I need some advice fellow MB partners. H vanished last Sunday and didn't hear from him for 4 days. He told my Fil he had court in Miami and would be back on Mon. Then H called Fil Mon. eve and said the judge needed him in court on Tues. He then called Tues. and said he was having a meeting w/ some people and wouldn't be back until Wed. Anyway he didn't have his cell on and said he was staying in a house down there w/ friends. I knew he was lying. So I found out on Wed. morning that he went to Cuba!!! He didn't call and didn't tell me or his kids he was doing this! Now, he missed the President's address to the nation concerning the impending war, you know cause Castro tv doesn't carry our stations. So Wed. eve he called and said he was driving up from Miami. Acting like nothing was wrong. I had some very strong concerns about whether or not he would be able to get back into the country Wed. Soooo... after I talked to him, my friend called to inform me that a plane was hijacked out of Cuba that very evening. He is so lucky he talked to me before I got that call. Now his children are on the edge and I feel they have been through enough stress. Man ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! Now he is telling me that he wants to move back home. He was served last Fri. w/ the seperation papers. He wants me to cancel that andhe says we can't work on our marriage until he is back in the house. He hasn't apologized once for any of this crap. His ego and pride are more bruised than his desire to come home. He is still very angry and hostile toward me. Last night he asked me to dinner. That was a disaster. We barely talked. And today I told him he could come and take the kids out but he said he had a wedding to go to. I basically asked him if he was more concerned w/ hurting the bride's family feelings by not going or hurting the kid's feelings by not spending time w/ them. Well he stormed out angry but called me a little while later to invite me to the wedding. I went. But when we got to the reception, I saw his place card and table assignment. Nothing for me. He said he didn't rsvp for me because things were rocky. I told him I am still his wife and he should have done it anyway. We couldn't stay of course b/c there was no place for me. I said to him initially that I could go to a movie down the road and I needed some money. He pulled out a 20. When I started walking away I think he realized what he just did. He took me home. We didn't speak one word all the way home. I am just so tired of his lack of concern for me. He is living a complete other life apart from me and quite honestly I think I've just lost the last bit of feelings I have for him. Is there any hope left?

Hi Ljkm3,

Sorry for the delayed response. I read your post earlier but couldn't respond. Just finished an all day yard sale and am quite pooped!!! LOL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Why was Cuba such a secret? Is OW there? If so, hm.... raised big questions because of the immigration thingy and all.

Now what is he up to? Yoyo being a yoyo again? Hm... Is he home or not?

Don't let him make you the blame for his failure to take care of his family needs. This includes you. Ohh.... and when he says he is not sure he can trust you when he comes back, that also is a line of you know what.

Now he acts like nothing happens. More fog. Ok are you willing to do the same in something else? Uhh.... like spilling something on his lap (by accident of course) and then act like nothing happened. Well you know that is not possible and neither is ignoring the A and it's ramificaitons.

When my WS came home and thereafter each restart of the recovery, the WS requirements for coming back to his family got higher and higher. Not a matter of me meeting his needs but rather him meeting ours.

IMHO, the WS wants to make the BS the scapegoat again so that the WS isn't seen taking the full blame for what they caused. When mine tried to put some of the blame on me, I shot it right back. Worked for me.

take care,
L.

Oh, Orchid, thank you thank you thank you. Man I think I am losing my mind! Yes, of course the ow is in Cuba. This last trip was the 3rd since the end of Dec. And he has the nerve to casually say that he has to go again in april! He continues to state this is for business reasons, but absolutely no way on earth he needs to go there now (since he is not gaining anything financially now from this) and why the **** would he put business before family?! You know, I really have had all I can take. This morning he came over early (the kids let him in). I was still sleeping and he came into my room and climbed into bed next to me. He started scratching my back and trying to touch me. I just moved his hand away. Later when I was in the shower, he came in and asked me if I wanted him to wash my back. NO! And when he comes over he doesn't talk to me at all. He doesn't apologize or say I love you or boo! He will, I'm sure, never admit he's had another relationship. I was up until 4 in the morning. I couldn't sleep. I cried solid for a good hour. Will this ever end or am I just fooling myself that we could ever work this out?

lkjm3,

To be real honest right now your H is not an H. He is a man who has the former identity of your H even down to the fingerprints but character is rapidly being taken over by the WS character. Some of us refer to that as the 'mothership'. The alien syndrome that seems to take over the mind and heart of the real H (or W).

Kidding aside, you need to get yourself to a place along with your children to one that can deal with his actions and minimize the affect on you and your family. That's a mouthful but so is this whole situation.

