This post really saddened me this morning.

You are certainly a lucky man onlyhuman for your wife to commit to rebuilding your marriage after the initial betrayal.

I feel for your wife , she has shown great strength in the face of adversity.. and you repay that strength with a great weakness.

As others have said the OW is an adult, she has made her bed, its up to her to lie in it till SHE fixes it.

I can only hope for you your wife finds it within herself to forgive this second round of betrayal, and you find it within yourself to become the man you were born to be. If you can't find the honest man within you, then move on and let your wife find the happyness she so deserves.She doesnt deserve this, no-one does.

Dino.

OnlyHuman,

I read your post with a mixture of sadness and outrage. It's funny because someone started a very lively thread last week asking about WH's and why they seemed to have this need to play the knight in shining armour to OW's. And, forgive me for also be blunt, but you had an A with a GROWN woman, who actually defacated in your car? I don't know whether to pity you or to laugh at you because in a strange way, it's poetic justice. Your judgment has been horrible. I also believe your taste in women--at least THIS particular one--is highly suspect.

You "forgot" to tell your W that you kissed OW? Oh, puh-leeze!

You have a W, whom I imagine has been through hell and back trying to rebuild your marriage and to trust you again. And, just like that, you threw all of that away. And, for what? A manipulative, trifling, nasty, stank, irresponsible, selfish, and immature psychowench who can't even control her bowels!

Now hear this: THE OW IS NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. SHE made a conscious decision to abandon her H and kids for her A. Evidently her other OM had enough sense to kick her trifling butt to the curb without nary a glance backward. So, why can't you? And, your comment that you only wanted her gone is so superficial considering that in the very next breath, you said that YOU would pay for her to leave. How dare you commit the time, emotions, and money that should go to support YOUR wife to this person? How DARE you?

My prayers go out to your W because she doesn't deserve this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Even though I have told myself she wasn't my responsibility, I still feel responsible that she left her husband, her kids, and came here to the same city I am in. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, nope, that is way too much for me to bear, lol. You are not responsible for her leaving in any way. You did not hold a gun to this woman's head and say "move here now or else" (or did you?). I don't think much of people leaving their kids for anyone, her husband is for her to deal with. But you can't go running to her aid everytime she wimpers "Help me, I can't survive!" <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> She should have thought of that when she moved. She found a way to leave now let her find her own way back home.
Fee Fee

You should have never put yourself in a position to be alone with this woman. If your guilt/knight in shining armor complexes are that great, take a friend or neighbor, or better yet your wife with you should you ever use poor judgement again and help this woman!!

Toomuchcoffee,
I thought I was safe now, I know I wasn't, not even after all this time, I don't want to be that person again, the lying cheat. If somebody else
had posted this, I would be all over them about no contact. I have got to stop it, I'm a normal person except when it comes to ow.

Susan,
I misunderstood you, I thought you meant something else and yes, I told my wife about the hug, when I kissed ow, I thought, whoa, we are not
going to go there.

Orchid,
my wife went to ow today, I knew she was going to, I know her, I don't know everything they talked about, my wife said she straightened ow out about some things. She took a friend with her,
I wasn't thrilled but I'm glad she didn't go alone. I know I can't make her go back home, but I did try. She said I was her first affair and that makes me feel responsible. I think I wanted to try and put everything back the way it was
before the affair and that is impossible.

loving boundries,
I think I need common sense more than luck.
I tried to call my wife so she could go with me,
my mind was made up.

Dino,
I don't know what ow is doing or going to do,
I didn't dare ask. My wife isn't acting mad,
she said she was glad to see her, I think
she had a picture in her mind that ow was some kind of godess or something.

jrt,
didn't see the post, wish now I would have.
Paybacks are hell and i'm sure I deserved it
my wife and kids didn't but I did. It was my sons car. My co-workers will never let me forget it.

Topsyturvey,
I feel like the guy that she came here with
should have at least give her the money to get home. I made it plain to her this was it.

Skyline,
when she called me she sounded as if she might
kill herself, I didn't know what to do, the other times shes called shes been mad so I just hung up.

