I’m new, so I’ll try not to let this go on too long.

My wife told me about 3 months ago that she had an affair with my best friend. He and his wife were our best “couple friends” and we did most everything together….from church to weekend activities to vacations to everything else (no pun intended).

This had the double-whammy effect on me since I found out that my wife had been unfaithful, so I have and am going through the emotional ride of that, but I’ve also lost my best friend (was for a time anyway).

So far I feel that I’ve dealt with things fairly well. My wife has not committed to our marriage yet, but she does not stop me from meeting her EN. I believe that she is still in contact with the OM, but from what I can tell it is not still physical. Mainly phone and email. I’m working to find out more about that. My wife is pretty honest with me when I ask her, but she stops short of telling me details of the relationship currently, and I don’t care to press her. I feel that will just drive her further away, though she would most likely answer my questions if I persisted.
She is currently in counceling (has been since before she told me of affair) and I believe her therapist is committed to helping things work out with our relationship.

I have an extremely good outlook and I believe that things will work out eventually. I know I can’t rush things and am just biding my time, doing as much for her as she will let me (so far she hasn’t drawn any lines)
Overall, we have a better relationship now than we did for our first 6 years of marriage. She sees and acknowledges that I am committed to being everything I can be for her. I know she is struggling with making a decision, and I am trying to make our home the most inviting place for her to be.
I haven’t “officially” initiated a Plan A exactly, but I am following the guidelines for that to the best of my understanding.

My question today doesn’t really have to do with my situation at home, but with my “friends” wife. For the first couple of months after I found out, I was expecting her to contact me and want to talk about things. I’m not sure exactly <b>why</b> I thought that, but I did just the same.
A few weeks ago, she did that. I got an email from her asking me my opinion on some things. Nothing specific about the affair or anything like that (I don’t think her husband has been as forthcoming with the info as my wife has), but just my personal opinion on things she should do.
I know everyone will say “Red flag! Red flag!” , but every email that I get from her is immediately forwarded to my wife and every reply is sent to my wife before it goes to her. I don’t know this girl’s intentions….they may be totally innocent and she’s just looking for someone to make sense of things for her (not sure why it’s me, but…..). Then again, she may be looking to “get even” or something like that. Of course, I am totally uninterested in anything like that, which is why my wife knows every word that is exchanged.

I just wonder how I should handle this situation with her? I know the girl fairly well, and we’ve been friends for the last several years. I have been very up front with her about not wanting to communicate much since that is how her husband and my wife started out.
At the same time I hate to say “Don’t contact me any more”. I hate being that harsh with people (though I will if I need to)

Mainly I feel that I am the only one of the 4 of us that is trying to make progress in this situation. I can’t control everything my wife does and have finally realized that. I can’t do anything about her indecision. My goal is to show her that she has everything she could need or want at home.

The other girl….she doesn’t seem to know which way to turn because her husband won’t work with her at all (from what I gather…most of my info comes from my wife, not direct from the other girl).

Her husband…..I don’t know, nor do I care to find out. I just want him out of my life. I want him to get his mind off my wife and attend to his own business.

I feel this has left me juggling two situations and I only have the desire or strength to deal with one of them.

I’ve read the books (over and over), but of course every possibly situation can’t be addressed. Most things you read kind of approach from a standpoint of a co-worker or neighbor or whatever. I know that affairs usually happen between friends, but this is a little different. They were best friends and they live a couple of miles up the street.

Any suggestions?

Consider telling her not to contact you anymore without explanations. If you waffle and continue allowing her to contact you, your WW may perceive this a green light to contact the OM as well. And until your WW ends all contact with the OM there is NO marital recovery for your M.

I'm not really waffling. She was contacting my wife for "support" before that (if you can believe it).
I'm taking every cue in this situation from my wife.
I think my wife feels that she can't offer the girl anything, but since she feels bad for what has happened, she feels that I can be of help.

Her contacting the OM has nothing to do with this. She's been doing that (from what I know) for 6 weeks or so now.

So your W and OM laid low for about 6 weeks, and now they have been in contact for about 6 weeks? That is a typical pattern when a cheating spouse is found out, and one that I observed in my own case.

