Hi all-

While at work yetsterday, I received a call from my DS's nurse. He was complaining of an ear ache. I left work, picked him up, and brought him back to work with me. I placed a cortesy call to X and he informs me that DS woke up in the middle of the night with an ear ache. He seemed to genuinely be concerned for DS and asked me if it was okay to call him later in the day.

He called twice and talked with dS. I told him we were on the way to the doctor and askedif he wanted us to call when we finished there. He said yes.

Well we did the routine - DS has an inner ear infection. 3 prescritions to fill, and afever of 102.

So, I call X and he doesn't pick up the phone. I was suprised by this because he was so concerned an hour prior...well after a half hour, I* tried his work cell. He picked THAT one up.

When he did, it was that typical there's someone here that is more important so I will be evasive and not REALLY talk to you attitude...It was as if I were BOTHERING him with details when HE requested that I call!!!

Then I asked him if he wanted to talk to DS. I get "Is he there?" Hellooooo, where else would he be? I was so confused because just an hour ago DS was the top concern. WTF?

I'm just sad and angry. I wish that I never placed the call to him. Then he has the NERVE to ask ME to call him in the morning to let him know if DS goes to school!

Are my feelings normal? Am I being judgemental? I just felt like he was literally a different person when I was talking to him that last time. It hurt that DS meant nothing then...

I also get angry because he is still seeking custodialship of DS yet this is how it is. I handle all of the difficult things on my own and he's off having the "time of his life".

Ugh...

<small>[ May 22, 2003, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: kily ]</small>

Kily,

Sounds like a WS handbook behavior, they all act this way... immature and childish, leaving the real work at home for bs.

My ws pays child support of a minimum wage earner, he has never earned that little, and doesn't now... he is self employed and lying. He thinks I have enough $, so he doesn't need to help.

Ha.

I hope you get through the next few days. I am getting very tired of this man I loved so dearly being such a you know what.

Hugs, Honey

kily,
You have every right to be angry. He was being a jerk. Just take care of your little one. With an attitude like that I doubt you have much to worry about as far as losing custody is concerned.

Please make sure you keep a journal of all such contacts. If you begin each entry w/ date, time, and sign at the end, do not tear out pages etc. the journal can often be read in Court word for word and is considered a legal document. Take care. tew

I see it a little differently, hope you don't mind if I comment.

He called twice and talked with dS. I told him we were on the way to the doctor and asked if he wanted us to call when we finished there. He said yes.

I do the same &#8211; I have something low key going on at work, and I can concentrate on something else, so I do.

Well we did the routine - DS has an inner ear infection. 3 prescriptions to fill, and a fever of 102.

I think unless the man has been the primary care giver for a while, or unless he is more sensitive than the average man ( whatever that is) this doesn&#8217;t mean much to him. Men are trained to put on a happy face and &#8220; be a man&#8221; and it affects their thinking about everyone and every thing else. I am supposed to be sensitive and I still have to catch my self and pay attention to understand and have empathy for my children when they are sick. It is not natural for me, but it can be learned.

So, I call X and he doesn't pick up the phone. I was surprised by this because he was so concerned an hour prior...well after a half hour, I* tried his work cell. He picked THAT one up.
Then I get busy at work, an appointment comes, or I remember a deadline ( or I look at the calendar and realize I have a deadline, know what I mean?) and I go into &#8220;work&#8221; mode and everything else becomes distant and it&#8217;s like I am in a tunnel and nothing can reach me but the task at hand. My dad is retired and he comes by a couple of times a week to see me. He has commented more than once that when I am in that mode he just leaves because he knows I won&#8217;t talk to him &#8211; I say a few words but I&#8217;m not there really.

When he did, it was that typical there's someone here that is more important so I will be evasive and not REALLY talk to you attitude...It was as if I were BOTHERING him with details when HE requested that I call!!!
Yes, that&#8217;s the way I am, you describe it exactly. I can&#8217;t say it is good, or right, but I do it. &#8220;One track mind&#8221; my W says.

Then I asked him if he wanted to talk to DS. I get "Is he there?" Hellooooo, where else would he be? I was so confused because just an hour ago DS was the top concern. WTF?
When I am in that mode, it takes me a minute or two to come out of it, I have learned to leave the phone on hold and review for a minute who is calling and why, before I pick up so I don&#8217;t do what he die, but that&#8217;s exactly how I was for a long time.

I'm just sad and angry. I wish that I never placed the call to him. Then he has the NERVE to ask ME to call him in the morning to let him know if DS goes to school!
Probably he means well. It&#8217;s hard to see that any more after all the garbage he has dumped on you. And what if he doesn&#8217;t mean well? Can you afford to treat him any differently than you have been, that is, with charity and love?

Are my feelings normal?
Yes, they are. And magnified by all the other stuff you have endured.

