Hello Everyone,
I am new as of today. It appears I should have searched for help many years ago on marriage builders.
Need advice on poor marriage of 20 years. Our marriage is filled with lies from the H in regards to propositions he confirms he has made, but denies ever having an affair.
W 38
H 39
Married 1983, have 2 sons ages 16 and 12.

We were 18 when we married, and we grew up together. It was a rough start, but we made it and decided our love was solid. After our first son birth, I was told by a friend that he was having an affair and was stalking another women at the same time. He denies ever having an an affair, but only asking. In 1999, he said he no longer loved me. He would not leave, even after I filed for separation. Then in 2001, I discovered he was calling my best friend and asking for sex. Just recently, I found pubic hair that was not ours in our bathroom and had to clean this up.
Because he has never truly been caught having an affair, he stresses he has done nothing wrong. He denies any affair in all 20 years. I just cannot believe this, his ability to be comfortable with propositioning women and not stopping this behavior after this long cannot be a sign of no affair.
I do not feel I want to try any longer to save this marriage. I know I cannot save it ALONE as I have tried for so many years. I do not see any actions from the H that are different from years ago after the last incident.
I am so lonely and in need of real love again.
The trust has been gone, but the desire to trust is gone now.
How can I move on at 38? I am afraid and my son's are very comfortable with what we have now.
I am so lonely that:
After 3 months of getting my nerve up and playing flirting games with a person that comes to my work place, I asked this man if he was willing to have an affair. He is married too, and he has refused me. I have never done this and have had one partner in 20 years, but I guess I am getting desperate.
Will it be that way in the single life? Rejection or never being asked? I am afraid it would be. I am not a unattractive lady, and I have men looking at me and commenting on how they hoped my H knows how lucky he is.
He does not
Do you have any advice or words of encouragement for me, cause I would appreciate them.

NR

<small>[ April 26, 2003, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: NurseRose ]</small>

Nurse,

It sounds like one of your main worries is finding another partner. I doubt that you will have a problem AT ALL, however, I would really caution you about dating at all until you recover from this mess. You need to clean up this current mess before you even think about starting a new relationship. You are extremely vulnerable right now and will be for some time, hence your poor, destructive judgement in propositioning a married man. [you set yourself up for that rejection, btw] Your judgement will not be right until you recover and learn to be comfortable alone. Otherwise, you will be extremely vulnerable to any man that comes along.

And I say this from experience. My DH of 20 years left me in April of 1999 and I started dating in May of 1999. I was madly in love with the new guy inside of a month just because I was so emotionally starved and vulnerable. I married him 3 months after my divorce and, in spite of a miracle that has turned it around, my new marriage was very tough initially.

But no, you are not over the hill. I was 42 when my DH left and I had no deficit of interested men asking me out. You won't either. Just please get your head right and resolve this marriage before you even think about starting a new relationship.

Thanks Melody,
I guess the lonely took over. The OM reciprocated the advances and teased. I told him up front, that if he was happy in his marriage then I understood. I was destined to fail and be rejected, as you said. I really cannot believe I went through with asking, and certainly do not know how I would feel now, if I was successful.
My H will not leave and says he is happy (except he wants sex more from me).
I told a long time ago (after the first incident) that I did not see me being able to meet his needs that way after finding out he has asked other women to meet them, but he just keeps asking and expecting me to forgive and forget.
My X best friend suffers with some type of illness that she says is lupus, but she appears to have HIV. My H has commented on this on several occasions in the past, but he still asked her to have an affair in 2001. That was the straw that broke me. I cannot endanger my life just so he gets what he wants (more sex). Our son's still need me to be around, so I have a hard time with sex with my H. Can you see why?
NR

<small>[ April 26, 2003, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: NurseRose ]</small>

Hello NurseRose,

Can I ask you this-what do you want?
Do you want to try and rebuild your marriage with your H?
Or do you want to divorce him and start again.
Melody Lane is correct, at 38 you are very eligible,(or would be as a divorcee)
If you want him to leave,and he won't you need legal advice.
Yoi also should decide about sex-do you want to keep having sex with him? If you are worried about STD's get tested. Then make him use a condom, if he won't get tested too.