Your W seems to be calling the shots in this relationship (?) between you and the other W. Is there any possibility that your W would like to encourage an affair? Sometimes, a wayward spouse will do this in order to level the playing field. That is something I saw, and I think many others have as well.

Maybe you could develop more information on exactly how you stand at home - that's the most important thing.

Again, I don't know anything for sure about their contact, but when my wife first informed me of the affair, she would not tell me who it was. In fact, she swore up and down that it was nobody I knew.
I know that overall she was trying to keep an ugly situation from getting uglier by informing me that it was my best friend, but it just wound up dragging things out.
I found out who it was on my own a couple of weeks later.
From the beginning, my wife was of the mind that she would never be able to cut things off unless I knew and she had someone to be accountable to. That told me that (at least at the beginning) she was wanting things to end with him. I know the first several weeks were very hard for her, but I believe she stuck it out. I'm not sure of the specifics of the new "first" contact, but I know she called him.....since then, I really don't know a whole lot, but I did approach my wife about it (not mad) and the only thing she would confirm for me is that there was no physical relationship going on still. She would never give me a straight yes or no about if they were still in contact, so I took that as a yes.
Most of me wants to make a big deal of it, but I know this is something that she is going to have to decide for herself.

My wife really isn't calling the shots in my contact with the OMW. I am just being so careful (more for my own sake) to be sure that she's privvy to everything that is said. She doesn't tell me what to say or do, but I do want to be sure that she's comfortable with it.
Just to clarify, it's not like the girl is contacting me alot. There have been a handful of emails and a phone call or two. I did see her once, but that was because I had some things that belonged to my "friend" and needed to get them back to him. I dropped them by their house when he was at work. My wife knew of that as well.

As for my wife encouraging an affair. I seriously doubt it. We have talked about that in length, and that possibility has been raised (that the other girl had that in mind), but it's been more of a joke between my wife and I. I know that sounds bad, but it has.

My standing at home right now is very good in my eyes. Granted, in some ways it's not good because I don't have my wife 100% to myself, but again, that's not something I can control.
She and I have a deeper relationship than we ever have in 6 years. I can see that she is very encouraged by this, but I know too that she is "in love" with 2 people, as she puts it sometimes.
When I step back and take the last 3 months into consideration, I can see that her feelings for the OM are becoming less and less of an issue....I would assume because it's possible that they may be fading? I don't want to jump to conclusions, but you know how your hopes can latch on to an idea sometimes.
We spend more time together than ever, and the time we have is quality time and not just "being around each other". We talk more than ever before, which was the biggest EN that I hadn't been meeting previouisly.

I am more encouraged about things than I have been since the beginning. There are still certain things that bother me and one is her continued contact with OM. I'm not ignoring it, but I'm not going to make an issue of it and push her about it (I've gathered that's the best thing?)
But as far as the whole situation goes.....I have moved past alot of the hurt and "why me's" that I went through to begin with. Not saying that they won't be back or never hinder me, but it's not as much of an issue now. My only goal is getting our relationship to the place that I know that it can be.

<small>[ May 15, 2003, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: flandar ]</small>

I wouldn't be ok if I thought my W might be having sex with another man. I would definitely want to know ("pretty honest" wouldn't cut it for me) and take more active (and wise)steps towards NC or more honesty. You can't change her mind for her, but you can take steps that will go into her processing. You speak a lot about "don't care" or throwing off responsibility or placing things beyond your control on your part - and it seems to be a be bit of an extreme shift from overcontrolling.

As for the OM's W (Your question). You didn't really say what she would ask about other than describe it as "What she should do" stuff. Should do about what? I thnk you'd want different advice if she asked "I have these feelings for you, what should i do?" v. "I want to get back at H, what should I do?" or "I want to save my marriage, what should I do?"

I would actually suggest find out what her intentions are for her marriage and sharing of "intelligence" to confirm information you already have. But keep it formal. Then probably break off all contact with that couple after a certain point.

FWIW, your W's probably continuing EA with the OM seems to be a huge factor in the continuing destruction of someone's else's marriage, so the general impression of not caring seems pretty self-centered. Of course, your marriage should be the priority, but the consequences to other folks should not be ignored. And what often helps others, ends up helping you. Anyway, the effect on your neighbor's marriage may be worth discussing with your W.

