Hi all,

I am just so sad right now, though I should be feeling happy and be joyful. Let me explain.

I found out about my H´s A mid March. It was both an emotional and physical affair, with a woman he respects and admires because of her nice personality and her intelligence. My H has his own business and the OW is his biggest client. She was giving him valuable advice and insight to his business, to his little baby, where I could not. She was fulfilling his need for conversation which then led to become more.

The OW is married, but due to meeting my H she is proceeding with divorce, as my H is the “man of her life”. Never has she felt so much in love before, so she can not continue her marriage to her own H, knowing what feelings there can be out there in store for her.(She is desperately hoping my H will leave me for her).

Approx. three weeks ago my H had reached a point where my H saw that he could not carry on living like this anymore. Running back and forward from one woman to another. He and I have been really honest with each other and his message to me was that he loves me but he also loves her. I have Plan A:d ever since dday. I have been biting my tongue every time I held his hand to be his friend and listen to him even though it hurt. I have been counting sheep to sleep. Counting numbers when I felt like raging and being angry. I have not done anything to jeopardize losing him. No angry outbursts, no LB´s, being kind, gracious and understanding. The perfect Plan A, which opened my H eyes, for the strong and determined, loving woman he is married to.

Three weeks ago he told me he had to see her and tell her it was over. That he had to give us, our marriage, our family a second chance. He went and he told her. He said he had never cried so much in his whole life than he did that one night. He told me the pain of letting go of this OW and his feelings of love for her was so heart breaking. That seeing how heart breaking it was for her made him feel terrible, guilty. A bad person. I have made him promise me, that in order for me to build trust and faith in him he has to be true to me about what it is he feels. Even though the truth of his feelings for her hurt SO bad, it hurts even more when he doesn´t share his guilt, his pain his feelings. I have terrible trouble finding out when is too much too much for me, for him. Sharing so that it builds instead of destroys.

He fell back on his truthfulness last week. We had been away to London together and when we came back on the Monday morning the OW called him. Crying. Pleading that they should meet. He said O.K. He did not tell me that she called. He did not tell me of his plans. But my instincts told me something was not right. My H was showing so much attention to me all of a sudden it felt unnatural. He forgot to lock his phone, and on Tuesday afternoon I though I would give it a try and see if I could look into his messages.

The first unread message on the list was from her. She was looking forward to see him the next day at three. I was paralysed with shock again. (and then again I knew it..) My H came into the room and saw my face. He explained he had not seen the message (which is true because I opened it). He told me that she had called crying on the Monday and he felt sorry for her, guilty, did not want her to feel hurt etc… so he agreed to meet. But on the Tuesday he wrote an e-mail saying it would not work that they could not meet anyway. It would not bring them anywhere. He could not understand the text message she sent, maybe she did not read his mail. He did not tell me because he was afraid of hurting me again after our nice weekend away together. He did not want to destroy that.

It ended up with me joining him all Wednesday in his business. I was so uncomfortable with him being away from me, so I had to be there, be present

Where am I now? He is off on a business trip for two days and I know that the OW will fly wherever to be with him. She is always lurking in the background of my mind. Probably his too, since he has told me how much he loves her still. He told me that he is on this business trip on his own.

I have to and need to trust him. But I do not. I feel terrible because I feel paranoid all the time. Now I know what it must feel like if one is a really jealous person by nature. I see him being with her everywhere. I see him deceiving me again. Its not nice to have these feeling. Can I live with them?

Its really tough. He has chosen me and us and if I do not believe in him and his good intentions I think I will push him away. Because he is in withdrawal. Because he does not want to feel so guilty all the time. So I feel like I am walking on hot coals all the time.

Our recovery does not feel like true recovery either, because I can feel her presence in him still. So I am still Plan A:ing. Is this how it is? How is it for others in recovery???? I´ve only been doing Plan A for 7 weeks and I know he is looking for signs that I will relapse into being the indifferent person I was b4 the affair. It is only until I discovered the affair that I realized how MUCH I love my H and how MUCH I need to prove to him that love.

