hi i dont know if anyone remembers my last post i found out my h is already got the papers for d and says the only reason he hasnt done it yet is because he doesnt know how? hes to scared to go ito the court and file. d day was on nov 27th, and i believe it is only an ea,i decided after he told me d, i kinda did a plan b i didnt want to see him, i was so hurt and mad! that only lasted about a week, and i had a tremendous pain in my stomach and back, more than usual anyway, i called him late on a sat. night told him i was hurting really bad he came took me to emergency room, and they told me it was my gal blader and i would b needing surgery, he held my hand rubbed my forehead, while i was in so much pain. and h stayed here at the house with the kids while i was in, i stayed in the hospital for a week, he called me everyday if he couldnt make it to see me, took care of the kids. i was supposed to get out friday, but i had a fever that would not go away, and i just could not stop crying, for some reason i did not want to go home.
ill b back and post the rest sorry

Dear malcswife -

You're going to be OK - I don't know your story, but it sounds like your H is still very confused about what he wants - he may have said he's gotten the D papers drawn up, but if he hasn't gone through with it, its obvious he still has doubts, and it may be that the OW is pressuring him. don't give up.

I know gall bladder pain is horrendous - my H has had 2 attacks - 7 years ago - vomiting and diarrhea, and then rolling in agony on the kitchen floor, sobbing - we had to have a doctor come and give him an injection of muscle relaxant. My sister had her gall bladder out 2 years ago, and feels miles better now. Please don't give up - you feel horrible right now, but you WILL get better. You WILL get through this.

LIR

Hi malcswife,

Sorry to hear of your emergency surgery. Will you be out soon?

Your H is taking care of the house and children? Good.

Now when you get home, let him continue to do so. Your needs are more important than his right now. You need to heal physically and all the way around. Don't turn down his offers.

I forgot, how old are your children? This time with them may have been a wake up call for him, ya think?

Let us know how you are doing.

Sending you a get well cyber hug! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

L.

Malcswife,

How are you doing?

L.

<small>[ May 24, 2003, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

malcswife,
I've been thinking about you alot! Wondering how you've been. Last night I thought,next time I check in here, I'll post "where are You?"

Sorry to hear about your surgery, I hope that your recovery is quick one. Emotionally, it may take you longer, but please hang in there!

It's good that your H has stepped in, as he should. You have had a lot to handle on your own with 5 little ones. You are a strong woman, but even the strongest of us, need help once in awhile. Reach out, let others help you, and come here often, it can help too.

Take care and hope to see you feeling better soon.

Dear malcswife,

I went back and read your posts and my heart really feels for you - in my case, my H had 2 EAs (no PA), and we have had 2 years of Hell - its a long story - but it feels like things are finally improving between us - whether or not this is a "false recovery" is hard to say, but for now, I am trying to go forward in a positive way - I have learned an enormous amount coming here to MB (my H doesn't know I post here), and I recommend you keep coming here, even when you feel like giving up. My H never left, but last year, I did ask him to go - I had had enough - he stayed and got himself into counselling, then 6 months later, we had another blow-up and spent 4 months sleeping apart - there has been a lot of anger and a lot to forgive - but it is possible to come out of this still loving each other.

From what you say, it sounds to me like he is totally lost in "the fog". I know that when he says that stuff - "I don't love you as much as I used to, I love her, it has nothing to do with you," that it cuts like a knife. My H also said so many of these things to me - "my feelings for you have withered and I am only staying because I don't want to cause any upheaval to the kids...the fact that I have feelings for her and my feelings for you withering is just coincidence...trust me on this one...I'm not involved in anything illicit...I guess I am just not interested in you physically anymore..." and the worst of all..."I just want us to be friends through this..."

After I found out about EA1, I plan A'd, without ever knowing about MB, and I went on - I interfered behind the scenes and got it stopped. I thought everything was OK - unbeknowst to me, he just transferred his attention to another girl - when I found out about her, I exploded and punched him. Three months later, I asked him to leave - that was when he started trying to handle what he admitted was "his problem". then I found MB, and with their support, I have got this far, and I am in a better place than I was a year ago.

From what I have read of what you've said - I would say that

A. OW is a real Witch with a capital B - her comments that time - that sometimes kids just have to go through this kind of thing - sorta like saying "well, they'll live". Man - that kind of OW makes my skin crawl! When your man is involved with OW like this, YOU have to learn new skills - Orchid and ark have given you advice about how to deal with his "babble" - take this seriously, because that is exactly what he is doing. He has his head so far up there he is just saying anything he can think of to explain himself - but very little of it is real - you have to learn not to buy into this, and give it weight - learn to listen and call his bluffs.

OK, so he has D papers in his truck - OW probably got them for him and asked him to fill them out. I would bet money on this. If he hasn't filed yet, he doesn't want to - if he REALLY wanted out like he babbles that he does, he would have done it already - also he would be mean and nasty.

