I posted the following question last week, and it was suggested that you might have input.

I'm wondering if Plan B should be followed for a minimum period of time. I am the BS.

If WH decides to write the NC letter, agrees to terminate the relationship and total NC, and is ready to try Plan A, should he be permitted? Even if we have only been Plan B'ing for weeks rather than months?

I guess my concern is, if contact with the OW has occurred fairly recently, how can I/we be sure the addiction is over and that the fog has lifted?

Would certainly appreciate any experiences fellow MB'ers can share. I would hate to have it be a false alarm and have to start all over again on Plan B.

I don't know that he has any plans to try to reconcile, but I just wanted to be prepared.

Thanks for any and all input.

<small>[ June 07, 2003, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: ISGirl ]</small>

I'm wondering if Plan B should be followed for a minimum period of time.
Yes. You follow Plan B until you are reconciled or divorced.

If WH decides to write the NC letter, agrees to terminate the relationship and total NC, and is ready to try Plan A, should he be permitted?
The ws does not do Plan A. This is for the betrayed spouse while the ws is having an affair.

“We” don’t Plan B. The betrayed spouse does Plan B. When the ws is willing to end the affair and end all contact with the op, then discussion takes place over what needs to happen for reconciliation.

Even if we have only been Plan B'ing for weeks rather than months?

When Plan B has been done for a short time (weeks) and the ws “seems” to want to end the affair, be very watchful and be prepared for the affair to start up again (if it actually ended.)

Usually, the ws is pretty wishy-washy about everything.

Believe Chris.

Every single thing that he is saying is currently happening in my life.

Why are WSes so predictable?

Hey there.... I was just taking a quick peek and what do know, there was my namne. Ok, let me see if I can help you out.

I'm wondering if Plan B should be followed for a minimum period of time. I am the BS.

Nope. Have you read my stuff on Plan A? If not let me see if I can find it and link it for you. But basically, unlike what is commonly thought, Plan A is ALL about the WS. It's a strategy to entice them to end the A and to recommit to the marriage.

Plan B OTOH is all about YOU. Its purpose is to protect you from further pain due to the affair (or abuse or neglect) so that you don't lose entirely the feeling of love you have for your spouse. Plan B helps you preserve those feelings so that when the affair ends YOU are still willing to do what it takes to rebuild your marriage.

So there is no minimum time, because it's not about the other person, it's about protecting you, and if the need for protection is eliminated (the affair) then Plan B can end.

If WH decides to write the NC letter, agrees to terminate the relationship and total NC, and is ready to try Plan A, should he be permitted? Even if we have only been Plan B'ing for weeks rather than months?

Well, I would say there's more to it than that, although those things are a good first step. An essential first step.

It is impossible to even think about rebuilding, restoring, or recovering your marriage until the affair is over and the unfaithful partner agrees to never see or speak to the affair partner again. Those are the pre-requisites for breaking Plan B. But, on top of that, before you get back together there are other things that he needs to agree to do.

They are:

Accountability for time whereabouts and money. 24/7 (actually, you both should be doing this, there should be no way for either of you to have a secret second life of any sort)

Honesty Past, present, future, emotional, and anything else not covered by those headings.

Care agreeing to become experts at meeting each others emotional needs

Protection agreeing to elimiate the things that are painful or objectionable for either one of you in the relationship.... Love Busters

TimeCouples in good marriages need a minimum of 15 hours per week giving each other their undivided attention and meeting the needs of Conversation, Affection, Recreational Companionship, and Sexual Fulfillment.

Policy of Joint Agreement Agreeing to make all decisions in a way that both are enthusiastic about them

Those are the conditions for recovery. And make no doubt about it, recovery is probably the most difficult and the most overlooked part of the infidelity picture. Most affairs end. Most marriages don't end because of the infidelity. They end because true recovery.... addressing the conditions that led to and allowed the affair to exist are not addressed and changed.

Now, obviously, this is an awful lot to dump on your hubby all at once. I would say that if he is suggesting that he will end the affair and agree to no contact, tell him that when he does so you would be willing to talk about what else it would take to get back together. But don't let him come home before you talk to me. I'll help you through discussing those conditions with him so that you don't go through this again.

You can find my newsletters dealing with infidelity on my website www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com The May issue is about recovery, it's not posted on the site yet, but should be in the next week or so. March and April have some interesting things on the topic that you might want to look at while I'm finding time to get May up there!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Let me know what else I can do. I check in here every day or so, and I can always be found at JFO.

