I know this has been hashed through about a hundred thousand times here, but while reading responses to someone elses similar situation may help, it never seems to hit home when it happens to you.

I've posted before, but never given a full rundown of my situation.

Married 6 years this month. Have never been a good meeter of my wife's EN's. Overall, I've always been a pretty closed book. My wife tried to get inside to the "real me" for years and for whatever reason, I would never let her in. She let me know how she felt about things fairly regularly and looking back now, I don't know why I thought things would just "work out".

She says now that emotionally she left me two years ago, and should have really left at that time, seeing that things are where they are now.

About 20 months ago, she started an EA with my best friend. His wife was my wife's best friend as well. We were extremely close to this couple...went to church together, took trips together...when they moved a couple of years ago (before the affair), they bought a house about 2 miles from us so we'd be able to hang out more.

I never had a clue of what was going on. Partly because my wife was suprisingly good at leading a double life, and more so because I never really asked any questions that she would have to straight out lie about. The EA went on for about a year and became physical/sexual in the last 6 months of it.

Right about the time that part of it started, my "friend" came to me all concerned, wanting to make sure I knew what bad shape my marriage was in. He told me that my wife had been sharing our situation with his wife (which was probably true to an extent) and his wife had told him some things that had really bothered him. He wanted me to know and was giving me all this advice and this and that.
At the time, I was extremely grateful because, even though I knew these things, it did wake me up to the severity of it.....if I had only known.
From what I understand now, this occurred between the time that their relationship went from physical to sexual. I guess it was a pathetic attempt on his part to clear his concience or something.

Anyway, I did do some extreme soul-searching and made some final decisions about the being the husband I needed to be. My wife noticed all this (of course she knew about the little pow-wow we had from me and from him so she probably got 2 different stories) and knew that I was serious about turning things around.

Back in February, the guilt of it finally got the best of my wife and she told me thta she had an affair. She would not tell me with whom, and of course swore up and down that it was no one I knew.
As stunned as I was, I made my decision immediately that I wanted things to work between us regardless of what had happened.
She said that she knew she could not break things off on her own. She had tried and was unable to, or he would not let her.
She wanted me to know so she could be accountable to me and have me watching over her. Which was all well and good.

I found out who the OM was about a week and a half later by cracking into an email account. Needless to say, my life crashed down for the 2nd time in 2 weeks.
We broke off contact with this couple (one of the hardest things I've ever done) and were doing alright for a while.

My wife made contact with him again about 5 or 6 weeks later (first time I know of) and since then, things have been a roller coaster. She will not stop her contact with him. She says that there's nothing physical going on now....not sure if I should believe that or not.

Since this renewed contact, we've had the talks about how she basically blames me for what happened. She will admit that she chose to do what she did, but I pushed her into doing it.
She more or less hates me for my neglect of her in the past. She feels that she has been turned into a cold hollow person because of my actions/inactions. That she feels that we are not headed in the same direction in life (I've never been much of a high achiever or a big goal oriented person...which is changing now) and even though she knows that our marriage can work and be great because she knows how serious I am and how hard I've worked to become the husband she needs, she says she doesn't know if she wants to stay with me because she wants different things than I do. She feels that in a way she settled for me when we married and she knows she could have done better (that always stings.....) and feels that this is "her chance" to get out and start over (we have no children BTW).

We had a big discussion/argument, whatever last night and she pretty much told me that I needed to let her go so she can be on her own to make her decision. She says that she would also tell the OM that she needed time to think (don't know about that) so she can make an "objective" choice.

I diffused that bomb last night and things are on a halfway even keel today, but I know it will come up again as it has in the last several weeks.

I know alot of this is caused by her refusal to stop contact with him. She's pulled two ways and says that she loves him more than me. She has fond memories of us together and from what I gather, that's about the only thing she would miss if she left me. That and what her family and friends would think of her for walking out on me.

How do I handle this? This behavior fits all the patterns I read about, but knowing it doesn't really help much when it becomes personal.

I know I can't keep her from leaving if she decides that's what she's going to do. If that happens, do I just have to let her go? Do I take the higher path and offer to leave myself so she can stay at the house?
She is seeing a Christian MC...has been since right before the affair came out. They've worked through some personal issues and her therapist thinks it's time for them to start tackling the marriage issues. The MC has suggested that my wife get on some medication to control her emotions a bit so she won't be so up and down and that appointment is coming up this week.

I feel that she should give the medication and her therapist a chance to work with these issues before she decides to leave, even if it's just temporary. The thought of her on her own rips my heart out.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'm currently not really talking about this with anyone. I would love to talk to my pastor about it, but my wife doesn't really want me to bring up certain "topics" with people we deal with on a regular basis....and I can't afford two therapy sessions per week.