After about 3 months, I learned to (or was forced to) treat my H turned WS (new title he rightlfully earned) as the stranger he had become. However it was AFTER that painful disconnecting of our relationship. The mothership (full of OPs) had taken a strong hold on him and beaming his head all over the A galaxy.

How did I learn to do this? Reading, posting, venting here helped. Creating my personal support group (not all knew everything - including our child). Realizing that support can come from many sources. Getting MC support. Visiting the doctor for a physical reality check. Securing things like assets, financial matters, etc. Hiring a PI as needed and afforded. Reading, reading the basic concepts section and books from Dr Harley and Dr James Dobson. Praying for a clear mind and a calm heart.

Then absorbing this stuff and applying it. I wasn't always good at it. But I survived. I also learned that I nor anyone else couldn't push my recovery. I wanted to save my M at all costs but it took time to realize that deep in my heart. My mind and heart were out of whack for a while and the news of the A really threw me for a loop. Didn't help that the OW and WS were constantly bombarding me and trying to break my spirit. Whether the OW communicates with you or not, that is what both the WS and OW do when together. BS bashing is a great past time.

When your H is out of character, know that it took hard work to get him to that spot. It will take just as much if not more work to get him back. You will see if it is worth it.

In the meantime as silly as this sounds and hard as it is to do. Try to get some rest and take care of you. Don't be the perfect or near perfect mother and wife. It's ok. Your adrenaline will run for quite a while but your body won't.

Learn to balance the 2.

take care,
L.

Well, I have done a ton of reading and rereading. I am trying to follow both Dr. Harley's and Dr. Dobson's advice. But here's where I'm sitting on the fence... I have filed for a seperate maintence agreement. WH has to answer of course lots of questions and disclose stuff he wouldn't disclose to me and he is as expected, furious. This is where he truly blows his top. He threatens me that he will counter w/ D. Oh well. I'm not so concerned w/ that b/c he's not rational. But every asset is in his name(Mr. Control Freak since day 1) our house, our rental property, money that we got from a refinance for a remodel is in an account w/ his name only. Now he is looking to refinance once again and potentially take more equity from one of our properties(again, for potential remodel). WH has in the past been a most responsible person w/ money matters. He has always managed money well and I never had any concerns about what he did. BUT... in order to put a freeze on assets, I would have to actually file for a D. I don't see any light at the end of this tunnel at this time, but I also don't want to fuel the fire and completely sever any hope of reconcilliation if I do file for a D. On the other hand, since he resides on another planet anything goes. He could whack out and start liquidating. Then my financial security flies out the window. I really can't see him doing this but he is more angry and hostile every day. What's the best course of action? Do I stay in seperation mode? Do you think he's finally feeling the squeeze because I did in fact take legal action? Could this be the beginning of him getting off the fence himself? He came over and spent the entire day here w/ kids. Then as he was leaving he said "I guess you're kicking me out." Tell me he is feeling some kind of pressure. I need a BIG PILLOW TO SCREAM IN!!!!!

Originally posted by ljkm3:
Well, I have done a ton of reading and rereading. I am trying to follow both Dr. Harley's and Dr. Dobson's advice.

Orchid: Good. Not easy but good. Now pray for a clear mind and a calm heart. You will need it to execute what you have read.

But here's where I'm sitting on the fence... I have filed for a seperate maintence agreement. WH has to answer of course lots of questions and disclose stuff he wouldn't disclose to me and he is as expected, furious. This is where he truly blows his top. He threatens me that he will counter w/ D. Oh well. I'm not so concerned w/ that b/c he's not rational. But every asset is in his name(Mr. Control Freak since day 1) our house, our rental property, money that we got from a refinance for a remodel is in an account w/ his name only. Now he is looking to refinance once again and potentially take more equity from one of our properties(again, for potential remodel). WH has in the past been a most responsible person w/ money matters. He has always managed money well and I never had any concerns about what he did. BUT... in order to put a freeze on assets, I would have to actually file for a D.

Orchid: A fence is not a good place to sit. You need to have clear advice about your financial situation. Get with your lawyer for good direction. Pick out a good one. Share the irrational and questionable behavior so the lawyer knows what you are up against. Not a matter of turning against your H but right now he is not acting rational (though he will say he is) so you need to be cautious. Part of the hazards of the A and you need to be careful.

Remember MB does not give legal advice. We sometimes let each other know what some of us have faced or learned but the decision and direction is ultimately up to you.