I wrote my H a text message an hour ago, which I would like to share with you;

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Dear H,
I want to share with you my feelings of great difficulty dealing with you being away from home. It is a far from pleasant feeling and it is very painful and makes me feel terribly emotional. Like- is this how I am going to feel the rest of my life? It really scares me to think if I will ever get over it, especially when all I want to do is move on and become a better me, a better us. If you would like to help me feel less threatened right now I think it might help if you could try to shower me with your attention and thoughts even though there is a distance. Providing that you feel you have the energy and desire to do so, as I know that you are having your own emotional turmoil right now, and you need me too. I can not think of any better solution right now, besided pushing these hurt feelings away by keeping myself busy and “out of touch” with myself. Maybe that is not such a bad idea, but I am not sure it is good either. Just thought I would try to share though the most natural thing for me to do right now would be to keep it inside…Love W </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He wrote me back half an hour ago, which I also want to share with you;

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hi love.
Been quite busy , still busy but will call you later when I am alone. Thank you for sharing your feelings/thoughts- I really hope we can move past this, as this is putting a lot of pressure on us both – and I can´t afford to buy tickets for both of us anywhere I go… Even though we both really are enjoying each others company – maybe we should not forget to feel the tasks ahead of us – and even once in a while just having those thoughts on our own – either inside or even alone physically…I love you and our new honesty thing, but it can be hard at certain points (like yesterday). I care so much for you and really love you- and I really wish for the best of us and our life together. Kisses yours H. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do not want to make him feel guilty. But he is. I do not want him to be more pessurised. But I am. I want to forgive, but the wound is still bleeding. I want to look forward to the happiness and joy we have found in each other, but inside I am still weeping. And on top of all of this it seems like he is more ready to look forward, move on with us, deal with his pain alone, sometimes together…and I just feel like I am picking up all the broken pieces, not knowing where to put them.

And like I said I still feel like I am plan A:ing. Being thoughtful and considerate and loving. Not letting out any of the anger, hurt and steam…And all the time I have it in the back of my mind that IF he lies to me again then I will go straight to Plan B no matter what. So am I in recovery or where am I, please MB veterans…HELP!!!

All this confusion is making me so sad, wearing me down....

-queen-

Hi,

Well..... do you have an MC or have you considered couseling via phone with Steve or Jennifer?

U 2 are in a place where you can both benefit from counseling along with reading and posting here. The book surviving an affair and His needs/Her needs are quite good. Have you both taken the emotional needs questionnaire?

Realize that there could be set backs. Also you may not be considered the enemy and the OW may turn her fangs on you. How? In many evil and sometimes subtle ways. Trying to make him feel guilty about leaving her. Pretending to push him back to you (the slingshot method). Claiming to be preggo (ooohhh boy, PBR - ow in our life did that # 3 times!), etc.

Know this and work on strengthening yourself. Let your H work on proving his value to you. The more time he spends on your R, the less he has to spend with the OW. Yes his feelings are strong and women have a knack for making men feel guilty...... Don't underestimate the power of an OW and always be one step ahead of her. Remember she is an evil and clever person. Willing to dump her family and covets yours.

Keep posting your thoughts.

take care,
L.

I am in a million pieces and the tears will not stop.

Funny that I should post a post saying "where am I". My H sent another text message last night saying he was out eating with so & so. Well So& so called last night cause he could not get hold of my H and said he got an allergic attack and could not go out eating...

I messageged that back to him, saying my fears were now proven right and that I was sorry he was still doing this to us, hope it was the right thing for him.

He then messaged me back and said he had to finish the relationship with OW for once and all. OW HAD to see him and he HAD to tell her that finished = no contact. So OW flew up to other country to be with him. Instead of keeping his promise with no lies and deceipt or secrets, he chose to do it AGAIN.

