Any advice most welcome, MBers.

H has been away on a conference for 4 days. He's phoned a few times and I had asked if OW was there and he said no. I have been increasingly tense and angry and have been hanging up on H's calls, not really understanding why. H has persevered and been nice,not angry.

Last night I was snooping for his phone to see who he had been calling on the way home.He came to see what I was doing and it all exploded-I demanded a separation. Classic textbook angry outburst with a handful of disrespectful judgements thrown in.

I packed his case for him.He came up to talk and we talked for several hours, he insists he has ended it and that he has been trying hard in the past few weeks and that he went away feeling in love with me and anxious to put me at ease by phoning me.

We talked a lot,he siad he had always and will always love me. He didn't ask to stay but obviously was shaken and didn't want to go.Said how much happier and confident I had been lately.
Even picked up SAA when I showed him, and flicked thru it.

I went to bed, H slept on the sofa .For 20mins. Then came up looking for a blanket. And I, in need of him, told him to get in our bed. And we held each other and of course , made love.And it was very loving for both of us.

This morning he has gone to work, without the suitcase, he didn't kiss me but looked nervously at me. He is collecting our daughter from gym as he usually does.

So my questions are

1.It is clear that neiter of us wants to be separated. Surely we have a better chance of recovery if we are living together.

But 2) will I appear weak and indecisive if a capitulate now?

unless 3) I negotiate with H-he can stay if he agrees to x,y,z. Maybe reading SAA, no contact, accountability etc. And I would make him a clear and solemn promise that if there is any further contact with OW that he doesn't tell me about, and I find out,I will insist on a legal separation.

4) Have I got anything to gain by sticking to my guns and initiating Plan B? I have no proof that he is lying about OW-his attitude to me, as I wrote in my post about real recovery, would support that he is truthful.

I don't really know why I have done this. Except that it released some tension and made us talk.

Any thoughts please?

And did you find any proof of continued contact on the mobile?

I said in my other post to you, why not ask him out straight to show you the call register or the phone bill. He surely must know how devastating this has all been for you, and that at times, you behave irrationally, because hey, you still don't trust him. He hasn't yet earned the right to be trusted, and if he truly wants to make things work, that's what he should be doing.

In response to your questions

1) Absolutely. As soon as my H moved out, it became increasingly difficult to communicate and his relationship with OW hotted up.

2) Not necessarily. You need to tell him that you need real shows of support (such as MC etc.) so that the two of you can move forward. I don't think it shows weakness if you want to continue, but it maybe shows this is his last chance

3) Yes, not weakness, but also the opportunity to set some boundaries. After my A was discovered, H would snoop periodically at various different things - bank statements, my mobile, phone bills etc. I had no problem with it per se because there was no contact and nothing to hide. Of course though, anything (and I mean anything) would send him into a tizzy.... that was the only thing I had the problem with - the verbal abuse.

4) You have no proof that he is in contact with OW. But, you have no proof that he is NOT in contact with OW.

I think potentially you could be on the verge of a breakthrough, but you need to be clear what your boundaries are and if your H does not accept them what you will plan to do. Clearly, this is damaging for both of you.

Take care and good luck

Lisa

D

<small>[ April 13, 2003, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: broken heart and arm ]</small>

Hi Deluded
You didnt mention whether your suspicions were right or wrong, or unconfirmed. In any case, it seems clear that you are far away from plan B & separation, both of you, as there's still a lot left in your relationship. that's encouraging. you dont appaear indecisive, but your 3rd question is very sensible, which is to jointly agree on a set of iron-clad ground rules which help to build up again mutual trust, and with a clear scenario painted, which will be that your relationship/trust will not survive another discovery. this point really has to be brought home, and agreed by your H. If that scenario becomes reality one day, well, check back into the MB clinic and we'll be back with advice <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

N

Thanks Lisa,Broken ,Nick.

