TOO MUCH COFFEE
what if I leave her in the house and get my own apartment...will it be any different???
she says that it is over between her and OM...I DO NOT BELIEVE IT!!!
How can I hope that she will open her eyes..once I am gone and want me back.. I cant see it happening!!
This is all wishful thinking on my part!She has been best friends with OM for a few years...
he is shacked up with a girl...(common law)...
for a few years and has a kid with her.. she has
a few kids from another relationship..and he loves those kids like his own... should be no problem with him loving my kids when and if he moves in...it just P&**esme off...she has no interest in saving marriage..I have to find the best way to get through all this..
again idfd I move out... what are the chances she will come back???

It might be the same to you and me, but in the eyes of the law, it probably is not and she may be in for a rude awakening (contact a lawyer to verify). Just imagine if she loses custody of the girls and she gets slapped with child support (don't laugh, it happened in my case with my ex-WW).

As I said before, most OM's are opportunist that once the time comes to put their money where their mouths are, they usually tend to high tail it out of Dodge before their MW(married women) know what happened.

TOO MUCH COFFEE
Thanks//'ll post after I speak to my lawyer...
I have done some major LBing over the last few weeks..I cant seem to let this stuff go.. even if she says that it is over with RATMEAT..Howe can it work out that she has to pay me CS.. she wil have a hayday in court on saying how much I don't do and can't do for the girls on a day to day basis..I will se what the lawyer has to say.. seems to me that she cant just up and move them out!!. but there has been a lot of arguing going on.. maybe thats her grounds.. maybe I'm upo S&*T creek!

MM-

Just windering how you are today...I read your thread and everyone gave the same advice that I would have...the only thing I suggest in addition is that you sit down and tell your little girl IN a POSITIVE non damaging way...that you don't want this, it is her MOM's decision, and that her home will always be with you...

I'm no MB pro, but here are my thoughts. It's very unfortunate that your W refuses to work on the M and wants to move out. But I say let her move out. Like TMCM says, hopefully the harshness of reality will wake her up. Stop speculating if it would be better if you moved out. She wants to, so let her, you keep the family home. There is no reason why you should be the one to move out if she wants to leave.

Jen

Yes, mm, keep the house! And maybe go to the local Home Despot, buy some good exterior paint, and spruce it up real nice so when your W sees it she wonders what's going on! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Think of it as a positive distraction that's also constructive for you future!

-2long (fka Qfwfq)

To all.!
My wife moved out last Monday with the two girls.
moved into an apartment.. the night before she left we had a bmajor fight about what she could take if she moved out...I came home the next day to find a moving van in the house and did not say anything to her. OI ended up hurting myself big time and I am lucky to be alive.. no going to go in to anything here..
I have only seen the girls twice since then.. Friday evening for supper andf a few hours..and again on Mothers day afternoon.
Lat night she called and was amazed how clam I was talking to her..she has said that I got it good by not having to do anything.. but she is the one who decided to move out..I would prefer to have the family together.. but afer hearing some mean stuff from her.. I have toi tell her that it's time to move on... She still is set on seperating and does not love me... what next do I do???? Just try be as nice to her as I can when she sees or talks to me??
It has been a very hard week.. one I never want to have again.. ever!!!!

MM-

Just remember we're here for you brother! You know, one way or the other, everythings going to be alright. You're going to find happiness again soon, just wait and see. In the meantime, keep working on yourself. By that, I mean concentrate on getting comfortable being independent. You're a runner right? How you ever done a sub 6 mile? A sub 5? Go for it! Don't be afraid to ask for help to control your anxiety/depression but keep working on that independence. Good luck and god bless you and your family!

MM-

I am so worried for you. I hope that you are okay. Yousaid that you hurt yourself. I've been there buddy, I know how much pain you feel. Remeber, you survived because God has a plan for you.

Please keep posting here and use this site as your support. You need an outlet and this is the best one that I've happened upon.

We definately are here for you.

Hugs.

MM you may be interested in applying Divorce Busting's 180 degrees list.

<small>[ May 14, 2003, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Marathonman,

I am sorry to hear this, but in the end, it may be for the best. Look at me and Mrs. Mortarman. She moved out last August. She has now been home for over 6 weeks and things seem to be going great. Go back to my posts and read again. See where things went with us, the LBs, the false reconciliations, the lies, the mean things she said and did, etc. But in the end, where is she?

I told you all along, and this was the hardest thing to learn...that this is a war. You just lost one battle. The war aint over. I thought it was last August. I REALLY thought it was over this past December. But after talking with my wife the last few weeks, I found out a few things.