One final comment. WS's often follow a line of thinking along the lines of "hmm. If BS is acting ok about stuff, then they probably ARE ok with what I'm doing" even if BS has no idea what that "stuff" is. Oh, and stop using the word "control" as an excuse.

<small>[ May 15, 2003, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: est ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WS's often follow a line of thinking along the lines of "hmm. If BS is acting ok about stuff, then they probably ARE ok with what I'm doing" even if BS has no idea what that "stuff" is. Oh, and stop using the word "control" as an excuse.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree, because they will beleive that there are no consequences to pay for continuing contact with their OP. It is for this reason that the BS needs to sit down with the WS and calmly explain that if s/he continues to have contact with the OP and refuses to recommit to rebuilding the M, that eventually the choice will be taken away from him/her and may not be to his/her liking. It is not a selfish demand but a simple statement of fact.

I should respond to all of this in order, but I guess I'll take it in the order I think is important.

First off...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, and stop using the word "control" as an excuse.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not disagreeing, but how am I doing this? Honest question? What kind of excuse do you see me using that as?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">....so the general impression of not caring seems pretty self-centered.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is that directed to my wife's attitude or mine? Again, just wanting to clarify so I'll know how to take what was said. This is the first true feedback I've gotten about my situation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You speak a lot about "don't care" or throwing off responsibility or placing things beyond your control on your part - and it seems to be a be bit of an extreme shift from overcontrolling.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, how do I come across as not caring? Or shirking responsibility?
I'm not trying to come across as that, just I gather from the reading I've done (mostly Harley books) that there is a time that you need to do everything you can do for your relationship and not "make waves" etc. I may have things all wrong, but I do get confused when I read things like SAA, then I jump to this board and things really seem to contradict what I've read or are taken to extremes. It's hard to find a balance.

OK, now back to some order.

I may have mis-stated my feelings. I'm not OK with the currect situation. I guess a better explanation is that I feel that I'm now dealing with things instead of just thinking about what's happened all the time. I feel that I'm making progress with me if nothing else.
I'm in no way "OK" with the thought of her still contacting the OM. I have brought this up before and asked very pointedly if she is still in contact with him. Her avoidance of my question was answer enough, though it didn't give me any specifics.
To keep anyone from guessing, should I push this? Should we sit down and should I point blank ask, "what's still going on with you two?" etc?
She will talk to me, but when we have talks like that, of course, they are emotional.
The problem that comes in (and this may just be an excuse on her end) is that she doesn't want to be pushed into making a "decision". She's read SAA and other Harley books and she knows the "normal" progression of these situations. She says sometimes that she feels that things may have to just "die a natural death" for her to truly be over things. My response is that I don't want her to leave and test those waters before she gives us a real fighting chance. Why go to the trouble of moving out and reorganizing your life in that way when it would be so easy (in my mind anyway) to give things at home a chance and see how that goes?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As for the OM's W (Your question). You didn't really say what she would ask about other than describe it as "What she should do" stuff. Should do about what? I thnk you'd want different advice if she asked "I have these feelings for you, what should i do?" v. "I want to get back at H, what should I do?" or "I want to save my marriage, what should I do?"

I would actually suggest find out what her intentions are for her marriage and sharing of "intelligence" to confirm information you already have. But keep it formal. Then probably break off all contact with that couple after a certain point.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When she first contacted me, I was figuring she would want to ask me specifics about the affair. My wife has been very forthcoming with details about the affair, and I'm pretty certain the OM has not provided his wife much information other than "it's over. drop it" That's what I dreaded before she contacted me.
That coupled with the fact that my wife had asked me not to divulge any info she had given me to anyone without talking to her first (a respectable request I think) and I agreed to that. She wanted the details to be between us.
Anyway, the conversations I've had with OMW have not been about the affair. She truly believes that things are over between her husband and my wife.
The first thing she asked me was for my personal opinion on her as a person. She wanted another male's perspective on her and said she couldn't think of anyone else to ask.
I gave her an honest opinion and was very formal about it. Nothing personal.
Other things have been about current happenings with her relationship and her asking me how she should react. Things like "he (her husband) said such and such and I don't know how to react. What should I do?". Things that I don't have a clue or really care about.
There have been no expressions of feelings on either end. I don't know for sure what she wants for her marriage, but the thing I keep repeating over and over to her is that she needs to decide what she wants before she can really know how to respond and react to situations as they arise. I've told her I have made my mind up that I want my marriage to work and I am going to devote every ounce of my being to doing just that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anyway, the effect on your neighbor's marriage may be worth discussing with your W.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We have talked about this. I think she is aware that the toll their activity is taking on his marriage is the same or worse than what it's doing to us.
He's just fed her a line (may be true, but it's still a line) about how he's never been happy with his wife and he would probably leave whether she (my wife) were in his life or not, yada yada yada. Part of me thinks that she's waiting to see how their situation is going to work out before committing either way.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One final comment. WS's often follow a line of thinking along the lines of "hmm. If BS is acting ok about stuff, then they probably ARE ok with what I'm doing" even if BS has no idea what that "stuff" is.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think I've given her the impression that I'm "OK" with anything. We do talk about things...hopefully I've been clear about that. I'm not guessing or assuming anything any more.
I've told her recently that (following MB tips here) that I love her with all my heart, but knowing that she's still keeping a relationship with OM is tearing me apart. I don't want it to be that way. I know that I can't remove him from her life.