I have no proof of contact but today I confirmed via a friend of H's whom H confided in that OW was not at the conference. That leaves the question of whether he phones her and in particular whether he was on the phone to her last night for 10mins on his drive home. I know it was not OW's landline-I called that and it rang. I know it wasn't her rivate mobile-ditto. I don't know her work mobile number. H had deleted all the call rcords on his phone. As it is an NHS phone, his call bills are paid by the Trust and therefore his bills go to someone in finance , hence my thread about how easy would it be to get his bills sent home, as we don't pay them. Some excuse about tax purposes maybe?

I spoke to H at lunchtime, he suggested I drop in at his office, so I did . He immediately blotted his copybook further by failing to introduce me to his secretary. I made it clear he had cocked up.We had coffee, I checked his email-pointless I suppose as he will have cleared it all knowing I was coming in.

I left. It feels so uncomfortable to be with him. I don't want to be hurt any more. I am very hurt by soem of the things that came out last night, eg he had sex with OW 20 times.!or so, I don't think he was counting, but working on the assumption that both smokers and alcoholics underestimate their addiction, it was more. That shocks me-I somehow thought it wasn't often, but in fact they must have been at it like rabbits when they saw each other! Why does that hurt so much more ? Once should be bad enough. And he confirmed what I had wondered but couldn't check-that on his late night walks, after D Day, he would phone her from the call box in the village as he knew I would be checking his mobile.

I know none of this should surprise me,I know that WS's will go to any lengths, but it hurts. How much more is there?

I'm going to take some time to just be for a while.And I suppose I need to set some boundaries whether he stays or goes. Plan B being if he goes.

Thanks again,
Deluded

Hey Deluded,

It's no suprise that you are still worried, nervous and worried some more after everything you have been through but you are doing great so don't beat yourself up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I know that I worry like hell about how much my W might or might not still be in contact with OM - after all she has never promised me NC. And even when I knew they were in contact every single day it hurt like hell. It still hurts like hell when I find out about some of the lies I had been told - and was continually told. I am sure there are still many things I am yet to find out. But I have to trust her (despite everything) for my sanity. I can not know what I do not know - so I have to trust her by judging, not just her words, but her actions, her behaviour and most importantly - whether I still want to trust her.

Right now I am not ready to give up (still stubborn!) and I want to trust her so I do. But I know for sure that there will be many more roller-coaster turns, highs and lows in our M. And maybe one of them will make me decide differently. I can't know that yet though.

I think Nick, Lisa and everyone's comments about setting boundaries is key - just remember what is a boundary today can become a cell tomorrow so don't feel bad about resetting them... just remember to do it together with your H.

And if it got you to talk and for your H to realise how hurt, yet still in love with him you are then take the positive.

Hang in there - you're doing great <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

bowd

dear deluded-

ok i'm popping over from queen's thread. I don't know your full story, but from what I've read, things sound like they are turning the corner, but after a long siege of repeated Ddays.

I'm guessing that you never got to the point of kicking your H out, so he went on with the A. However it sounds like he never moved out, and he has had ample time to make arrangements to do so. So was he doing a sort of cakeeating number or what?

And what is the deal with OW? I recall married, but her H doesn't know? Does her H know now? What is the situation? Does she have kids? Is she desperate to get your H? Does she live close by where she can be a constant easy temptation or far where to be with her would be a major disruption?
I think it may well be over- it has been almost a year and there's been no movement towards being together. I get the impression you were almost ready for a Plan B and now H is shaping up so you're having second thoughts.

I think it is simple. If H wants to stay, he has to be willing to meet your conditions and you need to spell it out for him. If you need his phone bill, then he'd better turn it over. If you want him to go to marriage counseling- well, if he wants his M, he'd better go. If he is only putting in a half assed effort at this date, then Plan B is the answer. You may need to make it clear to him in a very calm and loving way. tell him you love him and you want to recover your M together but he needs to help you. If he doesn't want to help you, you understand, but in that case he should go to OW. Make sure however you acknowledge any efforts he has been making. Also make sure he understands that these measures will not be forever, but that it will take a year or two of consistency for you to regain trust.

