BREWING A FEW THINGS UP?

Sounds very interesting!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wow....has it really been 10 days since I posted an update?!!

Well, I'll try to keep it short (ish!). WW had, as I said, planned to visit her MIL on the 28th June. That became the 29th and she duly departed with our D. I didn't perceive or make a big deal out of it, as she normally does this at this time of year - visits her MIL for a week or so. Often I would go with her, but not this time, understandably <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Anyhow, was in contact by phone several times with her and with our D, and things seemed to be going fine. However, last Wednesday or Thursday I get a call from my sister-in-law. Apparently WW, had arrived at her MIL's, dropped our D, and disappeared - to stay with 'her friend' (she named a friend of hers who has recently been diagnosed with cancer). MIL is not that stupid, but felt trapped in the middle, and our D had decided that I shouldn't know, in case 'I would be mad'. So now, as well as WW's own lies, she has basically dragged MIL and our D in her games of deception <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Anyhow, SIL called WW and asked her where she was - she admitted she was staying with OM. SIL phoned me and asked me for OM's mothers number (remember that he lives with his mother!). She then told me why. I decided to call on OM's mother myself to tell her all. I phoned first, but she was out, so I found out she would be there the following night. I called back then. OM's mother lives with 2 of her daughters and OM. OM was still in holiday house with my WW, and I know one of the daughters. I had met OM's mother once, but didn't know her well. My sister came with me to observe and be moral support for me (she also knows OM and his sister).

We called to the door and were invited in by OM's sister who was surprised to see us and obviously apprehensive as to why we were there. When I told her, she didn't want me to talk to her mother - it wasn't the right time etc. I told her that I didn't think there was any right time for something like this, but that I needed to do this. This is a woman who is (unknowingly) putting a roof over the head of OM, putting food on the table for him, doing his laundry, letting him drive her car, paying for his 'love nest' for the week etc. That, IMO, makes her involved and gives me, as a BS, the right to talk to her.

OM's sister said she felt her (other) brother (who my sister and I also know) should be there. I said fine, so she called him and then we sat around for several minutes chatting to OM's sister while waiting for him to arrive. The brother arrived and wasn't best pleased. He felt we shouldn't be there, that telling his mother would upset her for no gain to anyone. I explained why I felt I had to do it, and that it was a decision reached after 3 months of thinking, not a flippant reaction or spiteful measure. He asked us to leave (which his sister hadn't). I said that I wanted to talk to his mother and that if she wanted me to leave I would do so. At this stage my sister intervened and suggested that if now wasn't the right time or place (his words) then if he would arrange a suitable time and place, we would leave. He committed to calling me by Sunday night (this was Friday night) and we left.

WW called later that night, saying she knew what I had done, but was relatively level headed about it. We didn't talk much and I went to bed. Next day WW called me again, telling me that OM (who had high-tailed it home obviously!) had now 'told his mother everything', so there 'was no need for me to call to her'.

Last night (Sunday), I get a call from OM's brother. He told me that I 'had overstepped a line that shouldn't be crossed', that I had threatened and intimidated his sister in her own home (how???) and that she never wanted to see me again. He said that his mother had now been told everything and that she (the mother) wanted no contact with me. And further that if I wasn't a friend, his sister who was 'so upset' would have made a complaint to the police (ha ha - I wonder what that would be - Hi, I'm a drama queen and social retard, I invited these people who I know well into my home, chatted to them for ten minutes about my job plans and a course I was doing, left them with my brother and didn't see them before they left ten minutes later!!)

I replied that I didn't believe I threatened or intimidated his sister, but that if she felt that way, then he could convey my apologies for anything that was said that may have offended her. I reiterated my reasons for calling and he acknowledged that these were reasonable, but that we differed on whether there would be any positive effect for me. I said I would take on board his mother and sisters request and we left it at that.

Shortly after he called me sister and basically said the same to her. This pissed me off a lot, as I thought it unnecessary and highly insensitive in the circumstances - she was bereaved less than a month ago.