Its a load of bu%&!#¤?t that this was OW needs. He couldn´t wait to see her. Instead of being truthful and honest with me, where we may have had the chance to talk about his guilt and that he had to explain the NC issue (I might have gone a long to him seeing her 2hrs, with a egg clock in my hand, in a city close to ours). He f#%¤&"#¤g planned a night away with her.

Where is the respect for me? All the promises? All the honesty he is SO happy about <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ?

Please help.

My next move is to go and sleep somewhere a week or two. Told our au-pair the situation and said that I would be here for the kids in their everyday lives, nothing else will change besides the fact that I would not be sleeping here. I think I am on my way to initiating plan B and that Plan is really about me moving out, having the control. I do not want to sit around here feeling that my H has full control over me and the kids, where I have to beg and plead for him to take care of us.

This home we have built is the childrens. For me its just a wall of lies, a facade built on wobbly cards. We have only been living here for 6 weeks - he keeps on saying that this is the dream home for us. Dream home, my a%&!

I need to get some space, Breathe.

So there is a vacancy open on my side of the bed right now. Its for free. Anyone? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Oh, in his text message my H remembered to throw out a rope of hope..."talk to you my love tomorrow - and for me nothing what has been said or done between us is changed..."

Well something did just change for me.

It said SNAP! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

-queen-

Dear Queen

I have dipped in and out of your posts a couple of times and so sorry to hear of this latest betrayal and hurt. I think your gut instincts are right and that your H and OW planned this move, although I do believe your H is coming round too. But what do we call this? Cake eating/fence sitting.

Orchid gave some brilliant advice. Have you got the book SAA? I ordered it from Amazon and it came pretty quickly. I know other folks in the UK have used Steve H by telephone and I think it costs about £150 plus telephone call (maybe a bit less).

The idea of Plan B is when your love is running dry/out and your feelings for your WS will soon be gone. It is to protect those last feelings you have. Now given what your H has currently been saying, I think Plan B would be a real kick in the teeth to him right now (although that is not the point of Plan B). Layli who posts here sent her Plan B letter and her H came back within days, so it really can work.

However, it's not for me to decide what you should or shouldn't do, but I sense this is perhaps what you are asking, should you go to Plan B. Your H has been incredibly disrespectful (I can't believe how he can send you those messages and be going to see OW at the same time, that is horrrible horrible), but at the end of the day, only you can make the decision when you think it is right for you.

What seems to be clear to me is that if he continues to see her (under the guise of finishing the R), but she travelled to another city by plane, well, I don't think I need to spell it out.

I am so very sorry for your pain. Your post was one of the sadest I have read recently. The most important thing right now is to take care of you. Your worry and instincts about your WS going away were perfectly natural. What are you doing for you?

Take care of yourself.

Lisa

<small>[ May 13, 2003, 03:24 AM: Message edited by: Lisa in London ]</small>

Thanks Lisa,

I find it hard to do anything for myself, for my kids. I am just so drained of energy. I am sitting at work an not lift a paper. Feel so guilty about using the short time i have at work on my own life crisis.

Been talking to some family and friends and they all say and think I should not move out, that I should tell him to leave. But I know my H. If I tell him to leave he will then fly to OW and start living with her. Talked to my mother in law about this and she said it was a bad idea to tell him to leave, because once he is gone, he won´t come back. Once he heads for a course, he takes it. So I can´t ask him to leave.

Talked to my au-pair and told her the situation. I would like to share what my Plan B is now, please any comments would be appreciated.

My Plan B

When my H is not at home I will stay the nights in the house with kids. When my H is at home, I plan to shop for food, pick up kids, drive them wherever, make food and put them to bed, like always. But as soon as they are soundly sleeping I go to sleep elsewhere (friends, family, bed&breakfast). In the morning I will be there available for my kids again.

This is a tough life I am planning, but I simply cannot sleep under the same roof with my H. I don´t want him to sweet talk me into believing in it all again. I need space to THINK. I need him to realize that right now I am only thinking of the kids, and that our home and all those promises he has been giving mean less to me, because they have meant NOTHING for him.