But it does sound like he's making big efforts. Telling you about the OW potential phone call thing, was a big deal and you need to reward him. Tell him you very much appreciate his honesty and that although you might get a little huffy you will try not to. Reward him big time for the honesty. He should tell you of EVERY contact or potential contact with OW and he should know you need this to regain trust.

remember one thing deluded if this OW is so great why isn't he with her right now? living with her, abandoning his family and the whole nine yards.
I think he is absolutely correct in saying he was more into the "idea" of her than the actuality. That's exactly what affairs are- a fantasy.

His behavior after the ski/meeting trip sounds good, as well as the socializing. But I would say, if possible to try to go on some of these trips with him. Even if it means alot of work or extra $$$ to arrange child care. Why should he be off skiing without you?

Just remember deluded, time is very helpful. A year or two of no contact will make a big difference. And remember- he is at your side, not hers.

Have you ever discussed with H the mechanics of separation and divorce? Child care, visitation, where he would move etc.

Thanks Bowd and Espoir,

Bowd, thanks for the encouragement, it doesn't feel like I am doing so great but I still don't quite understand why things got so bad this week-it must be that him going away is a massive trigger for me.Guess I didn't see this particular dip in the rollercoaster coming.

How are things with you? Is WW still pregnant, is she ok? Are YOU OK?

Espoir, thanks for popping over! You are mostly correct about my story, except that OW is not married but was in a 9 year relationship with a man who left his wife and 2 babies ,possibly for her but different stories on that one(she says not,her man says he did). Anyway, he found ou, not from me, and they eventually split in january so she is living alone now as far as I know.She is 36, no kids, career woman. In fact very driven, which my H admitted he liked in her, that she was so driven, always the first in the office, last to leave etc. She lives 400km away and although he has said she makes no demands, she has offered to move down our way to live with him,and commute to her job. he said he told her that was impractical. He would not move to be with her as his job / career is so important to him.

Yes, he is still with me. No he has never wanted to leave. He is /was a cakeater but I am hopeful he is starting to come out of his fog and I do think he knows this OW thing is not real. My problem is just that-my difficulty with trust when he has let me down so many times. But I supose I still don't want to be without him-I want to be strong and confident so H wanst to stay by my side. He said that he had noticed changes in me-so some of my Plan A is working.

We have touched on the mechanics of a separation occasionally and I think it makes an impact.But it usually degenerates into silliness such as who gets custody of the coffee machine-so I guess neither of us treat it with the seriousness it deserves until this time, 2 nights ago.

I still have hope. Do I bite the bullet, swallow my pride and hope he has stopped cakeating?

Better go have breakfast after 3 food related metaphors in one sentence!

Deluded

Deluded

I don't think this is just about biting the bullet and swallowing your pride. I think you have every right to ask for a copy of the bill. Explain that you need this honesty and real shows of him doing specific things to prove that he is trustworthy. As I said before, I had no problem with it, because I had nothing to hide. Also, why would he clear the call register?

On another matter, could you ask the secretary to forward a copy of the bill?

You need to know for sure before you can start working towards recovery, because otherwise, it will of course be false recovery again. I hope it is not and this time things will work out better for you.

Lisa

I agree with Lisa, but it also depends on you, what you can handle and what you want.

There is no perfect marriage, an A makes a big mess, and recovery is messy too. It takes time and alot of work. It is often one step at a time.

Your H has not left. has he committed to NC? Are you doing any kind of counseling? Is he remorseful?

I would not "swallow" my pride. Your H inflicted a grevious injury on your M. It is up to him to make amends, to work to heal the wounds. At the same time, you need to make clear to him what he needs to do. I would not let him slide by. Otherwise I fear you will end up with an incomplete recovery.

It's funny that your H says he admires OW's workaholism. I suspect that he would not really admire it in you. The moment you started dedicating yourself to a career, and stopped dedicating yourself to your kids, (which would no doubt mean that your H would have to step into the gap) I suspect your H would find that quality alot less appealing. Do you work outside the home?