Anyhow, that is more or less the status quo. I still feel I would like to talk to OM's mother - just once, to present the truth and let her know that I am not some lunatic (despite whatever OM may have said to her).

WW is now staying with MIL (since Saturday). I don't know exactly when she is returning, but she is going away again for 4 days next Saturday. Supposedly with some work colleagues, but I have my doubts.

Am considering my options with regard to OM's mother at present, and will need to have a serious chat with WW when she returns. I feel I now need to set the ball rolling for plan B, and that means setting off on the road to legal separation. That should enable me to move to plan B, if it is necessary (and it probably will be I guess), by September or so.

Hi Salerio,

Just wanted to weigh in and say that September is too long to wait for Plan B. With this plan, timing is everything. To allow for another 2 months of cake eating, lying and manipulation by your WS is far too risky and painful for you. The confrontations have been made, the exposure, the Plan A....all to no avail. Good Luck....I am keeping up with your progress. hugs

Thanks starf*sh, I appreciate your input. Realistically, it will be September or so before I will be able to enforce NC betwen me and WW - that is just how separation works where I live.
Had an interesting conversation with WW earlier tonight - where she told me repeatedly how much she cared for me, and how she wanted me to know that. And how she understood that her actions might not show that, but that she did care. Yeah, whateer, fog-talk!

well guys...its now my birthday, and I'm as old as Jesus! 33 today. As my brother said in a card to me, I hoope the next year is 1000 times better than the last. Good luck to all on the MB site!

Saleiro ....

Today is MY birthday too .... I'm as old as Jesus' mother !!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I am 54!

eeeeeeeeeeeeek!

well, got through my birthday, and my dads birthday yesterday. Now for my sisters birthday next Monday ( a busy time of year in my house LOL !).
Lots of calls from WW over the last few days enquiring as to how I am etc. Think she might even miss me a little bit <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> She gets back tomorrow morning and then leaves on Saturday for another 4 days away - probably with OM, but not 100% sure. Can't wait to see our D, its been 10 days now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Will probably have a talk with WW tomorrow night re separation etc. I'll be interested to hear what she wants to say in any case.

I feel a strong desire to talk to OM's mother. I'm not sure that he has actually talked to her at all, or if he has, I'm sure he has given her a very sanitised version. She puts a roof over his head, food on the table for him, does his laundry and lets him drive her car. In other words enable him to live as a layabout. That makes her a person of influence in this situation. I feel that I have a right to appraise of her the facts. I have no desire to hurt her per se, or to set up some sort of ongoing dialogue or relationship (unless she wants that), just to meet her once and state my case. What she chooses to believe after that and what she does with the information will be up to her and her conscience. OM's brother and sister don't want me to talk to her (I can understand that they want to protect her), so I'm not sure how I can approach her. At the moment I am considering the following course of action.

Writing a letter outlining the facts of situation and giving contact details for WW's two sisters (one is her twin) and mother who are prepared to talk to OM's mother to confirm details. I will take this letter to her local priest and outline the situation to him. I would like to meet her once face to face, and would be happy to do it in his company - the only stipulation I would have is that OM would not be there. I would ask the priest to convey my request to her and to present her with the letter. I hope the priest will agree (I have been told by OM's brother that his mother has been told everything, so there should be no new information for her in the letter). My principal motivation in going via the priest is to establish bone fides with someone she can trust as a neutral. I know her to be very religious, so I think she will respect the priest in this situation.

Any action she decides to take to intervene (or not), will be up to her. But I will be able to look back and say that I tried all avenues to save my marriage. I have no regrets about calling to her last week - I believe I had to do it, and trying to establish a face-to-face is I believe, justifiable and necessary for me to do.

I'd appreciate any input

I've realized that this is all a process. We have to go through each step without skipping any of the important parts.

Your PLAN A has led your WS to THE FENCE just like my WS. They realize that they still CARE for you. Those are the exact words used by my WS. It's part of the script. However, although they care, they can't give up the fix from the A addiction.

So, unfortunately, the next step is PLAN B.

