Yesterday, I instructed my Solicitor to start DV proceedings on my behalf on the grounds of H's adultery. I knew it was coming, so how I feel about it I'm not quite sure. I did offer H the opportunity to file, but knew he wouldn't, purely for financial reasons, it will cost him.

After my last communications with H (which were incredibly painful and bitter), the force of our situation hit me even harder. The reality is that H does not care what he does and continues his A with Shiney Head, nor does he care to even talk to me about where things went wrong in our M and how we could put them right. This has pretty much been a constant state since last September time. I know that H is stubborn, still incredibly hurt, and continues because of that to be "Mr Very Angry hey it's all your fault and I'm not having an A because we are seperated irrespective of the fact that it started when I was living at home because I can do what I want because you wrecked our M".

This situation is not one I want to be in, but I fear that if I do not make a financial settlement to H, I will a) loose my home as house prices inevitably will increase or b) become liable for any debt that H may run up (which is highly possible). H is adamant that he wants money and he wants it now. As you may remember when I posted previously, in the UK financial settlements should only be made in conjunction with DV because again, H could make further financial claims on me even if I settle with him now. It really isn't advisable for me to wait 2 years to DV H for many practical and financial reasons, and this is what my Solicitor advised "You can always re-marry, but protect yourself and your assets now".

The last communications I had from H were rude and abrupt. I do not see the man I married there anymore, he has become like a stranger to me. When I went to meet him some 3 weeks ago, I went with openness and honesty. H came with agression, anger and pain. It seems to me that he is even worse than the months immediately after d-day. Because I cannot talk to him rationally, he only believes his irrational thoughts, and of course, I'm sure OW is egging him on "Oh yes, poor you, you were the injured party, don't let her get away with it" sort of thing. That night when we met I said to him, "You must know, you must realise that things weren't right in our M?" and he replied "Yes, yes of course I do, but if I admit that, it makes everything my fault". He cannot see a half way point, and this is again something that I don't see changing - it will always be all my fault or all his fault.

I know some of you (JL perhaps particularly), will think that I have started this too soon, but I have lost everything anyway, I'd really like to try and save my home if I can. I also can't live in this limbo. There has been and continues to be no sign at all that H would ever want to talk to me and work things out, irrespective of the fact that we clearly still have deep feelings and much love between us. He can't see the damage his R with OW is doing to him, and that he won't find the peace and let go of his anger until he actually addresses the problems in our M in an honest and realistic way - not the whole my fault your fault thing.

So, I'm sad today, incredibly sad. I never expected to be at this point, but I am, and I have to live with it and my actions (partly) that brought us to this point. I know that I tried to do the best I could to make amends to H and to show him what an awful mistake I made, but it wasn't enough. As I say so often, it is easier for H to have his own A rather than address the problems we had. Ultimately, it will be his loss not mine.

Lisa <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Dear Lisa,

I am so sad for you ,we at MB know how hard you have tried and how much your own experience has helped others. I can't help but feel that your H will regret this as much as you, he is so clearly unable to face up to his own role in this. I suppose for him, it is a second M that has failed and he is taking the passive role in allowing you to divorce him rather than take the active role of trying to work with you in sorting things out.

Lisa, although I do worry that you are rushing into this, only you know what your financial situation is and of course you must be bullet proof for your own peace of mind. Financial insecurity must be so frightening.

I do wonder though, forgive me if I offend you, but divorcing H on grounds of his adultery seems a deliberately cruel and ironic blow. Obviously it is a valid reason but under the circumstances, you have enough grounds to use Irreconcileable Differences don't you? I don't suppose it matters if the result is the same, but I did think that were I your H it would inflame his bitterness towards you even more. Just a thought.

You will be ok Lisa, keep your eyes on the horizon.