While in the fog, my H said he liked certain qualities in OW- that she seemed "spontaneous and free" which actually translated into "unreliable, irresponsible and self-centered". I felt burned by his comments-here I've been stodgy Mrs. Hold down the fort for so many years. I don't rush off on a whim, I have too many responsibilities. Later my H told me he counts on me to do these things and very much appreciates it. He is glad he didn't go off with Ms. Flaky and realizes how superficial those qualities are.

I think that any erasure of call logs pretty much indicates continued contact. When the A was truly over, my H became very open with his cell phone. I don't check it anymore now because I know he's not in an A. However I do have access to our phone bills.

I think you need to say to your H, you're not interested in living with a lying cheater. If that is who he wants to be at this time, he needs to leave. You respect him too much to let him live that kind of a life. If he wants a loving relationship based on honesty with you, you are willing to work with him. It is hard work and it won't be easy.

I think it is more about your H making the right kind of "gestures". After all, he can simply buy a phone card and continue contact- but that is a hassle. He needs to make an effort, he needs to be a man, own up to what he did and deal with it. That means doing some of this stuff that he needs to do. In my experience, it's usually only when you firmly put your foot down, and demand change, that these guys will change. If they think they can get away with it, they will. I don't mean necessarily having the A. If he thinks he can keep you, and only put a half assed or small effort into recovery, he will. He'll figure why should I work at it?

Did you find that your absence in Australia had any effect on your H? I assume he had responsibility for your kids while you were away?

You mentioned that your H is immature, I know mine admitted that his A was really about growing up. It was a bit like a last gasp of childish selfishness. Hope your H grows up.

One other thing- if your H is critical or verbally abusive, the lovebusters list is interesting. My H realized that he was guilty of alot of LBs after reading the list. He has improved alot since then.

Thanks Lisa and Espoir.

My H is an expert at rationalizing-hence his reluctance to do NC letter because as he said, he could just tell OW it was coming and to ignore it.He will no doubt say that he could get another cellphone if I make him get the bills sent home.

I have mixed feelings. I do love H but am feeling very betrayed again as I realised that H has still had sex with OW even after I found out-for at least 6 months after! I know it makes no difference and is all part of the fog but it makes me so afraid to still try. How much can I take from this man?

When we talk, he says he knows that I can';t trust him and that if I can't get over it that is my problem, there is nothing he can do....

Espoir, I do work! That is the annoying thing. I juggle being a half time GP(family Doctor) with having 3 lively girls, running the house, paying all the bills etc. I have been unhappy and unsettled and directionless at work and H says I was miserable to live with. that may be so but that is no reason to have an A! SO! H and I are both Dr's and when we met we were equals. OW is not a doctor but she is very successful in her field(pharmaceutical company). They are both runners too, so they have that in common. H has dual standards. When I have been casting around for direction at work, he has encouraged me to do anything I want but I also know he would not like it if it impinged on him. We have a nanny but I am in control of childcare arrangements.

I think H is very immature-he hates the fact that he is 40. He drives a sports car, likes loud music and runs/cycles a lot. Classic MLC really.Sometimes I feel I have 4 children!

H is being very sweet and thoughtful this weekend. He actually took the girls to work with him yesterday am as I had to work unexpectedly and didn't even complain!.He is being a model husband in fact, and is praising me and making nice comments, cuddling me in bed this am etc.

All this makes me think the time is right to lay down the conditions for him to accept or reject.

1. radical honesty-including retrospective.I am willing to accept that contact has occurred with OW right up until today. But contact has to cease now. What do you think about another NC letter? he wrote one which I sent in Jan but I have proof that there is some contact since.-Valentine's day and the next day, by phone.

2. He is to arrange to get either a copy of the bills sent home or get the account no so I can access them online.

3. When we get broadband he is to arrange for all his email to be forwarded to his home email. He doesn't want to do this because-he says he gets sent big files which will take too ling to send aand he says if they are forwarded he has to answer them from home. I don't think that is true but its easy enough to check out.