This works, Salerio, as long as we choose to hang in there.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY! Oh, how I would love to be 33 years old again. POOH! POOH! on you. I think you are the same age of the OW in my case. A LOT younger than me but i still LUV YA! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ July 10, 2003, 08:12 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Thanks for the support Mimi

I'm hanging in there. Doing okay today. My sister stayed with me and we had a good chat tonight. We are a good support for each other I think. Misery loves company as they say!

Am feeling quite good about the contacting the priest idea, quite a cunning plan if I say so myself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

WW rang me 4 times today to see how I was. I think she is actually scared of losing me now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> She wants to go out for dinner tomorrow night. Part of this might be guilt, as I suspect her 4 day trip on Saturday involves OM, but I'm determined to take the opportunity anyhow.

Wish me luck <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Salerio,

I think you really need to consider plan B NOW. Yes, it may take awhile for a legal separation, but you need to cut contact with your W now. She is on the fence. OM will not be able to meet her needs, and she can leave. SHe has done it before.

I belive a simple straight forward plan B letter accompanied by a request for her to leave is due NOW.

She has in fact gotten your D involved in her lies and put her in the middle. Please understand that you have done a good plan A, so it is time for plan b. Plan B needs to be done BEFORE you really want to which means you still have love left for your W. If you wait until you are sick and tired of her and her actions it will be too late and you might as well, move to divorce.

You need to understand Plan B is about preserving your love so that there is a chance for the marriage. Right, now there is little reason for her to change her behavior, and you meet all of the EN's her OM cannot. Let her live without you for awhile.

You will go through withdrawal from her, and it won't be easy, but it will put you in a much better situation with regard to rebuilding your marriage or ending it.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks JL

I am thinking along these lines too. However, I will wait and see what transpires tonight as we have dinner and probably a discussion. Our D is staying with her grandmother for another 3 days, so we will have uninterupted time to talk.
I will be outlining the process for separation and starting the ball rolling.
My hesitation in writing the plan B letter NOW, is that I have no way to enforce her leaving the house - that risks restarting the cycle we had previously of telling our D, seeing her upset, and then watching her false hopes if/when her mother returns. I won't leave the house as that puts me in a dangerous position legally, and also, with her lack of support network incurs a real risk that OM will come to our house.

Thanks for the support and encouragement though. I do appreciate it.

S.

Salerio,

Didn't you say that she had left before when you had asked her too? What has changed? I do think that her lying to you and your child, her continued affair, call for her to leave. You can set up times for her to be with your D, but set it up.

I really think she won't change until something changes. That something has to be you and your situation.

Best of luck with your getting together tonight.

God Bless,

JL

Well the dinner out didn't happen. Our D was supposed to stay with WW's mother for an extra few days, to give us some time together to talk etc. WW ended up having a major row with her mother (about the A and other things) and decided to bring D home with her.

We got a takeway and shared a bottle of wine, and the conversation and company while pleasant wasn't 'serious', i.e. didn't talk about any relationship stuff. I went out for a little bit after dinner, - she was packing for her trip away today, and we wouldn't be able to talk anyhow till our D went to bed.

When I came back I sat down to talk to her - got the usual - "I don't want to talk about that right now - we'll talk after I get back" - I've been getting that for 3 months now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

So I said, that we could talk about her plans then, but I also wanted to begin separation proceedings when she got back. Talk about hitting home <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> The waterworks started shortly after, and I was told how much she loves me and how how she always wants to be there for me, to care for me and be my friend, how she would do anything for me, how sorry she is etc. I was very calm and polite, but was fairly clinical too in pointing out that sorry isn't really relevant when she continues the hurting process that she is 'apologising' for, that doing anything doesn't obviously include giving the marriage a chance with some professional help, so isn't really 'anything' etc. I effectively gave her the plan B conditions verbally and I think I really shook her.

There was lots of affection and even some intimacy (hugs, a few kisses, rubbing my back etc).
Of course some of that might be guilt that she is running off for 5 days with OM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Overall, I feel ok. I think I have done the right thing by moving things on like this, and overall I think I handled it fairly well. I cut through the fog a bit, with no major LB-ers, and I think the first glimpse of the reality she is facing into came to her last night.

