I'm having a rough time. After 14 months of separation, four of Plan A, five of Plan B, and six of Plan A again, the current feedback from my husband is "you've made all the changes and that's great. but in the long run, things will just go bad again.". Meanwhile, he continues what is now a long-term affair and periodically threatens to divorce (with no follow through).<P>I've been Aing it for what seems like forever and am now finding that I can't do it any more. I don't want to talk to him on the phone, I don't want to be where he's at. I have no respect for the man at all. I'm not lovebusting, but I can't seem to be cheerful and reach out anymore. It's just not in me. I actually DON'T WANT to be with him. I look at him and I feel disgust and disappointment.<P>I was in Plan B for 5 months and I really NEVER talked to him. He also NEVER saw our baby, not one time. Rarely saw our then 6 year old. I can't do that to the kids again.<P>So, where do I go? Is it time to end this nonsense and file for divorce? How do you know it's time? I feel like I've tried everything and he's done absolutely nothing to resolve the situation. I don't even think he thinks about it at all.<P>I feel very unvalued and unloved. While I know intellectually it's about him, part of me wonders what's so awful about me that he feels the need to treat me this way (with such disrespect and lack of consideration). Do I deserve this in some way? And what did our baby do to deserve this emotional and physical abandonment? Is that to get at me too? I just don't get it.<P>Maybe I'm just down tonight. I think I'm coming out of my own denial and realizing that I'm going to be getting divorced. I still don't know why. It's maddening.

I think you and my H have the exact same lines! We haven been living apart for almost 6 months now (he is living with OW). He has said the same things to me. We have a great time together and he has mentioned changes in both of us but ultimately says that it won't last...afraid to try (which I believe is secret code for "don't want to be a man and make the right choice.") Anyway, we are almost divorced and at this point, I am not sure I would take him back anyway..I have been working on me and am feeling a lot better about myself. It is amazing to wake up and realize one day that you aren't feeling as devastated as you were 6 months ago. It isn't an overnight change.. it creeps up on you slowly. Do what you can, but maybe take a few months and don't do anything..just work on yourself and see what happens. Good Luck!<P>------------------<BR>Rachel :)<P>

Dear Distressed,<BR>my heart goes out to you. I'm just beginning my journey of dealing with H's infidelity, but I have realised one VERY IMPORTANT thing. Even tho' I contributed to the breakdown of our marriage - (I didn;t devote enough of my time to him, took him for granted, gave my all to the children etc etc)<BR>he is responsible for his actions, and no- one else. Please, please please don't let him make you feel unworthy, unlovable or inadequate. You're not. We need to realise that we have all made mistakes and something that I read whilst trying to deal with all this really hit home. It was - it's not what happens to you that matters, but how you deal with it that matters. You sound as tho you have dealt with this the only way we can, with dignity and self-respect. I look at my children and realise that they value me above all else, and I can deal with anything with their unconditional love. They are helping me get through this, because I am focussing on them, instead of myself. (I leave that for when I am in bed and can have a good cry, or in the shower!!)<BR>I don't know how my story is going to end up I wish I had a crystal ball for all of us out there who are going through this. All I can say is that we understand, you're not alone and you are a worthy person.<BR>Have a good day, and try to smile.

Hi Distressed -<P>I'm sorry that you are so sad...I relate completely....<P>Yes, you are down....you know that this is his own selfish mindset with some scaredy cat and laziness thrown in!!<P>I will not give any creedence to the questioning of yourself and what you deserve blah, blah....NONSENSE, HOGWASH & POPPYCOCK!!<P>Our husbands are behaving like selfish brats....plain and simple!!! Not all betrayers do ....... but yours and mine ARE!!! <P>Those beautiful children should be the best motivator for any MAN to be a MAN!!<BR>He's doesn't want to have responsibility in the game of REAL LIFE!!! <P>WHY? Who the heck knows.....I think I am going to make a thread on this concept of being afraid that things will go back to being the same reasoning that some use for not making a move to rebuild......maybe someone will be talking to Dr H. soon and could ask him about it!!! Let's see if we get anything on it....<P>As for you...can you just keep life going day by day? Does it have to be a Plan concentration? I know that you want a solution or conclusion...some sort of movement....but if you think about it (and I have , believe me!!) what would be different with any decision that you make? I don't think anything would be....you would still be doing your daily routine. Unless you want to date or something?<P>Do you think he would ever file or is he just going along in his lalaland? Do you think that your serving D papers would shake him up? How about separation papers? <P>Just some thoughts.....<P>HUGS, STRENGTH AND PRAYERS,<P>Sheba <p>[This message has been edited by Sheba (edited November 11, 1999).]