Am I being judgmental?
Yes, you are. You will have to work through these feelings and learn to not worry about them. Really, what difference does it make how he does things? Can you change him? Perhaps over time, you can effect some change, but you know what I mean. Like I said, it doesn&#8217;t matter if he means well, or if he is doing it on purpose, you have to be the best Kily you can be, and give care and protection anyway. There is no other way to reach your goal, is there?

I just felt like he was literally a different person when I was talking to him that last time. It hurt that DS meant nothing then...
I think it is that &#8220;one track mind&#8221; man thing. I really do. And, even if it&#8217;s not&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..you get the idea?

I also get angry because he is still seeking custodialship of DS yet this is how it is. I handle all of the difficult things on my own and he's off having the "time of his life".
This part you have my permission to hold against him. He is being a &#8220;stink&#8221; on purpose about that. It doesn&#8217;t mean you have to be too, and you are not. Just keep your boundaries, collect info and you&#8217;ll win. Don&#8217;t be afraid when things are going well to ask him to quit fighting and give you custody.

As far as having the time of his life, you know he is suffering and that he is not happy. You know that because you know him better than any of us. Question is, will he &#8220;get it&#8221; and change so he can be happy?
I hope for both of you, and also DS that he does.
I do know what you meant by that statement &#8220;having the time of his life,&#8221; but if you want custody you need to continue to do most of the work, it can&#8217;t be any other way.

Note, I am not trying to say he is right in what he does, just want to help you understand what may be happening, and that it is probably not malice on his part. OK?

SS

<small>[ May 21, 2003, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Kily I don't know what type of person your X is but I would agree with SS. I too am one of those "drivers" like SS. I get the same way with the one track mind thing, people have learned to walk away until I can focus on them. Just ask my W and she will probably agree with me. I am not saying it is right that I am that way but I know what it is like. I am trying to change that part of my personality but it is difficult.

If your X is this way than that might explain some things.

How is your DS today?

Hi guys-

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. Sick kids are VERY consuming. He is much better today. The antibiotics started kicking in yesterday afternoon and he was able to take his test for his yellow belt in karate. He did excellent! He earned his belt AND a trophy. e was a ball of energy well into this morning...

Honey:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds like a WS handbook behavior, they all act this way... immature and childish, leaving the real work at home for bs </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is what I thought. I've been on the dishing out side of this and I realize that know I am on the reciepient side. I'm troubled by this because X knows how much pain it caused him and DS. I am suprised that he lowered himself to this standard based on his experiences...

tewjtm:
I anted to respond on your post but didn't get a chance to. I just wanted to point out that your SO's X might be forcing the issue of you spending time with D by yourself because she may be hoping that you will get tored of being responsible for a child that isn't yours...I know that I had these thoughts in the beginning...just foos for thought...

You're right, he's being a jerk. Yes, I'm logging hours. I hadn't considered loggin convos. too. It's a good idea because a lot of things transpire and I can't prove any of it.

still seeking:
Always the voice of reason. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I agree with much of what you say. I do however want to express that all of this transoired WELL after working hours were over. 7:00 p.m. It is interesting to see the "GUY" point of view too. Coming on this board has helped me to understand how differently the sexes really interpret things.

I understand your point and have really come to appreciate the lesson. It doesn't matter if he cares or not...it's his choices. No matter how much it hurts ME, I can't transferr my views to DS. He will figure things out when he is old enough. For now, I have to protect him as I would myself by simply saying: "honey we will elave a message."

It's a hard lesson to learn, and it's hard to accept, but once you are able to "see" it, life does get easier and more peaceful.

Thanks for your input.

STTSI-
Ditto fpr you as I said to still seeking....Thanks for the input and the support. Ds is MUCH better..thanks for asking.

and NOW, if you'll be so kind to read on...I have a few more concerns that I need some views on.

Last night after Karate, I told X that I was taking DS home with me. I explained to him that I had my second court ordered aprenting class tonight so I needed to swap nights with him. He was angry at this. I told him that he would have to deal with it. I reminded him that I have repeatedly switched nights to accomodate HIS schedule and that this is the FIRST time that I ever made the request. Needless to say, he reluctantly agreed.

On my way home from the Karate test, X called me and he was looking for a fight. He started yelling because he felt I was keeping DS from him. His main argument was that he had been traveling and that allowed MORE time for me and DS to spend together. He felt that I should give up my scheduled time to accomodate him and make the time equal. He started laying on the guilt trip on how I'm not supportive of HIS needs and how I'm being selfish in all of this...

I'm angry about his position because he doesn't see that I have gone WAY out of my way to provide some stability for DS while he's off doing what it is that he does...He's trying to make ME believe that I am denying him access to his son. I'm angry because this triggers the same pain that I've held for years where my voice and views were never considered and I felt that I didn't matter. I feel like I'm being walked on and I don't know HOW to change the situation. Any attempts that I make to set healthy boundaries always has him coming back and screaming at me.