I will tell my H I love him, but I cannot play the tune he is playing. I do not want to threat him with divorce, with seperation, with anything. I just want total QUIETNESS to think. At the same time I hope and pray that my H can see that his last move has had some consequences that CANNOT and I WILL NOT ignore.

"Kick in the teeth" I don´t know. Wake up call to get him to feel some remorse, I hope so.

The last text message I received from him is evidence of his affair.

Anyone got any advice on how to put that text message into another format so it can be used as evidence if we should end up in court and he might say that I left him and kids? Unfaithfullness weighs a lot more than me getting some space and a breath of air.

Anyway our au-pair would at anytime and any place testify that I am a good and caring mother and that my H was the one creating all the confusion and despair in me.

Please, does this sound like a good plan B?

-queen-

Latest text message from my WH,

Good morning love (if I may still call you that)- I hope you understood my message and understand me to some extent - I believe the mistake again was not being honest (but I really felt you putting a lor of pressure on me). If you still want me I am your- I have explained to OW and she has accepted my choice...She has asked if we can still talk once in a whil - and I told her we needed to discussthis, but since I believe it will also do me and thereby you good (he means that she is helping him with business decisions), I actually would like ot be able to do that, which I hope you can accept.I am on my way into the meeting (wish us luck) - and I couldn´t handle calling you first, since I am afraid of the talk we are going to have. Love you alot and I am sorry about this - looking forward to seeing you again! kisses H

What the h#¤%? am I supposed to say to this?
Comments? Does anyone have any feedback on my "Plan B?".

I really hope for some help here! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Now listen to me Queen - this is not about you, remember that. I think protecting yourself and your sanity if vital. Your first para is a real concern. Have you considered anti-d's? I know here in the UK, we're a bit funny about all of that, but I used them for 2 weeks last summer at my lowest ebb, and they really did help. You need a plan for you too (alongside your Plan B) because that is what will save you, looking after yourself.

Well, only you truly know what your H may or may not do if you ask him to leave. But remember, the statistics of things actually working out between him and OW are absolutely minimal. I think you should read up on Plan B here on the site (if you don't have the books). Listen I will even send you my copy of SAA if you need it!! You know how close you have become and how he will miss you and the children. And I do mean YOU and the children. I don't know if there is something around Plan B about OW having to meet all his ENs and of course, she won't be able to do that.

Your suggested idea, although sounding reasonable in principle, will put an awful lot of strain on you, although it is quite clever in that he will have to be responsible for the children over-night. However the disruption to your life will be immense. Before making any decisions, please read up on Plan B here and think carefully. Maybe Queen it is time for you to have some space and work on yourself. Also, if you do ask your H to leave and he goes to OW, well he's been doing that already hasn't he?

Take care.

Lisa

P.S. Sorry he is cake-eating - she's accepted the situation, but they still want to talk once in a while. I don't buy that at all. NC should mean NC irrespective of work situations

<small>[ May 13, 2003, 05:04 AM: Message edited by: Lisa in London ]</small>

Lisa, you have no idea how thankful I am for your response.

I have got SAA, his needs your needs, lovebusters...the whole works. I have had a depression before, and I am not there (YET).

You are right I need space. So I have to take that space. I cannot ask my H to leave, if he wants to leave, intitiate divorce etc...it his choice. I´m not saying that I am moving out for good. I´m not running away from my responsibilities as a mother. I just need to be able to be on my own for some hours every day, building my own "sanctuary of peace" so that I can think more clearly.

And somewhow Plan B fits into that, as that sanctuary of peace is to keep the last drops of love for my H intact.

Yes he is still wanting to cake eat. Both my H and OW are. She is being VERY clever, telling my H that she wants to help him with his business, help him build that, give him insight (god if her employer knew, she would be sacked on the spot). My H has no other partners to turn to to get that kind of advice. So she convinces him that she loves him so much that even though she cannot have him, she will still be there for him.

My poor hubby, does not see that she is just waiting in the shadows to attack in any given weak moment.