Still thinking of making contact with OM's mother as described above, to maximise the pressure from that side.

Good job Salerio.

You were able to get your points across while avoiding all love busters. You practiced radical honesty with her and she was shocked when you gave her the deal breakers for the two of you to follow. It is now in her move to decide if she is going to get serious and work on rebuilding the marriage or stop pretending and let you move on with your life. No matter what the outcome of all of this Salerio, know that you are doing the right thing for for you, your child and especially your WW.

Hi Salerio:

Does she know that you know that she is going away with OM?

Has she left yet?

How was the departure?

How are you doing?

WSes are ALIENS!

Thanks TMCM

It is funny, I was just re-reading some of my earlier posts in this thread. It is amazing what a sense of peace you can have when you just know that you have done the right thing for the right reasons - something I couldn't have done in the state I was in at that time, and something I wouldn't have been able to do without the help of this site and those on it.

Thanks Mimi for the concern.

I haven't said openly that I know she is going with OM, but there are so many holes in her story that I'm sure she suspects I know - she has admitted it to her sister in any case.

Yes, she left yesterday afternoon. I offered to drive her to the airport (nice touch I thought ha ha) but she declined repeatedly. Funny that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

The departure was interesting. She wanted to hug me a lot and there were a few kisses. There have been a few SMS messages but only one call, which our D answered - WW didn't ask to speak to me, but apparently her battery was low. One call from the airport yesterday before she left.

As to how I am - more complex. One the 'complications' around the situation, is that while my parents and brothers and sisters know what is going on, my grandmother, who is 87 and lives with them, doesn't know anything. She has often been asking about WW, as they are very fond of each other. WW has in the past berated me for telling my parents as now she can't see my grandmother - cos she will meet them too. Alien logic <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Anyhow, WW did call yesterday to see my grandmother before she left, as my parents were away for the weekend. This is the first time she has talked to her in over 2 months, so a lot of questions were beginning to be asked by my grandmother. She knows that WW was away for two weeks with her mother, including being away for my birthday, so we thought it best not to mention the current 5 day trip coming in such close proximity. The combined effect of this is that I can't spend much time at my parents house, nor can my sister come over to me for the next few days, as this would create further problems/questions for my grandmother - who in any case can't be left alone for more than an hour to two at a time. So, a little bit lonely, and trying to put on a brave face for our D, although we have done a lot of stuff and had a good time together. We might go to the zoo tomorrow as we have always enjoyed that and I can point to some of Gods creatures that are hairier than Daddy!!

S.

well had a fun few days with my D. Did a good few things together. WW returned yesterday. Quite friendly towards me, but no serious talks yet. Will push her tonight to see what her 'plans' are - if she really has any, and will re-inforce what I said before - I want to go ahead with the separation process. All without LB-ing of course.

On a childish aside - was driving WW's car last night, and happened to look in the glovebox. Found some photo negatives of a recent trip she took with him, and also a photo of him. Toyed with the idea of disposing with or doing something with the negatives but decided there was no point. Instead I took the photo and smeared the back of it with milk. Can't be seen at the moment, and won't damage the photo, but boy will that sucker smell in a few days <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Very childish I know, but it made me laugh <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Good Job on the PHOTO, Salerio!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Considering all the distortions and lies you've described re: WW and OM's family, I would bet money that OM's mom does not know about A. Or is made to think that it is not really an A. Older brother was clearly twisting things around needlessly in his attempt to dissuade you.

I really hope they all aren't playing you. I do agree that difficulties w/ mom would most likely increase Plan B effectiveness. Especially if you can distance yourself from any negative impact.

<small>[ July 18, 2003, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: est ]</small>

Thanks Guys

I am sure you are right, est, about OM's mother. I have a cunning plan in place for that, waiting for the right time to execute it. Did some other fun stuff today which will probably have pissed off OM and WW a lot. More on that tomorrow <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

S.