Deluded

Hi Lisa,
Sorry to see you down. As you write, you both did mistakes, the obvious one which is easy to point at was your's, but as I read in the relate book, affairs are a symptom, not the cause. to discuss and amend the causes you need first and foremost a basic will to try, and time to sit together and discuss, maybe with a councillor. your husband refuses to do both (but to be fair, he showed a willingness to try.... when you didn't/couldn't yet), which makes a divorce pretty inevitable. instead, he rushes head over heels into a 'revenge' affair - possibly to validate himself as a human, as a man. so far my dilettante try of analysing your situation. so.... what's the bottom line? As said, as long as he refuses point blank to discuss/amend/understand your relationship, then a divorce is probably the right thing to do, especially as you dont have children to worry about and to have responsibility for. you also need to do this for your material security. what about a separation agreement though, splitting the household and all? you would get the same benefits as with a divorce (material security) but with giving him a chance for a "final final answer" (think Chris Tarrant).
Take good care of yourself, head down south for easter bank hols, or whatever you fancy.
Cheers
N

<small>[ April 11, 2003, 04:04 AM: Message edited by: Nick123 ]</small>

Hi Deluded and Nick

Thanks for your speedy responses.

Nick, I was always willing to go to MC with H, but I don't know if you remember, after our first session in August, he refused to go back. I was always willing to do that, even though I didn't snap out of the fog until September. He never really tried, or did anything. He was angry all the time and frankly in some ways it was a miracle that I came round at all!!! I'm not trying to under-estimate how he feels, but he never understood the MB principles or took to them in the same way you did. The whole period from August (his return) through end September were just unbearably bitter, tense, and at times just frightening his behaviour towards me.

Legal separation still holds no water in terms of financial issues. I have checked this out. So even if we have a legal contract, if it is not logged with the Court together with a DV, we are still financially liable for each other. What I would hope to do though is write a letter to H to tell him that this is not what I want, but I respect his wishes to move forward. It is just hard, because we are really not communicating at all.

Deluded, no offence taken, but irreconciable differences is the end reason for DV, through a series of causes, i.e. adultery, unreasonable behaviour or 2 years living apart. If I went with unreasonable behaviour, that is really horrible. You can't just make a list of things, you have to detail and be very specific, so I would have to include things like his violence towards me (and detail occassions etc.), him moving to Germany, him beginning a R with someone else whilst still living at home, his poor financial management etc. Honestly, I thought this was horrible, far far worse than adultery. It's really like picking over the bones of your life.

I really see no alternative. There is NO sign from H at all that he even wants to speak to me. He doesn't want me in his life and seems to hate me, although I know he doesn't. The only thing I hold on to is what my Solicitor said "Protect yourself and your assets now, you can always remarry again".

As you know, I am also self employed and work comes and goes. I can manage currently paying the household expenses, but they will go up considerably for me to buy H out.

OK, so if I don't DV what do I do?

Lisa

<small>[ April 11, 2003, 04:32 AM: Message edited by: Lisa in London ]</small>

Actually Deluded, changed me mind, a bit of offence taken here in London. I think everyone tends to forget that my H, yes my H, is sh**ing a woman 15 years his junior, who he began the R with whilst I was doing everything possible to try and save my M and he was living at home with me, verbally abusing me and blaming me for everything that had happened in our M. I AM NOW THE BS.

Can we not forget that he choose (yes it was an active choice, not one forced upon him) to work abroad for 2 years. During that time, he was so not bothered with me at times it was unbelieveable, i.e. conversations like me phoning to talk, him saying "I'm not going to talk to you now, I was going for a sleep".

Can we not forget that on numerous occassions he was violent towards me - I have never admitted that on this board, but today I want to. I have been hit, pushed, shoved etc. and on the day he returned from Germany I had a telephone flung in my face. I had to de-camp and go to my friend's house as I feared for my safety.

Can we not forget, the constant burden I have had for the last 12 years of supporting him financially (as well as emotionally), through him being a student and then constant debt. Now, he wants to take even more of my money (money left to me by my Grandma who he never met, my redundancy money) even though he contributed little financially throughout the 12 years, all of a sudden it is his right. Why does he want this so badly? Because I just know, he is going to set up home with Shiney Head in June. And guess how that feels to me? You should understand, you should know.

I miss my H, not the stranger that now lives in his body and treats me with contempt, anger and disgust. I do not want this stranger in my life, and should I feel bad about that? Should I feel bad, that actually, I want to save my home because I have nothing else left to save or worth saving.

I am sorry if this sounds angry, but I am angry. I am also overwhelmed with sadness and hurt that I can't even get through to my H or talk to him without a barrage of abuse coming back my way and being told by his OW that I must have low self esteem because I call her, quote "Your husband's girlfriend".

