i have a friend who is a member of the church of christ. his understanding of the bible says the ladies are not suppose to speak in church. he was telling me today that it would cause problems if his future (he is single and looking) wife didn't want to go to church with him every wednesday night. he also seems to believe that the bible makes some sort of comment that men should make final decisions in a married life. can someone give me some serious insight on this subject.

Someone I read theorized that what was actually happening in the early church was that women were yowling and howling in a pentecostal manner. St. Paul was saying politely, "Please shut them up." Some fundamentalists have used it for 2,000 of blanket suppression.

It's an interesting theory, but those who want to interpret everything in the Bible as an injunction for all times will never see it with that kind of flexibility. Of course, they shouldn't be eating pork, either. Or shellfish.

<small>[ May 16, 2003, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

That is amazing that we could surmise that only the man should have final say in married life. Just exactly where do you find a woman that would tolerate such a minimized position?

The Bible has plenty of information, but on interpretation, it gets over done. Particularly on things that do not pertain to your society. In the Old Testament men had more than one wife, No? Do you think polygamy is a good idea? Remember it is against the law around here. I wonder why? Perhaps the idea was not so good and it makes life confusing. But it must have been practical for the old ways. Other ideas had to do with proper preparation of food and things not to eat. In today's society we cure food more efficiently and the old ways are simply that, old ways.

I think that if your friend wants to marry a fairly intelligent woman ...drop that notion about the man being the final say. He may get a wife to agree to it but that is just not natural. I find that idea utterly foolish!! And the phrase POJA would never be able to save such a marriage, when it does get into problems.

dean, they say there is someone for everyone. Hopefully he'll find a little lady that wishes she had grown up in colonial days, keeps his house, feeds him, gives him children and hopefully he upholds his end of things and sufficiently provides for her and his children. Believe it or not, there are women who would be comfortable with this setup. While mine is not THAT extreme, our home probably is more "conventional(?)" than most.

Dean, the story is that Paul was writing to a church where the women were loud during the services and causing interruptions. Paul wrote that they shut up during the services. I am recalling this from memory and am too lazy to do a Bible search. And, believe me, fundamentalists sure don't have a lock on biblical misinterpretation. The guilt for that goes all around.

Read Proverbs Chapter 31.

Does that sound like a wife who doesn't deal with the money?

Love in Christ,
Miss M

<small>[ May 20, 2003, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: Miss M ]</small>

a.m. martin...

Your reply just made me laugh...

Someone I read theorized that what was actually happening in the early church was that women were yowling and howling in a pentecostal manner.

St. Paul was saying politely, "Please shut them up." Some fundamentalists have used it for 2,000 of blanket suppression.

just the words yowling and howling...

I don't think I have ever yowled..and certainly not in a pentecostal manner!!!!.and certainly not in church...
dang you hear about the good old days all the time...

The truth is they probably had just given birth that morning but were still expected to attend church... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Or their chastity belts pinched them when they knelt!!!

Or there backs hurt after starting the fire, baking bread, milking the cow, beating clothes on the local rock, making sure everyone had their monthly bath, gardening turnips, and making sure their arsenic laced makeup was applied correctly,....not to mention the dealing with the lead poisioned effected husbands....

And then to be politiely told by a SAINT to please shut them up....

Sounds like a Monty Python skit...

A letter from Paul to noisy churches...
blah blah blah blah....etc...etc..
your's in Christ
Paul
p.s. please tell those women who keep howling and yowling to please shut up. nudge nudge wink wink...

give me the 1800's any day....
opium for all the ladies....and a little paragoric the for kiddies....silent bliss!!!!!!!!

ARK just goofing around here....
no disrepect meant to anyone....especially Saint Paul....and a.m. martin <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ark YOU truly are a treasure!!!!

Didn't mean to insult anyone, if I did so.

Miss M, FYI, the Orthodox (at least Russian Orthodox) don't use any instruments except the human voice, either.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ark^^:
<strong>
And then to be politiely told by a SAINT to please shut them up....

Sounds like a Monty Python skit...

A letter from Paul to noisy churches...
blah blah blah blah....etc...etc..
your's in Christ
Paul
p.s. please tell those women who keep howling and yowling to please shut up. nudge nudge wink wink...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL, Ark! It really is pretty funny, but I don't think Paul was being biased, he also was quite blunt to the men! I fear that the saints in the Bible, and Jesus for that matter, would hardly pass modern day political speech codes. They weren't ones to mince words. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ammartn

you didn't OFFEND a soul...thought your post was right on...
the picture of women yowling and howling...is all in my head... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

but I don't think Paul was being biased, he also was quite blunt to the men! I fear that the saints in the Bible, and Jesus for that matter, would hardly pass modern day political speech codes. They weren't ones to mince words.

Melody...the epitomy of political incorrectness... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ARK

Melody, I just love the reference to Monty Python! giggle

<--- a member of the Church of Christ, thank you, and I'm not about to get into a debate about what the Church of Christ recognizes and you suggest we recognize. But, your conceptions of the facts are wrong. Period.

The Bible does make a comment about the man having the final say but so many take that out of context and even more abuse it.

Look at it this way. A company is established as a partnership and each partner has 50% ownership. Someone has to make the final decision and stand accountable for decisions. Each partner may give his opinion or research information on a subject or decision, but someone has to take a leadership role. Same as in a marriage. Each partner is considered equal but final responsibility has to lie somewhere. God just helped us along the way and established that it would be wise for the man to be the leader. That's not to say that he can't delegate in fact, if he is a good leader, it will be his strong suit.

I think other posters have explained women speaking out in church.

This man obviously takes his faith seriously and only a woman who equally found her faith to be that valuable would be interested in establishing a relationship with him.

I will say this...several "couples" in my "world" have fallen prey to adultery. The ones who has a habit of regular church attendance have marriages that weathered the storm. Those who didn't have the habit of regular church attendance or no attendance at all have not recovered as well. Our faith doesn't insulate us from falling into behaviors that have dire consequences, I just think it helps us to deal with them in a different way. The Bible has much to say about adultery, the lure that would take us down difficult paths, and how to avoid it.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

Different denominations have different practices.
But we are all the body of Christ. We all belong to the Lord.

I didn't mean to sound prejudiced. It was just an observation. I did not mean to imply that any church is wrong.

Please accept my humble apologies. I am a musician and I guess no instruments in church is a hard one for me.

My humble apologies. We are all the body of Christ no matter which denomination we belong to.

Once again, I am sorry if I offended anyone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Miss M, what on earth are you apologizing for. You have not hurt anyone's feelings. I don't even see that Dean here is defending his friend's goofy idea. Everyone has a right to offer a simple opinion, no?

i know there are a few different "types" of the church of christ. the one my friend belongs to seems to be the extreme fundamentalist group. he doesn't believe in bible classes, women speaking in church, or instruments in church. he also thinks that anyone who doesn't believe the way his church believes is wrong. he is trying to incorporate this into his relationship with girlfriends. i'm not sure, but it seems that the deacons and elders of his church of christ have many people brainwashed. Good grief, do you think our Lord above would disapprove of people attending Sunday morning bible classes, ladies speaking in the pew or an organ in the church?

Every group has rules -- and many have ones that are a lot more weird and arbitrary than that.

Take a look at the link in my signature block to the site "The Marriage Bed". They discuss what responsibility of the wife and the husband. There is no way the husband 'rules'. He is to serve is wife as Christ serves the Church. Which means that he is to put his wife and her needs ahead of his own.

The male dominance thing is misinterpretation by those who only read the sentences of the Bible that suit their purpose.