C

Thank you all who replied. Chris, you're absolutely right. It's hard to think of "I" when you have so many years of "we." But Plan B is, as you say, to protect me from further pain.

Cerri, thanks for everything you said as well. I just visited your site and printed off the newsletters you mentioned.

I am aware of all the things we need to do to begin the rebuilding process, should we end up there. We were, until recently, doing counseling with Jennifer Chalmers every week or two. Purchased "Surviving An Affair" and "Fall In Love, Stay In Love." Also have read everything about the concepts on this site.

I really appreciate the advice to take it one small step at a time. And believe me, I will seek your advice and counsel when (I won't say if) we get to that point.

Today is a real down day for me. Bad day at work, just a few days away from our wedding anniversary. Trying to keep my spirits up, but it is really tough. Trying to plan something for the long weekend, but it appears most everyone I know is leaving town. Well, maybe it will have to be a movie marathon weekend!

Sorry to sound so down, but, well, I am <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

This board has really been so much support and comfort to me, however, I want to thank everyone who has taken the time to talk to me. Some kind of brotherhood, sisterhood, huh?

<small>[ June 07, 2003, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: ISGirl ]</small>

Was your hubby participating with Jenn? And then what happened?

C

C,

Yes, my hubby was a participant. But now (hindsight 20/20) I realize he lied to her as well as to me. Told her that the A was over, when he was still in contact. Only time he admitted to contact was when he was caught, by me - cell phones, etc. He got to the point where he considered our sessions with Jennifer to be confrontational..."let's see how I screwed up this week."

Obviously, he fought the Jennifer sessions because he knew he was not following the program, but gave lip service to it.

Since I implemented Plan B, I have talked with Jennifer once; H has put it "on hold." Hmmmm, what does that tell me?

It's such a bad day...many tears. Feel like I might really be losing it. Only 2 weeks into Plan B. How to carry on???? This hurts more now than when I implemented Plan B. Shouldn't it be getting a little better?

<small>[ June 07, 2003, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: ISGirl ]</small>

bumping up...to Cerri

<small>[ June 07, 2003, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: ISGirl ]</small>

Thanks for being patient and persistent.... sorry it takes me so long to get back here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Yes, my hubby was a participant. But now (hindsight 20/20) I realize he lied to her as well as to me. Told her that the A was over, when he was still in contact.

Ok, well here's where couples tend to just bumble around without ever really getting to recovery. Unless and until the conditions that led to the affair (lbers, needs not being met) and the conditions that allowed it to happend (secrecy, privacy, the ability to have a secret second life) are addressed and adjusted for, you really aren't in recovery... you're in bumbling.

So, when and A ends... which almost all of them do... there are things that must happen. First of course is to end it and to send a no contact letter to the affair partner. I have the list of points that need to go in that letter if you want them. Now, this is a letter that he writes with your help, and that you take to the mailbox together... that way you know, and he knows you know, that it got sent.

Then, even though he's agreed to n/c and sent a letter asking for it, there MUST BE (did I make that emphatic enough?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) precautions put into place that make it virtually impossible for him to have future contact. This would be things like blocking her number from his cell phone, your home phone, blocking her from all email accounts. You should have info on all phone and email accounts, including passwords, and you should check those things.

In addition, he needs to be accountable for time, whereabouts, and money... 24/7. So you know, and can verify, where he is, what he's doing, and who he's doing it with... any time of any day.

Now, that will admittedly feel to him as if he's in prison, and he'll probably have a hissy and say you don't trust him. And you know what? He's right!! You don't!! For good reason. Trust is not blindly believing what someone says...that's ignorance. Trust is knowing that someone understands how you feel and having it proven to you that those feelings will be taken into account when he makes decisions. We don't just trust governments or sales people because they tell us to!! We trust those who prove themselves trustworthy, and if we're smart, we continue to be informed on what they're doing.

All of these precautions are things that you should be doing as well. Privacy really has no place in marriage. It allows partners to make decisions that are hurtful to the other. So you should be sharing and accountable for your schedule and your contact information as well. Honesty is a two way street.

Only time he admitted to contact was when he was caught, by me - cell phones, etc. He got to the point where he considered our sessions with Jennifer to be confrontational..."let's see how I screwed up this week."

I have ethical issues with coaching someone who doesn't want to be there. I think it's disrespectful and I think it does more damage than good, because they tend to just dig in their heels and refuse to do any of the work that coaching requires. Once in a while I'll talk to a spouse who won't end an affair or who isn't sure they want to commit.... and I'm always unhappy that I did so.