I will never ever justify what I did (yet again, I state that categorically), but do I deserve this now? Is it cruel of me to file on the grounds of his adultery? No, because that is what it is, least we forget, and the pain that goes with that is overwhelming for me.

Lisa

Hi lisa,

I can feel your anger and do understand what a lot you have had to put up with. My situation has similarities but my H was never violent, or showed particular anger, he just gave up on our M and refused to do anything to help reconcile. He has lived with his OW since Jan 2002 and we have been separated just over 2 years. I finally filed a month ago. I feel incredible sadness that he won't work art it put peace that I know I did. I hope that you soon find peace in this awful situation.

Jante

Jante - thank you. You were one of the first people here to post to me, and I thank you for understanding. My anger is about H's refusal to do anything, but also underlying that is my deep regret and sadness that this is where we have come to. It also physically hurts that he is with someone else.

I have just had an e-mail from H saying he can't afford a Solicitor to file for DV, so I should go ahead. You see how well I know him, this is the first thing I said in my first post. He won't do it purely because of financial reasons.

I sent a mail back telling him that I am overwhelmed by sadness at taking this action, and how awful it is that we can barely communicate. I also tell him that I must seem like a stranger to him at the moment, but that I still care.

My guess to his response "You should have thought about that when you were having sex in hotel rooms with OM" or something along those lines. There won't be any kindness or care in his response to my message.......

Lisa

Lisa-

Hey, sorry to hear things have continued downhill so fast with regards to a D. You know, of course, that this whole thing of him being physically abusive is just icing on the cake right? Even though you had a A? As Nick mentioned (and I SO realized and have accepted with my former M) it's conditions that bring about A's. His being less than forthcoming about his 1st M, working abroad, being abusive, refusing to address "his" issues, revenge A's etc., you've got ample reason to proceed with this D.

One thing I'd caution you with Lisa, and you can blast away if you want, is that you must figure out some way to forgive him. Maybe you think that will come in the future but it sounds like you're a long way from there now. To me, it's the MOST IMPORTANT THING you can do for yourself and your future happiness. Have you ever known anyone that's been D'd, sometimes for years, but still holds on to that hostility like a security blanket? I have and it's not pretty, don't let it happen to you! Good luck.....

<small>[ April 11, 2003, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: litchfield ]</small>

Fair enough Lisa, and it was not my intention to offend you. There are many on this board who would flame you as a FWS but I have never done so and in fact regard you as a great support.

You are understandably angry and that is entirely justified.I merely put things as I saw them. If H and I separated, and I started dating someone, and he then filed for divorce on grounds of my adultery, I would be incredibly angry and bitter and it would be yet another grievance. I suspected from your previous posts that violence was involved and that therefore there are other causes you could cite. I completely understand your justification for doing so, and as I said, it is a valid reason, for he is a WS!

I am always conscious that when we post on these boards, we often paint only one perspective of our situations. Your relationship with H has appeared in a different light now.

My concern about it being early days to divorce is just that, concern. As I said, only you know what is best for your own personal situation. I would never blame anyone for taking action to protect themselves and I think that is what D is for you, Lisa, to protect yourself from the ugly side of your H's character.

Extending an olive branch to you, dear Lisa, from Devon

Deluded

(((((( Lisa )))))))

I think you're right... your filing for a D IS the best choice for your safety and (financial) security.

On account that you've thrown abuse into the mix of your R with your H, it's no wonder that reconciliation wasn't happening. Although you are the one who had the initial A, (and I know you know it was the wrong way to deal with the situation), there never was any hope for a happy M, unless your H was willing to face his fears, and own up to HIS part of the R. That's a given. But the abuse factor... that REALLY changes things. Lisa, there is NOTHING you could have done to change things. This is all about your H; his insecurities, HIS low self esteem.

Reading your initial post on this thread really stirred up some triggers for me. When you tried to get your H to understand that the problems in the M were a 50/50 split, and he didn't want to address that, b/c he feels it's 100% his fault. No matter what you do or say, his low self esteem will take over. He can't HEAR the positives, because he's drowning in his own negatives. Just as my H was (I use past tense, b/c I haven't spoken to him since Dec.31st, so I have no idea where his frame of mind is at present - although I presume he's still pretty messed up, else he wouldn't be accusing ME of planting the child porn. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ).

