Ok folks. My wife has drawn up seperation papers, which we agreed upon before. But, I have a bit of a dilemma; she wants me to pay 1/2 of the cost to file for seperation, or she will file for divorce. She says it's the same cost either way, so she might as well file for it now and save the money from filing again later. So, should I cough up the money for seperation papers and dodge the divorce bullet for a while, or should I stand my ground and reaffirm my stance that I want neither seperation or divorce? But, on the other hand, I don't think we can really completely heal unless we seperate. If you haven't figured it out already, I'm a bit confused on this one. So, LET ME HAVE IT!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But, on the other hand, I don't think we can really completely heal unless we seperate. If you haven't figured it out already, I'm a bit confused on this one. So, LET ME HAVE IT!!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Before doing anything, contact an attorney and find out if you are not giving away any rights. If she becomes offended by your insistence on having a lawyer review the paper legal work she has drawn up, just ask her, 'I will grant your wish AFTER my lawyer reviews the separation paperwork and gives me the OK to sign it' and leave it at that. DON'T let yourself get railroaded into signing anything that could later come back to bite you in the a**.

Are you enabling her? possibly, but she can still separate from you, legal paperwork or not, anyway. But signing it (after your lawyer approves it) also sends her a strong and powerful message to her, that you are NOT afraid to let her go and move on with your life. You see, fog or no fog, many WS's beleive that because the BS is deadly afraid of losing them, that they don't have to worry about the option of coming back later on if they so choose. But that beleif gets shattered (or fractured) when the BS calmly says to the WS, 'OK, if that is what you want, let's get divorced'. She may not show it, but deep inside she is questioning herself whether her decision to separate or divorce is indeed a wise one.

So far, your behavior has been one of strength and acceptance of reality, and whether you beleive it or not, she wonders whether you are getting yourself ready to move on with your life. Something she may not anticipated at all.

<small>[ March 19, 2003, 06:13 PM: Message edited by: 2MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Coffeeman is right. At least calmly and confidently work out a separation agreement that you can live with and try to show her by your actions that you can live without her if you have to. My WW completely changed her tune when I started a legal separation and it caught me by complete surprise because I thought that is what she wanted.

TM, you might want to look into Luki's thread titled I'm at that point because it touches on what me and starman said in our last posts.

2MCM, Starman,
Thanks. I really do believe that we will need to separate in order to fix things, and I'm ashamed to say part of me is looking forward to it. I know that she will begin to doubt herself once she's out on her own, and maybe then she will realize what she had. I'm not so afraid of being alone anymore, and reading Luki's thread helped me feel better about those feelings. I dread the lonely nights at home alone, and the empty bed. But, I no longer think that I can't live without her, I know that I will manage.

TM-

You're in a hard place.

Personally, I read this and the forst thing that came into my mind was - Let her file for D! Why should you give in to blackmail.

My thoughts on it are that she is TRYING to manipulate you. She doesn't WANT a divorce because she would have filed for it! Tell her the truth - I don't want either and will not be satisfied by helping this. Granted, Divorce is extreme, but I sincerely beleieve that you and she will never get to that....

I guess you need to decide if you're willing to take a chance on losing her in order to get her back....

JMHO-

Kily,
I hadn't really looked at it as blackmail, or as manipulation. But, I can see where an impartial observer could. I think the only reason she hasn't filed for divorce yet is because I asked for a separation first, then divorce if she still feels that strongly later.

Part of me wants to give in and give her 1/2 the money in order to buy myself some more time, and to do everything I can possibly do to avoid divorce. The other part of me feels like she's taking advantage of me. Afterall, this is her decision, why should I help her to leave?

Here's another topic, a bit off the subject, but I'll throw it out and see what everyone thinks. Last night she came to me and said she wanted to enter an ameature boxing competition, would I spar with her and see if I thought she could do it. So, we put the gloves on, went out in the garage. I was expecting something light and playful, but she opened up on me like the champ! My instincts kicked in and out of nowhere I caught her a good one in the nose. I thought that would be the end of it, but she wanted to continue. A few minutes into it she just started bawling. She kept at it for a few minutes, crying and punching. Afterward she kept crying, but wouldn't say what was wrong.

TM-

She is sorting out her feelings. What started as something "fun" turned into something very scary for her because she was unleashing her anger. Her tears were probably due to the realization on her part that she was venting frustrations. Could have been anything though... She is so confused and in such pain...my heart goes out to you guys.

Be careful though - she could accuse you of domestic violence.