I finally ended the conversation with: "I am in traffic in a dangerous back up and no longer wish to talk with you for mine and DS's safety. I am not being rude and I hear your needs, but I have to go. We can talk at some later time about this...I'm hanging up now."

I stayed AWAY from my cell phone for the rest of the evening. Needless to say that he left a NASTY voice mail mesasge along the lines of "Since I feel that you're keeping DS away from me, I'm calling to say goodnight."

Note: Since AM moved in he hasn't called DS once to say goodnight.

Then in the morning at 7:30 a.m. I receive another voice mail. A little more polite simply reminding me of DS's play today and to dress him nicely for the event." Again, I felt like he was treating me as if I were a child. I'm reacting here and I want to stop reacting and see what is REALLY going on so I can ACT accordingly...

Any advice you wise people?

My husband never takes the kids so I have all the responsibilities of carting them around and trying to be in 2 places at once. I also have to make all the hard decisions with him because I can't get in touch with him hardly. If I do have a problem with the kids he usually says deal with it.

kily,
I hadn't thought of that yet. If that is the case she is in trouble - lol. I think we have more stray children than pets. I admit I was initially worried if I would take to her child. Would it be natural. However, from day one she and I have gotten along. Her grandmother made a comment on mother's day that she was a little jealous that the baby clung to me and would have nothing to do w/ her. I told her to give it time as the baby is very skittish around new people.

Her daughter has peed on me, threw up on my new carpet, and I have stayed up w/ her almost all night on 2 occassions rocking her as her tummy hurt. I don't resent taking off to care for her. It is just I know FMM misses her and would like to maximize his visitation time w/ her.

Thanks for the input. I am glad your son is better. tew

Kily- Congrats to your DS on his yellow belt! I made it to brown with black stripe before I had to quit for budget reasons.

Anyway, moving on....

Quote "I do however want to express that all of this transoired WELL after working hours were over. 7:00 p.m. It is interesting to see the "GUY" point of view too. "

It doesn't matter if it is after work or not. I know I can get into that one-track-mind thing weather it is work related or not. It could be a book, a TV show or a project around home. There are many things that get me in that mood and not just work. Again, I don't know if your X is that type of personality or not. Ask my W and she will tell you what I am talking about.

Quote "I'm troubled by this because X knows how much pain it caused him and DS. I am suprised that he lowered himself to this standard based on his experiences..."

At the time did you realize how much pain you were causing? Maybe he doesn't really know how it is affecting you because he is in the "me" mindset right now.

Quote "I finally ended the conversation with: "I am in traffic in a dangerous back up and no longer wish to talk with you for mine and DS's safety. I am not being rude and I hear your needs, but I have to go. We can talk at some later time about this...I'm hanging up now."

Good for you! You do not need to enable his callous behavior. Just be polite and ask him to call back when he is able to talk calmly, say in maybe 45 minutes???

Quote "Then in the morning at 7:30 a.m. I receive another voice mail. A little more polite simply reminding me of DS's play today and to dress him nicely for the event." Again, I felt like he was treating me as if I were a child."

Is this normal behavior for him? I assume not. I have no kids so I can't give you the correct perspective, but my male thinking is: He is not trying to treat you like a child here. He is trying to care for and help parent his DS, he remembered the play and thought it a nice gesture to call and remind you. What was his tone like? Did he seem condescending? My W says that sometimes some of the things I do make her feel like a child. It is never my intention it is just the way my actions come across to her. With communication we are learning how to work through that. Could you say something like "X, I understand you care for DS and that you wnt to make sure he looks nice for the play. However, I feel hurt with the way you call to remind me about the play." And then you could go from there. Remember, make it about YOU, how YOU feel.

Quote "I'm reacting here and I want to stop reacting and see what is REALLY going on so I can ACT accordingly..."

Yes you are reacting, but you are learning to think before acting. As Stephen Covey wrote "Between stimulus and response is choice"

All-

Thanks for the input. It really helps when I am at a low.

STTSI-
Thanks. You've shed some light for me on a painful dynamic that we held in our R. Yes, X has always taken "care" of things and not given respect to my voice. Then again, I didn't see the point of view that you offered...things to think about.

I'm still struggling though with whether or not to give in on the visitation thing. It seems to me like this one of the "cake" issues where he is going to do what he wants "Travel, ignore phone calls, etc. but expects that I will accomodate him when HE is ready. Sure, I could easily give in and let him have DS, but then there are no consequences for him and he continues to have it all. In the meantime, I am left feeling as if I am the bad guy because I'm "standing in the way of him and his son".

