I seem to be doing great with Plan A, when I see my H at all. Actually, first time seeing him -- 72 hours after eviction -- was this morning.

We will be sitting next to each other at a concert tonight. Tickets bought before split. He seems waffly on email about our connection; I'm playing it open, pleasant, but a bit cool, I think. Got one chilly email about the "appropriateness" of us being together; I replied by saying it didn't bother me but it is fine if he can't work with it.

He never got back to me. Then I approached him this a.m. to ask what he had decided about tickets. He seemed nervous, strange -- like too much caffeine. He said he hadn't gotten the seats changed, which rather surprised me. He explained why he hadn't read my email -- he seems (even in chilly email) anxious to explain where he spends his time, and avoids mentioning OW.

Really, I'm tired of reading the tea leaves and chicken entrails to find out what he's thinking...

But what does Plan A mean under these circumstances? I'm pleasant, always, affable, kind, etc. But it seems like a spit in the bucket, and for all I know he's wildly fornicating with OW every moment of the day. That's why he moved out, after all.

<small>[ March 25, 2003, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

Yes, indeed. I have managed to stir up some nerve while I am watching SciFi's Dune & Children of Dune marathon since this morning <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . Could you imagine if I am watching the war instead ... LOL !.

It is misapplication of Plan A by Distress. It is collective wisdom of MB'er for not what to do during plan A.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Really, I'm tired of reading the tea leaves and chicken entrails to find out what he's thinking...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't even try, it would drive you to a phyco ward. Let him tell you and check it with his action.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>But what does Plan A mean under these circumstances? I'm pleasant, always, affable, kind, etc. But it seems like a spit in the bucket, and for all I know he's wildly fornicating with OW every moment of the day. That's why he moved out, after all.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes it is very hard on BS's ego. However you should look at yourself as a better choice then a spare choice. Enjoy your evening.

-rh-

I just left concert. He left concert to go to dinner with OW.

OW was there at the concert, several rows behind, policing my H. He was desperate to avoid conversation with me -- presumably because she might see? Or maybe just to avoid me?

Then he did something very strange -- he touched me affectionately and kissed me lightly IN EYESHOT OF HER!!!!! That was downright sadistic towards OW!!! It was the first affectionate gesture towards me in weeks!!!

My husband has ended each of his two previous relationships with triangles. I always saw some sadistic behavior -- but never this clearly!!!

This is starting to seem sick-o. Afterwards, when I asked if he was having dinner with OW, he said, "Perhaps." I said, "You don't know your own dinner plans?" Then he confirmed he was indeed having dinner with OW. "The relationship is going well?" I asked. He said it was proceeding apace. I said goodnight and left, after making arrangements for my stepson to be home when he comes by to collect a few things tomorrow.

Have you heard of anything this sick?

<small>[ March 25, 2003, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

She met my H outside. Her policing behavior really is weird in a relationship that should be new and happy.

And why didn't he just tell me he wanted to use our concert tickets to go out with OW (which is what I was kind of expecting)? He drove off in his car separately too -- it's all kind of weird.

You could change the title of this thread ... it would be easier since you are already post some tonight. I didn't know that WH has a trail of A, please read enablement link on my signature.

-rh-

<small>[ March 25, 2003, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by A.M.Martin:
<strong>And why didn't he just tell me he wanted to use our concert tickets to go out with OW (which is what I was kind of expecting)? He drove off in his car separately too -- it's all kind of weird.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't try to make sense what WH is doing. Just ask him but any answer from him is as good as any. Definitly WH is playing mind game with OW and use you. I am worry that your WH is a serial philanderer. Anything into WH's family background ?. -rh-

No, family background is absolutely ideal. Truly good people. Was married the first time for 20 years. This is his third break-up in 12. I think he's so emotionally needy he craves attention -- even jealous, needy attention. The bad news is, he's a taker and can't give back. OW is not strong and independent emotionally -- I am. I just can't play that mind game thing. There's something very strange about the energy in this -- this is getting too, too weird. I'm afraid he's not okay psychologically.

The way she was policing him is weird, too -- she should be full of herself. For example, it's entirely possible he talks a lot about me with her -- hence, she's insecure. He did that to me -- I thought it was insensitive; it's starting to look sadistic. This is not normal.

Don't know how to change the title of thread? Do you? Anything attention-getting will do!