First, what she was saying to me, and what was reality in her life was two different things. I asked her when she had decided to come home. She said she had begun to think about it within a couple of weeks after leaving. Huh? I didnt understand. Why did it take 6 more months? Why did she continue the relationship with the OM, when she felt like she wanted to come home?

You see...reality was not what she thought. The fog had blinded her, as it has your wife. But guess what? Now, she has to face it alone. Now reality will smack her in the face...the reality of what she thinks will happen versus what will really happen. Have you read Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley? the first couple in the book is pretty much like your situation and mine. The wife (Sue) also moved out to be with the OM. At first she moved out without the kids into an apartment. Then she was miserable, and thought it was because the kids werent with her, so demanded to come home and Jon move out. So he did that And she was still miserable. But it wasnt until the OM (Greg) realized that Sue just wasnt going to fully leave her family, that he decided to get out. Sue was devastated. But, she decided to see if she could repair things with Jon...and then they did.

My wife said pretty much the same things. For months, her OM was hounding her to get the divorce, to stop accepting flowers from me, to stop talking to me so much. He asked her at one point right at the end why she hadnt pursued the divorce (even though he offered to pay for it). She said she didnt know. But he said (and she knew) that she didnt WANT to divorce.

Did she say all along she wanted a divorce to me and OM? Sure. Did she move out? Sure. Did she say mean things to me, and make plans with him? Sure. Did she continue an adulterous relationship with him? Sure. But guess what? Inside her, there was constant turmoil. She didnt really WANT to do this...the fog had just blinded her to the possibilities of getting things back. She was stuck, with no way out. So, she put on the face for me, and for OM, and continued.

That face was easy to continue when I LBed. But when I finally stopped for good in December, a strange thing began to happen. My wife began to see reality, and could not ignore it anymore. She loved me. She wanted her life back. She still couldnt trust me to give that to her, but I had shown her enough good things in Plan A that she was able to at least think she had a shot at happiness.

The second thing that happened was that by me backing off, it made the OM support her fully. And he failed miserably. She began to see the truth about him too. She began to see what her life almost turned into. MM...this is why 95% of those relationships fail. THEY ARE A LIE, based on lies and propped up by lies. My wife admitted that she never showed her entire self to the OM over the 18 months of the affair. That is unti lI backed off. Once I pulled myself out of the picture, she relaxed and tried to make things work with him. But now, both are not on their best behavior. They dont have to defend themselves against Mortarman. All they had was each other. And both of them began to see that they really didnt know each other, and what they were beginning to see was not very appealing.

My point here MM is that this is not the beginning of the end...just the end of the beginning. In the recent Gulf War, the troops all new that all roads home led through Baghdad. They knew until they got there, they couldnt go home.

This war you are in leads through "Baghdad." You cannot shortcut it. But you sure as heck can get bogged down in small firefights, or get lost in the desert, and make this incredibly longer and more painful. I did…read my posts again. Go straight to Baghdad. The road is laid out for you. Do not be diverted, nor discouraged. Ignore the mess around you and concentrate on the objective.

Kily will be able to tell you that what I said about my wife is pretty much standard for WSs. YOUR WIFE IS NO DIFFERENT! Get that through your head now. Get your battle plan together. Do your "shock & Awe" campaign by being a GREAT Dad to your girls (she will not miss out on that), and conduct psychological operations on her (and I can help you put that plan together, in order to maximize your effectiveness in Plan A). NO MORE LBs. No more arguments. Concentrate on Baghdad. It may take six months to get there…through some awful tough times. But if you stay on plan, and keep focused on the end, you will get there. I think my military training, more than anything else, helped me get through this and stay focused.

Everyone here will help you keep straight and vent. But, in front of your wife and kids, you must be on your best behavior. No crying, no pleading, no arguments, no LBs. Finish out Plan A over the next few weeks to months, and then when she is full set up, you can blast her out of the water with Plan B.

Marathonman, I know the desperation you feel. I lost 35lbs in one month. I thought about "hurting myself" also. That is not the answer. The answer lies in the goal. I am living proof of what happens in this. You and your wife are no different. Mine moved out. Now yours has. You going to make the same mistakes I did and drag this out? And stay in pain? Or, you going to get on mission, and focus, and trust the plan…trust yourself…trust God?

What is it going to be MM? Make a decision right now! Then we can all help you get your plan together. I can help you in the Plan A, psychological operations part. It is what I do in the Army. And I have some stories for you in upcoming posts on how my psyops were received by my wife and the OM. They worked GREAT, although I didn't know how well until after she came home and told me. But at the time, I just trusted that they would work.