The sad thing is that this mentality is what led to my emotional withdral in the first place. We wnet through all of this, and the bahaviors still haven't changed. I've become stronger and have learned how to sepparate his demands from what I feel is right for me...but psychologically it's still taking it's toll. I feel the constant need to give him what he wants and what am I getting in return? Nothing. I get ignored, fed guilt trips, manipulated, and lied to....

<small>[ May 23, 2003, 08:19 AM: Message edited by: kily ]</small>

Kily,
I think you have all the info you need to know what to do, and I think you even know what you need to do. You just need to organize it all so it is a little easier to see.

His main argument was that he had been traveling and that allowed MORE time for me and DS to spend together. He felt that I should give up my scheduled time to accommodate him and make the time equal. He started laying on the guilt trip on how I'm not supportive of HIS needs and how I'm being selfish in all of this...

Try something like this: &#8220;Well, all of that is true, but remember that this is your choice, not my choice. You are the one that wants to live separate lives, so you get to live with your choice. When I can accommodate you and it fits with what I need to do, I will help, but if it doesn&#8217;t fit, I will not. Remember again, it was your choice, not mine.&#8221;

I'm still struggling though with whether or not to give in on the visitation thing.
Don&#8217;t give in. Whenever he gets angry and accuses you just repeat again: &#8220; this situation is your choice, don&#8217;t try and blame me for it.&#8221; And then hang up.

It seems to me like this one of the "cake" issues where he is going to do what he wants "Travel, ignore phone calls, etc. but expects that I will accommodate him when HE is ready. Sure, I could easily give in and let him have DS, but then there are no consequences for him and he continues to have it all. In the meantime, I am left feeling as if I am the bad guy because I'm "standing in the way of him and his son".
Again, repeat the mantra: &#8220; Who is standing in the way? Isn&#8217;t it you that doesn&#8217;t want DS to have a father and mother living together? HaHa, you are so funny when you try to blame me for your choices. Now hon, don&#8217;t get me wrong, I started this, but it&#8217;s all your choices now, so don&#8217;t get on me about it.&#8221;

The sad thing is that this mentality is what led to my emotional withdral in the first place. We went through all of this, and the behaviors still haven't changed. I've become stronger and have learned how to separate his demands from what I feel is right for me...but psychologically it's still taking it's toll.
Remember we talked about this. NC if you can&#8217;t stand the pain, If you want contact it&#8217;s going to be painful because you care, and he continues to act like he doesn&#8217;t. I tend to think he does, but he&#8217;s got this pride thing going and he will have to get over it.

I feel the constant need to give him what he wants and what am I getting in return? Nothing. I get ignored, fed guilt trips, manipulated, and lied to....
Get over the need to give him what he wants. If DS wanted ice cream for every meal, would you give it to him? You know what tough love is, and that is what he needs. You don&#8217;t need to be mean, and I border on being sarcastic in my example. I bet you can find the words to say and still be nice. Review your conversations and practice what you could have said, then use those things in the future. After a while, it will come more natural to you.

Kily, you ARE DOING WELL. I know it seems otherwise, but you are doing well. You are asking the right questions, you are responding correctly. It takes all of us time to change ourselves, don&#8217;t get discouraged while you are in the middle of it. Look at your progress and I bet you realize that the demands, lies and his attempts at making you feel guilty don&#8217;t hurt quite as bad as they did even a few months ago. You see them coming now, you can handle them better. True?
True.

Give it a few more weeks, and lets see how you are &#8211; OK?

SS

<small>[ May 23, 2003, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

SS-

You make so much sense out of so much confusion.

X sent me an email and basically spelled out what he wanted for the weekend. In the email he was acting as if he were my best friend - Asking what my plans were for this weekend. etc. I figured that he was laying it on thick because he wanted me to give him what he wanted. Fortunately for me, the choice was easy... I was asked to work ALL weekend. I couldn't give in to his wants because it was NOT hepful to me. My time will be limited and I've arranged MY schedule around DS.

I felt so good being able to set a boundary without an argument!

Suprisingly, X asked to spend time with DS and me on DS's birthday (wednesday). I'll bet a million dollars that he hasn't mentioned this tidbit to his GF. I only point it out because his patterns haven't changed and I can really see them clearly. I find it comforting to know that I no longer need to accept that kind of behavior.

After Karate last night, DS wanted to come home with me. I was really suprised because he does worship his dad. Dad and I explained to him that I had to work so it wasn't really possible. I told DS with DAD standing there:

"DS, I get sad too when I have to leave you guys. When you are with daddy, I wish I could be with you guys. You need time with daddy and you will have fun with him. He misses you when you're with me too. I will see you tomorrow and if you really need to talk to me, you can callme, or I can call you. Just let me know what you would like."

He left in tears and X was looking more than frustrated. I think he's starting to see the things that I did. Maybe this limited contact thing was best for all of us. It is giving us all breathing room and I know that I am certainly gaining a lot of strength.

Got to get to work-
Thanks for reading.