And he is being the BIG egoist, wanting his M to me, but does not want to give up on that EN for conversation to OW, even though it may mean hurting me. That is why he says it would be good for him and thereby good for "us" if he & OW can discuss these "business" issues.

I can´t even BEGIN to compete with her on that level. She was nominated business woman of the year in her country for crying out loud. She is on a zillion board of directors and what am I?

I´ve got ä university degree in business, I´m intelligent, but I made a choice to be there for our kids while they are young, support my H career, because two careers did not make sense to me with 3 very demanding children. So I´m the housewife. What a trap. I can never catch up on giving my H the insight and input he needs business wise. I can only listen, and hope that he can use some of the comments I give him once in a while.

Can you see what I am up aganst. It is SOOOO tiring. I can´t be the PERFECT woman. And now my H wants the best we can give to him from the both of us.

How convenient! But NO WAY! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

It really helps to vent these feelings out here.

-queen-

Right a slap round the head for you with a wet kipper (I mean this in the nicest possible way <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

"I can´t even BEGIN to compete with her on that level. She was nominated business woman of the year in her country for crying out loud. She is on a zillion board of directors and what am I? "

Do you really need me to answer this? You are loving wife and wonderful mother, you are a decent caring and intelligent human being. You are the all round good guy here. Who is she, well she is a coniving, manipulative cow who thinks it is perfectly OK to give up her own M without working on it and try to pinch someone else's H (oops, could be describing the "old" Lisa there <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) No, I would not judge her, I do not know her, but I will judge you. YOU ARE GREAT!!! You have a business degree and you have a job and you mother 3 kids....... Anyway, forget her, she is unimportant.

Re-read the stuff on Plan B. Whilst I understand tailoring Plan B so that you don't ask H to leave, you may still be enabling him and his A with OW. The fact that he can even suggest how she can help him and thereby you "us", is beyond my comprehension. If you are not there at night in the home, what is to stop him getting a sitter and going out? It would be more real and damaging to him to loose his "dream" home (his words), his loving wonderful wife, and 3 fantastic kids.... Think about it. Why should you continue in any sort of situation with 3 of you in it? You would certainly have your sanctury and space if you stay at home. I worry you will put too much pressure on yourself with your plan.

Chin up - I too have spent too much time here this morning, but your pain is immense, and I hope I could have been a little help to you.

Lisa

Queen, that could have been my post 2 years ago. The truth is, most EMR do not end right away. I have read on the OW board for over a year, and this is typically what happens. I am sure it happened to us as well. She is barganing. Trying to hang on, she won't be able to.

That said, you need to make a choice. I know you are hurt and angry (been there), but your H is not thinking with a full deck. (FOG)

At that point, I saw an attorney and find out my rights and to protect the children's right. I do not think you should leave, something legal about abandoning the marriage bed. You should also have the affair documented. Proof in case it comes to it. Can you put him in another room, so you can continue Plan A?

That said, 2 years out, those that have been in a similar situation to you, usually end up with their spouce. The WS needs to cut contact with OW, and you need to be strong, but their relationship has about a 3% chance of survival...none.

Read the info, do not LB. Always speak calmly and cooly-thinking things thru as if you are speaking to a child that doesn't understand. (OK try).

He is in fence sitting mode. He won't make a move until he is pushed off the fence. He blew it when he met with her again. Always trust your little voice that says someting is wrong.

You must morn the fact that the marriage will never be the same, that said, it won't usually be bad, just different. In fact I think it can be terrific for the WS, proves the for better or worse. For the BS...loss of that I would trust you with my life feeling.

I don't know if this helped, I don't know what to say because I have been exactly where you are and it stinks. I will also say that 2 years out we are happy in recovery and he gets it...finally. We have made changes-I followed Dr Harley's book and advice to a T. It worked for us.

One day at a time. Remember, the stats are in your favor. Affairs are not reality, it is fantasy. You have a family and history. It has nothing to do with you, it is your H's deficency, not yours. Something is missing from his nature...took me 2 years to figure out that it wasn't about me, it is about their selfishness.