So, make your decision. With her gone now, it will be easier now to get a handle on yourself, so you can be on the top of your game when you see her. Your girls need you to pull it together. Your wife, even though she doesn't know it yet, needs for you to pull it together.

Get with it! This is only the end if YOU want it to be.

In His arms.

Mortarman
Okay... lets get to work.... pronto!!
My wife has said some mean things in the last week. the night before she left we had a real big fight..because of what i did I ended up in the hospital for two days.. I'm lucky it could have been two-three weeks...and yes I'm lucky to be alive!
Lets get to work on the plan..and really concentrate.. but let me ask you.. when she moved out and was with the OM.. why did you stay and not move on?? My friends are now telling me that I look better and should leave her behind and look toward a new life.. but in my heart I know that I love her... how do i know that she won't screw around again... I can assure you that she will never end all contact with OM..she needs him to work on the wheelchairs.. he's the only one around.. unless I can tell her to switch jobs..
but hey! that's down the road...tell me what i have to do now .. to starton the road to Baghdad..tell me your tricks taht you used.. help me do this right!!
My WW will not let me talk to the girls very much..she says that I am irrational..
But when I spoke to her I was very calm and did not LB at all... My mother is visiting for a few weeks and my WW called to ask if she would babysit..all the while yelling at her about how bad I was... but also asked why i was so calm...
she noticed already!! this is a start..No LBS, no yelling, ect..
So lets get with it and save this marriage!
Thanks
Its good to be back amongst friends
Marathonman

Mortarman
Okay... lets get to work.... pronto!!
My wife has said some mean things in the last week. the night before she left we had a real big fight..because of what i did I ended up in the hospital for two days.. I'm lucky it could have been two-three weeks...and yes I'm lucky to be alive!
Lets get to work on the plan..and really concentrate.. but let me ask you.. when she moved out and was with the OM.. why did you stay and not move on?? My friends are now telling me that I look better and should leave her behind and look toward a new life.. but in my heart I know that I love her... how do i know that she won't screw around again... I can assure you that she will never end all contact with OM..she needs him to work on the wheelchairs.. he's the only one around.. unless I can tell her to switch jobs..
but hey! that's down the road...tell me what i have to do now .. to starton the road to Baghdad..tell me your tricks taht you used.. help me do this right!!
My WW will not let me talk to the girls very much..she says that I am irrational..
But when I spoke to her I was very calm and did not LB at all... My mother is visiting for a few weeks and my WW called to ask if she would babysit..all the while yelling at her about how bad I was... but also asked why i was so calm...
she noticed already!! this is a start..No LBS, no yelling, ect..
So lets get with it and save this marriage!
Thanks
Its good to be back amongst friends
Marathonman

Mortarman
Okay... lets get to work.... pronto!!
My wife has said some mean things in the last week. the night before she left we had a real big fight..because of what i did I ended up in the hospital for two days.. I'm lucky it could have been two-three weeks...and yes I'm lucky to be alive!
Lets get to work on the plan..and really concentrate.. but let me ask you.. when she moved out and was with the OM.. why did you stay and not move on?? My friends are now telling me that I look better and should leave her behind and look toward a new life.. but in my heart I know that I love her... how do i know that she won't screw around again... I can assure you that she will never end all contact with OM..she needs him to work on the wheelchairs.. he's the only one around.. unless I can tell her to switch jobs..
but hey! that's down the road...tell me what i have to do now .. to starton the road to Baghdad..tell me your tricks taht you used.. help me do this right!!
My WW will not let me talk to the girls very much..she says that I am irrational..
But when I spoke to her I was very calm and did not LB at all... My mother is visiting for a few weeks and my WW called to ask if she would babysit..all the while yelling at her about how bad I was... but also asked why i was so calm...
she noticed already!! this is a start..No LBS, no yelling, ect..
So lets get with it and save this marriage!
Thanks
Its good to be back amongst friends
Marathonman