Guess I'm just looking for some confirmation of what I should do. Thanks for reading.

<small>[ May 19, 2003, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: high_road ]</small>

HR,

I guess my recommendation is to hang in there and let her make the moves. You cannot decide for her nor can you control her.

I would like to comment on one thing. You may have not been an award winning husband to your W, but what did her "best friend" do to her to deserve being cheated on by your W? What was your "best friends" excuse for cheating on his W? Further, does this woman knows that her H and your W are having an affair? They are still having an affair if they are still commmunicating.

Frankly, your W made the decision to have the affair. Your W is the one that broke her vows and cheated. Your W will regret it if she marries this man if you two divorce.

My advice is work on yourself, but realize "there is no pancake so flat that it doesn't have two sides." Your W and your "best friend" made the decision to deceive and cheat on you, and his W. No amount of blame shifting changes these FACTS.

So go slow, work on yourself, and see where this goes. You might be surprised.

God Bless,

JL

high_road,

wow,
except for the best friend part our situations are very similar. How you described yourself is exactly how I described myself.

Talk to someone. Are you going to a IC? I would reccomend not leaving the house. She wants to go I would let her, you can't really stop her anyway can you?

Does OM's wife know about the A? It is important she is aware, for her own safety.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would like to comment on one thing. You may have not been an award winning husband to your W, but what did her "best friend" do to her to deserve being cheated on by your W? What was your "best friends" excuse for cheating on his W? Further, does this woman knows that her H and your W are having an affair? They are still having an affair if they are still commmunicating.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not 100% sure I understand the first question. Are you wanting to know what the OM's wife did to deserve my wife betraying her? If so, not a thing. The other girl was a very good and loyal friend. Maybe too loyal sometimes, but nothing that would make you want to steal her husband.
As for his excuse for what he did? I really don't know it all. We have had one face to face discussion since this all came out. I found out it was him on a Friday night, and we were at church together on Sunday morning, and had a lunch planned that afternoon with another couple at the 3rd couples house. I didn't want to cancel on them because I didn't want to make up an excuse, so we went.
I didn't say anything to him, but my demeanor let him know that I new (my wife had told him that she had told me of the affair earlier that week, so he was kind of keeping his distance anyway).

That night at church, I was unable to sit in the same room with him, so I went outside to be by myself. He found me in the parking lot and wanted to talk. I was so not ready for that confrontation because I felt I hadn't had enough time to digest it all, and I wanted to be halfway prepared.
We talked for 30 minutes or so...mostly just him apologizing and telling me how much dirt he was next to me (which just made me more angry than I was already).
As for an excuse, he said something about having realized that he never really loved his wife in the first place. He thought he did, but that he never knew real love until his son was born, and he had nowhere near the feelings for his wife that he did for his child, so he knew then that he didn't really love her after all.
I don't know why he was trying to give me an explanation at all.

Anyway, he told his wife about it a day or so after that since she was going to have to be told something to explain our sudden lack of friendship. It's not an every day thing when your two best friends just up and cut off all contact with you.
They left the church right after that and I haven't seen him since. We've emailed a couple of times, but that's it.

I've been in contact with his wife a few times and he's in the same fog that my wife is. He seems worse though because he refused to even talk about things with his wife. My wife will talk to me and I feel that she's been honest when I've asked her questions. His wife is still in the dark about most of what went on. He's got a "drop it" attitude towards discussions about it.

I don't think that his wife knows that things are still going on between them (and yes, I know that even emails or phone calls between my wife and him means the affair is still going on). She told me that she saw that his cell bill was $30 more last month than it should have been, and she thinks that he's moved on from my wife and found someone else. I should probably tell her what's going on, but I'm trying to be very careful of talking to her. I had another mile-long post about that situation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Frankly, your W made the decision to have the affair. Your W is the one that broke her vows and cheated.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I know that. And I know that deep down, she knows that too. She just chooses to blame me for most of it.
Although I know she does have a point in a way. Not that I'm accepting blame for everything. But I do know that my neglect of her in the past did create a situation that was ripe for the affair to happen.
She did break her vow to forsake all others, but there were some vows that I broke as well. It's so easy to paint the cheating spouse as the one that did the greater evil, but is that really the case?

Hi High,
( intended)

I recommend reading "Surviving An Affair" and letting your wife read it. I would also buy a copy for the OM's wife and see if she can get OM to read it after she does. She needs to know they are still in contact and she needs a better understanding of how to fix her own marriage. If the two of you can both work on the WS's at the same time with the same program it would be a big help in fixing things. BTW, I saw your post about contacting OM's W. I think getting on the same page in working with your WS's is more important than worrying about developing feelings for OM's W. You don't have to talk daily or even weekly, but she needs to know about continued contact and she needs a plan to make their M work too. Give her enough info for her to do it.