How many A do you know he has have ?. How the A ended ?. You might have serial cheater on your hand ... Is his selfesteem ?. I only guess that he is very controlling man. He might want to show to OW that you are ok with his relationship and knowing her around the theather and left with her. When WS & OP get together, they talk about BS !. I had many tapes of my exW conversation with OM and they always had a topic about me.

Have you read Private Lies ?, please do. Please fillin ENQ and LBQ !.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Don't know how to change the title of thread? Do you? Anything attention-getting will do!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Edit one of your post, since you are the topic owner you are prompted with the title too.

You might have to get advice from the professional and if you could afford it please get it from MB. You might have serial cheater or serial cheater wannabe.

-rh-

More a wannabe, so far. During our "courtship," H kept talking about how wonderful Wife #2 was, etc., etc. I understood that he really loved her, and that she left him for another man, etc., etc. But it was a bit strange.

I thought it was insensitive, not sadistic. Now it's becoming clear it's part of a larger pattern of needing-to-be-needed. The thing is, the OW he's involved with can't take this kind of pressure, she IS emotionally needy herself.

This is all starting to smell pretty weird.

More weirdness: My H is practically impotent. And during the earlier part of A, was even more impotent with her than he was with me.

A.M.Martin,

Predator know well his hunt and know how to get close to her. His M.O is the same as OM, let pity be the start of the bond. He still has issues/bagages from his past relationship.

About his ability to perform in bed, that might be an attraction to most women where SF is not top of the list. Beside nowdays there is blue pill.

As you stated, their A might not last but would you take WH ? under what condition ?. No condition is not an option since you are enabling him to be philanderer in training.

-rh-

Pills won't work for him -- he's a stroke survivor, whose health is tricky.

Impossible to say on what terms I would take him back -- or if I would take him back. Meltdown has to happen first. I have to step back.

Should I be moving closer to some form of Plan B? Not closing the door, but protecting myself from detonation that's bound to occur.

Can pity be the basis of a bond?

Check tough love ... it is better than plan A/B when dealing with serial cheater ...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Can pity be the basis of a bond?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, indeed but it needs more than that to make a strong bond in R. You see, predator is taker, a very skillfull taker ... it will take advantage of giver. It uses pity to draw giver's emotion to give.

-rh-

Check tough love where? Is there any point? This all seems pretty hopeless. I don't see any evidence that he has any feelings about me whatsoever.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by A.M.Martin:
<strong>Check tough love where? Is there any point? This all seems pretty hopeless. I don't see any evidence that he has any feelings about me whatsoever.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Get the book "Love must be tough" by Dobson. In short you draw the boundry, refuse to fillin his ENs and set your H free ... until he is commited to work on M he is not welcome. Yes, it seems hopeless but out from this you have to learn something good !. I really sugest you to get conseling with MB since your case is way beyond me. One has to identify if he is indeed serial cheater. Hope we get some traffic, others probably could help you better.
-rh-

This is a man who doesn't know how to have a casual affair -- which this should have been. He gets it all mixed up. That said, he's been leaning this for years -- his sexual behavior has been sloppy and inviting. He is naive.

What I meant to say, is that my H is a man of enormous sexual inexperience and naivete, with enormous sexual opportunity, because of his alpha male-type role in community. This, I think, is the problem. Plus he has a whole bunch of unaddressed emotional problems.

It just occurred to me that my H is trying to NC ME! After a flurry of emails and phone calls from him after his departure, he ignored an email last weekend, which explained my thoughts and feelings, since he had asked (it was a kind letter, no LB). He has avoided phoning even when it has been necessary. My note made it clear I didn't mind such contact. It seems like he's trying to avoid contact, and at the same time seeking it. He had to come by the house yesterday; we made appt. for when I wasn't here. Then he lingered till I had to run into him. Could OW be insisting on no contact? Or is he afraid of me, because of his own internal conflicts?

The kiss in front of OW might have been inadvertant -- an expression of natural affection at a moment he thought was unobserved. It might be what he's feeling and trying to suppress in front of OW? Or is this wishful thinking?

Anybody out there have experience with this?

I sent him a short note last night -- apology for appearing brusque when I ran into him in the house. (I found out I had a flat tire and wanted to get my stepson to fix it.)

Redhat, I honestly think this guy is a "out of sight, out of mind" kind of person. I think if there is any, any hope of reconciliation, I had better keep up an occasional sweet, businesslike email, dropping hints but making no promises. Meanwhile, moving ahead with my life.

Anyone out there have any thoughts?