Send her an email today that encourages her to chase that dream. Let her know how thoroughly impressed you were with her skills. Tell her how happy you were to be a part of things and apologize for hurting her nose. (Send flowers? and say on the card - Sorry I hurt you, but you were great!)

I think this was a good thing my friend.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here's another topic, a bit off the subject, but I'll throw it out and see what everyone thinks. Last night she came to me and said she wanted to enter an ameature boxing competition, would I spar with her and see if I thought she could do it. So, we put the gloves on, went out in the garage. I was expecting something light and playful, but she opened up on me like the champ! My instincts kicked in and out of nowhere I caught her a good one in the nose. I thought that would be the end of it, but she wanted to continue. A few minutes into it she just started bawling. She kept at it for a few minutes, crying and punching. Afterward she kept crying, but wouldn't say what was wrong.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Talk about getting 'hit' by reality <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> .

In a way your sparing match with her is a good metaphor for how she is fighting against reality. As you are painfully aware yourself, it's a losing fight, even before it begins. Unfortunately, she's just gotten a small sample of how reality can truly bite. I hope she learned this lesson.

Kily,
I didn't think about the flowers, I think I'll pick some up on the way home.

2MCM,
You get the smile for the day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I don't know if she learned her lesson or not, but her nose is still swollen today. I liked you analogy about fighting with reality, that may be it.

I know there was something bothering her last night because after she got back from the store she went right in and started working out. Then went to the heavy bag before asking me to spar. She only works out on the heavy bag when something is really bothering her. So, I'm wondering if she may have seen OM at the store or something, I don't know because she won't say what was wrong. But, you know the good thing about it? I'm not worrying about it, if she tells me fine, if not then she's the one causing herself more pain. I'm not going to take that road anymore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Don't give her a dime...if she wants the divorce or whatever, let her pay for it.

Giving her the money to buy a few months would be like buying internet stocks a few years ago...you'll probably end up with nothing in the end, and you'll be out your money.

Not saying there is no hope...like I said, if she really wants the divorce, she'll pay for it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But, you know the good thing about it? I'm not worrying about it, if she tells me fine, if not then she's the one causing herself more pain. I'm not going to take that road anymore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">God bless those little miracle pills call anti-d's. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hoping4Best,
That was my first instinct, and that's what I've told her all along. But, now that the moment of truth is here I'm not sure. I guess we'll see what happens.

2MCM,
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You get the smile award again. Yes, AD's are a God Send!! I can't believe the difference!

Yep, with anti-d's it's like somebody kicking you in the nuts ,while you are reciting the Gettysburg address, and you wouldn't miss a word of it (in an emotional sense of course) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ March 21, 2003, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: 2MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

tm-

how's it going?

Same same... Grandparents are visiting for the next week, so we'll see how things go. She's still being sociable and nice, ocassionally grumpy but when she's like that I just walk out and leave her alone. Now she's the one who follows me and appologizes. Working 2 jobs and messed up sleep patterns are new for her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now she's the one who follows me and appologizes. Working 2 jobs and messed up sleep patterns are new for her.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is because you have taken control over your fears and emotionally accepted the reality that she is a human being with free will that can not be forced to be where she doesn't want to be.

She sees your new found personal power and the peace of mind it has brought you and worries that eventually YOU (and not her) will be the one doing the walking and leaving the M.

2MCM,
I hope your right, either way I know that I feel better, and I am a better person. Right now so many things are going my way I'm not sure how to take it all. I've been approved for my house, the owners accepted my offer, I found an unbelievable deal on a bike (now I just have to find the $$)... The old me would have been looking for all the bad that is secretly hiding in it all to ambush me, the new me just says, WOW, THIS IS GREAT!!

After I told her today that I found my bike she began to pick it apart. Telling me it was an impulse buy, I shouldn't be buying it now, etc. When I got back to my office she called and appologized for upsetting me. She said when I left I had "the old look" on my face, and she wasn't used to seeing that. Now THAT makes me feel GOOOD <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

TM-

The bike thing is easily explained. She is jealous that you have done something for yourself that excluded her. She is putting negative comments to it because it is a threat to her.

You bought the bike -without her.
You are pursiung something that makes you happy - without her.
It is an independant decision and she doesn't know how to deal with it.

If you buy a bike today, what will you be doing by yourself tomorrow? She wants you to need her and nothing else. She wants you totally dependasnt on her so that she can do whatever the hell she wants to-

VERY WS thoughts....

Kily,
Thanks, I had not looked at it like that. I suppose that does make sense. She keeps telling me that I'm "obsessing" and this is an impulse buy. But, maybe deep down your right (I hope so).