Take care Lisa. You are doing the right thing right now. And we all know you've tried to work on the M. We also know that it takes TWO to make that happen. I'm sorry our H's are fools in that regard. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Karen

Lisa,

Hi, I was wondering what's up with you. Thanks for you post on my thread.

I am sorry for your sadness and anger. There are sooo many stages to this thing, no? Just when you think you have it all figured out and are ok with it...you get blindsided by more emotions.

I agree with those who say that somehow, you will have to forgive him for all this. I have read alot about forgiveness, and am learning that it is far "easier" than I thought. It's a decision to not let someone else's actions, history, decisions hurt you anymore. it happens when you fully realize and accept that his actions are not a reflection on you, and that you understand why you did what you did. You know your part in the mess, you own it, you see what his part is. You RELEASE it....very touchy feely...but simple nonetheless.

See my posts in you have a chance, I would love an opinion about my "ultimatum" to my H.

I feel like I have forgiven him. I know it bcs it does not hurt me, and I am ready to look forward, not back.

Thank you all for your support and replies.

Firstly Deluded, olive branch accepted <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It wasn't you I'm angry with, it's this futile and hopeless situation. I really can do nothing to change where we have come to, and I tried and tried. I also believe that H's R with OW started way before he stayed out that first night when he was still living at home (you may not remember that story). This was something that started when he was still living at home, and I was trying to put things right. In retrospect, it explains why my efforts were futile - he was already in the mindset of a WS. He thought and still thinks that it was perfectly OK to sleep with someone else, irrespective of whether or not we were living together (and to start with, we were), because it was all my fault. That won't ever change and that makes me sad, because together, we could have tried. Yes, you are right too that he will be very bitter and angry about the DV on the grounds of adultery, but as I say, unreasonable behaviour seemed even worse to me. The response to my e-mail telling him how sad I was and how we could still talk did not even provoke any reaction. He ignored it, even though yet again my hand was extended. How sad is that?

Thanks Eleanor. You too are right. When I wasn't in touch with H at all, I could cope, I felt a sense of peace and calm, I thought I would be OK. Every correspondence now feels like a stab in the heart because it seems so unreal and not like my H at all. As I say, it seems to be his body, but someone else inside. I will drop by your thread later.

Karen - thanks for the hug. Much needed. You know what, I don't even think it was 50/50% responsibility? I still take a larger share for what I did and it was wrong, but yes there were things wrong too. I think you are right about his self esteem. When we last had our sensible conversation (back in January), he said that he wasn't a violent person, he can't even admit that he has a nasty temper which I have seen spill over towards others, not just me - he always justifies it. I also want to make it clear, that it was very intermittent, but still there - as someone said to me, what does it mean to be violent, a broken arm, a bruise, what? As you and I both know, we can't control what they do or who they are, but only ourselves.

Litchfield, I hear you loud and clear and know you are right. Sometimes, I'm not sure who I am least forgiving of, me or him. I still hate myself but what makes me most angry with him is that he never really tried. All the other things I forgive him for, but I feel that I failed because he didn't want to try and that also maybe he just didn't love me enough.

I still don't want this divorce, but feel trapped into it. As I say securing my finances so that I can at least keep my home is important. I know he won't come back and doesn't want to, and that still hurts, because yes, I would still try, even though our success would have alot stacked against us. I also want to say that I am ashamed to admit, that I have been violent back towards H (predominantly retaliation), and that is something I would also struggle living with.

So Deluded, you are right, sometimes, we don't tell the whole story, because we are ashamed of the people we are (yes, I am still ashamed of my A, the way that I too fought back against H), and also we try and protect the ones we love - and I still love my H.

Lisa

Dear Lisa,

I completely agree that you need to protect yourself and if D is what it takes, you need to do it.

Yes, you had the A, and not to exonerate you, there were factors in your M, that made you susceptible to having the A. Unfortunately the same flaws in your H's behavior that made you vulnerable to OM, are the flaws that prevent your H from healing/rebuilding the M.

It takes two, and you have been making an effort. But you can't do it alone. In view of your H's past history with finances and relationships, you are right to protect yourself from him and to take vigorous action to do so.

Good luck.