Am I wrong here? How should I handle that?

Hello Flandar

Yes you are in an odd situation. If you keep contacting her for help or anything else you allow your W for further contact whith OM. Also, you are in a very weak point and things can turn around. Use the effort on your wife and M.

On the other hand why you don't refer her to MB? I'm sure here she will find lot's of ppl willing to help her and that will give you the time and concentration to work on your M.

Take care

<small>[ May 15, 2003, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: matilde ]</small>

Thanks. I have done just that. The first time we spoke I told her about the site and the last time I did the same and gave her some suggestions of a few book she should read.

Just to clarify (and I'm not trying to justify anything here) I'm not the one that has contacted her. Every case has been her contacting me. My quandry is how to reply. I'm not looking for help or anything else from her.

Just a thought...the OM's W may be in shock, genuinely confused about her needs, and half-looking for an A of her own without even knowing it -- for comfort, reassurance, revenge, whatever. She sounds like she's ripe for wandering into something. Is there another mutual friend that can help her clarify, thus getting you off the hook?

That has been in the back of my mind this whole time. Hence my reluctance and confusion.

I know on one hand that she very well could be looking for that whether she knows it or not. In which case I should turn tail and flee.

But I know that there's possibly another explanation and since she is (was) a friend, and in a way, there's a part of me that 1. feels great sympathy for her because I'm on the other end of the same situation, and 2. feels a tad of responsibility because I know that my neglect in my own marriage played a part in putting her where she is now.
Not that I owe her anything because she's on the flip side of that coin.
But I don't want to just say "get lost" or come off as rude unless I have to. Not until I know more of what's going on. I don't see the need in crushing someone.

As for her turning to someone else....I'd love to do that. I know she has an out-of-town sister that she's been talking to quite a bit, but she was talking to her before she ever contacted me.

There are some mutual friends since we used to go to church together, but I'm not turning any of them to her because I really don't want to involve people we (me and my wife) still have relationships with for obvious reasons. The reasons are more my wife's than mine....call it saving face or whatever, but I don't want people to know either.

Perhaps, &#8220;control as an excuse&#8221; was a bit strong. A do see it come up a couple times as a qualifier to some statements. I think I got this impression (exaggerated in my own mind) that there are a lot of &#8220;I want to do X, but won&#8217;t&#8221; which is somewhat negative. For the most part I saw it as reasonable cautiousness about taking something to an inappropriate extreme, but there were some exceptions. In one case, inability to &#8220;control everything W does&#8221; is followed by how you &#8220;can&#8217;t do anything&#8221; about W&#8217;s indecision. Obviously you can do lots of things. Some helpful, some not. But perhaps wording it as &#8220;not knowing what you should do leads one almost automatically to the next step &#8211; &#8220;So, how do I find out what I should do?&#8221; rather than &#8220;Well, I might as well not try&#8221;. &#8220;I can&#8217;t remove him from her life&#8221;. Perhaps. But you can take steps that will lead to distance in their relationship. And you can take steps that will draw them closer. I know that you don&#8217;t feel the &#8220;can&#8217;t&#8221; way completely. It&#8217;s just the wrong kind of wording can take a lot of power away from you. Yeah, this is probably mostly psychobabble (changing words isn&#8217;t going to save your marriage by itself), but I&#8217;ve learned to be more conscious of use of language along the lines I write about &#8211; and it seems to help.