4. He is to read SAA with a view to coming to MC with me in the near future.

Any other thought?
If he doesn't agree to these I think I will ask him to leave . I feel instinctively he is still emotionally involved with OW and is trying to keep her in the loop. But I also know that he never meant to get into this situation-he is not naturally deceptive. He loves our girls so much. He wants, I believe, his dual life-sharp young consultant vs happy Dad. I think he realises he can't have both. Interestingly, yesterday , just before I dashed out to work in the evening, I briefly said we had to talk. I alluded to the fact, lightly, that our separation hadn't happened wuite as I expected(meaning he was still at home and we are still planning things). His face fell and he said he will move out whenever I say. And a moment later he said that because I had been so horrible on the phone to him when he was at the Conference, he was rethinking whether he wanted to even stay. Classic lash out on his part-is it because he was hurt and shaken because he thought it was blowing over? The "horrible on the phone". Was mostly me hanging up onhim because I could feel me wanting to LB, and once when I was angry with him and told him he was inconsiderate because he had said he would call after his dinner and had not called by midnight.I think it is true that he has been trying hard with me over the past few weeks before he ent to BSH. But he has been nice before-for 5 months after the first D Day!. But I think I detect a difference this time but am not sure I can trust myself to be accurate now. I am quite uncertain actually -has he been in contact with her since 14th Feb or not? I have no proof, but he still said he wasn't sure if he loved"her, or the idea of her" in mid March! Which should have been a month after last contact.

Sorry I am rambling a bit.

Finally-remorse? I don't think I have seen any overt remorse , not that I feel he means. I have had the occasional " I'm sorry I hurt you" but ther is always a but on the end.But the H has never been one for saying sorry.

Deluded

Deluded

"When we talk, he says he knows that I can';t trust him and that if I can't get over it that is my problem, there is nothing he can do...."

This statement just does not correspond with the one starting "H is being very sweet this weekend"

I think this is an appalling way to treat you and think. There is PLENTY he can do to help you get over it PLENTY!!!! It is by his actions alone that you will one day begin again to trust him. Not his words, but HIS ACTIONS.. I'm sorry, it makes me so mad to see other WS's with such little respect or understanding for their BSs. I'm not an expert, but there were some things I just knew instinctively I had to do (and did immediately after d-day), even if I wasn't sure if I could recovery our M. This wasn't about me being a remorseful WS, it was about me realising the utter devastation and pain I had inflicted on my H and wanting to try and put that right.

The other thing is about the remorse. I grovelled every single time we had words - every time I kept telling H how sorry I was that it got to the point where he said to me "Lisa, you really don't have to tell me again how sorry you are. I know how remorseful you are". And this is a woman who never liked to admit that I was either wrong or sorry.

I think your boundaries are absolutely fair. Whilst I still think there are signs of light and hope for you, I still have a concern for you that contact is ongoing. Why would he so readily say that he would move out if he has said he wants to work on the M? I also think your gut feel and intuition is sometimes worth more than hard proof. I think the issue of the NC letter is not so important to be sent another it is more about knowing that he will proove to you that he has stopped contact. I never sent a NC letter, I just stopped contact because I knew it was wrong.

I am so sorry that you continue to be in this dilema and the pain it must cause you. I think that you need to take action, you need a plan and you must stick to it, because otherwise I fear that you will end up with more pain. Keep us posted.

Lisa

Hi Deluded,

just stoping by though not sure I can offer any advice right now. I'm a bit confused myself - will start a thread soon. Thanks for thinking of me tho.

bowd

I think I might need one of those 2x4's that are out there. I just can't bring myself to find a good time for the conversation we need to have. Last night H went for a run and asked me if I wanted to go for a run later-we couldn't both go because of the girls. I have only just started to run. Anyway H advised me which would be a good route and handed me his MP3 to listen to, saying he had preselected a song for me and set it to repeat. As I went out he told me to think about sitting on a balcony in London.Well the song was Kylie Minogue's "Love at First Sight" and the balcony reference was to one night about 3 days after we got together when we sat out and talked about our future and realised we were meant to be together. this is quite a gesture for my H!

