I so appreciate everyone's responses to my son orginal post about his justification maintaining a friendship connection with the 40 year old woman he met at dance club, who is still actively pursuing him.

How are things going? Your son certainly maintained the position that there was nothing besides friendship and that he was more than adult enough to handle the relationship.

Thankyou so much for checking in and for your concern. Last night was especially painful evening.

Micro status update on how we are doing?

CRISIS MELTDOWN!

Sadly my son has chosen his decision to destroy our relationship, in preference to carry on his woman friendship and other his unacceptable behaviors/treatment of women.

I will not deal with degradation. I can't begin even to discribe the trechery tragic nightmarish tradegy ordeal we went through that broke down marriage /family structure by my STBX sick behavior.

The long haul of fighting back and process of regaining our emotional/mental health back has been unbelivable.

Sadly, the under tow gravational pull of his dad path of disrespect towards women, self-centered selfhisness comes before values, seems to be overidden.

I am saddened to say my son has chosen to act out. Seems our efforts to throw our forum collaboration efforts of coming together to "reason the matter" prefers to opt to pursue his entanglement with this older woman instead at any cost.

I am disappointed to say the summary of our week thus far has resulted in his spurious contemptous of hatred towards me. I am now his primary target for his unmanagable anger/issues.

Providing a qik snap shot. His last night's statements thundering remarks to me were that he wanted to see me dead, wished that I would have a heartattack and die.

Long version explanation of meltdown events:

Sadly my son has somehow in between last week and this week he decided to shift gears and direction.

Last Monday night he sought out his father alliance the other evening to find validation for his disrespectful behaviours towards myself and daughter and of course his justification of his woman friend.

Stbx lusts appetite seem to have been wetted, our son now seems to have perceived value to him now. From my prespective it appears that he see's our son now as serious player now with his older woman which allows him into the game& hunt and now is giving him full attention, support, wining/dining.

Summary, wants my son to leave the house immediately to move in with him where he will be free too, to pursue the lifestyle with out hassle.

Tables seems to have turned around. It would appear that I am now the direct target/source of all son's problems.

Whoah pandora box has become open and medusa rears her ugly head. The situation feel like an unexpected ambush has taken me back but never imagined the situation with this other woman would spin out of orbit so quickly.

My son has sought to enlist his father alliance and the perfect opportunity for my stbxh has been waiting for. To come along his side. Seizing the situation to sadly drag him down. STBX the other evening over dinner/drinks with his dad.

Suggested to my son he move out immediately, he wasn't paying support payments for my disapproval issues, and to be done with me, come live with him. Basic underlying message connotes;
free your self and be free with me to pursue the "lifestyle" together basically.
STBXH validates according to my son his friendship with this woman.

Highlights of the weekend/week:(Wondering What The Heck Happened?)

Friday night my son came home in quite high spirits after being out with his work colleagues, arrived home drinking a bit to much. One of my girlfriends pops in for an unexpected visit and he joins our conversation. Begins to unload his frustrations and issues he is having with his sister with us.

I have been aware he and sister are been out of sorts, having issues for a few weeks now. Offered my support and both my kids request that I stay out of it.

Trust they will handle it themselves. I respect each of their decisions,privacy, etc. But leave open door/open ear should they need support.

Leave matters entirely in their capable hands.

My girlfriend and I sense his disclosure is well out of line. Inappropiate for her ears and we both attunded that their breach issue is more deeper and very personal family matter to be treated so casually. My son continues to go on, we disconnect our visit asap and she politely leaves.

I am focused on his concerns about his sister listening attentively to his, venting his pent up frustration and giving him my full undivided attention to get things off his chest.

We are right in the middle of this conversation when all of a sudden, the winds of negativity mood change blow in and he shifts. Next thing I realise while I am in the middle of a sentance responding to his hurt over his sister, saying in a calm fashion that we three really need to sit down together and talk/walk this issue through. Have my daughter present at the table, get her perspective, side of things and do some resolution.

In a nano second, out of nowhere the older woman (the coug predator,as I call her) interupts our family connection. My son suddenly brushes me off like I was a mosquito landing on the table. Whoah...

I am amazed at her timing/aggressive tactics-in a split second. Sencing that we now have entanglement thread, emotional storm clouds have moved in.

I said to my son in a calm slow gentle voice sitting across from me, with her on the line present stated that I feel disrespected and do not wish her calling on our telephone resource anylonger.

I was surprised my son immediately reaction repeats to her what I have said in a kind tackful manner. Saying my mother feels disrespected, boundries crossed and does not want you calling here. (I assumed he would tell her some other time and carry on his conversation.)

He is talking to her she simply keeps talking to him. Suddenly a major shift happens within another nano second.

My son shuts me down, disregards me, abruptly walks out of the kitchen much like a remote control programmed zombie (seemingly leaves his personality) while talking to her. Chooses to carry on his conversation he continues to walk towards my bedroom/goes to onsuite bathroom locks the door and carrys on having a private conversation with her for some time.

I am stunned by the sudden shift in personality, glue grip this woman has on him and that he bypassed the main bathroom.

Wondering to myself what on earth has happened. I walked into my bedroom because the dynamics shifted into something I never quite seen between the two of them and sensed emotional storm clouds were collecting rapidly.

All I can overhear is him softly speaking to her about something in quite a charming/caring attentive voice. Change in his complete demeanor--Humm--does this ever sound like an (EA) behavior encounter. Not wanting to overhear the rest of conversation details.

I felt I had heard and seen enough of how this deeply troubled woman operates on other levels which raise red flags, with her obsessive phone calling, emailing, setting up times to meet him the club and dance.

Ok.. ah my son is her recreational partner,companion. Interesting.
Discovered she confides all her men problems with him and personal dysfunctional family problems no doubt about it she is using her feminine wiles in full force.
Check.....

Her seeming power over him really took me a few steps back. If it were such a plantonic innocent frienship as my son portrays it is for why lose his bearings and composure it everything was so above board, and if a deeper attachment issue is not present.

Time for more re-processing and reconfiguration on my part of what to do next? How do I handle this? As it is his choice, personal doings of entering in the relationship with her and his personal battle within?