Distressed,<P>Your post reeks of total emotional drain. You are just worn out with all of this. It has gotten you so down and back to questioning your own worth.<P>I recognize that, because I have had to fight myself to remember that I am a worthy, decent person who deserves to be loved and wanted. I have not seen one person here who doesn't DESERVE that!!<P>You are at the crossroads. You have invested a lot of time and energy and efforts to save your marriage. Is it time to quit? Only you can answer that one, friend.<P>I suggest you put this all out of your mind for a few weeks. Put off the decision making and resolve as best you can to not even think about this whole mess. Spend a few weeks indulging yourself - be nice to DISTRESSED time! I know with the littles ones that may be hard, but try to find some time for YOU.<P>When you are more rested, you can make a better decision. If you decide it's time to move on, you can be very proud of the fact that you gave it your all. If you decide to give it some more fight, you will have some renewed strength to work from.<P>Take care of DISTRESSED!!!!!<P>Roll Me Away<P>

distressed -<BR>I am sorry you are feeling so down. I really appreciated your lucid thoughts on my post tonight. I know I cannot do justice to your unique brand of clearheadedness but I will try. <P>First, I agree that one cannot plan A forever. You have been exemplary in this way and even your H agrees. <P>Second, one of your goals is to make sure your H has a relationship with his kids. You have really helped accomplish this with you extended plan A and should be very proud.<P>Third, you are truly one of those I admire most on this forum. You know you are a phenomenally caring, loving and clear-minded individual. This is all about your H at this point and his issues. Please do not get down on yourself.<P>Sheba and roll me away have some good points. Take some time out, don't decide anything for a few weeks. I do think after such a heroic effort at saving your marriage, you deserve now to pay attention to your feelings. I also believe that those of us who put forth almost superhuman effort to save the relationship tend to set our feelings aside - until it becomes clear that they must be listened to. Really spend some time listening to yourself and paying attention to your feelings distressed. You know we will support you whatever you decide.<P>Hugs,<BR>Starpony

Distressed,<P>I understand what you mean about going to get divorced yet not knowing why. It makes no sense. My H has told our kids that he and I don't get along - but he is the only one who thinks that is the case. It is so confusing for the kids because they thought we never argued more than "a medium amount", even after the affair began. <P>I am still in Plan A (9 months now), and most of the time I do want to be with him, but every once in awhile I look at him (and there is no chance that he will be looking at me, since he makes a concerted effort not to) and don't even recognize him - and not only because the OW has talked him into growing his hair longer than shoulder length.<P>