My belief is that your W is in withdrawl and will stay there a long time unless she can quit contacting him. If she starts coming out of the fog she could read that book and get something from it, if she is still deep in the fog, she will explain it all away with "we are different" statements and she won't get it yet, so be careful about letting her read it if she is not rational about things yet.

It is still early in your case, if you can stand it there may still be hope for your M. Try for NC and continue plan A, and encourage OM's W to plan A.

As far as your W blaming you for things. If there is a blame game going on, there will be no healing taking place. Acknowledge your own faults if she brings them up, but express a desire to move foreward in rebuilding your M. It really may take her time to process your past "sins" so to speak, but plan A is still the best way to go for a time.

How are you doing personally? Is she happy with the "you" she has right now?

SS

<small>[ May 19, 2003, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I recommend reading "Surviving An Affair" and letting your wife read it. I would also buy a copy for the OM's wife and see if she can get OM to read it after she does.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have read it once and have hit the high points a second time. My wife has read a good bit of it (I didn't prod her to, she picked it up herself) and can see how close the "extreme" example in the book is to how things are with us. I think it was hitting a little to close to home because she didn't finish it to my knowledge.

Last time I talked to OMsW, one of the last things I suggested was that she read it too. One thing she said that struck me was that her husband said that his current problems with their marriage have nothing to do with the affair.....and she believes that. Another situation to handle.
As for him reading it.....who knows. From the way she talks, he pretty much refuses to talk or act on anything to do with their marriage outside their MC's office. Sounds like he's doing that for appearances.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She needs to know they are still in contact and she needs a better understanding of how to fix her own marriage.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was afraid that would be suggested. I know she needs to know, and since you've read my other post, maybe you can understand how I feel about that. I've been overboard about my wife knowing when I have contact with her, but if I start collaborating with her(OMsW) about the best way for us to go forward, then I feel like I will have to stop including my wife in those exchanges. I guess I wouldn't have to, but I figure that if I send a copy of an email to my wife that informs the girl that her husband is still actively pursuing my wife, that I'm going to open up another can. I have a hard time getting past that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My belief is that your W is in withdrawl and will stay there a long time unless she can quit contacting him. If she starts coming out of the fog she could read that book and get something from it, if she is still deep in the fog, she will explain it all away with "we are different" statements and she won't get it yet, so be careful about letting her read it if she is not rational about things yet.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How is it withdrawal if she's not abstaining from the thing she's addicted to?
I would welcome some signs of true withdrawal. At least something that might tell me they actually have cut off contact.

Fog? Yeah, I'm starting to see what the deal with fog is. She cleared her mind last night about how she felt, but now things will most likely be very nice for a week or two (?), then the anger and blame will come to the surface and boil over again. It's a horrid cycle.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is still early in your case, if you can stand it there may still be hope for your M. Try for NC and continue plan A, and encourage OM's W to plan A.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, it is still early. And I do have hope. If I have nothing else, I do have hope. Tons of it.

Question....how does one try for NC when the WS is the one that makes that decision? If they're still in contact.....why would she ever agree to that.

*****************************

Funny, real-time story....while I was typing this reply, the OMsW called me. She found out from talking to some mutual friends that my wife and I were planning to eat at a certain restuarant with friends tonight. She and her husband were also planning to go there with friends tonight. She called me to verify this and to see who wanted to change their plans.
She said they would change their plans, we talked for a few minutes and we got off the phone.
A couple of minutes later, she calls back and said that her husband had left a message while she was on the phone saying that he was feeling kind of sick and didn't think he would be able to handle mexican food tonight and that he had changed their plans with their friends to go somewhere else.

Guess we both know our WS's are still talking regularly.

Gotta love it.

If anybody can answer this really quickly, I'd appreciate it....
Should I say anything about this to my wife later? I've made such an effort to keep her up to date when I talk to this other woman....I just can't see not telling her about it, but I don't want to come off as accusing her of things.
Any suggestions here?

*************************************

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How are you doing personally? Is she happy with the "you" she has right now?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think she's very happy with the changes that have occurred in me over the last 6 months or so. Hopefully that's one thing that's kept her with me. She is usually very complimentary about things she notices and is apologetic of how much hurt and pain she has caused me. Doesn't know how I can love her after all that's happened (I don't know the answer to that one sometimes)

<small>[ May 19, 2003, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: high_road ]</small>