Replay forum comments in my mind, my son made regards to other 40 ish women trying to pick up and brushing them off. The accounting simply in this case doesn't add up.

Systems check, everyone responses on the board was excellent sound grounded feedback that if he is being "naivee" or in "denial".

The oppournity to discuss, or become informed on the forum, board is a gold mine avaible to make good judgements by becoming better informed.

Next thought that crosses my mind is the lack of response on his part entrapment/bondage to this woman and her hooks are deeper in him than he realises, or cares to really radically honestly admit.

Questioning period time for myself, where do I draw my boundries and implement them. My internal dialouge and alarms were going off in every direction.

Collected with thoughts, I walked away and shaked my head feeling quite hurt, highly disrespected to be treated with such disregard.

Replaying his behaviors what I become aware of is observing his lowering his boundries, dropped his armor, and left him self most exposed/vulnerable wide open. His lack of self awareness/self protection was dishearting to watch.

However, mindful at the same time of his wanting to handle this "frienship" on his own left him to his own rightful automony. Feeling most annoyed but in a calm state left the area waited until he came out of my room.

I said nothing to him but politely emotionally disconnected, waited until he left my space went to my room locked my door and went to bed. Thinking to my self how disappointed that he choose not to respond to Redhats last comment to him, which my son read in absolute silence and refused to comment anyfurther.

Highly unusual for my son to be at loss of words or to not exchange further banter to arrive at least to find out what his beliefs are all about.Not his usual style.

Conversly, I felt saddened that my son chose to omit a great many details other about his woman friend emotional bond connection on the discussion board. Can understand a relucancy to tell all and saftey issues as well.

I was hoping he would feel comfortable to be able to share more indepth about thier relationship to gain a greater persepective to assist him with his discernment process.

Wondered about silence response and complete shut down, indicating perhaps on some levels that he needed his space to digest/process his thoughts more, as it appears Redhat's views presented other issues as well that struck a deep cord/wound over the impact of the my divorce is having on him, which was quite visable on his face.

I respected his space to do his processing and presummed he would get back to everyone when he had objectively did more soul searching.

Next morning I went to my counceling session where I brought the issue up of the woman obsessive underlying friendship motives and to express how deeply damaged my son is by the impact of my STBX illict behaviors/divorce.

My therapist red flags of concerns also came up.Suggested my son/I come both come in together to work things through or will see him seperately.

I was delighted for our therapist support. Am happy for the positive male influence for him to help him work through the issues/address his father'issues on male professional level.

I come home from my appointment and immediately my son is awake chooses to turn on me and critize me for not doing the dishes before I left. He does them and slightly angry at me feels hard done by. I simply thank him for doing share/part in participating in the family and share.

I exchanged the info about our counceling session and info that councelor would like to see us/or him indiviually to help reach a mutual understanding/resolution.

My son sneers at the invite, rejects it and sensing his defiance mood. I emotionally disenaged from friendly chit/chat, disconnect, walk away and left him alone to do his thing.

Later I went up to him to let him know that Redhat had connected earlier in the morning while he was sleeping and wondering how we were both doing since all of sudden silence.

I handed him a copied/pasted printed out for him the soul touching prayer written on his behalf
and share comments for him from redhat checking in with him. My son read his posting and reads his encouragement for my son to seek out positive role model men like pastor, coach etc to help him through his validation of positive male hood....

My son was deeply touched by the prayer and his heart softens considerbly. The rest of the day I just let him have his space. Feeling the emotional temperture of our home later on I could feel the tension pressure heating up.

Mindful for myslelf to compose my emotions concentrate on other things.

Saturday eve my son his dad make arrangements to have dinner at his house. My other girlfriend drops in unexpectantly and is spending the evening. When my son returns he steps in his extremely arrogant role in front of us and assents now in deeper hypercritical mood of me goes to the kitchen to do an inspection.

Tried to deflect override his mood and I pleasantly ask how his dinner was. Appears he is absorbs his dad's persona becomes cloned. Typical when ever the two of them connect, sadly my son looses his idenity turns into his dad and begins to center me out again.

Starts his usual campaign to find something to critize me about opens the frig and starts in on me for the frig being untidy, in front of my friend.

I am trying to ignore his mood/petty critizim and walk away. He goes out for the evening with his friends.

Next day I prepared a lovely brunch invited my daughter and son,to come to the table. He arrives cold arrogant and locked into his hypercritical mood. Pressure is mounting tension most uncomfortable with his cold vibes.

My friend and I are simply keeping calm keeping up spirits with her birthday celebration and my daughter is being her lovely self. Later I clear the table and the children retreat to thier rooms, and I return my focus to my friend and relax.

My son comes out of TV room, disrupts our conversation and begins critizing me for not doing the dishes.Complains now that the kitchen is untidy and tells me that I am now adversly affecting his mental health.

Opt to deflect with a bit of humor, as it takes days for him to become released from his dad persona. My son is still angry. My friend joins in trying to reason with him telling him when he has a family that people always come before housework. Shares a short cute poem on dishes/company. We are both trying to diffuse the situation with humor. He becomes more irritable, moody and intense.

My emotions on the other hand are now collecting. I have had enough. I am feeling manipulated and he will not relent his behaviors. Am cleaning up the kitchen, friend leaves and invited me to her home in the country for supper to spend her birthday with her family. Invites my kids but they chose to decline. The party continues.

Since the tension levels are so high and escalating. I have decided that I will remove myself entirely for the evening to dismantle the emotional tension that will not relent. Black hole of moods have appeared and decided I didn't want to be around him be around him. Time for diffusion.

Rushing to quickly get the kitchen cleaned up/dishes, dressed to ready to leave. My son suddenly plops down at the kitchen table doing his homework. Shifts his mood.Ask if I want to hear him read a poem from his text. ( I spend a great deal of my energies in listening to all his poems, school assignments, etc, which are wonderful to listen to especially his poetry.

Feeling actually worn out from the accumlated late nights from our chats, and feeling I need space...)

Unfortunately, a scarastic comment slips out of my mouth, which I wish I could have controlled bit my tongue a bit longer as I was a second out the door and completely away from the situation. Said perhaps the most horrible thing by detaching and said no I didn't want to hear(for once) and perhaps his lady friend would be happy to listen, walked out. I am feeling so drained.