I don't see any light at the end of this tunnel at this time, but I also don't want to fuel the fire and completely sever any hope of reconcilliation if I do file for a D.

Orchid: Without real direction, how do you know if you are fueling the fire and completely severing the recon even if you file for a D? You really don't so put that worry aside for a moment. See the WS tries to use that as a tool to keep you in his control. A type of WS babble. Learn to spot his real intent and work with that. Much easier that way.

On the other hand, since he resides on another planet anything goes. He could whack out and start liquidating. Then my financial security flies out the window. I really can't see him doing this but he is more angry and hostile every day.

Orchid: If he has taken up alien resident on that A planet you can be sure that the laws governing any M or laws of the land could be an obstacle thus making him your worst adversary (at least while in the A). So be careful. Secure your financial assets. A wise man said to be cautious as serpents yet innocent as doves. It was for a totally different reason but the application is basically the same.

What's the best course of action?

Orchid: Best course? IMHO, get yourself legal advise. Know your options. Prepare for the worst and make a good plan A. See how long you think you will be able to plan A. Then use this time to work on making yourself stronger and better. Identify your personal boundaries and work on implementing them. They may change from your initial thoughts. It will settle into a real mode that you will carry forward, whether the WS comes back or not.

I took the D walk. Met with the lawyer, learned how to do the D myself, went to the courthouse and read up on family law. Check out the websites available to tell me what my options were in this state and confirmed them with the lawyer (also helped me see if the lawyer was good or not). Worked my shoring up my resolve. Plan A the plan B, then when the WS asked to come back (made the mistake of taking him back too soon and I paid the price for it - health failed, WS had domestic violence charges levied against him by the police, I miscarried, attempted suicide, etc.), then I was able to identify my boundaries (must be a slow learner - LOL!!). Once I did, things became much easier. Kept plan B in my back pocket and used it as needed. Now the WS is trying to turn himself back to an H but he is proving it to me. Not the other way around.

Do I stay in seperation mode?

Orchid: You will have to weigh the Separation vs D options. For us here, it is basically the same.

Do you think he's finally feeling the squeeze because I did in fact take legal action?

Orchid: Maybe. Remember that the central nervous system of an alien may not be the same as in humans so it is hard to tell.

Could this be the beginning of him getting off the fence himself?

Orchid: Could be but IMHO, I think not. I think he may be trying to be a cakeman. You may have made him think a bit but as long as his anger keeps peeking out, I don't think he is ready.

He came over and spent the entire day here w/ kids. Then as he was leaving he said "I guess you're kicking me out."

Orchid: Another example of WS babble. I got that also. Then I learned to retort, nope you are and it looks kinda funny when you kick yourself in the but as you are going out the door.

Tell me he is feeling some kind of pressure. I need a BIG PILLOW TO SCREAM IN!!!!!\

Orchid: No more pressure than you are feeling so don't let him pull the wool over you as he is fishing for sympathy. His pressure is self induced, yours is not.

Go ahead and scream into the pillow. It does help.

take care,
L.

<small>[ March 23, 2003, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Orchid, as I have looked over my posts, you have always been there. You are an amazing woman. Last night when I read your last reply I knew that I would be able to handle whatever comes my way. I know I have some important decisions to make and believe I know what I really need to do. All of this stinks. I cannot believe WS's can dive this far off the deep end.

You seem to have a pretty clear perspective on the events that have occured in your life. I'm sorry you had to go through such ****. You know, a lot of times when I come here to vent, I feel that I don't have the right to b/c there are just so many situations worse. But I guess the common thread is the fact that some spouse has caused terrible damage to their family. And that's the glue that bonds us here.

Do you know that last night after WS left I gave him a plate to take over to his dad's so he would have dinner(he's 87), and this morning when I saw my FIL I asked if he got the dinner. He said NO!! Unbelievable! I know WS is shamed b/c he lied to his dad about Cuba trip. But he knows his dad depends on me to make sure he's eating.(It was raining last night so FIL didn't come down). Sorry, I am majorally venting now. I am just so angry. His dad means the world to me.

I am going to spend some time today reading Scripture. Someone suggested to really dig into James. WOW! Oh yeah, we can all definitely relate. Thanks for keeping me sane. I'm thankful I was led to this site.