OH change your cell, residential, and possibly your work extension number if you must to enforce NC. The less she is able to get in touch with you, the better for you and your W. Don't trust yourself that you won't succumb to her pleas, and do everything in your power to avoid her reaching you directly.

OH,

I understand that your feelings of obligation to OW, no matter how misplaced, are very real to you... but has it ever occured to you that just as it is your responsibility to regain your W's trust and rebuild your M, the same is so for OW? There is a reason she hasn't taken drastic measures to reconcile with her H or at the very least her kids.... she has you to run to whenever she gets a case of the irresponsible stupids. If you care for her... sad as I think that is... maybe you should burn her ship and remove yourself from her life, thereby putting her in position that gives her no choice but to face reality. If you're really trying to work on your M, inspire this person with your responsibility to your W, and maybe she'll get it.

I only read the first few posts before I couldn't stand it anymore, so forgive me if I've repeated anything that's already been said.

FUNNY I was just geting ready to post the KNIGHT IN SHINNING ARMOR THING .

WHAT IS THAT , If you ever feel the need , to be responsiable for someone , to save someone , to make someones pain go away and give them a kiss on the head ...... JUST go home to your W .

A women witch , you have destryed more then anyone on this palnet .

A person who has loved you unconditionally and a REAL WOMEN , not some 2 bit low life that changes men at the drop of a hat or runs to some one else cause she doesn't have enough brains in her head to grow up .

IO don't want to bash you and I think no one else does , its the point of are you serious about saving your M and are you really remorseful .

IF YOU are then the only thing you should see infront of you every day is ways to show your W you are sorry and nothing nor no one else should matter .

YOU shouldn't care if she is dead or alive , this OW is a part of your Wife's pain that is all you should be concerned with want to protect anyone let it be her .

BE YOUR WIFE's KNIGHT IN SHINNING ARMOR !!!!!!!!

SHE IS THE ONLY WOMEN IN THE WORLD WHO DESERVES IT !!!

Alright, I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a moment.

It occurs to me that this guy is *not* satan incarnate. Had his intentions been really malign, he would *not* have told his wife. He could have kept her ignorant of the entire event. He did not. He came clean

As for the kiss -- if it really is what Only Human says it is, I can't get too worked up about it. There's a kiss, and then there's a KISS. What's worth noting, of course, is that the other woman made sure to mention it. I don't sense a good intent there. Very maniuplative.

A stupid thing to do? Granted. Bad enough to see her again. Worse to take her to a hotel. A bus station to watch her buy a one-way ticket, maybe, if there *had* to be contact.

But give the guy credit. He is as he says he is, only human. He had a very human moment of weakness and stupidity.

Being the formerly wayward, I know from my own experience the feeling of responsibility for both the other person and your spouse. My other guy hinted at suicide. Luckily for me, he lives ot of state; it makes it so much easier to not see him or "come to his rescue." (also, I figured he was so vain he'd never do it anyway.)

Having hurt the person in your life that means most to you is horrible. If you as the wounding spouse are human at all, you feel it. And knowing you hurt the other person hurts too. And once you get out of the fog, damn it, you just don't want to go around hurting anyone anymore.

Was this the best way to do that? Heck, no. It wound up causing injury. A wiser person would have seen that off the bat; the rest of us stumble a bit before we figure it out.

A dumb, stupid mistake. But c'mon. He's owning up to it. He deserves that much credit.

The reason we are being hard on OH is because he needs to WAKE UP.

Granted that none of us is perfect, but because of our collective experience coupled with Dr Harley's knowledge, we are trying to help him realize how he DOES NOT HAVE ANY responsibility to this grown woman, WHO CHOSE to have an A with him. His ONLY responsibility is to his BW period.

If he already feels bad about his actions, then I say 'good' BUT it's a piss poor consolation for his BW, isn't it?

While it's easy to beleive that we are just simply criticizing him, that is not the case because we have given him our perspectives to help him see reality without rose colored glasses.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by wiegee:
<strong>Alright, I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a moment.