It&#8217;s usually more of a problem for the fog-bound WS. They &#8220;can&#8217;t do anything about the feelings&#8221; or whatever. You know at least some of what I mean because of your smart use of quotes around your wife&#8217;s words.

The language of the post also used a lot of &#8220;don&#8217;t care&#8221; or equivalent phrases. I can understand a lot of your actual feelings and viewpoints with the new reply, but I felt that there was a lack of sympathy for the other BS and a potential lack of understanding of how the other marriage can continue to impact yours. Basically, I felt that you should care. I&#8217;m telling you how you should feel &#8211; but I am not your spouse. J/k. Actually, I was wondering why you didn&#8217;t care. But I feel you clarified things greatly.

I&#8217;m glad we got the &#8220;I&#8217;m not ok with contact&#8221; out. It really wasn&#8217;t that clear to me from the post. And assumptions can be bad sometimes. Telling your W how you feel about the continuing contact is generally the right thing to do. (Note everything should assume that communication is done calmly and nicely). And NC is definitely a high priority goal. In order to make more of a comment though, it may help to understand how your W reacted when you talked about it. Of course, we already know her actions.

Perhaps in general it would be more helpful in understanding the situation if you continues to state what was said, rather than simply that something was said. For instance, your feedback to the OM&#8217;s W might have gotten some folks gears spinning.

Anyway, back to your question. I like to know stuff. I consider it part of the intelligence gathering that helps in making the best decisions. In light of the fact that the situation of the other marriage may have a big effect on your W, I would want to know as much as I could about the other marriage and their progress. You&#8217;ll see the occasional instance of an OM&#8217;s W who was left somewhat clueless, but once they found out the truth, OM broke off A and went home. It could also kick him out of the house, but without the intelligence gathering, those options become closed to you.

I don&#8217;t think it would take that much strength to get information from OM&#8217;s W. But you know how much emotional currency you have to spend on improving your situation. In my case having sources of information other than a WS of dubious trustworthiness was actually a source of energy in that I didn&#8217;t have to spend as much energy wondering about W&#8217;s honesty. Still had to, but not as much. And verification generates trust, which in turn generates hope. I think it&#8217;s great that you do not rationalize out of breaking the &#8220;don&#8217;t share what your W tells you&#8221;. But it does sort of restrain you in terms of managing the OM&#8217;s W as a source since you can&#8217;t offer as much back. I think you&#8217;re making the right decision about honoring the commitment (I may have thought more about making it in the first place), but there may come a point where information between the two of you should not remain between the two of you. Btw, isn&#8217;t it ironic that information that should be kept between the two of you is so well known by OM?

FWIW, it sounds like you are doing a great job on things in that your W is coming to learn what great things she would give up by pursuing the A (remnants?). And even though it is through a mask of strong feelings, your situation (among similar situations) seems to be on the high end of the spectrum in this regard.

So just to summarize, I think OM's W can be a useful resource. But I'm ok if you do not find the energy to handle that situation since it is extra work and risk.

I'd write some more ramblings, but I am time constrained now.

est,

Thanks for your reply. I think we're more on the same page now.
You'll have to forgive my earlier generalness (is that a word?), but honestly, this is the first that I've been able to get any of this out to someone other than my wife.
It's not as much the fact that I agreed with my wife that I wouldn't talk about this (and it hinged on talking to people we both know) has kept me from sharing with the few people I would trust the most.
That, added to the fact that my wife is currently seeing a therapist and I really can't foot the bill for 2 seperate fees per week, has really kept alot of this bottled up.
I'm so thankful that God hears our prayers.....I would go nuts without some sort of outlet, even if it's not a face to face.

Anyway, that explains me being short with the info. I'm kind of testing the waters here to see how much I want to throw in.