Since I implemented Plan B, I have talked with Jennifer once; H has put it "on hold." Hmmmm, what does that tell me?

What is Jennifer having you do? Did you send a Plan B letter?

It's such a bad day...many tears. Feel like I might really be losing it. Only 2 weeks into Plan B. How to carry on???? This hurts more now than when I implemented Plan B. Shouldn't it be getting a little better?

Are you taking any meds? You might want to talk to your family doc about anti-depressants. Plan B is to protect you, but it is lonely work. What other things are you doing to take care of you? Do you have women friends that you can do some fun things with? Make sure that you are eating right and getting enough exercise and sleep.

Hang in there, you're doing the right thing.

Hugs,

C

<small>[ May 22, 2003, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]</small>

C,

So, when and A ends... which almost all of them do... there are things that must happen. First of course is to end it and to send a no contact letter to the affair partner. I have the list of points that need to go in that letter if you want them. Now, this is a letter that he writes with your help, and that you take to the mailbox together... that way you know, and he knows you know, that it got sent.

Yes, I know you're right. At one point when he had moved out but before I initiated Plan B, he left me a note on the kitchen counter (he works from the house during the day, but we never see each other because I work outside the home). The note said he had written the NC letter but would not send it until I approved the wording. It never happened. I guess he was not truly ready to end it and send the letter. I had told him also I wanted to go with him to mail it and wanted it sent registered, return receipt.

there MUST BE (did I make that emphatic enough?? ) precautions put into place that make it virtually impossible for him to have future contact. This would be things like blocking her number from his cell phone, your home phone, blocking her from all email accounts. You should have info on all phone and email accounts, including passwords, and you should check those things.

We had actually already done that, as a result of Jennifer's counsel. I now have access to his email, to cell phone bills, etc., And even though he isn't living here, he is still leaving his bills on the counter for me to see.

Trust is not blindly believing what someone says...that's ignorance. Trust is knowing that someone understands how you feel and having it proven to you that those feelings will be taken into account when he makes decisions. We trust those who prove themselves trustworthy, and if we're smart, we continue to be informed on what they're doing.

I told him that too. He was "hurt" that I said I couldn't trust him - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

So you should be sharing and accountable for your schedule and your contact information as well. Honesty is a two way street.

Yes, and I have no problem with that; told him he could and should see anything. He's welcome to my wallet, purse, etc. I have absolutely nothing to hide.

I have ethical issues with coaching someone who doesn't want to be there. I think it's disrespectful and I think it does more damage than good, because they tend to just dig in their heels and refuse to do any of the work that coaching requires. Once in a while I'll talk to a spouse who won't end an affair or who isn't sure they want to commit.... and I'm always unhappy that I did so.

But the interesting part is that from the first day of counsel, when Jennifer asked if we were both committed to the MB plan, he said yes, and also told her and me that he had terminated the affair and that it was "history." So he wouldn't even be truthful with his counselor!

What is Jennifer having you do? Did you send a Plan B letter?

Yes, I actually gave him the Plan B letter 2 days before my last talk with Jennifer, because that was when he admitted continued contact. I told Jennifer and she told me immediately I had done the right thing.

Are you taking any meds? You might want to talk to your family doc about anti-depressants.

Yes, I am taking Zoloft.

Plan B is to protect you, but it is lonely work. What other things are you doing to take care of you? Do you have women friends that you can do some fun things with? Make sure that you are eating right and getting enough exercise and sleep.

Yes, I am trying to take care of me...sleep, exercise, food, friends. The friends part is tough. My best friend lives 2 hours away, but we managed to spend all of last weekend together and it was a wonderful break.

Thanks so much for your insight. I am truly enjoying chatting with you; you've been very helpful. And I am loving your recent newsletters on the subject of infidelity.

My H is just keeping me so confused. When we last talked, he spoke of how much he loved me, how our relationship was important, how he didn't want to throw "us" in the trash. This, on the heels of spending the weekend with the OW. I'm totally off-balance about this, but from everything I read, his behavior is totally typical.

Thanks for caring!

ISG

<small>[ June 07, 2003, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: ISGirl ]</small>

Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders and are doing all the right things. Interesting to me that he told Jenn that he was committed, and even wrote the n/c letter and yet couldn't follow through. Really highlights the addictive aspect of affairs.

Glad to hear that you like the newsletters. I hope to get May posted to the site tomorrow.... barring unforseen emergencies, kid appointments, overwhelming emails, and hubby needs... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> John had some good thoughts and lots of interesting links.