"Yes, you had the A, and not to exonerate you, there were factors in your M, that made you susceptible to having the A. Unfortunately the same flaws in your H's behavior that made you vulnerable to OM, are the flaws that prevent your H from healing/rebuilding the M. "

Espoir, I think this is so key, and it seems sometimes other people just hit the nail on the head when I can't quite understand it. Thank you for this and your support.

I still worry that I am doing the right thing, but it is about protecting myself and my assets. There has been no sign at all from H at in the last 6 months (except briefly at Christmas then he pulled away) that he wants to do anything anymore with me. I do hope that one day he will heal, and know that whilst I was foolish and cruel, I did my very best to try and put things right.

Thank you for your support Espoir, don't see so much of you nowadays, but hope you and your H are doing well.

Lisa

Hi Lisa,

sorry to hear you have reached this stage but understand completely why you have to do this. Do remember to plan time to work out your frustrations as others have pointed out. Because whilst you can only fix you and not your H it is all too easy to forget to fix yourself when just surviving is taking all you have.

good luck

bowd

Lisa,
First of all, thanks for all the support you've given me and for replying on my thread.

I could so relate to what you said in the beginning of your thread here: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I do not see the man I married there anymore, he has become like a stranger to me. When I went to meet him some 3 weeks ago, I went with openness and honesty. H came with agression, anger and pain. It seems to me that he is even worse than the months immediately after d-day. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">These words are so true for me, too. It is all much worse now than right after D-Day.

I don't have much to add to what all of these other people have said. They've said it all so well. I especially agree with Espoir's words.

I think you're right , too, when you say this started with his OW before you even thought it did. That would explain a lot of his behavior.

The stories here on MB are so sad, you're right! My greatest hope is to somehow only learn from this, and put it all behind me.

I don't blame you at all for filing right now. You need to protect your finances.

I haven't added any insights here, but I wanted you to know that I'm thinking of you on this lovely Sunday.

Take Care,
H_P

Hi Bowd

Good to see you - what's been happening with you? Are you and your W working things out? What about the baby? Please do let us know if you feel you can.

I do realise that I still have a long way to go before I heal. Sometimes I don't know if I ever will. I do forgive H for the way he has behaved, but I still find it hard to forgive that he didn't even want to try with me. As I said before, that to me is the hardest thing to get over, and that he has so quickly gone into another R. I believe that it must have been going on for longer, but also it hurts because I think did he ever really love me.

I am trying to remain positive and upbeat. Sometimes I still feel utter despair at this awful situation and how we cannot even communicate. I know it will probably get a lot worse before it even gets better. Hey ho.....

Thanks for looking in Bowd. Please let us know how things are with you.

Hi H_P - I think I must have been posting as you were - spooky!!! Thank you for your support. It means a lot to me, and it is weird how he seems so much worse. I believe that when he was at home, he had to face up to the difficulties and his own issues. Now he is away, partly, he has her egging him on, but also it is easier to be angry and blame me because I am not there as a constant reminder for his own "failings".

It is all very very sad. I do take heart that there are many people here who have recovered their M's and even though that doesn't seem possible for you and I, we have both learnt so very much about ourselves and will come out the other side better people. Of that, I am sure.

Lisa

<small>[ April 13, 2003, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: Lisa in London ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I still find it hard to forgive that he didn't even want to try with me </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know I think that sums up what I will feel if my W doesn't decide to try again - and that order of words is deliberate as it is very different to "decides not to try again"...

You know that - to me - is what is so powerful about this forum. Just reading other's words helps crystalise one's own thoughts.

Thank you Lisa <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Lisa everything you say about your H sounds just like my H and how he is towards me. And it looks like I have to be the one to file 1st. This way he will probably throw that in my face telling everyone I must have wanted the divorce all the while because I filed.

Hi Bowd, Goldie

Goldie, yes I'm sure it will upset H, but he is happily running around with another woman and wanting a financial settlement, but not prepared to take the action. It is quite specific in the UK about how you need to protect assets etc. in relation to this, and it has to tie in to DV. I also just know he isn't coming back....

Bowd, glad to be of service! Don't normally think I am, but I realise what you mean after catching up with your thread.

Last night I dreamt about H. I seem to dream about him quite often. There are two types. The first is when we are together and happy, and the second is like last night. Last night's dream we are rowing and arguing, and he tells me he is moving in with Shiney Head. I wake up crying......

I know it will get better, but I wonder when.

Lisa