He feels guilty, and he's running away with his tail between his legs, justifying he's no good for you - I know it hurts you that he admits to wanting other women - I take the view that ALL men (even married men) want other women - I can handle the thought that my H wants other women - but he made a commitment to me, and if he wants to be with me, he needs to keep his commitment. If he wants other women, he forfeits his life with me. When he told me he wanted to be friends, I replied that I understood that was what HE wanted, but he was my husband and I was his wife, we had always been friends, but since we had pledged our lives to each other, I could never now be less than his wife. He was the one person in the world that I would not be friends with, should our marriage end. With me it was all or nothing - if we separated, I would never keep the children from him - he could see them, even share custody, I had always admired him as a father, but I would not be his friend, he would have to lose me for the rest of his life. That was how I felt about it and that was my choice to make. I know that his friends told him that I was totally unreasonable and practically unhinged for taking this view - they tried to tell him that this was evidence of my being "totally unreasonable". Because in our society today, divorce is so common that you are not supposed to split up and lose each other - divorce isn't supposed to get in the way of a great friendship, especially if you have children. I'm not saying that my way of dealing with that is right for everyone, but that was how I dealt with it - I have been through some tough and angry times with my H - he did NOT like that - he wanted everything to be his way - but I have learned that a man in the fog doesn't really know what he wants - and he is usually being torn to pieces inside by the OW's demands, by his guilt, and by the friends he gets to side with him. He thinks he's standing on his own two feet, but he's not, he's like a tree being blown in the wind.

I know this must be such a tough time for you, with your surgery, but maybe it is a blessing in disguise, it forces your H to take care of his family, and reminds him of what he is supposed to be doing in life. I know that you are very hurt right now and just trying to dodge the punches, but sometime later, after the hurt, could come the anger - it would be good for you to come here for help when you feel like you are losing your cool.

Despite everything you have said, I see reason to hope - but it will be a long haul. Lots have been through this and you can come through it, too. You are getting some great advice here from people who have been through a lot worse than I have.

I'll be praying for you.

LIR

im sorry i didnt finish my reply, and im really i am just now getting to read what you all had to say. let me finish my story.
he was here with the children ages are 16, 12, 10, and the twins are 8. so he took care of the house and them. while i had surgery and spend some time recovering, he would come and visit the day i was supposed to get out the dr said i couldnt because my fever wouldnt go down so spend a extra 2 days in, i was relieved actually cause i knew the day i came home he would leave again, and the thought of that just hurt so much, i couldnt stop crying in the hospital, one time i even pulled the curtian and had him come to me and i told i wanted to hold him he held me, and i just cried so hard, he asked me what was wrong? he rubbed my forehead kissed the top of my head, i told him iknow your going to leave wheni get out and i dont wanna have to go through that again, he started to cry. he just held me so tight and said sshhh, dont cry.
so i fianally got released, he brought me home, fed me lunch helped out with the kids, then it started getting late he was doing the laundry for me, after the kids went to bed he came in and sat on the bed by me and said is there anything else? i started to cry and said yeah, dont leave? he put his head down closed his eyes and started to cry, i tugged on his shirt and told him come here he leaned over and put his head on my lap, i put my arms around him, and told him see you know you dont want to go, you know you dont like being without me, it doesnt feel right not to b with you everyday it doesnt feel right for the day to go by and not see you or talk to you, you ffell the same about me right? he nodded his head yes and started to cry he cried so hard,i held him while his whole bodie shook and he sobbed, i said see dont leave you know you dont want to. he said ill stay and finish the wash then ill go, i asked him come lay by me while you wait, he put his head down again and tears came again, i said i know you want to, and rubbed his back. he sat there awhile and caught his breath, then he did come and lay by me, he held me i rubbed his belly we talked for hours, about everything because i hadnt seen him for a week before i got sick, pretty soon it was 1 in the morn, he told me can i just stay here tonight? i said of course i held him so tight and we fell asleep together, i wished the night would go on forever, but i didnt morning came and he left for work and after work he came and got his stuff, packed up and he layed by me for a little while held me close and told me how sorry he was, but he couldnt stay because he still didnt feel the same i told him i dont care what you say i know you love me. he told me your still my best friend, i told him i love you malc, and no one will ever love you like i do and one day you will see that and your gonna wonder why you settled for second best. we said our good byes both of us crying. i told him i love you and he said i love you too, and he left
so im stuck here wondering why this is happening? i dont think im crazy i hope someone will read this and tell me it sounds like he really does love me, that it is not just me in denial, thats why i asked for you orchid ive read some of your replies and you know alot more thani do i wanted some one to tell me he does love me, or at least it sounds like he does, and it has nothing to do with how he feels about me, i dont want to believe that our love that was alway so special to me and him is really gone? that is the hardest thing to think that he actually really might not love me! he will say it but he always has to throw in i still love you alot but not like iused to. i guess i want some to tell me its not time to give up yet, mabey i should stand back and wait but not give up yet?

malcwife, Sorry that I am not orchid!!! Sounds like your H is still very foggy!!! He does still love you, but he is confused and probably ashamed as to what he is doing but doesn't know that that is what it is that he feels!!! Will probably tell you at some point that it's nothing about you but his feelings for her!! And that he needs to be happy!!! Here is where my advice runs out as my xH had an EA, and I didn't recover my marriage. I recoverd myself and really like who I am!!!

