grown up and sensible, non confrontational? I hope so.

On the financial side, the offer I am making is the one agreed with my Solicitor. I have also thought what I would go up to if he presses, but I actually think the offer I am making is very generous.

Thank you again LIR - you know you are often in my thoughts too.

Karen, I know I feel strong and calm now, but when I see him, I'll probably want to cry buckets. H always used to say "Lisa's so emotional, she'd cry at the bus time table" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and it's true. I guess the honest truth is, that whilst I know deep in my heart this is the right thing to do, it's still really horrible to have to do it, because I still think so much of him. I'm trying to toughen my emotions in readiness.

Lisa

<small>[ March 20, 2003, 08:43 AM: Message edited by: Lisa in London ]</small>

LIL-

I think right now that we are sister's in our situations.

I know where you are at because I am there as well.

Good luck to you. You will feel MORE pain before the end of it all, but YOU really did try to make amendsd and you're ready to move forward. Please keep us informed and try to keep your emotions in check when negotiating your D.

It's hard, but this will make you feel much better about things once all of the life "buzz" is done and time has passed.

Lisa

I don't really have much to say.. Just that I wish you good luck tonite. I know this has to be a very hard time for you, seeing something you've worked so hard for coming to an end.

Be strong.. You will survive. And with luck you'll be happier than ever some day. I have good feelings about you. You're a strong, kind, and patient person. I know you'll come out on top of it all.

Good luck and keep cool!

Dear Lisa,

Good luck and may God bless you and all your plans in life and decision about your M.

Take care...
S

I messed up big time, he messed up big time. He lied to me that he was going to Germany but he went to see OW. I called her and told her some home truths about the breakdown of his first marriage, I got revenge - about what, I'm not sure. He told me his life has a big hole in it because he misses me so much, he cried, I cried, but I still cocked up royally. He was angry that I phoned her even after he lied to me that he was going home to pack. He ran away from me in the street.

I can't believe I did so badly. He antagonised me, and I told him so and he came round and apologised for being aggressive. OW told me "You have no self esteem if you are ringing your husband's girlfriend" - how much like fried **** is that?!?!?!??!?!?!?

I did so badly, help me please

<small>[ March 20, 2003, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: Lisa in London ]</small>

Lisa-

You are human, we all are. This is a small step in the big picture. Cry, take a step back, and breathe.

At least you realize that you still have VERY strong feelings for H.....and he for you.

Don't contact other than to send a short note of apology.

give yourself a hug from me.....

I can't offer you advice, just a hug!
(((Lisa)))
Hang in there, this must be terribly hard for you!

I'm sorry it didn't go as you hoped.

You did find out though that he missed you, and that you both had feelings for each other.

I don't have any sage advice, but know that I'm thinking of you.

H_P