I hope that PB helps to ease your pain, and maybe wakes him up. Wanna give me some brief details of the A?

C

CERI:
I don't mean to jump in but I can't understand the concept of PLAN B easing the pain . I am in more pain than ever because, for one, I don't feel like I'm DOING anything (illusion of control) and I'm no longer in denial.

IS GIRL:
My WS, like yours, could not end his addictive A and continues to want to have contact with me, saying that he plans to end it. I've had a hard time breaking off contact with him. He seems to be using all these righteous, helpful schemes to remain involved in my life although he chose to leave to be with her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>CERI:
I don't mean to jump in but I can't understand the concept of PLAN B easing the pain . I am in more pain than ever because, for one, I don't feel like I'm DOING anything (illusion of control) and I'm no longer in denial.

IS GIRL:
My WS, like yours, could not end his addictive A and continues to want to have contact with me, saying that he plans to end it. I've had a hard time breaking off contact with him. He seems to be using all these righteous, helpful schemes to remain involved in my life although he chose to leave to be with her.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey there... jump in anytime. And if you still feel those little hijacking guilt pangs (I managed to hijack a thread for more than a year solid <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) jump on over to my thread at JFO where all hijacker wannabe's are more than welcome.

I need to take a break tonight and forcefully detach my fingers from the keyboard, so bug me again tomorrow or next week if I don't get back here. It's a good question you have.

Also, my May eNewsletter is now posted at my site, here. Let me know if you have trouble viewing it or with the links.

C

Cerri,

Glad give you the highlights (lowlights??)

Up until about Oct/Nov 2001 we had an incredibly close relationship, although not based on any of the MB concepts (I now see the faults). Each evening, since I have to go to bed early because of a long commute, he would come to bed with me and give me a backrub or rub my feet until I fell asleep. He would stay up, in bed, watching tv and either turn it off (or not) until he fell asleep.

Suddenly, he stopped this behavior. Like day and night. No tapering off. Just stopped this 3-year or more behavior. He became distant, friends notice he was preoccupied.

Now, we went thru this 10 years ago, another brief A, and we recovered, with him in IC and a job-related move that allowed us to become bonded again as a couple. Thought we were strong and connected for life.

The clues kept coming in in 2002...late nights on the computer. Instant messages he claimed were from his "hobby group," a female name that occurred in address books, etc. I questioned him, denial, denial, silly, incredible lies.

July 2003 he was out of town for about a week and he left his laptop at home. I managed to log on to his email and found emails from the OW that confirmed the PA/EA. Absolutely no doubt. He flew home for the confrontation with me. Someone he met thru his work, and according to him the A had been going on only 3 months, but based on his behavior, I believe longer.

He sought IC and stayed in it for 6 months, and even though he said he entered the IC with MC in mind, it never happened. In January, after many months of reading the MB stuff, I asked if he would consider MB. He agreed. He swore the A was over, that when he was "caught" he ended it.

Each month something would happen that would prove there was ongoing contact, at least by phone...cell phone bills, emails, calls from his home-business phone, etc. Each time we talked to Jennifer, he would swear it was. once again, history and it was terminated.

Ever since last July he has moved out, moved back, always saying he needed to "study," read the MB books, etc., excusing himself from a life with me by saying that he wasn't yet able to fully adopt the MB philosphy to the extent I had, and that he needed private time to read and absorb. Denied there was anything more going on.

Jennifer kept telling me that usually when a WS behaves this way the A is still going on. I said, "oh, no, not us." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

But found it to be true. He moved out "permanently" 4/1, and I discovered at least 2 weekends he spent with OW since then, perhaps more. 5/5. after he finally confessed (after my urging, encouraging, you-name-it) to an ongoing PA, I implemented Plan B.

He swore he still loved me, but his behavior shows he is still in addiction.

This weekend is our anniversary. Tough time, but perhaps, just perhaps, it will be tough for him too and maybe he will make some progess.

Thanks, C., for your interest and your caring.

<small>[ June 07, 2003, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: ISGirl ]</small>

If I may,
I can't understand the concept of PLAN B easing the pain . I am in more pain than ever because, for one, I don't feel like I'm DOING anything (illusion of control) and I'm no longer in denial.
In Plan B, the ws no longer is in control of hurting you. Since you are not interacting with the ws, you eliminate all the crap that goes along with contact. You don’t have to put up with any excuses from them, nor watch them leave knowing they are going to see the op and such.
The affair is not IN YOUR FACE!