It occurs to me that this guy is *not* satan incarnate. Had his intentions been really malign, he would *not* have told his wife. He could have kept her ignorant of the entire event. He did not. He came clean

.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">wiegee, no one said he was satan incarnate, just a [censored]. Granted, he did come clean, but that does not erase the incredible wrong he committed. Coming clean about it is just an expectation. Shouldn't everyone be honest? Isn't that an expectation? Or should we give him an award for doing what most 5 year olds do every day?

<small>[ May 17, 2003, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

When you're so tough on a person, they're more likely to become defensive and angry and tune out whatever good you say. Think to your own past when you've felt attacked. How'd that work out for you?

There have been hurt spouses here who've done some real [censored] things, too, without as hostile a response. That approach is probably more productive in the long run.

But, as often happens, this site is dead-on great for recognizing and understanding the pain of the hurt spouse. It's only fair-to-middlin' at best at understanding the pain and struggle of the other spouse.

'Tis a pity.

I disagree, wiegee. The most memorable lessons that I ever absorbed was when someone cared enough about me to take a baseball bat to my head when I needed it. The people who don't give a damn won't tell you the truth and will only blow smoke because they don't care enough to take a risk. That is one thing I really like about this place, we don't mince words here. And I hope when I do something incredibly stupid, someone will smack some sense into me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by OnlyHuman:
<strong>

my wife went to ow today, I knew she was going to, I know her, I don't know everything they talked about, my wife said she straightened ow out about some things. She took a friend with her,
I wasn't thrilled but I'm glad she didn't go alone. I know I can't make her go back home, but I did try. She said I was her first affair and that makes me feel responsible. I think I wanted to try and put everything back the way it was
before the affair and that is impossible.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your W sounds like a gutsy lady. In other words, as someone else pointed out, a REAL WOMAN.

You do understand, don't you, that every time you answer OW's calls or respond to yet another one of her pleas for "help," you open the door to allow the enemy into your home to destroy it. As a kid, I remember watching a Dracula movie, where it was said that the only way a vampire could gain a foothold over a victim is if he is INVITED. And, what are vampires? They're bloodsuckers! And, that is exactly what your OW is, IMO. A bloodsucker and a leech, who thinks nothing twice of draining you and your family of its life blood just so long as her own selfish needs are fulfilled. Stop letting the enemy in and stop allowing her to destroy your home! She can only do what you ALLOW!

I wholeheartedly believe that you will need to change your phone nos. immediately. And, I keep hearing the word "responsibility" thrown around a bit. What I find particularly chilling is that this OW is so self-obsessed that she continues to neglect her OWN responsibility to her own family. I mean, what kind of mother is so consumed with an A that she deliberately chooses to neglect her children? And, if that isn't bad enough, it appears she has no real desire to be with her children.

I point this out to highlight the differences between the REAL WOMAN that you are committed to and the OW who is only playing at being a woman.

You posted this to get whipped up. You know it was stupid and wrong and you did it anyway. How you call your self...human-error is more appropriate... I am sorry to be harsh but I think that you need to be told by folks who are aware, aware of the hurt the pain the messing up of good living and TRUST/

WE ALL SIN. But recognize it and do all the things you said on the other post without interruption of unstable untrustworthy behavior. Acting as though you are supposed to guard some woman who is a home wrecker to your wife and to you?

Committ yourself to your wife and let go of the past mistakes. You are likely to screw up again if you don't set your own values straight.

toomuchcoffee, the lady, melodylane,jrt, 3isacrowd, and wflower,
I wanted to reply because I think it is rude not to. I know it was a [censored], stupid thing to do.
I know it sounds crazy, I was going to take my wife with me that day. She said she would have went. Ow doesn't have our home phones, she can't
come to where I work, all I had to do was hang up on her. She didn't make me do it, I have been strong for so long, and I let my wife down, again.

