It's been awhile since I last posted. Things have now went from bad to worse. My wife asked for a seperation. Continues to tell me that I have no blame in this, but feels that she doe's not love me like a wife should. The biggest problem I have is that she has done nothing to try and save our marriage. It's always been me to suggest MC or try and talk about OUR problem's.

I asked her again about an A, and she says that she would never cross that line. Even when I told her I knew who she was calling on the cell phone sometimes 12 times a day, she said that he is just a friend. The first 2 times I asked her about the # she lied, and told me it was someone else.

My main question is, when I came to the site this morning I found out that I was currently logged on, but a different name. So that tells me that she has visited this site, but has not posted anything yet. Should I see this as a glimmer of hope?

She has not stayed the night here all week. Been staying at her Grandmothers. Leaving after the kids go to bed, and comming home before they awake. She is away for the weekend at her best friends house.

Any imput would be great.
Mortarman are you out there, I would really like to talk to you.

Sorry, but I have not been following your story (there are just soooo many). I'll try to be helpful.

Here is my gut reaction to your post.

You are hurt and confused. In all that whirl going on inside your head and heart is a man seeking solid ground to stand upon. A place to begin his marriage. A place with a firm foundation, and without quicksand.

And, because of all this desire cursing thru your veins every minute of every day .... you do a weather check ..... you do another weather check, then another, then another, then another, then another .......

Minute-by-minute temperature-taking is a sign of neurosis. This is called "normal neurosis" by some. When you are in a dangerous situation, your "fight or flight" response carries you through. Bilbo, you have a full throttle fight or flight response going on .... and your equipment will malfunction, unless you give it a rest.

If you check the temperature of your wife's heart and mind every day (or multiple times every day) .... every "blip" above or below normal begins to take on monumental importance .... when, it's only a blip.

Here's my tip....... nervous people who are on fight or flight alert, temperature-taking constantly .... these people are exhausting to be around. She may avoid you unless you can show some calm strength and some fun-loving-guy!

Can you find inner resolve to relax? This relaxed posture might become something that intrigues and draws her toward you.

Stop taking the temperature of your wife's mood. It's anoying, and a waste of your resources.

Pepper

I am in a hurry, I have my 2 D for the week ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . It try to be short and I have to follow your old thread later and post again late tonight after tucking my 2 D to bed.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bilbo:
<strong>It's always been me to suggest MC or try and talk about OUR problem's.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know this is one of the missapplication of plan A. Never broght R talk up.

{quote]<strong>I asked her again about an A, and she says that she would never cross that line.</strong>[/quote]She has EA the least and could be PA.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Should I see this as a glimmer of hope? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you remember what screen name is that ? have you check the posts ?. Again in plan A you should not guess WW actions, it would drive you nuts and it is going to hurt you. You take WW's words and match it with WW's action. Otherwise don't guess or speculate.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>She has not stayed the night here all week. Been staying at her Grandmothers. Leaving after the kids go to bed, and comming home before they awake. She is away for the weekend at her best friends house.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She 90% she has PA ... if she doesn't have s3x for long time with you ... 99% she has PA. Sorry.

IMO. You should review your plan A. We become doormat with one thing in mind, buying time to plan A !. If you have done fixing all her complaint about you and she acknowledged it ... it is time to prepare for plan B. Could you elaborate more about you plan A ?. Her complaint about you and your action to fix it ?. Do you know who OM is ?.

-rh-

Yes I have checked her screen name and did not know her member #. So while still signed on I did a test post. I got the # then checked for posts. There are none. I don't know how long she has been regestered here, but would think that she is still thinking about our marriage.

She has stated time and time again that it is nothing that I have, or have not done. It is not me, it's all her. She even told someone that she could not ask for a better husband ?????
It's hard to work on me when she tells me this.

We even planned to move to another state so she could start a new career. Put our house on the market, and drove 2 states away to look at new houses. I thought this would be a new start for us. 1 week after returning, she told me that she didn't want a divorce, but said that she wanted to seperate.
She will be upset when she returns from her trip to her friends because I took our house off the market.

Yes I know who OM is. Someone she use to work with. I know his name, and phone #. I also know that he is married.

She left me an email before leaving saying that she was not in love with me, and that she didn't think that it was fair to me to stay in a relationship like that.

Like most people here, I just pray that she will open her eyes and see what she is about to do to our entire family.

Thank for any feedback from anybody.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bilbo:
<strong> Yes I know who OM is. Someone she use to work with. I know his name, and phone #. I also know that he is married.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gather date, time & place proof then call/notify OMW. Let A out in the day light. It is a must.

-rh-

The only proof that I have is the cell phone calls to his cell phone.

Is this one huge LB that has to be done? Should I call him, should I tell my wife? What have I got to loose I guess.