It’s difficult at first while you are adjusting to no contact but it does get “easier.”

Mimi,

I agree, you're welcome to jump in anytime...anyone is; that's why we are all here.

Plan B was the hardest thing I have done, both initiating it and maintaining it. I have been tempted so many times to lure my H back, but remember the final pain of finding out he was with the OW that last time. Just got to a point where enough was enough.

From that standpoint, I am much more peaceful now. Lonely? Doggone right I am lonely and miss him (the real him, not the alien) more than you could ever imagine.

But I don't want the current H back, no way. The man I want back is a new and improved H, ready to discuss reconciliation, ready to protect me, ready to be honest and have a good, strong marriage. If he cannot deliver that, well...time to consider that if/when it happens.

If you haven't written and delivered the Plan B letter, I recommend you do it. It gives you a certain amount of strength to actually put it in writing and deliver it. The document gives your WS concrete, written information on exactly what he must do before you are willing to discuss your future. It's just a piece of paper, but it has a great amount of strength it provides.

Keep your chin up. I'm trying to.

<small>[ June 07, 2003, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: ISGirl ]</small>

IS GIRL:

I really appreciate your last post. I have renewed my conviction this morning. I really, really hate the weekends though. Everyone keeps saying keep busy but I have not found one thing that has worked for me to kill the pain. I guess that I just have to bear with it for awhile.

I decided that God has something better in store for me than this. I can't live like this any longer, longing for a man that does not want me. Also, to think that he is settling for such a trashy woman. Really, she is. He gone to such a gutter level which makes this so unbelievable to me. I have so much more to offer him in every way. SO I'M GETTING THERE. RIGHT?

I agree with you about wanting my old man back. However, my WS sounds so much more like himself lately than he has in months. Late last year, he was hostile, distant and cold to me. He has responded to my PLAN A. The problem is his continued contact with her and his decision to move out to indulge this. OH WELL! That was his choice.

I will keep in touch with you.

Mimi,

I'm glad my post helped your head a bit. I'm new to the posting part...lurked for quite a white, but decided to jump in.

New to posting, but the A is older. Discovered last July and I believe it had gone on for almost a year (H says just a few months, but I doubt it).

I had to email my H this a.m. about a minor thing. The first contact since PB day (5/5). I kept it short, sweet, factual and to the point, but signed it Love. He responded with a short email as well, and signed it Missing You and Loving You.

It is so amazing how they can continue to express their love and caring for us. Everything I read is so "cookie cutter." They all act the same way - like aliens did indeed abduct the real person and replace them. Or like they are delusional, suffering from multiple personality disorder.

I truly believe at this point their heads and emotions are so messed up that they do not know what they want. I do believe most of them continue to love us, and it's just a matter of our managing to hold on and be tough until they see the light.

I read something this morning about the similarity between the addiction to drugs and the addiction to the affair. Really makes sense.

Prayer does help enormously. The other day I was feeling terribly depressed and like my H had lost his love for me. I prayed for some type of a sign to encourage me not to give up. As I left my building for lunch, there was the sign - something that would only be meaningful to my H and me, but there nonetheless. I felt an incredible lifting of my spirits.

I agree that weekends are horrible. Yes, everyone says to stay busy. But in our case, I have very few friends that aren't "couple" friends. My best friend lives 2 hours away and I just have no one I hang out with. It was always my H and I together all weekend (go figure, huh?). So I suffer too. This will be a very long one, with three days (one of which is actually my wedding anniversary - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ).

But I have rented movies, and plan on some shopping. A few stores are having 50% off all their clearance. Movies and shopping! Sounds like a pretty OK weekend to me!

Anyway, back to serious. I think, given the motions your H is going thru, that he is really starting to suffer from the separation from you. If you can Plan B it and stick to it, making it clear you love him and the only reason you are doing it is because you love him so much, I think he may come around. Listen to everyone who says not to expect miracles overnight. That has been my hardest lesson...one I am still not accepting fully. I hope each day that this will be the day he gets in touch with me to say it's time for the NC letter and to start working on us.

Well, one hour...one day at a time.

Keep in touch, and keep your chin up. Read about the sample Plan B letters. They will help you.

ISG

<small>[ June 07, 2003, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: ISGirl ]</small>

...bumping...

To Cerri.

Details of my WH's A are above in this thread.