I'm not really clear what it is you want to do? Maybe you don't know? Post some more about you and your situation.

Deluded

You are correct deluded,
I really do not know what I want from the relationship with my H.
I really do not what I have now. He does not wish to communicate. He says he is happy. He does not seem to understand my concerns or unhappiness and he denies having an affair.

I feel like I am crazy sometimes. This is where we are after so many years of one sided efforts to fix our relationship. You see, to him I am the only one that needs to fix something, cause he does not have a problem. I do not believe the M is repairible now. I have grown tired of trying. In my situation, it is the TRUST that is gone and this has resulted in a dead M.
Is this all our marriage is? My H works 6a to 6p weekdays, goes to his workshop at our home and works there (no $ income) after coming home till 7 or 8p, and then comes home and goes to sleep in the chair infront of the TV. He helps around the house when he chooses to. His actions seem to be one of stagnation, he does not respond to suggestions of the future (like remolding our home, refinancing our home, keeping the home in good repair, making plans for our retirement). He seems to just exist for what is now. He walks away from any attempt to communicate about our relationship, our sex life, our anything. BUT, this is not new to our M.
I must say I am still in the marriage for our sons. Now that they are 12 and 16, and do not need me as much. I have now realized that I do not have a partner/friend. I need more from my H than what we have, More than sex (which is at least on a every 2 week basis (protected), more than responsibility, more than worring about why he does not make me happy.
I want:
To not have to worry about being hurt again
I want to give and receive
I want to feel loved and give love
I want to talk, share, live, grow, and enjoy life.
To not feel I have to protect myself from my H.
A willing partner in a growing relationship.
To feel important/special to someone.
I want honesty.........
The children are older, and now I see I have not had this for many years now (and I really needed it all along).
Sad isn't it
NR

<small>[ April 26, 2003, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: NurseRose ]</small>

Everyone
My M has been functional and time has passed with responsibility. Day to Day we tackle what needs to done and go on with life as usual. I guess I am here because I decided to proposition someone myself. It just happened this week, but I am not feeling guilty in anyway. I believe I will do it again, and if this OM decides to change his mind, I will go through with it. I guess I feel bad about being rejected or maybe I just want someone to justify my actions. I do not have my H to talk to, so here I am.
NR

No one deserves an affair -- OP included. DV him if appropriate but don't be deceitful. An A is not the equivalent of divorce. It is worse.

<small>[ April 26, 2003, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: broken heart and arm ]</small>

Whats gives you your percieved right to gain some pleasure for yourself at the expense of someone else? Someone else in this case would be the MM's wife.

Im pleased the married man rejected your proposition... leave him alone. These pages here are full of the pain and misery because our spouses could not make the right moral decision as he did.

I honestly do feel your pain... but work on you.. not the destruction of anothers marriage.

You have a choice to make... stay in your marriage or end your marriage... but for gods sakes.. dont invite yourself into someone elses marriage you have no right to be in.

Take care

Dino.

Dino,
You are right leaving him alone is a good idea, now I hope he will stop flirting with me and the others at our workplace.
I will get brave and leave my H oneday, but for now, I am stuck with lonely.
Thank you everyone
NR