Sorry for the typos...no time to proofread...hugs...Jersey Girl

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi!!! I wanted to write to offer some encouragement to you! Your OW is a REAL piece of work and she sounds VERY similar to the woman my H was involved with. My H"s OW was 35 and still single convinced that she wanted my 3 kids, brand new home, my H and all we had worked together to achieve over our long marriage. OW's jealousy hysterical scene throwing caused her and my H to break up 4-5 times after d-day before they FINALLY made a final break from each other. I was like you- doing a Plan A and my moods were on a rollercoaster that seemed to change minute by minute. I survived by going to counseling by myself and spending alot of time with Christian women friends and sitting in Starbucks for hours just thinking. In my case OW was pressuring H heavily to divorce me to be with her. It took him filing on me and having me served to finally wake him up to what he was doing. At that point he finally asked to come along to the counselor I was seeing and got some serious advice on how to break up with OW once and for all. My advice to you is try really hard right now not to let your anger go wild with H. Instead read read read and strategize! Read 'Divorce Remedy' by Michele Weiner-Davis and the book "Affairs' by Emily Brown- she is an expert in emotional type affairs like the one your H is in. I think you may be deep in shock right now because his contact with OW has continued and you have no control over if he actually talks to her and meets her. You want to trust him at his word but deep down you know that's not safe. When I was at this stage I was still dealing with the shock and grief and trying to influence my H's decisions. The incredible anger and resentment came later on and I needed alot of counseling for that. Breathe deep and keep posting here. I only wish I had had this board to post on during the time when my H was going back and forth between OW and me. And keep hope alive in your heart. My H swore to me that our marriage was "over in his head' and 'hopeless- and that counseling wouldn't help' and that he was leaving me and yet a few months later we were back together and OW had been transferred to another state. I say it ain't over till the fat lady SINGS! Take care!!! lifeismessy PS try really hard not to involve your kids in the theatrics- I know its just aboutimpossible but I managed the best I could with it and it certainly helped with our family life afterwards

Queen, your H is so deep in the fog and temporary insanity that he is not going to be able to make good decisions as long as you don't toughen up some. Not in an LB way but in a respectful I am a human being and I deserve better way. Your kids deserve better.

Before you do any version of Plan B please get professional advise...call the Harley's also an attorney.

When is your H due back...how much time do you have to prepare?

You said you have all the books, did you read them? Has your H read any of them. Being on the same page and team is critical and I'm afraid he's just not there yet. Something needs to wake him up...the much spoke about lightning bolt!

My FWH had several mini bolts and he came out of fog fast. I made it clear that having both of us for ANY length of time was not acceptable! He had to chose right away. This is one area I deviate from MB principles. If he'd have gone your H's route I would have ended up hating him and myself!

This is a life line to sanity. Thank you all who have the energy to actually take part in others grief and pain including my own. You are truly amazing people, showing so much care, tenacity and giving so much support with your opinions, whether they can be used or not.

THANK YOU <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My WH is on his way home in aeroplane and will be home within 2 hrs.

I´ve got to the point to share these text messages with you, hoping that there are some of you that are getting the same kinds of contradictions between words and actions, and therefore shedding some light to your own situations. Maybe it will help you.

My WH last messages were;

Hi love,How should I understand your silence? Should I call or...

Then he called and I said i could not talk right now because I needed to think. He asked if he was still welcome home. Out came a weak "YES".

(I felt like screaming NO, you bl&%¤#&y two timing bas"#¤%!d. Stay away from me. You are never going to hurt me like this anymore. Go and live with the OW & lets see how reality hits the two of you. I´m fed up of you, of her, of feeling like second choice, not special - GETOUTTAHERE!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> )

But I just came out with a bleak "yes". Pitiful isn´t it? No LB´s is SO HARD!

Then he sent me a new message shortly after;

Hi again love. I respect your need to think - but I hope you got the message from me telling you the purpose? I had to tell/explain - she deserved that...And I can only say I love you a fantastic lot, you are my love and I want to be with you in every way and situation - you (on my behalf) have me now more than ever...kisses from your sorry but in some ways more settled husband.