Next eve when I return home my son is gone. I went to bed and am going through another of my PSTD intense nightmares eposides again, trying to wake my self from the deep terror sweats from the nightmares. Feel like I am being suffucated, choking, can't breath. Struggling, to wake myself up. Tell myself to get a grip, let the dreams pass.

Walk in to the kitchen walk past the TV room, my son is sitting there in smouldering anger ignoring me. I walk past him and to bring my self out of the uncomfortableness, distract myself and go for a drink of water, am trying to calmly pray, and the tension in the air is so thick. Decide to confront the situation, walk into the TV room to let him I feel hurt/most disrespected by his treatment, endless uncalled critisims.

My son tells me in a very rude/defiant manner to get out of his space and to leave. Tell him that I will not be treated in this manner in my own home and that his behavior is out of line. He becomes extremely billergent towards me and by this time.

Proceeds to tell me since I didn't come home that he called up his father to take him out for dinner/drinks to vent about the comment I made him in not listeing to his poetry and all about the tension at home, and his anger that I am meddling in his relationship with his new lady friend. Well I have shared what gest of his father conversation back was.

I fell right into the a emotional trap and said I felt Most disrespetected and now quite betrayed, especially when ever avenue is open to discuss our family problems/issues with counciling which he has rejected.

The situation now is extremely hostile towards myself.

Called the women shelter crisis line to have mobile crisis unit for suggestion as to his mental health assessment or provide council of what needs to happen as major lines have been crossed.

I am feeling saddened that my son has not chosen the highroad, rejected counciling and am just emotionally exhausted and with his dad on the scene. I can only imagine where this unhealthy trigulation issues will lead between my son,his woman friend, and now exposing himself/friend to his dad involvemnent.

I am wearied by the trynany, prayers so needed at this time.

The handwriting is now on the wall

mayflower, How old is your son? First, if he is not of legal age, there can be a suit agains thiw 40 yr sold woman for messing with a minor! Check your state laws.
Secondly, if he's of legal age, then time to let him go to dad and learn his lessons the hard way!
Dad will most likely not like having the responsibility if he's involved with someone.
Part of the fascination of an A is having your privacy! So let son go get in the middle of dads little dream world!
The more you go against son and the 40 yrs old, the more you are going to alienate son and push him into having his own way!
Believe me, you can survive when children start to disrespect you! I have a married daughter, two grands and she uses the smallest excuse when she can't control our lives to black mail me with the grandchildren.
What have I done now? Well, I used to cry and grovel to see them. NO MORE! For I am innocent of her accusations and so is her brother. She has treated us with disrespect for the last time because it's not going to be allowed.
So be it! We don't need the turmoil and chaos anymore here!
Same with your son if he's legal age. You have to let go because you've no other choice!
He is mermerized by this older woman and sounds to me like it's way beyond EA! I'm sure he's involved PA and thinking with his zipper and no brain! Probably thinks he has the world by the tail. But he will wake up very disappointed.
Quit arguing, quit trying to change his mind and let him learn the hard way. Those lessons are the only ones that stick for life!
The consequences of his decisions may hurt him badly,but then you cannot control him or anyone else. Believe me, I know as a mom it hurts. And we want to protect.
But once they are of age, it's out of our hands.
Concentrate on healing you and finding new life for you!
God bless, LouLou

mayflower,

I know you love your son so much but you need to let him go. Use tough love. Set your boundry and tell him his behavior is not acceptable if he choose to leave it is his choice and don't create environment/excuse for it, just leave. He is 21 yr old boy and he actually try to break up the bond with you ... it is healthy except he loop up to the wrong crowd. Stop being his mom otherwise he will be mommy boy and that is not healthy either. You did your job to teach him the right values (it shows once in a while) and it is up to him to grow up to be a man and live the consequences.

I know my questions ring a lot of truth that he knew for a fact already. He is a good boy but he needs to grow up to be a man.

How long were your plan A ?, ever go into plan B ?. My guess is that he felt that you were a doormat and he couldn't accept your action. You need to explain it to him and don't let him disrespect you. You did your best and those "doormat" stuff was not for a whimp. You did it for your family and don't dare they disrespect you. The outcome is not the same but you did what you have to and it was not under your control. If he feel that the kictchen is dirty, why the heck he didn't pick up the cleaner and clean it the way he likes it, you are his mom not his servant.

This is what I suggest you to do. You should set boundries and tell him that he is a man not a teenage anymore and take some responsibilties. Tell him that you do this because you love him and don't want him to have the same mess and mistreat other woman the same way. It is his choice. Meanwhile you have to stick to the ground and no LB. Don't talk no more about his R don't advice him no more. Don't protect him, you have to let him go and let him learn on his own ... if he want to live with the father or the woman, let it. Let his father take his crap or let the woman take his treatment. Life Law#8, we teach people how to treat us (Dr. Phil). Understand that A or Dv impacts differently to different people and it could show up 25 years from now. Let him go but let him know he is loved and he is welcome anytime at home as long as he is acting like a good son.

Watch today's Hallmark Special movie on TV and bring a tons of tissues.

-rh-

Thanks Ladylou for sharing and opening your heart/personal situation regarding the struggles with your daughter. Tough love is definately strong love isn't it.

What a challenge parents face in trying to equip our children to fly.

My son is 21 yr old. Because he is of legal age no laws prohibt this woman predatory attachment. Complex...

When the emotional entanglement connection with the 40 old woman began, we naturally had a discussion trying to reason the morality logictics/appropiateness of the R with this woman ulterior motives for aggressively pursuing him.

Since we are quite polarized on matter, my son suggested we bring the matter to forum board to gain a greater prespective in our attempts to reach a healthy resolution.

If you would like more background. Please see my son's posting under my user name-part 1) where my son shares his side/motivation for pursuing a so called plantonic relationship with this woman/feedback he has thus far recieved.

You are most welcome to read part of his dialouge.
I am not sure how to retrieve the posting probably a few pages back. Under my son has a question.

To clarify I have no objection in his wanting to leave home since as we know it is natural normal progression course of life between parent/children. We leave to cleave & keep the legacy going and flowing.