Anyway, I would not have chose this MM to persue if I was not willing to take him into my home as well as my bedroom and he had not made me feel he was available.
Our sons know that I am unhappy with my H, our oldest son has seen many of the reasons why I am unhappy, but nothing can make the past go away. I have had our children in therapy many times, and I would go also. My H refused therapy and believes I have just excepted him and what is between us. I stopped asking for him to get help or voicing my unhappiness to him over 2 years ago because it is just un-necessary stress for me and our children. If I leave then I take them from their home, a place where my oldest son works after school (the family farm), what I have worked so hard to have for us and what is to be theirs when I die. I feel my H has stagnated into a deep depression that I can not get him to see or seek help for. Still he searches for AW to give him happiness, and I thought maybe I should try it. My H is lifeless at home with me except when sex is mentioned. I am not sure you understand how lonely I am for a friend and companion with anyone right now. A friend that will just be there, listen, or love me for me. The worst part is, is that I would bet my H is in need of this also, he is just not willing to treat me like the OW to get these things he needs from me because of the guilt wall.
I do not believe I can get what I want from a MM, But maybe if the MM said yes and I had the affair, then I can feel wanted, special or loved a short time by someone. I can then confirm that my H should not be running from me all these years, and I can have someone else if I want to. I am not an affair type women, I guess I need reassurance or maybe it is just early menopause.
Sincerely, NurseRose

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by NurseRose:
<strong>I am not an affair type women, I guess I need reassurance or maybe it is just early menopause.
Sincerely, NurseRose</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Rose, yes you are an affair type woman. The only reason you haven't followed through is because your target said no. Just realize that this is what you have allowed yourself to become because instead of taking action in your marriage, you have allowed yourself to become so needy and desperate that you are reduced to seeking sleazy, destructive affairs with unavailable men. I can emphathize with your unmet needs. I understand that your marriage is lacking.

BUT SO DO YOU.

And what have you done about it? Is this to be your future? Seeking a few crumbs from someone else's husband who cares nothing for you? Why not take some responsibility for your own life and start taking steps to end this marriage?

Please understand that I am not saying this out of meanness, but out of compassion. You need a 2x4 up side of the head badly!

Goodness Mel
You're acting like you are the W of the MM.
Well, you must not know what can be worked on in 20 years of marriage that cannot be resolved if you do not have a willing partner. Counselors and much effort on my part has not shown progress, "My H refused therapy and believes I have just accepted him and what is between us. I stopped asking for him to get help or voicing my unhappiness to him over 2 years ago because it is just un-necessary stress for me and our children".

From a post, I quote; "I have had only one partner (sexual) in 20 years". It stands to reason I am not the affair kind of person. I see from your other posts that you can be a BU__ when you want to.
As far as the MM, he made himself available the minute he stated flirting with me! Do you think I just knock on his head and said lets go F__K?
All you have seen in this entire post is that I attempted to have an affair with a MM. There still may be an affair with this MM, so
READ ON <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
NR

<small>[ April 27, 2003, 12:16 AM: Message edited by: NurseRose ]</small>

Rose

you are wired for an affair... you have propositioned the MM to have an affair... and he knocked you back.

I am a tad confused as to why he would flirt then knock you back...perhaps you have misread his intentions? I dont know and I am not about to speculate..only you know the answer to that.

There is only one person who can fix this mess.. and that one person is YOU. Not your husband , not the married male... you.

If you are unhappy in your marriage.. then leave it. End of story. Nothing will ever justify YOU having an affair..no matter how miserable you are... nothing.

As I said before you have a choice.. stay in your marriage or leave it.....but dont invite yourself into anyones elses union.

No good at all comes from an Affair... just a gutfull of pain and misery... for everyone involved.

You can find a lot of support here....but I can guarantee you.. no one here will support you having an affair.

MEL
The point is I never asked for support with an affair???
A quote from my original post
"After 3 months of getting my nerve up and playing flirting games with a person that comes to my work place, I asked this man if he was willing to have an affair. He is married too, and he has refused me. I have never done this and have had one partner in 20 years, but I guess I am getting desperate."

I get your point about
!! get out of the 20 yr marriage NOW! I should not be concerned about what I have invested or what my children will loose by leaving, and I should just get out now, before I have an affair with a sacred MM
I done this to myself!!!!
I believe and I hear this is your support message loud and clear

BUT I DO NOT AGREE!

He was told by me from the start that I did not wish to mess up a happy marriage, so if he was happy then lets call it just friends. Thanks for asking..........