Should I also reply to her email and remind her of the promise she made me 8 yrs ago when we got married? What this will do to our kids 6 & 3? How we will lose everything we worked hard for? And why she hasn't tried anything to fix our marriage?

If not, how should I reply?

If you have the time and date when WS unaccounted for it is good enough. Get more proof if you can but not necessary. When I call OMW, she actually knows the A 5 months before I talk to her and there are even R.O. involved. This is one LB you could do, one time LB.

Review your plan A ... if you are done already and she behave like this ... you have to either send her plan B letter to reply to her. If you are still have some issues that you failed to show it to her then I would write plan A letter.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>And why she hasn't tried anything to fix our marriage?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because she shut LB$ for you and let it filled by OM !. Until then you have to chance in this M.

-rh-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Should I also reply to her email and remind her of the promise she made me 8 yrs ago when we got married? What this will do to our kids 6 & 3? How we will lose everything we worked hard for? And why she hasn't tried anything to fix our marriage? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No. She knows this already and you pointing it out will likely trigger more feelings of misunderstanding.

If you are going to reply to the email, considering sticking to statements that don't try to prove her wrong. I probably wouldn't even reply; relationship talk over email is far from ideal. Some suggestions include:

understanding how she doesn't have some of the loving feelings she used to have for you. That you know a lot of marriages can go through really rough spots like this and recover stronger than ever. That you believe that what the two of you have and the kids are worth giving it a try. And not just floundering out aimlessly, but following an actual plan.

I don't think much of what you'll say will make much difference considering your circumstances (W's late night activites)

I'm curious why you took the house off the market. The reason wasn't obvious. Are you worried about it being a ploy?

Basically, my advice for you is this if you want to save this marriage. DO NOT placate her guilt in breaking up the marriage. Be the best husband you can be for now.

But that is going to really require a decent Plan A. All I've noticed over the weeks is a lot of posts about "Do I confront W about A" instead of "what can I do to help marriage". I'd put the A on the back burner for now because it seems to be back on. You and anyone who's read your threads knows that there's been an EA and likely PA going on. You might as use the "intelligence" to your advantage and use it as a "cover" for your activities. And to prepare yourself for eventual revelation.

What you should really consider is a call to Steve Harley or some live person. You need some MAJOR guidance and this forum may not be the best thing for your marriage. The forum is great for onesie-twosie topics or support, but you've got a full-blown situation with multiple aspects to cover at once.

By the way, how is W accounting for all her time away from home? What does she say to you?

Ask her if she'd be open to spending some time with you. When she does be a fun guy. The kind of guy she fell in love with. Avoid relation talk during these "date" times.

Anyway, you have a lot of stuff going on and not all the details have come out here (another reason why a call to SH is better), but I wanted to shoot out some suggestions that might be helpful given a wide range of possibilities.

I wish you the strength to work things out and control your emotions at the right times. Things can get better.

Thank you everybody. To answer a couple of Q's, I took the house off the market because our plan was to sell it and move to another state. Right now she is unemployed and I think she would like to sell the house and have some money. My main reason for doing this is because I want to limit the devistation to the kids (mom and dad not together, and now their home is gone), and also let her know that I am not going to just stand by and let her run the show.

As for late nights, I know that she is staying at her grandmothers. I've called over there, and also me and mother in law are good friends. I know what your going to say, blood is thicker than water, but that is not the case here.

Waiting for more help and imput.

Redhat, sorry I couldnt understand the last part of your last post.

Don't just sit back and do nothing. Make lots of noise. If she met the OM at work notify his employer. Tell his wife what he has been doing. Phone the OM up and tell him that unless he stops all contact with your wife you will notify everyone he knows, even if you have to take a ad out in the paper. Tell him that you will shame him in this town. Show up at his work and hand out flyers telling his coworkers what a creep he is.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by redhat:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>And why she hasn't tried anything to fix our marriage?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because she shut LB$ for you and let it filled by OM !. Until then you have no chance in this M.

-rh-</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ March 30, 2003, 02:41 AM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>

I guess I need some seriose guidance here about talking to OM or OMW. Should I contact him first, or his wife? I know that this will be a huge LB, but are the ramafacations worth it? What are the pro's and con's about contacting OM?

Sorry about all the Q's, but I feel that if I make one wrong move then there will never be a chance for us.

Everybody, tell me what you think. Thankx

Bilbo,

You have missed Wat's quickguide ... link under my signature. Check the link under rule #2,3 & 9.