Grown children leaving the nest I believe with all my heart should be on good terms and blessings. Adult children leaving with their baggage and heads up high.

My STBX behaviors/wrong doings have caused a great deal of hurt, damage/confusion. My son especially is most wounded/acting out. I am feeling so angry that his father supports his confusion. I just feel grief.

I have known my STBX quite well especially when he was 21 yrs old himself and see quite visably the foolish choices, wrong companions, wrong direction that destroyed him and all of us. My motivation has been and is to hold out the danger flag and to avert harm/take a better route.

Guess this is my problem and best for me to completely retreat as it was my STBXH choice to run all the red lights of life, my son too has this right being an also an agent of free will.

I am of the belief as parents part of our role is to teach our children to be alert and understand who/what predators are, there schemes, how the operate in life to avoid to recongise them when and build in self deteched radar screens themselves to avoid self harm.

My prayers/aspirations for my son and my daughter would be able to address their wounds and heal from the damages and avoid uncessary heartache.
I belive there is a better ways to deal with a broken heart than doing things to make matters/damage worse.

Heard an thought provoking statement once if I do recall correctly. We spend the first 20 yrs or more of our lives collecting/creating baggage unto ourselves and then spend the next later 20 yrs or so of our lives trying to get rid of all that baggage we brought on ourselves. Not to fulling life is it on that level.

Since this unhealthy situation with this woman persists. Sadly he is craving his dad acceptance/approval still in a self destructive way, that undoubtly will cost him self respect/dignity.

He will most likely have to learn the hard way from the school of hard knocks and do what he has to. I was hoping to assist to present him with other options/choices. The smarter way approach than involving/immersing himself headlong in his father counterproductive foolish legacy.

At this point I must refrain from accusing him of having outright PA with out actual evidence.

I will need to gird up and be prepared for the worse and let it all go...

Hi Mayflower,

Sorry to hear about the fall out. I let my H read your son's previous posts, and he said it sounds like your son was probably already in a physical relationship with this person when he posted. He was just hoping for some justification from an outside third party.

Honestly, I would let him move in with his dad. He is of age, and he needs to feel the consequence of his actions. He will also see the result of thinking with his 'unit' instead of his brain by watching dear old Dad in action. The tighter you hold on, the more he will cling to that 'thing' he's with now. If you let him find out for himself what a menace she is, he will come to his senses sooner, IMHO. Right now, the attraction for him is that she is forbidden; no doubt his buddies think it makes him some kind of stud, too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I know how hard it is to fight the maternal instinct to protect, but don't cast pearls before swine, either. You have good reason for all of your objections, but he will have to go this journey alone. Just pray alot, and be there to help him pick up the pieces when the time comes.

Hugs and prayers to you!

Hi Mayflower,

Sorry to hear about the fall out. I let my H read your son's previous posts, and he said it sounds like your son was probably already in a physical relationship with this person when he posted. He was just hoping for some justification from an outside third party.

Honestly, I would let him move in with his dad. He is of age, and he needs to feel the consequence of his actions. He will also see the result of thinking with his 'unit' instead of his brain by watching dear old Dad in action. The tighter you hold on, the more he will cling to that 'thing' he's with now. If you let him find out for himself what a menace she is, he will come to his senses sooner, IMHO. Right now, the attraction for him is that she is forbidden; no doubt his buddies think it makes him some kind of stud, too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I know how hard it is to fight the maternal instinct to protect, but don't cast pearls before swine, either. You have good reason for all of your objections, but he will have to go this journey alone. Just pray alot, and be there to help him pick up the pieces when the time comes.

Hugs and prayers to you!

Redhat--hats off to you again and throwing out yet another life line to my son and I.

Thankyou, for tackfully pointing out that my love for my son, is also interfering his passage to manhood. Undoubtly his loop of wrong crowd friends influences and their foolishness also contributes largely to this nasty stew were in and how he's himself has allowed/gotten on himself on the wrong track.

In particular a man 32 yrs old he had befriended two years ago who too is a con artist,schemer, DJ in the nightclubs, put in a lot of enegeries into my son him playing basketball plays videos. He is a sponger/slick user.

Another huge area of contention between us me/ son and I, as the man is after young girls and devious from my perception of his lifestyle.

My standing up to my son in his constantly trying to bring this man into our home and my setting boundries to keep him out of our home away from my daughter/friends.

My son I were really at logger heads over that one. Where he threw the "race card' at me for rejection this man. Which was bogus manipulation.
I went to counceling over this issue too.

My STBXH was fully aware of this guy but couldn't care less that my son is has this unhealthy relationship. STBXH defended their relationship, undermined me at every turn, would go out for drinks with them, etc...

I would come home and the three of them would be sitting playing board games to be spiteful.

Several months ago STBHX to get his deeper revenge hooks in to hurt me further had this the audacity to move this jerk in with him to entice my son to also move in with them. My STBHX would party together as he was free to bring in his young girls he picked up at the clubs. Guess my STBHX couldn't keep up with him/late nights partying or competition evicted him several months ago.

The guy is player. Should mention my son also has plenty of great terrific friends in his peer group,which I don't have issues with.

I am in agreement with your statement that my son is a good boy on many levels and I yes most certainly don't wish him to be a grown momma boy. Guess I can't protect him anylonger from the "big bad wolf" his dad is,now that his father has chosen to completely step out entirely from his zoot suit sheep attire.

However, I was hoping and praying that my son would learn how to "protect himself" on his own accord, gather information, be informed, become re-connected to his own damaged compass of moral intergity and then fly on his own.

To provide further background to the letting go process which I had started last year with him. I have been trying to gently positively prepare him for his vogage transition into adulthood and sent him overseas to europe for a 1 1/2 last summer to join his sister to recover together from the terrible family ordeal/regain his automony.

Fate would have a week upon his return he unexpectdly won a language study bursery to study at university on the west coast and live in dorm style with peers without parents this time on his own for a month to further assist him with independant automous living.

While my son was living with his dad for several months last year,he and my daughter were quite emotionally messed and both in terrible states. STBXH let our home turn into the party house day and night anything goes situation odd people coming and going all the time. Sadly my son dug himself deeper in a hole in his basement. He could barely attend classes at college or hold down a job.