My M.....I will probably leave evenually but not until I am ready emotionally and financially.
NR

<small>[ April 27, 2003, 12:51 AM: Message edited by: NurseRose ]</small>

NurseRose

I understand the pain you are in and I know what you mean by not leaving until you are emotionally and financially ready. Unfortunatly that day may never come, if you want change sometimes you just have to leap. I too hit a point in my marriage where I was so tierd and fed up and alone, unfortunatly I was propositioned by a MM and didn't decline. My afair lasted a little over 6 months and though for breif periods I felt comforted for the most part my afair only made the lonliness worse, the pain more intense and greatly damaged myself image and self respect. One night I hit such a low point that I went out drinking with a co-worker, not even the man I was having and afair with and just didn't bother to come home at all. I hit a point that I felt it didn't matter who I was with, I had just plain gone numb, and lost myself in the depression that my affair and failing marriage built. My H was devistated and instead of realizing the error of his ways and his failings in our marriage, instantly I was to blame for everything. This has had a horrible effect on our son and on my family. Please do not do this to yourself, the affection and pleasure you will find in an affair is false and temporary and will leave you with and even bigger hole in your heart. Not to mention that if your children every find out, they will probably look at you as the one who has wronged their dad and them. Luckily my husband is willing to give me another chance, though he is not ready to move back in with me yet and still needs time alone. He tells me that he missed me and knows that one day soon he will be ready to come back to me and try and work things out. Please, Please, Please leave before you reach this point. Once you leave and start to heal there will be plenty of time to find the friend you are looking for, a real friend who truly cares for you. Best of luck, and remember that the sooner you leave the sooner you can find yourself and begin your life again. I wish I had.

NurseRose We can see that you are angry. You are loking for a way to feel loved and worthwhile and you feel that we are flaming you for looking.

No one disputes that you deserve happiness. It sounds as if you have done all you can to try and make your mariage meaningful, but have not been able to reach your H.

Some MM flirt outrageously but never intend to take it further. This is possibly your potential OM? Anyway, I am a BS. My M was stagnating,my H met someone who paid him the attention he was not getting at home, the rest is history....He's still here, we are getting on better than ever, apart from the inevitabe rocky moments.

I think my message to you is this:Sort your life out one step at a time. Being an OW will lead to such unhappiness. Read Jen Brown's posts or Lisa in London's.Both OW who regret what they did.You will need all your courage and resolve to leave your M. Don't waste it in an angry lashing out by having a revenge affair.

I think you do know what you want.You want out.So do it,and the sooner you start this process, the sooner you will get to where you want to be.

Deluded

NR

I am sorry that you find yourself here and in such a pickle. You must feel terrible trying to comprehend the magnitutde of what your H may (quite probably) or may not have done, and the continuing efforts you have put into saving your M.

Now, a simple question, do you want to save your M or not? I guess that because you are here, you are not yet ready to give up on it. In that case, read everything you can and get a copy of SAA. This will help you to understand more about why perhaps your H had an A and why you are tempted now.

On the Q. of whether or not you should have an A, well, how can I put this DON'T DO IT!!!!! I speak from experience as a FWS (Deluded, I am not an OW, never was per see <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) but am now in fact a BS. Which side of the fence is it easier to be? Neither is pleasant believe me, but the damage I did to my now WS was immense. However, the truth is, I sometimes think I did more damage to myself. Because as you say, you never thought after 20 years (neither did I) that I could possibly have an A. That was something other people did. To this very day, I abhor the notion of infidelity.

If you don't want to save your M (and I can understand how hard it must be given that your H thinks nothing is wrong and refused MC), it will be hard to leave. Your children are of an age that they will survive, and you too will survive, but it will be hard. Is it possible that you could take some time out for yourself and perhaps go and stay with a friend for a week or two?

NR, please come back and post some more. People want to help and support you, but it is sometimes so painful to read of other's mistakes, or potential mistakes. You do not know the damage you will inflict on yourself by having an A (and those you love), you cannot possibly comprehend it.

Take care of yourself.