Could you please tell me the rules now? I dont want to do more wrongs...

I answered back saying I did not know the rules, that I was still paralyzed by the pain of the shock. I needed space to find away to get over the shock in order to think clearly again.

So thats the latest update. And I think after what Lisa said being concerned about the strain moving out might do to me, that she might be right. I need to read more about Plan B first and try to create the space at home.

It sounds like he might be coming around, so maybe just maybe it would be a good idea to give this some more time.

But I cannot Plan A, Plan B OR recover right now, because I feel like I am in a state of shock.

Do you think it is o.k just to be?

I am very much in doubt of what is right and wrong right now because I feel so drained, so NUMB! Anyone?

I really feel like I have been pushed to the edge, and to be quite honest, I am really really scared, because I do not know myself in this state of mind. Does anyone know that feeling of not knowing where you are, whether it is really shock or maybe it is a danger zone one needs help for? I´m very very uncertain.

-queen-

Hi Q- I posted to you earlier this morning and was checking back again now. I see that you are thinking about spending the nights away from the kids as a Plan B. I thought of that too but I decided against it because legally if you are living out of the house it could be considered abandonment and could endanger your custody rights. I know it would give you great peace of mind to be gone when your WH is home but PLEASE check with an attorney before doing this! I know you dont mention that your WH is planning to file on you but these types of emotional charged affairs CAN lead to divorce filing due to the pressuring of OW to get your WH all to herself.I asked my H to move out about 3 wks after d-day because he wasn't ending his A. He would say he would then go back and forth. My H did move out(said he was going to stay with friends) but ended up staying at OW's condo instead and lying about it. I figured he might be there. Actually it was the best thing in the long run- her constant pressuring on him to divorce me and his guilt about living out of the house and the kids asking him" why don't you sleep here at night anymore daddy?' really got to him during the 6 wks we were separated.He tried to pretend his life hadnt actually changed- he came home several nights a wk after work to see the kids for a few hrs and was even wearing his wedding ring still! Talk about FOG!!! My mom and pastor said to think of him as temporarily insane! And like my mom said to me,"Someone needs to be the grown-up here and right now its YOU!" Take care! lifeismessy PS I don't think I could have got thru all this without the help of anti-depressants - I took effexor which works on both anxiety and depression- you could get some from your family doctor

Plan B feedback: You would be doing WAY too much for him.

I have only been dealing with my H's A for a short time too.

When I first found out I thought, "Well, that's it, it's over, how can we get over this?"

I resolved to the fact we would live int eh same house for te next month and make plans to live apart. I would get my needs met, talk, cry, hug. Then I found this site and was guilty of every one of the LBs. I started changing my life, attitude, and especially my behavior around.

My point, I'm glad I didn't give up that first week or month. (It took him a week to send a N/C letter, I was lucky, but it was he!!) I waited for him and Plan A'd. But I didn't think of it as a Plan A, but more a behavior change. I need to change this way for good...

You know the things you have done (or not done) to make the environment ripe for an A (not that it's your fault). And you are changing these things. How much time do you need before you convince yourself that these changes you are making will stick...that's how much time you should give the M before jumping to Plan B.
Be clear about what you expect, and what the rules are. And something that helped my husband was when I asked him, "What do you need form me to help you get through this..." He told me he needed more attention.

Hi Queen:

My WS was cake-eating with me for the past 3 months and I think he would like to continue this. You might read my story if you feel like it.

I've realized that the cake-eating really caused me to doubt myself, lose my self-esteem, compare myself to her, even try to be a better her. By getting us in the triangle, the WS does not have to take a look at himself and how BAD he is.

It seems like you are doing some of the above. As others here have been telling me, we have to work on feeling good about who we are. We can't put ourselves on their level. It's hard but necessary in order to be tough and to regain self-respect.