I couldn't bare to stand back and watch my children ruined under my STBXH heavy irresponible hand which also tried to ruin/harm myself.

I ingored all the high risk factors involved, swung back to help my children recover for their own sakes/sanity to regain their emotional/mental health back, automony.

The struggle has been such a long arduous long journey and up hill battle.

I have offered both my children the options of moving out with their friends but they were to traumitized/paralazed with fears/attachement issues to leave our home-this aspect caused me to consider the damage risk factor to them which has held me back.

Then tried another option of moving altogether into my one of mother rental properties which has an entirely seperate suite perfect for young people to make thier indepandant transition in to adulthood while they complete their education. My kids still couldn't budge.

Both my children have come such a long way. Functioning, healthy and strong. Each in school and working with PT jobs, smiles on their faces again, home life has stablized to a normal stable hum for the most part.

Sadly, am I to face now that my son has become strong, healthy again on many levels only to become proud/arrogant in his heart instead.

This is perhaps were I have struggled within myself to know where does rescue and compassion line stop for our children/adult children and when does our parenting/coaching from the sidelines take on a whole new direction.

So here we are today, the past is no longer reality and we have today with a new set of dynamics and challenges before us.

Therefore, if my job is done and I am in complete agreement here. I feel confident that I have definately taught my children right from wrong, raised with them with abundance of nuture, love, values, morality and made them for the most part a valued/treasured priority in my life. Not perfectly but validated.

And therefore the issue of this foolish involvement with the immoral women without sensibilities has cropped up and feel we have addressed this issue quite adequately on the forum.

Think it's fair/reasonable to say now that I will no longer put in any further engeries into speaking about the issues with the other woman, enough has been said. Will no longer advise him or spend so much enegeries either with him.

You have along with everyone else have kindly, truthfully presented him with a larger scope framework to gauge his moral compass with and provided a view finder for him to also peer into a futilistic futuristic outcome with this dalliance.

EJosph above comment also strikes a deep cord with me which further connects the dots which she said so wisely about my son rationale, in seeking to deliberately run and seek out his father as for third party justification "excuses" to carry on in this foolish manner, since other avenues for disentanglment were presented/offered to evaluate come to senses.

So no more of my being the target and line of fire of his embittered father influences or being around my son when he gets home from his visits. Quiker departure on my part and if he wants to move tomorrow in to his dad's so be it, other woman, so be that too. I am prepared to let go, move over and let life in as it happens.

As in response to your question of how long did I do a plan A with my STBX. Well that didn't quite really happen as I wasn't aware of my STBX involvements until I discovered him acting very inappropiately towards our neigbors wife were he was flirting with her like chimpaneze in front of me. I challenged him on his disrepect towards me left their home and distraughtly wanted to disolve our marriage.

However, my emotions took control as he had an affair 12 years ago which he had secretly had with his cousin best friend at the bar he was playing music at in the evenings. I only discovered the end of their relationship when finding a greeting card from this woman living in another state. I called this woman up, which I happened to go to high school with and she released a great of information. Armed with concreate facts I blew a fuse and was seeking seeking for immediate divorce/release.

My STBX was crying up a storm, remorseful,contrite blah, blah, wanted to be married me committed to our family. Said he was having such problems at work drinking heavily. I was determined to leave and caved into the pressure of forgiving him.
Pastor and friends back then asked me to consider forgiveness path reconcilation.

Hard to for me to go against the grain of my wanting no more to do with him anylonger, but forced myself to take the high road to forgive, forget and forbear. Said that if it ever happened again we were finished-also with the condition if he wanted to play around to just let me know I would gladly give him a divorce without hestitation.

However, the wounds of betrayal were never healed quite throughly in me and buried. My STBX denied he was having an EA with this neighbor, and my emotions were -rerupturing, I hit the roof and wanting to divorce immediately.

However, I was greatly disturbed by my own lashing out conduct/behaviors and sought to get my own vessel under control because I was now out of control and acting out.

I contacted Dr. Harley to address my own emotional outbursts and deal with my past hurts, get a reality check was I now over reacting over sensitive and to deal with other deceptional behaviors he was displaying which my STBHX said was because of his drinking.

I was wanting to work on me, and hire PI at the same time to investigate my STBXH one way or another. I have very low threshold for dishonesty.

On the day of my appointment my father suddenly passed away and so I let the appointment go and decided to focus/work on unresolved issues in our relationship with Dr. Harley.

We only got to the place of radical honesty. I then discovered at his work computer he had wiped his computer email clean. Not satisfied with the apparant cleaniness of no traces. I did some digging around in the cookies on his computer and voila a woman name email popped up on a personal passion greeting site account.

This discovery and secrecy did not go over to well with me by any means.

A side secret affair he was also having on the side which he was denying to Dr. Harley and I saying he and this woman he was from his high school reunion where they had exchanged a few email mails cards and met secretly for one drink but never saw each other afterwards

Continues to deny his involvement with the neighbor wife, learned many evening he was out at work/work colleagues he was over at her house.

Didn't buy his stories because of all this other deception stories going on and was actually prepared to leave him over his drinking was out of control/behaviors issues actually several monthes before, resulting from his disrespect, lies, neglect.

STBXH cries the blues does not want to end the marriage/or give up the family but says he is hiding out because his drinking is out of control wants help.

Due to the pressures of work and his back problems... I feel compassion and offer to support him through his process, suggest he address his depression with our family doctor, tc... Really I was just conned.

Closer I got to investigating the angerier he got so much deception going other bizarre coincidences were happening that really made my head spin gave the impression he was involved with someone. But vehemently denied he was having affairs. What does one do in this case.

His extreme madness came out just after our last session with Dr. Harley which was quite bizarre. We were working on on the PJA. Later when the bizarre frightening events began and Dr. Harley felt things were not right with my STBHX supposed innocence. He was wanting to have me leave the home and doing very strange odd things. I ended up having to seek safety from his insanity and seperated until things got resolved.

Dr. Harley wanted my STBHX to connect with him to clear matters up but he refused. Says alot and tell tale sign indeed something isn't right with the song/dance innocence. Two months later I caught him with another woman in front of her home from a ski trip, with the assistance of PI to track a phone number I had located, found woman ski jacket in my home, etc..