Lisa

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by NurseRose:
<strong>Goodness Mel
You're acting like you are the W of the MM.
Well, you must not know what can be worked on in 20 years of marriage that cannot be resolved if you do not have a willing partner. Counselors and much effort on my part has not shown progress, "My H refused therapy and believes I have just accepted him and what is between us. I stopped asking for him to get help or voicing my unhappiness to him over 2 years ago because it is just un-necessary stress for me and our children".

From a post, I quote; "I have had only one partner (sexual) in 20 years". It stands to reason I am not the affair kind of person. I see from your other posts that you can be a BU__ when you want to.
As far as the MM, he made himself available the minute he stated flirting with me! Do you think I just knock on his head and said lets go F__K?
All you have seen in this entire post is that I attempted to have an affair with a MM. There still may be an affair with this MM, so
READ ON <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
NR</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Rose, no I sound like MelodyLane, who has a realistic view of what you are doing. The only reason you haven't had an affair is not because of any virtue on your part, but because someone ELSE said no. That makes you an affair-type person. That doesn't mean that I don't fully understand WHY you would be seeking an affair, not that it makes it right. I realize that you are vulnerable right now.

And I already know you have been working on your marriage for 20 years. As you have said numerous times, IT HASN'T WORKED. Yet you are still there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I see from your other posts that you can be a BU__ when you want to.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, you can count on me to not blow smoke up your [censored]. I have no patience for delusions and half truths. If that is what you wanted, you came to the wrong place, dear. Even so, I won't reply to your threads anymore. I came to help but I see that mine is not the type of help you are seeking.

<small>[ April 27, 2003, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As far as the MM, he made himself available the minute he stated flirting with me! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Surely you jest! While I do not think it appropriate for married people to flirt, I do not think that it means that they are "available" for an affair if they do. I guess every "single" man that might flirt with you is available for an affair also? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I tend to think that you might overexaggerate your attractiveness if you think that.

Kind of presumptious...wouldn't you say? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Why would you think that this man would "want" you in that way? It might be that you totally misread what transpired, and then when you blantantly propositioned him, and he turned you down flat, you have gotten a bad case of the a$$. And what's with the affair being contingent on his being "happy" in his marriage. Why would you use that verbage, unless to somehow "validate" your reason for conducting yourself in immoral activity! Might that be it? You think it would be more humane to do it if he isn't happy in his marriage? Why would you appoint yourself his outlet for a marriage that might be unhappy? Again, I think that presumption reigns with you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Goodness Mel
You're acting like you are the W of the MM.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WOW...did you ever think that Mel might be "A" wife of a MM that did once have an affair? Have some compassion here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> This is a site where people come to for support when things like that have occurred in their marriages.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It stands to reason I am not the affair kind of person. I see from your other posts that you can be a BU__ when you want to.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Evidently you must be an affair kind of person. Afterall, you have propositioned someone already! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> You could claim that title if you had NEVER done that...too late! IMHO, I think that you resorted to namecalling and an attack on the people here trying to help you because of the angst you feel toward the MM for turning you down.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> before I have an affair with a sacred MM
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See what I am saying? You are mad at him for turning you down. BTW, what makes you think that a married man or married woman are NOT sacred? I can tell that you were sarcastic with that word. Just so you know...here is a definition of sacred... Dedicated or devoted exclusively to a single use, purpose, or person. Cannot be much plainer than that...can it?

It is terrible to be rejected...and you are feeling it...in your marriage and now from someone that you hoped to involve in something amoral. I applaud the man that turned you down.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There still may be an affair with this MM, so
READ ON
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is there no end to your arrogance? Do you plan on making him some kind of prey? Or might you plan on making him your victim? Lord, the way you talk it might behoove all the women in town to lock up their husbands til you get a clue.

I guess its time for my scolding from the moderators or others on the forum..I have not been nice with all the DJs. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

committed

Mel,

I guess I was posting at the very same time that you were. Hope I didn't step on your toes. You were quite on point there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

committed