The other night I decided to tell H:

I love you
I want our marriage to work
You clearly have "issues" and are undecided about what you want in life, and our marriage etc.
I cannot live in a home with you in constant withdrawal, moody, cold, and rude towards me, and the kids.

I am a happy person, and I feel this "bubbling up" feeling of happiness that just can't get out because of of your moods.

My preference is that you stay, and continue to work on those issues, while being part of the family...but if you cannot be a positive force in thsi house, you will have to leave.

If you leave, I will still love you, and you may still be part of our life. It's not punishment, just me placing limits on what I can tolerate.

I told him this over a really nice dinner, eaten by candlelight in the dining room!

This is my version of plan a at this point bcs I just have to admit that waht I am doing IS NOT WORKING!

He's in a deep fog/withdrawal, not doing a thing to improve our marriage, and seems to be getting quieter and more morose as time goes by.

I am now admitting that I cannot fix his problem, and no amount of "showing" him the cool me that I am is bringing him out of it. He admits that I am "doing it all right"...cannot blame me for his present mood. I feel that OW is prominent in his mind still...along with resentment towards me bcs I represent: obligation, burdens....

He has to figure things out himself. I am/was at the point where I could not take it anymore. I never want to have another depressing talk with him, or fight. Everything has been said a million times. I want action: stay or go. Be nice or leave, commit or go.

I feel relief knowing that I DO NOT have to tolerate one more minute of his DARK grey cloud presence.

I am scared about what he will do. He's been on a business trip since the speech, and hardly called. He has said he will "behave" over this coming weekend (family stuff going on). I think he is postponing any decision again. I hope I don't end up having to tell him to leave.

What I did was brave, I know, but boy am I scared. What have I done???? Was this a stupid move? it's NOT a plan B...bcs this plan is about still showing hime the person I am, but limiting my exposure to his crap.

If he goes, what would trigger plan B for me? Besides the obvious OW thing.

He is not seeing ow, I believe that. It's really deep withdrawal/questioning, existential, midlife crisis, depression stuff.

any comments? observations? 2x4's?

Hi Eleanor, you are being incredibly brave and strong. You are doing what you feel is right for you and your children. Hopefully, this will wake him up. Just be sure to reassure him that you are worried about him and are there ready to help him as soon as he's ready to help himself. Is there a family member, friend, pastor or anyone that your H respects who could try to reach him?

Best wishes!

Eleanor-

Hey, good to see that you managed to get your message across in such a low key manner! It sounds like he took it about as well as could've been expected given the subject. And he admitting that his moods have little to do with you is significant IMO as lots of WS's would've chosen to lash out. You've done well with Plan A.

I know this must be scary for you what with small children but it really sounds like you're doing what's necessary to give the M any chance of surviving. And you know, he must be scared as well in addition to being totally confused. I think you're following a good plan of action by setting boundaries and giving him plenty of space to decide what he wants. Good luck to you and your family!

Good for you Eleanor.

I wish you well during this crucial time. Please keep us posted about what happens. In the meantime, if you H will not make a decision, decide what you will do. Hard I know, but be as prepared as you possibly can.

Lisa

Thanks for your replies...

I am feeling good about the "ultimatum" I gave H, but after thinking about it some more, I decided that I would "up the ante" and asked H yesterday for MORE. I am really at the point where I need more that his being totally neutral and polite, which is what I asked him for last week.

So yesterday, I emailed his saying that I also need him to start meeting some of my most urgent needs: affection, admiration, conversation, smiles, (all other needs are pretty much being met)

I have been living for SO LONG, like years, without those needs being met. I NEED to feel better with him, and being around him, when is so detached and cold, is killing my love for him, and putting a distance between us that I am worried will be able to be breached.

Strangely, and 90% sure that somehow, he will decide to re-commit to me and our family. But I guess I am also ready to take that 10% risk that he won't. I know that keeping things the way they are now is not helping...and I don't know why. Why doesn't plan A work sometimes? H is "in another place" I know...fog, OW on his mind..whatever. I don't even care to try to figure it out anymore...what a waste of energy! I have put SO MUCH energy into this problem that I cannot fix!

So anyways, his response was: "I guess I better go then"....boy oh boy...he's really in bad shape.

Since I totally expected him to respond that way..I am sorta ok. I will actually feel relief if he goes...for a period of time. What does this mean about where I am now???? I NEVER thought I would be "here"...

SO now he's just waiting for me to "agree" with that statement and tell him to go...he won't actually do it himself...it seems...why????? why is going to make me kick him out????

I am planning a nice dinner tonight...rented some videos...and gonna tell him to find an apartment!

I never thought it would be like this, when it "came to this"....

I don't recall the specifics about your situation. (Sorry)

But I do know that part of my W looked forward to separation because it meant more time for OP. And by allowing me to initiate Plan B, it absolved her of some of the perception of responsibility (i.e. guilt). It may not be for OW, but just leaving the marriage situation that is appealing.

The mechanisms for shifting responsibility are so destructively creative. Or rather, pathetic.

btw, I'm always impressed when folks are able to do the brave thing (it's brave because it's risky and scary) and do it in such a controlled manner liek you did. I hope it works out for the best.

<small>[ April 18, 2003, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: est ]</small>

est:
thanks for your input...but I have some questions...

Your W came back...does that mean the separation worked, even though it made her "feel better" for awhile???

I know that H might feel some relief, initially about going...but I cannot imagine that, with time, he will prefer it to what our home is...but maybe I am wrong....

What do you do if the spouse is totally in a fog, detached, cold, sometimes unpleasant...and the situation persists for MONTHS? Are you saying I should continue with plan A and him at home?

Are you saying that's too risky?

What happened with you?

I cannot keep him from seeing ow, even if he is at home! for pete's sake, he has had 2 bloody affairs under my nose! I cannot control the guy, he's got to make up his mind, and stick to it!

H is not seeing ow, but is in a deep funk, mlc, depression, existential crisis...nothing matters to him...I have been putting up with it for years. Check my recent posts (about 2 months ago, long one)

I appreciate the feedback...and would love more.

E

Hi Eleanor

I just wanted to let you know I was thinking of you and that you did well.

I think you are right to try and make some changes even if they are scarey and big for you. You do not need this constant pressure, and I think by taking control of the situation you will certainly have a good chance of waking your H from this slumber.

I agree that the reality of being by himself will be very hard. Yes, maybe at first he will feel the pressure is off, but believe me, the reality when it sinks in is very different. I still miss my H very much and wish that I could have him in my life, but know that this is just not possible now.

I'm not sure about some of the specifics of your questions, but it is hard to Plan A from a distance. It may be that if he moves out it will become natural to follow through to Plan B. How do you feel in terms of your love for him, is it running dry? If so, then that is usually when it is time for Plan B.

Take care and keep us posted
Lisa