Dr. Harley thought the pressures of juggling two seperate secret lives were catching up to him, as I was so close to the truth.

His first affair was a one night stand just while we were living together only three weeks before we were married. He never told me until two years later. I wanted to divorce him them and my divorced friends worked with me urging me to forgive him, give him a second chance and consider my child needs before my own, as kids needed their fathers.

So thank you for drawing out some visable boundry lines which I am now obviously crossing in tolerating such disrespect.

Time for retrenchment-be prepared for the my son choices. Meaning one I will no longer say anything about the other woman their R/ or anything else.

I was all set to locate this Hallmark special on Sunday but on Saturday evening since I was feeling so emotionally beaten down of my friend came in to let me know of the seminar.

Ended up being the perfect remedy for me at the right time to pull my focus off our situation and mustered up the little energy reserve I had to attend a bible prophecy seminar/middle east .

The speaker message was so inspiring which broke through my saddness/exhaustion, defeated spirit/ my earthly cares vanished I felt completely re-engerzied. Earlier during the break I ended up going for a walk where dizziness, eye strains, chest strain and exhaustion consumed me. I certanily was in rough shape.

I am so relieved that I didn't pack up crawel home but determined to find the last reserves of strength for that day and worked through the discomfort and richly blessed for it.

I learned he was speaking the next evening and invited my shut in mother to attend with me. I couldn't believe it that my son actually decided to accompany us and attend church with us. It's been many many years since he has attended a service/meeting of this calibre which really spoke to his soul cravings.

He also now informs me that he is going to the coast for the weekend in several weeks but doesn't say who with-I reserved my emotions and said nothing.

My son then tells me he will be moving to the coast next year to live permanently. My only comment was good for you, I am happy for you a wonderful place to live.

A huge burden seemed to be lift as we entered praise/worship. I couldn't believe that my son actually joined in to the worship singing at the top of his lungs. Noticed more peers which were women his own age age group doing their creative positive thing .

I sat stunned as my son got up at the almost closing to ask the last question from the doctor at the very end of the service.

It's too bad that the time ran out the two of them connected so deeply, and flowing in the right spirit as he made a very interesting subtle suggestion. My son didn't pick up on it but perhaps will figure it out on his own.

I sat in quietness, aloofness and amazement. The sudden yet about turn yet again and sudden transformation. He obviously was re-strengthened and so deeply challenged/sharpened yet further on a soul level.

More proper male validation, mentorship of my son stepping into a more positive challenging arena and where the true meeting of minds/spirits really happened, intellutual academic challenge created a wonderful deep connection. I was awestruck...

I don't understand the sudden turn around on my son part as Friday night he didn't come home until late Saturday night. I assumed he had gone to his dad to get his move together.

So I wish to thank you and everyone else for their prayers. I regret I had to miss this program is there a name to this show? Perhaps I will be able to get this special on video. I so needed to get out from under the weight from all the oppression in our home and re-shift my focus.

Perhaps my son attendance at church was the best place he could be and GOD re-affirmation that he will be taking over from here irregardless of my STBHX actions/intentions or that there are indeed deep lessons to be learned that are not for intended me.

We had another blessing among the storms.

My son and daughter have arrived home from having dinner/movie at the STBXH, he is now back on dad duty knowing cougar is on the scene/prowl. I on the otherhand will stay out of this one right--head off to sleep and mind everyones great advice.

My I think of my post a ways back on the impact of affairs have on kids. Interesting you should respond then. Wham it's all splattered all over my face.

Thankyou so much for being such a " great coast guard" responding to all our SOS at MB still caught in between the coral reefs of shark infested murky waters of heartbreak, depair, deceits,etc. The swim back to shore and sanity is good thing!

Dearest EJosef,

First of all, I thank you so much from the bottom of my heart and extremely greatful to you and Ladysing were so alert to be the first to pick up immediately the smoke signals at lighting speed to attend to my son posting and call his hand.

I found your comments to my son right on target and so validating. You seem to know me already quite well and communicate my thoughts so wonderfully.

The legacy of lechery,trechery and betrayal of what some parents leave behind for their children by their foolishness is to set them up to inherit the wind.

I am so terribly sad that my son is so plugged into his dad behavior and mine at the same time.As you can tell the affects of my STBHX and the divorce has adversely affected my son.

The duality and struggle for him must terribly difficult for my son. I feel compassion for him but at the same time my son no longer can try straddling the fence maintain two entirely different belief systems.

I feel it is fair that the struggle is really not between my STBHX and I, but that we are representatives on many levels that we come from entirely different sides, value systems.

I so appreciate your candidness in reaffirming my position about not trying to sheild him from older human beings but SCARY ones. This hit home so deeply than you will ever imagine.

In my posting above to Redhat I have shared about my son getting connected to an older guy 32 who definately is also a predator which my son thought was so kool. My STBXH used this connection to have this man come in live with him to entice my son into his lair.

I am feel so angry that my STBXH,has no genguine love for our son and wants to destroy our kids along side with him. His selfishness and wickedness is outrageously cruel.

Sad reality here that this twisted connection is really about my son wanting a deeper connection to gain quality relationship with his dad. This other older 40 ish woman predator also ties into his trying to impress his dad to win his favor, to accept him and of course to look kool with his peers.

Wanting his father acceptance.I am broken hearted
that my son will sacrifice, and risk himself and do almost anything headlong destructive to gain that love/acceptance/attention from his dad.

The truth is that his dad should be doing all he can to win his children hearts back as their love/loyalty has been genguine but sadly his has been not been nor reciprocated. The terrible truth that my kids have not been able to face.

Should also mention that my son, several of his peers, my daughter, her friends and myself had already had a round table lenghty open conversation about the older woman intentions and supposed motivation about a month ago.

All the kids responses were the same, could see clearly through her deception and manipulation. I am saddened positive peer pressure also went unheeded.

This entire past year I have been cleaning up picking up the pieces to get us back on the high road. Trying to counter all my STBXH wrong doings has been extremely challening.