Hi lkjm3,

Glad to hear from you. Posting here and venting is a member's right. How we post and vent needs to be by the rules. Other than that rule, vent away!!! LOL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Your situation is just as important any the rest. Your ability to help is also appreciated. For me posting and venting here served as therapy. Guess by my count it looks like I needed a lot of therapy - LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I am sorry your FIL did not get his dinner last night. Yep the WS needs to know that now his actions are putting others in danger. Forgetting a dinner doesn't seem too bad but who knows what else is next. For me I let my WS know that I could not trust him in little things why trust him in big things? When he tried to make lite of it, I told him, ok howz about I do the same to you? Then proceeded to do so. Boy nothing got his attention faster then to have the same done to them. That do unto others scripture worked but in the fog you have to do it 'backwards'.

Have to get ready for work, will check in on you tonight.

take care,
L.

Ok, you know what? I have had it w/ all his bs! He came to the house tonight expecting to just come in and join the family, but I stopped him at the door. You were so right Orchid! WH is nothing but a cakeman. He acted all hurt that I wouldn't let him in but the kids have had it too. He's playing games w/ the money. I asked him for some cash on hand and he got all pissy.

And do you know that he's planning another trip to Cuba in a couple of weeks in April!!! He told me that he got his itinerary for the trip and was going to tell me about it. I'm sorry, but I CAN'T STAND THIS ANYMORE! Can you believe the nerve? Well, yes I guess I can since he hasn't halted one trip since November. My kids said that's it for them too. All three of them walked into another room after he came in to the house. They are even talking about moving into another house so we don't have to worry about all the work this one is going to need.

I stepped outside w/ WS and said if he wanted to talk to me then he needed to say what it is he wants in this relationship. He absolutely could not get past his anger. I just got up and said to him "I'm sorry, but I'm moving on w/ my life." and went inside and locked the door. I saw him a few minutes later staring into the door. I ignored him. Then he called from his cell and told my daughter that my sunroof was open to my car and I needed to close it. Not true. I just went about my business and now I'm here hoping not to explode! What the **** is his problem. He is living the exciting life he has asked for. I've told him he's free to go. What is it then?!

Hi lkjm3,

Sorry to hear of this incident but you seem more sure of what you and the children need.

You know that A is not all the glamour and fun we think they are having. Oh well....it is their choice and if you don't want to play that game, it is your choice also.

You are in a turning point right now. Your actions will be watched by your H and your children.

If they are old enough, sit them down and ask them what their thoughts are. Either collectively or individually. Maybe both methods will work. talk separately then as a family. Work on a plan as a family. Let them know you love them and need to stick this out together as a family.

Any OW in Cuba is bad news. Anywhere for that matter. But the immigration issues puts another kink in this already kinky situation.

Put your children on the alert and setup a warning system. Let them know that nothing is above suspicion.

My little one was 5 when this started and it didn't take long for him to give his dad a piece of his mind. He even asked me to go find him a real dad his since had abandoned us. Talk about out of the mouths of babes. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I was sure proud of him and to this day we are quite close. Every so often he asks his dad a few questions. I don't stop him or prompt him, this is what comes from his heart and I want it to continue that way.

Our son knows we love him but we are also individually responsible for showing love to each other. As family members we can remind each other of that point.

JMHO,
L.
ps: Hey, I am in Northern California, are you in this area?

Hey Orchid, thanks. You are correct that this a great place to vent. I was boiling last night.

As far as the kids go, we have had quite a few family meetings lately and I encourage them to express themselves to their dad in an appropriate and respectful manner. I know it is difficult for them to process the difference sometimes, but you are right about the kids being wise beyond their years.

This morning WS came over before school and wanted to take them. Anyway when the kids got home they told me that they did in fact give them a piece of their minds... all 3 of them! I am so proud of them that they felt safe to vent like that to him and express their displeasure about his ongoing actions. It is a fine line between expressing feelings and disrespect. Everyday I am trying to talk to them but it's so hard b/c it kills me they have to even experience this.

You know, I do think I am moving into a new phase now. I love the H I used to know and would like to work on and build a new and different marriage w/ him. I just hate the waiting.

I live on the west coast of Florida. I love northern California. I used to work for an airline and traveled out there quite a bit. And we have spent many vacations out there. As a matter of fact, I just ordered Peets coffee. We don't have Peets out here and their coffee is awesome! You should come out here to Florida. It's nice this time of year. I'll be going to Orlando in a few days to a Kay Arthur conference. Have you heard of her? She has Precept Ministries. I have studied her teaching for the past three years now and I have learned so much about the Lord. She is a terrific lady. Hey, again, thank you for always responding. I look forward to your replies. How are things going on your end? Has your life started heading back to normal? And aside from this site and reading lots, what things have helped you and kept you sane? See ya!