He was then very interested in my run, asked me which song I had listened to but I told him and we left it at that. We spent a nice evening with the girls-I had a sudden urge to get H's guitar down and he and I both played it and the girls danced and it was a lovely happy family moment.The girls had never seen it as he hasn't played it for probably 12 yrs!

We had a meal together and then H had some writing to do and I paid some bills and by then I was tired.

So I've delayed doing what I need to do-talk to H and get tough.

Do I really need to do this and how? Will he capitulate if I do ? HOW do I get tough? Espoir, you said on another thread that you got tough with your H? What exactly did you do?

Lisa I know you are right about H, I think he was calling my bluff about saying he was wondering whether to move out. After all he could have gone any time . I am determined to NOT be hurt again. I just don't know what else to do. I am wondering if I should talk to OW as Espoir did with her H's OW, I would be calm and pleasant but point out to her that H has not left me , still lives with me and is intimate with me, is planning holidays and financial commitments with me(all true). And ask her what she wants from him, surely she deserves more than this?

Any thoughts anyone?

Deluded

Now why would you want to talk to OW? Do you think she is going to give you one inch of anything, be truthful with you? Remember what Shiney Head said to me? "You must have really low self esteem calling your husband's girlfriend". Do you think you need anything like that?

She will not make the necessary changes in your M. Only your H can do that. Sure, he's being nice to you, but hello!!!!!!! So he bloody well should be!!!! But more than that, he should be proving to you by his actions that a) he is not in contact and should willingly give you anything you ask for as proof, i.e. phone bills, e-mail accounts etc and b) being truly sorry for what he has done and committing to MC to strengthen your M.

Do you think this is alot to ask for? If not, why do you not want to ask for it? What are you scared of? Is it that you may find out again that he is in contact, or is it that you are worried he will leave?

Take care
Lisa

Both I think Lisa. I think if he refuses MC again then I will have to ask him to leave and I know that whilst we are together we have the best chance. H compartmentalises so he is able to keep OW separate from our life, whilst I am not! I am scared for him to leave , although I know I will survive, of course I will.

Re calling OW-I guess my motive is more to rub her face in the fact he IS still with me(Sorry Lisa I mean this very personally towards this particular OW). In fact I am sure that OW is a perfectly pleasant woman .I don't expect any truth from her. I guess I am trying to make her LB him!( A good friend of mine had an A with a married man and she eventually got fed up of being the OW and gave him an ultimatum-leave the W by such and such a date or it's over. It was over. And he is still married and she sees him from time to time and tells me he has a dysfunctonal marriage and she doesn't know why he stays married. All classic fog talk.)

Yes Lisa I am scared to have this talk with him.
But I don't think those things are unreasonable and I know that I have to do something, i just keep getting chewed up about things. Before my second D Day I was managing to come to terms with things because we seemed to be doing well.I struggle now with whether I will ever trust him. But I want to.

Hi deluded,

Thanks for your response in my thread, just answered to you back on my totally distorted situation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So I've delayed doing what I need to do-talk to H and get tough.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think it was essential for all of you to endure that happy moment and I know that in the back of your head you are screaming to talk to him and tell him that you can barely put up with this anymore. But that happy moment is food for thought in his head. You could have risked spoiling the moment by getting tough.

Those precious moments need to be brought through to him as precious, not as "we had a connecting moment, but then my W got tough on me". He then needs to face the music again. Of course he needs to face the music, but the moment needs to be right.

It seems to me like you are in turmoil in the sense that to get into recovery, do you need to get really tough with him/ go to Plan B or WHAT!?? You need to get him running after you. To stop and realize it is YOU he wants. As of everything I have read it is probably inevitable that one does do some extent of a Plan B to get the WS to turn around.