I also see that my WS is temporarily insane and ADDICTED to the OW. This has been said to me repeatedly by Steve Harley. He is not really IN LOVE with her. Well, it's a sick kind of love. We are the sane, stable ones and we have to learn not to listen to what our WSes have to say. Do what is best for yourself and your kids. They need you now more than ever.

Take Care.

Queen-just checking back-you do not need to do anything now. No decision needs to be made. Take your tme. Get antidep. meds, something for sleep and take it one day at a time, you need time to digest this. Let's face it, we BS know you have just had the life sucked out of you. He will not get it for a long tme, but when he comes back to earth after his alien abduction, he will slowly come to.

I took care of my kids, did what I had to. I did not leave, he slept in the other room for a few days. At first he was going to move in with OW, thought I would divorce him immediately (yea, so did I, but it is different when it happens to you). He was making plans to leave on the weekend, so I told him I was going to an attorney. Within 24 hrs he stopped seeing her, so I thought. He did, but a week or two later they did get together, at least to talk, maybe more.

It took months of plan A, the WS goes thru withdrawl symptoms as if they are getting off of drugs. You are there for them, but no one is there for you. (Trust me on this one, if you stay, he will thank you later and marvel at your strength).

I kept meeting his needs, and suddenly, he was his old self. Loves me like crazy now. It took change on both parts, but we have and it is better than ever.

What happened to the OW? Who cares!!!! She was not part of our marriage, so I could care less. That is her problem. How dare she get between what God has joined together.

Anyway, what I am trying to say is that we are here for you 24/7. It will get better. You need some time to morn. One day at a time. From what you wrote, he loves you. He is going to try and just move on with his relationship with you like it was no big deal. They do that, they don't get it at first. Mine got it when another guy was coming on to me. Really shook him up, and I didn't respond to this other man because I have no interest in a EMR. Trust me, I'd do it the right way, but I love my H.

If you love him, stick it out, at least give it a try-

Queenof...

Here are some of my suggestions...

Right now let go of intrusive thoughts of OW...you husband is who you must deal with....
He is the one responsible for continued contact such as MEETING WITH HER IN PERSON ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
she should get none of your attention and time...

Time to get your ducks lined up in a row..
time to decide what is acceptable from this moment forward in your world and what is not acceptable...and what YOU are willing to do/not do when lines are crossed....

You must realize that LB's and setting boundaries are NOT the same thing...even when the WS perceives them as such...they totally have to own that feeling as a consequance of thier own actions...and not any type of emotional backlash...

They will try to make you believe that the unacceptable is acceptable...and rationalize their behavior in to the ground...

You are allowed to decide for YOU that..

1. even if cutting contact with OW results in financial ramifications that is irrelevant to your marriage ....

2. Any type of contact with OW will be evidence of someone who is not willing to work at an exclusive relationship with you...that actions do and always will speak louder than words...

YOu find focus and control by gaining control of what YOU can control....

I am very concerned that part of his messages talk of ending contact once and for all while at the same time speaking of her wanting to still to be able to talk and him thinking this is a good idea.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I don't think you should move out...but I also think that you need a few days to have some time to really reflect and think about things...that you just lay low right now...

NO relationship talk....spend some time writing things down...
how you feel
what you want to say to him..
what you want him to say to you..
where you see yourself in a year..
where you want to see yourself in a year...
how it hurts how it makes you mad...
get it all out....on paper....so that when you face him you can be in control...

He's gonna fly in and try to gloss this all over...I am concerned about your first post even... I do not want to make him feel guilty. But he is. I do not want him to be more pessurised. But I am. I want to forgive, but the wound is still bleeding.

Do not protect HIM from the emotions of his own actions and choosings....this is what concerns me...that you are starting to believe it is your job for recovery to protect him from his actions...
the only way people really learn is to live the consequances....

tell a child not to touch the stove till you are blue in the face....it never works...for each will reach out once and find out for real....sad thing is that two year olds retain it much better than some grownups... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

take a few days to mull this over....in the house...

ARK