-rh-

Bilbo, what have you got to lose by bringing the A out in the open. And it is an A!
If talking to OM doesn't work, then go to his W! Definitely. This makes a lot of turmoil in the A for the OM and your wife. They find it so easy to deceive and lie when they're hidden from others, but out in open puts a crimp in the A big time.
The min I found out my H did a 180, well, almost but he never saw OW again! But I did let her H know immediately and that put the pressure on her for having lied and deceived him! She had to answer big time.
As for the advice on seeking a counselors advice, I think that is very important for you to do as quickly as possible. I know many can't afford SH so find someone you can afford!
Yes, bite your tongue and try as hard as you can to be the most loving spouse. If she still insist on leaving, let her know you love her and want to try to save the marriage and family. But you may as well allow her a little rope to find her way.
Refuse divorce as long as you can hold her off.
But once A is out in open, she will be angry as can be. But she'll get over it! It's necessary to do whatever you can to put a kink in their little fling so she can finally start to wake up! As long as it's a secret, they live in fantasyland. When it's out, they start to live in reality and it doesn't look as good! They finally have to deal with the real world!
I know your pain is horrible. I'm so sorry for all who are suffering here.
There are many here far more experienced in the plans, so listen carefully and I pray you find the help needed. You definitely need the counseling of a professional dealing with A's.
God bless and keep on keeping on. LouLou

The wife and me had a small discussion tonight. I asked her that since the move was off, why did she still want to sell the house. She said that she did not want to find a job just for a few months untill she could go to school. Also said that neither one of us could afford it on our own.

She asked me what I have been thinking since our last talk when she said she wanted a seperation. I told her that I was completly confused because she said that she did not want a D, but would like to sell our home. I told her that we need to sit down later this week on a night when someone can watch the kids, and think this through.

I would really like to hear some ideas about what, and how this talk should go. Most of my thoughts are LB'rs. Not only is this our home, but it is our kids home, how could you be so selfish. You dont want a D but you want to get rid of everything. and so on.

Also need some ideas on rules of the game in seperation. Dating others (to me this is an A). Contact or no contact with each other. Seeing each other from time to time.
Since I'm new to this game, I have no idea on what to do, or what kind of ground rules to set.

I really need to think about contacting OM. I'm just not sure how to do this.

Thanks for everyones imput, and I look foreward to reading more.

What are her stated reasons for separation? Is your behavior making things uncomfortable for her and so she is looking to get away? Just wondering, not offering any advice on this.

What I will advise on right now is contacting OM's W. Give her a call from an untraceable number and get a sense of how aware she is of the situation. I probably wouldn't blurt of "A" yet, but just collect some information to use to develop a more customized response. What to actually say? Don't know. But there have been numerous instances of contact between the BSs was useful and productive.

One possibility is offering to meet with her to ask some questions about her H. And see where it goes from there. I don't know how you are with this sort of unscripted setting though.

One of your goals would be to eventually determine what her reaction might be. Another is to coroborate any information/suspicions you have. A third would be to develop her as a future resource in order to help each other.

I think for now, keeping this under wraps will provide you with more flexibility and less pain until you know better about what you want to do. Yeah, I know this can sound similar to the reasoning behind hiding an A, but one is arguably a marriage-saving effort while the other is destructive.

I did similar "intelligence gathering" during my W's A and eventually shared with her the details, but this was after we started reconciliation (about 4 month after it occured). It turned out well in my case, but may not in yours.

I'll be watching this thread throughout the day, so if you are interested in more comments, let me know.

I'll add that you'll most likely do best for yourself with a Plan A mindset. I mention that with regard to the possibility of separation. Your preference should be that you do not separate. If you do separate, your preference is that neither of you see anyone.

But since there's usually a reason why one wants to date, you should try to avoid separation altogether.

Here's one thing that you should try to avoid as much as possible. Do not make it easy for your W to magically proclaim that she started seeing the OM after the separation. That's sort of a rationalization/legitimization boundary that will make things harder. If the A does come out, it needs to come out so that there are no questions about when it happened (pre v. post separation). If you need to confront OM in order to do that, then you'd have a lot of reason to do so. You may need to confront WS with actual sever consequences, but hopefully not.

Here's what I'm imagining is going on (I'd say there's at least a 25% chance of it being right based on what I've followed so far). W had A. Felt guilt. Broke it off. Couldn't deal with real life. Restarted A, maybe not physically. And now is plotting the "separate", "discover" OM, divorce, remarry.

Anyway, make it very hard for her to have A but not in overtly LBing ways.

BAD!!! A dear friend of mine called me to let me know that she is heading to my house to talk with my W. W was irate, because she just found out that I took the house off the market. I tried to tell her last night, but kept getting interupted by the kids. After the kids went to bed, W was in a hurry to leave. I just pray that their talk goes well, and that we can have a muture talk tonight without LBing. I seems that what ever I do seems to be the wrong move.

Next time try, "Let's talk after the kids are asleep. I have something important."

FWIW, I'm not sure what the point of taking the house off the market was. What's the practical difference whether the house is on or off the market? i.e. What was the benefit that you were willing to bear the risk?