Wiegee,
I am glad you do understand some what my situation. Ow lived 500 miles away, I thought I
was safe, she moved here. Any other day
I wouldn't have cared, but there was something
in her voice that day, it worried me, and like you said, you don't want to hurt anyone else.
The name calling on here doesn't bother me, but
when they start accusing me of making the whole thing up, that pisses me off. Theres a lot of bs on here that put up with so much more than my wife
would ever go through and yet they think she should divorce me. Bs do things to op, op do things to bs and ws, it's all wrong.
I said it on the other board also,
we shouldn't tear each other down.
We have to learn and sometimes I learn the hard way and it might take a while. I feel like my wife
and I have come a long way.
I don't expect an award for honesty but last year, I wouldn't have said a word, to my wife
that is a good thing that I told her.
Thanks for all the replys

Print this thread and give it to your wife.
Stop making excuses.
Make a life choice.
Show your wife you are sorry.
Write out a contract to her with punitive damages.
Sign it.
Give her the contract and the print out of this thread.
I've been your wife. My husband distroyed our marriage with this behavior.
Don't make the same mistakes he did. Even his children don't respect him now.

Aly

You spent 5-6 hours talking to OW in the hotel, but you were afraid to ask what she is going to do? Would you have spent that much time if your W was with you?

Your story smells funny, which is why you are getting these responses. Grow up, own up, and make your W your priority, or let her go because no one should have to live with the abuse you've heaped on her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Ow doesn't have our home phones, she can't come to where I work, all I had to do was hang up on her. She didn't make me do it, I have been strong for so long, and I let my wife down, again.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course she didn't make you do it, you did it, BUT you made the oh so typical BIG mistake (like many a WS that recently ended his/her A) of beleiving that you could handle talking with the OP. Now that you are aware of this, are you going to risk her calling you again on your cell or mobile? or are you going to change your phone number to prevent her from calling you in the future? The answer to these questions will demonstrate your seriousness in truly ending all contact with the OW and rebuilding your M. What's it going to be OH?

You see OH, the OW already knows what she has to do to pull your emotional strings in order for you to respond to her. But if she can't get in touch with you, then she can't do this, can she?. Your marriage and personal recovery depend on no contact plain and simple.

<small>[ May 19, 2003, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

julie-hula,
I didn't mean I didn't ask ow what she was going to do, what I meant was, when my wife went to see ow I didn't dare ask my wife what ow was going to do because at first she didn't tell me.
What my wife done was take her friend, her friend
is a real estate attorney, they drew up some papers, they had ow sign them, these papers stated
all the things ow has done to our family, she has
done some weird things, like opening our mail,
stole my son's wallet, and other things I may
have or have not mentioned.
The other day when I was with ow, I asked about all these things, she told me yes, she had
done those things and many other things I didn't notice. We spent about an hour and a half getting her things from the guy that kicked her out.
I called him, asked if we could get them, ow still had a key, he didn't want her there, I explained all she wanted was her clothes. He was real defensive at first ,he knew who I was, she must have told him. I told him after we were finished I would bring him his key to where he worked, he finally agreed, we got there, she wanted to steal the guys microwave oven! We argued
over certain things she wanted to do to him to get him back, thats when I started asking questions. I took the guy his key, told him
everything was ok, she took nothing but her clothes and if he was planning on getting her back home since he brought her here in the first place.
He said she is crazy and he wanted nothing else
to do with her. I told him that was fine ,I
would get her home.

All this time I asked her questions, did you steal my sons wallet, yes, open the mail, yes,
why? because you ignored me.
I told her I should have put her out in the rain, and I should have, but I didn't.

My wife told her if she ever called us, wrote us,
done anything to us and this was in writing,
that we would prosecute and sue her. Ow signed the papers. Ow's mother wired her the money
to get home, We paid for the hotel room.

Ow had asked if I still loved her, I told her no, she asked me then why I was there and I told her I didn't know but I have moved on and she would have to as well. She said she wasn't doing anything because she still loved me but because she still hated me.

I had to be sure, had to be sure she was gone
and she is, my wife told me this, it feels so much better knowing, shes away from us. It was like impending doom with her in the same city.

Most op don't do the things she does, most ws don't do the things I do either, I'm just glad that part is finally over.