I appreciate also you and your H view point of my son seeking out third party justification for his position, which wasn't validated here on the board. His seeking his dad alliance. Very possible that their relationship may very well be oon a (PA) level... and why I am receiving this mega backlash.

I belive also that I have done enough and thanks to everyone here affirmation that I must let him walk through the fire he is he chooses, and move in with his dad or whatever and let them all devour themselves. A terrible lesson for anyone to have to go through especially when an escape, and better route exists.

Kids in tow with thier WS/WParents is something I wasn't to prepared for to all blow up in my face.

I thank you again for being here for my son and I to support us through this awful mess.

I heard a funny saying today---for men who get them selves bogged down in the swamps emotional trouble.

To get themselves a good winch instead of wench.

I had a good laugh over that pearly advice and said AMEN to that one. I feel that here at MB forum there are enough great people such as yourself, others to create an excellent winch to pull out from uneccessary pain, heartache and live happy quality lives.

Thankyou for the prayers,concern and support.

I hope many couples working on rebuilding their marriages will learn from our heartbreak situation how conduct/action, consequences can deeply destroy thier kids. Affairs have long reaching damaging consequences wounds the souls of their kids.

Millions of huggs!

Dearest EJosef,

First of all, I thank you so much from the bottom of my heart and extremely greatful to you and Ladysing were so alert to be the first to pick up immediately the smoke signals at lighting speed to attend to my son posting and call his hand.

I found your comments to my son right on target and so validating. You seem to know me already quite well and communicate my thoughts so wonderfully.

The legacy of lechery,trechery and betrayal of what some parents leave behind for their children by their foolishness is to set them up to inherit the wind.

I am so terribly sad that my son is so plugged into his dad behavior and mine at the same time.As you can tell the affects of my STBHX and the divorce has adversely affected my son.

The duality and struggle for him must terribly difficult for my son. I feel compassion for him but at the same time my son no longer can try straddling the fence maintain two entirely different belief systems.

I feel it is fair that the struggle is really not between my STBHX and I, but that we are representatives on many levels that we come from entirely different sides, value systems.

I so appreciate your candidness in reaffirming my position about not trying to sheild him from older human beings but SCARY ones. This hit home so deeply than you will ever imagine.

In my posting above to Redhat I have shared about my son getting connected to an older guy 32 who definately is also a predator which my son thought was so kool. My STBXH used this connection to have this man come in live with him to entice my son into his lair.

I am feel so angry that my STBXH,has no genguine love for our son and wants to destroy our kids along side with him. His selfishness and wickedness is outrageously cruel.

Sad reality here that this twisted connection is really about my son wanting a deeper connection to gain quality relationship with his dad. This other older 40 ish woman predator also ties into his trying to impress his dad to win his favor, to accept him and of course to look kool with his peers.

Wanting his father acceptance.I am broken hearted
that my son will sacrifice, and risk himself and do almost anything headlong destructive to gain that love/acceptance/attention from his dad.

The truth is that his dad should be doing all he can to win his children hearts back as their love/loyalty has been genguine but sadly his has been not been nor reciprocated. The terrible truth that my kids have not been able to face.

Should also mention that my son, several of his peers, my daughter, her friends and myself had already had a round table lenghty open conversation about the older woman intentions and supposed motivation about a month ago.

All the kids responses were the same, could see clearly through her deception and manipulation. I am saddened positive peer pressure also went unheeded.

This entire past year I have been cleaning up picking up the pieces to get us back on the high road. Trying to counter all my STBXH wrong doings has been extremely challening.

I appreciate also you and your H view point of my son seeking out third party justification for his position, which wasn't validated here on the board. His seeking his dad alliance. Very possible that their relationship may very well be oon a (PA) level... and why I am receiving this mega backlash.

I belive also that I have done enough and thanks to everyone here affirmation that I must let him walk through the fire he is he chooses, and move in with his dad or whatever and let them all devour themselves. A terrible lesson for anyone to have to go through especially when an escape, and better route exists.

Kids in tow with thier WS/WParents is something I wasn't to prepared for to all blow up in my face.

I thank you again for being here for my son and I to support us through this awful mess.

I heard a funny saying today---for men who get them selves bogged down in the swamps emotional trouble.

To get themselves a good winch instead of wench.

I had a good laugh over that pearly advice and said AMEN to that one. I feel that here at MB forum there are enough great people such as yourself, others to create an excellent winch to pull out from uneccessary pain, heartache and live happy quality lives.

Thankyou for the prayers,concern and support.

I hope many couples working on rebuilding their marriages will learn from our heartbreak situation how conduct/action, consequences can deeply destroy thier kids. Affairs have long reaching damaging consequences wounds the souls of their kids.

Millions of huggs!

mayflower,

When you deal with an alcoholic you deal with the chemical not him, when you deal with a WS you deal with the selfishness. There are mutiple problems facing you but you get a great help from Harley and your IC. I am glad that you are stronger by day and occational break down is normal, it is part of healing. We cope with "small" break down and this way we could be prepared to survive "the big one". Your STBX has many problems and usually there are more underneath than just meet the eyes. We are all want to save our M but not all M could be saved and not all M should be saved, specially when the price to pay beyond one's life. Come back often and post to others too.

-rh-

Redhat-
Alcholic/adulteries twining issues are the tip of the ice berg. Appears both conditions fall into core spiritual issues caterorgies.

Major root pride,selfishness and foolishness. Manifesting in lack of character, intergrity&conduct.

Appears my STBHX behaviors appears to fall in DSM 4 fashionable format, research suggests he fits under Narcistic Personality Disorder, Psychopath, under abnormal behaviors classification, Bi-polarism II. Family orgin upbringing.

Society offers also AA/Copendancy movement, or better yet SmartRecovery.org for positive approachs in cognitive behavioral to addictions, sex addicts support groups, anti violence address family of orgin issues, etc. (BEEN THERE.)

And then for some there is God that gets right back to square root and provides amazing grace.

STBXH after all his years of counceling, support, love and care doesn't believe he has a problem or cares. STBX chose to self attack, crash the marriage, family.

Unfortunately, our marriage is one of those no longer worth saving and not losing one life for. Worth my adverting a greater possible tradegy to help my children.