My statements about not being able to change my wife's mind....that's more in the sense that I can't just say something that's going to make her stop and say "Oh...I didn't think of it that way. You're right, I'll cut things off right now and fling myself back into your arms". Not in the sense that there's absolutely nothing I can do to sway her thinking. I know there is and I'm doing everything I know to do. And it has made a difference to date. We're just not quite there yet.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I felt that there was a lack of sympathy for the other BS and a potential lack of understanding of how the other marriage can continue to impact yours.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, I greatly sympathize with the other girl. That's what terrifies me in the sense that I know how easy it would be to let her open up and do the same myself. But I know that's how affairs start in the first place. Just sharing.
I can plainly see the struggle she's going through and that's why I'm not sure of the best way to handle that situation. The easiest thing would be either give in and just let her share and run the risk of becoming attached, or tell her it's not a good thing for us to be communicating at all and just let things go how they go.
I do realize that there's a fine, fine line that has to be walked in order for me to continue in this situation with her and not have someone get burned.
I know that I can use it to my own advantage, and to an extent I already have (inadvertantly). When I went by there yesterday to drop off some of the OM belongings, we talked for a few minutes and two things she said jumped out and bit me on the butt. She said that she had seen that her husbands cell bill was $30 more than it should have been last month (she hasn't put it together that he and my wife are still holding out...she thinks that he's moved past my wife and has found someone else....still trusting what he says). I probably should have told her what was going on, but I feel that if I start telling her things and making this a 2-way info swap, I'm betraying some trust that I have with my wife. And I don't want to go there.
The other thing she said is that she is going ot see her sister (the one that has been such a help to her) in California next week and her husband is staying at home with their 3yo son. That scares the bejeebs out of me. Knowing that he'll be off work for several days straight and that I can't be around to verify that nothing is happening.

So I know that I can get info I can use, but I just haven't decided if I'm up for it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Telling your W how you feel about the continuing contact is generally the right thing to do. (Note everything should assume that communication is done calmly and nicely). And NC is definitely a high priority goal. In order to make more of a comment though, it may help to understand how your W reacted when you talked about it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To date, we've only had a couple of bad conversations. And those really weren't about the affair or resulting actions. We've always come to an agreement before talking about touchy issues. And they've been extremely civil. Emotional, but civil. We usually feel closer after talking than we did before, but it usually brings the same "I'm torn between two people. I don't know if I can let myself trust you not to hurt me again. I'm not sure if you're what I want for my life." etc. etc. etc. Mostly sounds like excuses to me, but I have to just trust that they're real feelings for her and not just a line of crap.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Perhaps in general it would be more helpful in understanding the situation if you continues to state what was said, rather than simply that something was said. For instance, your feedback to the OM’s W might have gotten some folks gears spinning.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will keep that in mind for the future. I don't have the time to go into it at the moment, but I will when the time presents itself. Mostly it's been encouragement to decide what she wants for her life and to put all her effort into bringing it about. Real cut and dried, but I'm so intent on keeping my distance that it's about all I can come up with.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I like to know stuff. I consider it part of the intelligence gathering that helps in making the best decisions. In light of the fact that the situation of the other marriage may have a big effect on your W, I would want to know as much as I could about the other marriage and their progress.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, I'm the same way. I want all the info I can get. Whether it comes from the OMW or from me swiping emails or prying wherever I have to. My imagination is WAY too active for me to leave that much unanswered.
At the moment the info I have is kind of trickling, but I see some possible breaks in the future.
As for getting this info from OMW, I know I can get this at any time, but I want to know what I'm getting into before I open that door. I don't want to get swept away.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FWIW, it sounds like you are doing a great job on things in that your W is coming to learn what great things she would give up by pursuing the A (remnants?). And even though it is through a mask of strong feelings, your situation (among similar situations) seems to be on the high end of the spectrum in this regard</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for the encouragement. So far I haven't had anyone to give me feedback on how I'm doing other than my wife. She does that and it's mostly glowing words, which is a great encouragement too. But she's kind of light on the suggestions of what might make things better because she's not sure how she wants things to go.

I'll add more later.

I'll try to fill in some blanks here and see if it gets any suggestions.