Thanks to all for the wonderful comments and support to my self-pitying message. I don't know what was with me when I wrote it. I go through these phases, probably like everyone else.<P>Sheba, I actually did speak to Steve Harley about this comment months ago. He said that I needed to focus on giving my husband a reason to hope. I was to make him "safe and comfortable". This kind of reasoning is totally emotional, not logical. So the only counter is also emotional. So, with Steve's advice, I went for three solid months of safe and comfortable and never once brought up our relationship during that time. What have I got? He is safe and comfortable, but still uses the same verbal excuse (but I will admit that his non-verbal behavior is MUCH more positive. He is genuinely glad to be with us).<P>I think Steve's message is really based on what to do when the affair is over and they're therefore open to possibilities. While the affair is active, little matters (which is why he so often advises Plan B). I truly believe that. My husband will have a thousand nonsensical reasons to not spend one minute working on the marriage. He can't even explain it, all he can say is "it's how I feel". In a sense, I think he's incapable of it. He's not open to it because he's emotionally invested elsewhere.<P>Bonnet, you are so right. We made mistakes in the marriage, but only they are responsible for their choice to have an affair and emotionally separate. We had no part of that. It's not an assessment of our value, but sometimes it's hard to depersonalize such a complete rejection.<P>Camarinick, I've followed your story and admire your courage. You took a different path and set clear boundaries much earlier. In the process, you may have saved yourself additional months of agony by really ending it, instead of hanging on by a thread like I have done. Please keep us posted on how you're doing.<P>Sheba, they are selfish brats. It's really unfathomable to me that anyone could leave a marriage with children without making ANY EFFORT whatsoever to fix the problems. I have actually been thinking I should start to date. I have a good male friend who I hang out with alot. I sense he wants more, but who knows for sure. I haven't played the dating game in so long that I don't know how to do it. But I think it's about time to start learning.<P>Roll me away, I am the queen of the advice "don't act on your emotions. wait before making big decisions." It's great for you to reinforce that with me. I don't need to decide now. But I have been feeling this lack of desire to be with him for at least two weeks now. I don't see any let-up. I may be in Last Resort now, and I'm not acting. I'm really starting to not care about the marriage. But I will wait longer. I told myself that I wouldn't go longer than two years, but I could end it earlier if I wanted to. Right now, my biggest reason for hanging on is fear of what divorce will do to my son. He's told me directly "it will mean that dad will never come home. wait until he comes back." Pretty gut wrenching from a seven year-old. Nothing worse than removing all hope.<P>Starpony, thank you! You're right, I saved the relationship between my husband and my son and at least got him somewhat involved in the baby's life. That was a BIG accomplishment and came purely from my Plan A. I am glad you reminded me of this. Instead of wallowing in the failure, I should remember to rejoice in the extremely important success that occurred. If I had stayed with Plan B, or acted out of anger or resentment, the kids would have no relationship with their father right now.<P>OK, it's late. Gotta get back to limboville. I wonder if I'll ever get to leave that town. One of my old bosses just got divorced this year. She had been separated since 1991! Everyone joked about it. To me, it looks like a possible version of my life. I sure hope not.

Nellie:<P>You reminded me of an interesting addendum to our notes. Your husband grew his hair long and by your accounts, seems controlled and not that happy. My husband has gained about 50 pounds (from a normal weight starting point) since the first of the year. He looks horrible, wears awful old clothes, and seems to always be in a hurry (controlled). Do these guys seem happy to you? Why do they continue down this path?<P>Also, if you listened to my husband's comments, you would think our marriage was like the one in Virginia Wolf. It most certainly wasn't. It wasn't until he was having an affair, the last month we were together and right when I had given birth, that there was constant conflict. I guess he can't remember the other sixteen years and eleven months we were together.

Distressed,<BR> What is this? Do they all use the same book?<BR> What's the title? Something like:<BR> "HOW TO HAVE AN AFFAIR AND BE A SELFISH A**H*LE FOR AS LONG AS YOU CAN POSSIBLY GET AWAY WITH IT WHILE TEARING THE HEART OUT OF EVERYONE WHO TRULY LOVES YOU AND PUTTING THE LOWEST PIECE OF SCUMMY S**T ON A PEDESTAL INSTEAD OF YOUR SP" "And how to keep the guilt to a minimum by waffling all over the place" <BR> IS THIS THE BOOK THEY ALL READ??? HUH?? GOOD LUCK & PRAYERS FRANK<P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P>

Distressed,<P>No, these guys don't seem happy at all. My H seems to have forgotten our first 24.5 years together also - when he told me he wanted a divorce, he actually said he had been feeling like that for weeks, maybe months - as if that were reason enough to throw away a 24 year relationship and six children.<P>He told me shortly after he left, before I found out about the OW, that he had messed up his life so badly that he didn't think it could ever get fixed. I don't know if they think they don't deserve better, think they are unforgivable, or are frightened of losing both the OW and their wives and being alone.