Mortarman
Okay... lets get to work.... pronto!!
My wife has said some mean things in the last week. the night before she left we had a real big fight..because of what i did I ended up in the hospital for two days.. I'm lucky it could have been two-three weeks...and yes I'm lucky to be alive!
Lets get to work on the plan..and really concentrate.. but let me ask you.. when she moved out and was with the OM.. why did you stay and not move on?? My friends are now telling me that I look better and should leave her behind and look toward a new life.. but in my heart I know that I love her... how do i know that she won't screw around again... I can assure you that she will never end all contact with OM..she needs him to work on the wheelchairs.. he's the only one around.. unless I can tell her to switch jobs..
but hey! that's down the road...tell me what i have to do now .. to starton the road to Baghdad..tell me your tricks taht you used.. help me do this right!!
My WW will not let me talk to the girls very much..she says that I am irrational..
But when I spoke to her I was very calm and did not LB at all... My mother is visiting for a few weeks and my WW called to ask if she would babysit..all the while yelling at her about how bad I was... but also asked why i was so calm...
she noticed already!! this is a start..No LBS, no yelling, ect..
So lets get with it and save this marriage!
Thanks
Its good to be back amongst friends
Marathonman

KILY/TMCM
Thanks to you both for your concern..Kily please how can I again get to you off the site.. I will explain more.. since you are the closest thing to my wife.. I will like to discuss this and get some honest input..
TMCM..I will try to stay in the house as long as I can..I have spoken to my wife a few times since last week..and have done a great job at not Bing... I did however tell her that she can bring the girls back and I will move out..I can change my mind though. Why not move out .. she pretty well took everything..
I have no concrete evidence that she is still seeing RAT MEAT..so the psychologist I am seeing is telling me to drop it!!'
The only thing I can do is to show my WW that I am moving on..
On the Divorce busters 180..too bad I did not see that a few months ago..maybe things would be diferent..but now I Plan A from a distance..
It's going to be hard road.. but I don't know what the outcome will be!! lets hope that things do work out for the best..
after I was in hospital.. My wife who actually saved me.. said "This does not change anyting, I am still leaving you!!"
this is one reason why I am lettingv things no go emotionally..and accept that the marriage may be over.. but in my heart..I want to beleive that there is hope!!
TMCM..
My brother and fellow knight
THERE BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD GO I
Take care and thanks

MM-

Send me an email at kily_MB@hotmail.com.

I will answer any questions that I can...

MORTARMAN/KILY/VETS
Got a call from our mediator last nigt...My wife wants to meet to discuss splitting of assets..
I would assume that this is not a real good thing for my hopes of reconciliation!
Don't want to do anything until I can talk to my lawyer..My stint in the hospital may dampen my chances of getting 50/50 custody of the girls...
How can I hopr to mhave my marriage back with a final and definite split of everything..
MORTARMAN.....Unlike your wife my wife does not call me..the last time I bought her flowers.. she did not takeb care of them and ended up throwing them out the next day...
If there is a chance.. I need you to get me on track with this plan... and save this marriage and family.
what next?

I just was reading thought your postings and the replies. All i can say to Mortarman is ....WOW. Awesome analogies.
By the way, my wife had an affair with a guy at her work 2 and half years ago. I have "fought" this war. I felt it might help if I contributed my experience. About a couple weeks after "D" day, I followed advice I read on the focus on the family website. I delivered the line to my wife as follows: "I realize that you chose to marry me by your own free will, and I would never desire for you stay married to me against your will.
I love you still and want the best for you. If you do not want to be married anymore, you are of course free to go". Now, it killed me inside to say that, I actually almost couldn't say it. Still can't believe I said it. Still get choked up remembering I said it. IT WAS'T HOW I FELT.
This tactic is to set them free. It worked for me, months later my wife mentioned that it removed a great burden and helped her to decide for the second time in her life that she wanted to be with me.

It is not that you detach yourself from your emotions, you just detach your emotions from your interactions with you wife.

You may lose a few battles, but win the "war". The real war as I see it is you wife connecting again emotionally with you.

Remember when you first got married, could you imagine not loving you wife or her not loving you? ? Can she now imagine loving you again? Feelings many times follow behavior. There is a quip which is "Behave you way to success".

Hope this helps.

<small>[ May 16, 2003, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: looking both ways ]</small>

LOOKING BOTH WAYS
Are you back with your wife?? what caused her to come back???
my wife does not really want to speak with me..
although she was suprised when I spoke to her earlier this week and was very calm!! she actually noticed!!
still she wants to split all assets and debts.. buy the house from me.. get me to move out and her to move back in!!
I guess what I'm looking for is direction in this war... looks like the lines are drawn in the sand, and she is onward!!
Is there a chance that shwe will still want to get back together... we have had some major fights over the last few months... I have no idea if she is spending tome with RAT MEAT...but the gut feeling is there. There has been no SF with us since Xmas... that is why I think OM is taking care of those needs.. therefore no need for MM..
direction please!!