<small>[ June 07, 2003, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: ISGirl ]</small>

Hey there ISG... how was your weekend? Tugh to have your anniversary fall on a long holiday weekend and to have the whole country partying! I got married the first time on Valentine's Day, so there I was going through a really nasty divorce that dragged on for years and the whole world was celebrating my anniversary. It was literally years before I could go into a store and see all the hearts and flowers and stuff without getting upset!

He became distant, friends notice he was preoccupied.

So, no clues, no complaints, nothing that in retrospect you could look at and say "aha!"?

Now, we went thru this 10 years ago, another brief A, and we recovered, with him in IC and a job-related move that allowed us to become bonded again as a couple. Thought we were strong and connected for life.

Ok, but here's the thing. The affair in the past is valuable information that under certain conditions he can't be trusted. (Under certain conditions none of us can be trusted, which is why honesty and accountability are so essential).

The thing your couselor needed to do at that time was to help you see what those conditions were and to aid you im creating extraordinary precautions so that this would never happen again. Those would be things like honesty, accountability, not working away from home overnight.... you know all the things I talk about when it comes to recovery.

Recovery is certainly about restoring the marriage, but it's more than that... it's putting things into place that would make it really difficult to have another affair.

The clues kept coming in in 2002...late nights on the computer. Instant messages he claimed were from his "hobby group," a female name that occurred in address books, etc. I questioned him, denial, denial, silly, incredible lies.

So then in the future some things that would be off limits would be hobby groups, and closed address books. Even if she is a coworker, any group either of you belongs to should be either same sex or one that you attend together.

July 2003 he was out of town for about a week and he left his laptop at home. I managed to log on to his email and found emails from the OW that confirmed the PA/EA. Absolutely no doubt.

Ouch. Sorry. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />


He sought IC and stayed in it for 6 months, and even though he said he entered the IC with MC in mind, it never happened.

I think most IC's do more damage than good when it comes to saving marriages. They're not trained to be an advocate for marriage, and the concepts and actions they espouse tend to be contrary to what it takes to make a marriage work. Just as there is no "I" in TEAM, there is no "I" in COUPLE."

Did you see the articles I posted either here or at JFO about hazardolus marriage therapy? They were excellent.

Each month something would happen that would prove there was ongoing contact, at least by phone...cell phone bills, emails, calls from his home-business phone, etc. Each time we talked to Jennifer, he would swear it was. once again, history and it was terminated.

Most people are not capable of ending an affair on their own. It truly is an addiction and needs to be treated as such. That's why the necessity of all the accountability stuff. And when the first precautions you put in place don't work, you ramp them up and make them more stringent. Kind of like you do with kids.

Ever since last July he has moved out, moved back, always saying he needed to "study," read the MB books, etc., excusing himself from a life with me by saying that he wasn't yet able to fully adopt the MB philosphy to the extent I had, and that he needed private time to read and absorb. Denied there was anything more going on.

Well, as I'm sure you know, that's a crock of doo-doo to keep you dangling while he has his cake and eats it too.

Jennifer kept telling me that usually when a WS behaves this way the A is still going on. I said, "oh, no, not us."

Yeah, I got a valuable lesson on WSSpeak recently. A spouse having an affair who supposedly ended it, but had already signed a lease on a new place. Went ahead with the move saying some time alone was needed and they really wanted to date the spouse so they could recreate a better marriage.

Well, I've always found that when the one having the A wants to move out, it means the A is still on and they are trying to see the OP without getting caught.... more having one's cake and eating it too.

Anyway, this person sounded so sincere about wanting to work on the M and just needing time to re-grow it.... I believed it. Only to find out within days that the A was in full swing.

I'm tellin'ya.... it will take an awful lot to convince me that moving out of the house, needing to find oneself, needing space.... any of those things... means anything other than that the A is still going strong!

after he finally confessed (after my urging, encouraging, you-name-it) to an ongoing PA, I implemented Plan B.

Definitely the right thing to do. Did you send a PBL?

He swore he still loved me, but his behavior shows he is still in addiction.

Yes it is, and until he agrees that he needs help and to take the necessary steps to end it for real you'll just continue to be hurt by his actions.

From a distance, and having been there, I have a lot of compassion for the WS. They are lost and in pain. But I do everything I can to encourage the faithful partner to protect their love bank until that time when the straying spouse hits bottom and is willing change.

This weekend is our anniversary. Tough time, but perhaps, just perhaps, it will be tough for him too and maybe he will make some progess.

Did you hear anything?

Thanks, C., for your interest and your caring.

You're more than welcome. Sorry it takes me so long to get here some weeks....

Hugs,

C