Right now he is kind of happy with the situation and feels like his actions have no consequences. He rules!! But he does not, we know that and he does not!

I have a few questions for you;

1) Do YOU think you have been Plan A:ing enough to feel comfortable in giving him some tough love. Going to Plan B. Laying out the map of recovery?

If you do and you feel that you have given everything you have got and need to protect the love you have left for him, do it.

If you don´t. Make a time frame you are comfortable with. Give it ALL you have got. No guilt trips to him, Firmness in the fact that you are still hurting, creating scenes like last night with the guitar and you D`s. Then as soon as the time is up - Give him the tough love.

I think it may work like shock treatment to him. The way his affair was shock treatment to you.

To recover I think both partners need the shock treatment because BOTH have to feel like they almost lost everything and only then can one appreciate , really appreciate what they have got.

My situation was a bit like yours before the weekend. I am so astray as you know, right now. I do regret now what I have done and do not know how to fix it. I have just made things even more worse for myself.

You are like me I think in the way you are handling it, except I´ve just made a BIG BIG mistake.

Take care, you are on the right road. I am certain.

-queen-

Is this good news or bad news? Can't make up my mind...

H has been very attentive, thoughtful, we had a good Easter, he actually bought me chocolate-hasn't done that ever I don't think!
We have both been working together on making our house nicer, gardening etc.
H has been encouraging me to write-it's what I would like to branch out into and he writes a lot for work-and has been VERY encouraging and praised me.
He has been sending me details of all the meetings he gets asked to go to....told me about one in Monte Carlo for the drug that OW's company makes-told me he is not going.
Last night he asked me twice if I had checked my email-I hadn't.Today I read it-it was a copy of an email from a girl he went to school with.I knew that she was back in the |UK with her husband and kids after living in OZ.She is keen to meet up with him and they had met with 2 others in Nov last year in his home town. I knew about this and in fact snooped on him with his Mum helping me to ensure he wasn't meeting OW.
Well!
The email he sent was innocent but there are a whole lot of previous emails which are very flirtatious-she is very flirty, describes her self,they have an ongoing flirtation about what you could do in the back of a car, nothing specific but sexual innuendo.She is more upfront than he but he encourages it.
So, incandescent with rage, I phone H and manage to speak nicely to him, tell him got the email and that it is inappropriate and what kind of man has he turned into? I say I feel I don't know him anymore. He said he knows, but it's an old friend, nothing ever happened between them apart from a snog at school,and he pointed out that in the interest of being honest he decided to send it to me.Huh?
So I asked how many other women is he having this sort of correspondance with, he said none. I mentioned another name-a young colleague of his who is 6 months pregnant FGS!2 weeks ago I couldn't get H on his mobile when he wasdriving home from a meeeting at 9.30pm. I asked if it was OW and he said it was this woman and she had phoned him to talk as he had told her things were bad between us (see prev -the last conference).He had confided in her as he had noone else to talk to.
He now says that actually this woman was overly friendly to him and that he has kept her at arms length, and he couldn't tell me that then because I was already about to throw him out over OW.(although I had no proof of ongoing contact). He is telling me now in the interests of honesty he says.

So MBers HELP_how do I interpret this-his actions are genuinely good, I feel reassured by this. But is there an OW 2 or even 3? Are these harmless flirtations related to his MLC?

I always liked the fact that H is atractiveto women but it just seems as if the whole world has gone mad, doesn't anyone respect marriage vows anymore? Where are the boundaries of what is appropriate behaviour.

H has been invited to the schoolfriend's 40th, not sure when it is. If it is both of us, should I go? If it is him, I think I will put my foot down and categoricaly say nohe can't go.Do you know, he referred to me as "the wife" or"wife" and she to her H as "the husband" through every email, neither of us mentioned by name.

I am VERY VERY ANGRY but don't want to overreact. Fortunately H is away for 3 nights now and it is definitely not a fun meeting as he knows no-one.

What should I do ? What does anyone think? Please help anyone.Especially oldtimers???

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