I covered some of this before, but I'm searching my memory to see if there's anything else of substance.....
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In order to make more of a comment though, it may help to understand how your W reacted when you talked about it. Of course, we already know her actions.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">About 6 weeks ago (give or take) we were having kind of a rough week. She was kind of being distant and purposely not leaving much of a chance for us to talk one on one.
I had asked about it a few times casually, and she kind of brushed it off and said that things were fine.
I finally sat down with her and point blank asked what was up with her and we had probably the most discouraging conversation to date. She kept talking divorce and talking about it like it was a done deal and I didn't know it. I had done too much damage, she's in love with him and thought that things could possibly work out with them and on and on.
I forget exactly how the conversation progressed, but from that, I asked if things were truly over with them. She informed me that she had called him recently, but would say nothing else about it. I pressed and probably did more damage than good, and thus went our weekend.

A few days later, I got her to tell me a bit about it and from what she said it was a catch up phone call. How's it going, what's been happening etc etc. Her tone made it sound harmless and I couldn't get across to her how big a deal it really was.

I didn't make an issue of that for a while longer because I just didn't know how to go about it.
For some reason, a couple of weeks ago, I just had a gut feeling that they were still in contact. I had nothing to back it up, but it was a huge feeling.
I asked her about it in an email very pointedly, along with a couple of other topics. She answered the other two things, but left any mention of their contact out.
I reiterated in a follow-up message that I would like an answer either way. I didn't want to know because I wanted to be mad or anything like that, but I just wanted to know how things stood. The topic was still skirted.
I finally let her know that I really wanted to talk to her about it and she avoided it with everything she had. She made plans one night we would have had time to talk and went out with her sister until about 11 at night.
I finally got her cornered on night and she agreed to talk. I asked her first thing about that and she still would never answer the question. The only thing she said for sure was that there was not a physical relationship going on. So she basically told me that they were communicating regularly and she had no plans to stop.
She said that I'm doing a good job of being there for her and meeting her needs, but she still just felt that she was not in a mental state to make such a big decision (stay or leave). Nothing I say seems to make her see that she's going to have to eventually address this or it's going to be too late, one way or the other.

Anyway, that was the last conversation we had about that. Since hearing about the OM cell bill being way over the other day, it's been heavy on my mind and heart again, but we haven't had the chance to sit down and talk about it. She's not avoiding me now, we've just had a really busy week.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Perhaps in general it would be more helpful in understanding the situation if you continues to state what was said, rather than simply that something was said. For instance, your feedback to the OM’s W might have gotten some folks gears spinning.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As for this....the first time she contacted me, she asked me for a male perspective on her. What I thought of her as a person. I kind of got the idea she wanted this to use in a therapy session (they are seeing a MC together). I gave her some characteristics I saw in her, some good, some bad, and told her how I viewed those from my standpoint. I was very honest, but very formal about it.
She thanked me and told me that she thought I had hit things on the head and gave me a little more info about how she felt about things than I was really wanting, but that was OK. (this is all by email BTW)

She got back with me one day and wanted to know if we could talk on the phone. She called and we talked for a few minutes and really didn't say much. I'm very uncomfortable talking on the phone with her (always have been actually), so it was mostly silence. She wanted me to expound on a couple of things I had said in my "opinion" of her.

After that, there were a few emails with her saying that she thought that we could offer "support" to each other and be of help. Some things I replied to and some things I didn't. I said that I didn't mind being of help if I could, but that I felt there was a very fine line that had to be walked in order for things to stay proper and formal. I wanted to keep them that way because my focus is on my marriage and how to better my relationship with my wife. I didn't want anything getting in the way of that.

The only time I actually initiated contact was last week. I emailed her and asked her when a good time would be for me to bring some stuff by their house when they would not be home. She gave me a time and asked why I didn't want to come when she was there because she would like to see me. There was really no reason, I just figured it would be easier to drop the stuff and go.
I emailed the OM (first contact w/him in a couple of months for me) and asked him when I could come by with him not home. He gave me a day and I went by there the other day. So he knew I was there and my wife knew I was there.
Nothing much was said....I enjoyed being there because I got to see their 3yo son. He and I got to be good buddies over the years. We've known them since about the time he was born, so from that standpoint, I'm glad I went.
Otherwise, the only thing I got from it was more worry because of the "tidbits" of info I got, and it made me thirsty for more. Not sure if that's good or bad at this point.

That's the exchange with OMW in a nutshell. Don't know if it helps or not, but there you go.

I know it wouldn't take much at all to get more info from her, but again, I don't know if I want to open the door to that or not. I've got to weigh my options. I'd rather my wife just be honest with me, but I can't bank on that.