He is aware of my achilles heel which is of course my children. STBHX choices to be foolish is his problem not mine. He has enough foolish companions to play with and they all too will inherit the wind in the end.

He has deeply betrayed,hurt,harmed our children so deeply, the unpardonable for me to interfer with their normal prospects of life with his garbage. Why I wish to never have contact with him again.

I have walked the gamut with my STBHX to be supportive. Dr. Harley in agreement to let the marriage go and I know in my heart, for my children sake I did all I could to save the marriage, rebuild the marriage, family.

I walk away exhausted, tired and looking forward to receiving my papers of liberation that it will do no good for STBHX to keep stalling matters with his foolish games.

IC is especially nice change to work on myself as
Counseling with Dr. Harley has been wonderful/valuable experince.

Wish I was in a position to afford more personal counceling with him. Our previous sessions, hiring PI, sending our kids overseas, Lawyers fees has dramtically diminished my operating capital.

Wish I could of opened up sooner on the forum this past year as I bottled up to much on my own. Now find I just vent to much, but am healing at such a rapid rate thanks to everyone support. Healing at an accerlated.

Confident to know my posts will get shorter, shorter!

Take care!

My son has read my vent post and feels unjustly hurt, especially as he says by my emotionalism burst, misreprenting the situation and particular comment about his seeking out his alliance with his dad over the woman and needing to vent to him about my dissapproval.

Dear son, should you see this post or read any other post here. Mmany people have walked a similar rocky road, with deep impact wounds from their parents adultery/divorce wounds. You are not alone by any means, so many here from the family of humanity than you could ever imagine that have walked the rocky road you are walking and come out the other end wiser, stronger . No one us are invisable.

I have the very deep compassion and sympathy for you and am pained to see you suffer,hurt so silently and alone.

I love you and want to see the best for you in your life and do not desire that you carry the baggage of which your father and myself subjected you and your sister too.

You and sister are both such amazing wonderful human beings, talented, gifted, intelligent, loving.

As you are aware I have spent a lifetime working my self through layers/layers of family dsyfunction/deceits, betrayals, primarily so that you and your sister would be free.

My heart desire is to want to see you and your sister free from the baggage and be free to enjoy/pursue a quality of life. Way I see it. Family dysfuction saps the engergies/passions of life, errodes quality of life.

So to ask me go into denial, repress truths, doesn't work for me..

Truth is you do have options and other have had other people to gain an wider perspective and options to go to counceling another safe private environment to vent, gain perspectives, heal.

I have already apolized to you prior about my sarcastic remark about the other woman to you have already and have taken ownership. As you know my remark was not chairtable to you or respectful.

Adults do take ownership for their parts-behaviors. I am saddened you chose not to respond further here on the board and shut down communications altogether. I respect your choice in this matter..

However, by your lack of response/silence on your part. People on the board were responding out of natural concern for your well being..

Many of us here now the hard way, the lures of forbidden fruit produces jams. And the way of fool will only inherit the wind.

If you chooses to pursue this relationship this is up to you and I wish no further involvement and no further mentions. It is your life.

If you chose to go with your father over these matter thats fine to, please know I don't wish to be involved on that level either. It is your life . .

To treat me disrespectfully or disregard my wounds is not kind or acceptable, fair on your part to dump your frustrations on to me is not an acceptable alternative. This is my life, and will not allow it.

I choose nolonger to be a target, I did not create the mess,drive our family off the road. Nor I want to belong a unhealthy dysfunctinal family system. I wish to be apart of a legacy that produces blessings, not a cursed legacy that brings nothing pain and impoverishment.

I do want to be part of healthy functional family and see you&sister venture into adulthood, equipped without the family baggage,a good moral compass, good senses intact that will only benefit yourselves. Life is full of wonders, predators mostly on two leggs. It's up to you to discern. It's your life.
,
To be your true selves and finest best. That is the natural call of the wild.

Should you choose to carry our family baggage and drag it with you this is also your choice.

I am doing by best to clean things up as you know I have invited your particpation, suggestion on the best way we can heal as family. As you and your sister are aware I don't support the disrespect of treating men badly or women.

I have seen firsthand the damage pride/arrogance/selfishness causes from my parents, etc who don't care and this too does not work for me.

You have watched me fight a lot of battles and trust you now how to fight for causes were right in dignity and, truth. Stand firm my son, wear rightouness around your neck, let us not attack one another, we may never know when we may need one another. Wise adults choose their companions wisely.

If you feel it is time now to expand your wings into adulthood, and fly on your own natural timetable of manhood. I am happy for you, and behind you 100 percent of the way and bless you. Should you choose to move across the world this to is perfectly normal.

I would hope our parting would be done on mature adult terms of mutual respect, dignity, and love.

You decide now your own path and , legacy which you wish to create. Wise adults also think of future legacies to come too.

As ever your mother who loves you!
oooxxx

mayflower Jr.

Your mom's posts are how she felt about the situation at that moment. It might be venting or it could be the real feeling. It was about your mom's preception about the situation that happened. If it was true, the truth hurt. If you have different intentions then you just have to explain yourself. Remember explanation not justification about the situation and you could fix it by your actions.

You have the choice to do the right thing and stop this hurt and sin by your actions ... and hope the grace of God will shine upon you and lead you to avoid the same mistake that your parent did. (as my parent and my grandparent did to me).

If your dad unable to ammend your mom; you could take the burden and relieve her from her hurt and anger. You have been reading MB's posts and you know what to do.

-rh-

Dear Mayflower,

Glad to hear things are looking up a bit. You are most welcome for the humble advice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> I am a bit of a cynic, but I always pray when I give advice that I will be wrong in my assesment. This is one case in which I really hoped I was. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I have to remind myself that my job as a mom is to put the good stuff in front of them, but whether or not they choose it is up to them. It isn't my job to take abuse or support them in a wrong lifestyle. That's not a lack of love, because I will always love them. I can love the sinner and hate the sin.

I will continue to pray that all this is resolved with as little pain and suffering as possible. If your son is as bright as he sounds, maybe he will catch on to all the experience being offered here. In the meantime, Mayflower Dear, stay beautiful, and fight the good fight.

God's Blessings!