No one ever confronted xH about his affair, he never told anyone face to face that that is why he left his wife and family. I wish that someone had confronted him and kicked him in the butt and said "Hey you can't do this to your family they love you as much as you love them" But no one did!

I did Plan A as we stayed in the same house from Jan d-day til we moved from the state in Aug. It was very hard to have him in constantly in my face and not realize how it was that he was hurting me and our family. I never did go to plan B as when we moved I came to SD and he moved on to UT with the AF. He never had to see what his life was going to be like in the beginning without us, so he never appreciated what it was that we had!! If I could go back I would have kicked him out and went to plan B immediately!

Do I think that my xH still loves me? Yes I do as I still love him, but I have gotten over it and my love is now different. Am not sure where it is that his love lies, I think that it is more a respectful type of love now!!!

I would make this suggestion to you, that you go back and read everything that there is here as fare as the basic concepts. so that you will have a good understanding of the things to come!!!

Perhaps someone should write a WS handbook for BSers so that we will know what it is coming in the next stage. If you read people's posts there are so many similiarities in the stories!!! No matter how much a WS says that there situation is unique!!! It's not.

I hope that in some way I have been able to help!!! I pray that you have a speedy recovery, you were very fortunate that your WS was there for you and the kids!!!

Take care,
Dawn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dear Malcswife,

Your H has shown his tears. This is a good sign. He packed up and left anyway.... well that is not a good sign but the reason may be.

Is he still hiding the A? Has it been exposed yet?

Regardless of where he is, you need to concentrate on your physical healing. That will rely heavily on your emotional healing so get going on working on you. Come on' practice breathing, short walks, no heavy lifting, etc. LOL!!! Remember I am NOT a doctor but what ever they are telling you to do to help you heal, keeping your spirits up is one of them, ok?

Now does he love you? Yes, sure does look like it from your post. Will he come back? Can't say. Too much fog right now.

Should you give up? Well would you if I said yes? Probably not, so I am not going to say yes. That piece Malcswife, is up to your H, not you. No one on earth knows what he he will except himself. That can be to your advantage.

Practice on how you will interact with him the 'next' time. If you push too hard, he may run away. So you already let him know you love him...... now back off on those words a bit.

There will be a time to say it laters.

take care,
L.

Dear malcswife,

I think Orchid is right on the money - she has helped me a lot, too - thanks Orchid!

From what you say, I think he DOES still love you, and it is breaking his heart to hurt you like this. He knows he is wrong and he is ashamed of himself for hurting the one who loved and trusted him. I think you did the right thing, showing him your love for him. The trouble is, none of that will be enough to stop him from continuing his affair until HE decides that it is you he wants to be with, not her. And his decision-making machinery is all clogged up with gunge right now.

As painful as this is for you, and Orchid knows all about this, it may be that you are going to have to endure him being with the other woman until she LB's so bad that he wakes up to what he has done - that is when it gets really hard, and you are going to have to learn those new skills.

He has given you some clues - he says he still loves you, but "not like before". In other words, he doesn't have those "in love" feelings anymore and he feels like he can't live without having those "in love" feelings with someone. This is what Dr Harley means when he talks about meeting ENs - go back and read up about EN's - for some reason, he has some EN's that you have not been meeting - you need to figure out what those might be, and it could be that if you approach him the right way, he might even tell you what it is he feels he was missing - the important thing is, that once you do feel you know what it is he has found with OW which he is missing with you, don't BEG! Don't beg for the chance to be able to show him that you can give him that, too. Just do it as best you can - work on YOU - work on becoming a "better" person, being the best person you know you can be, so that every time he sees you, he wonders "gee, what is happening to her?" Be someone he wants to come back to - and let him know that you are still here for him, but only on the condition that he give up, and end contact all contact with, the OW, no ifs ands or buts.

I hope that he does not move on Dv right now, but that he holds off - this will give you a chance to gather your wits about you. But like Orchid said, first things first - your physical health comes first. If he comes around to help you, I would say, let him help you, but do not beg him to stay again - you have already done that - he knows he can and should stay.

One thing that really helped me was a post, which I will try to find, which talked about not resisting what they think they want. In other words, your H right now, wants something different from what you want. As long as he thinks that you want something different from what he wants, you stand in opposition to what he wants, and he will want to get away from you. So in order to be able to come back to a place where you both want the same thing, he needs to be able to feel that you no longer stand in opposition to him. It's a little tricky, but...I handled it this way...when he said "I have lost the thread of us.." meaning he wanted out, and he wanted me to say, OK, I know you don't love me anymore, so I guess that's it, then - what I said instead was "I don't want anything that you don't want - I don't want to be in a relationship that you don't want - what I really want is for you to be happy, but let's wait and not make any decisions right now." The important thing is that he not feel that you are trying to make him come back to something that he thinks he doesn't want. So you stop resisting him - BUT if/when he does decide that YOU are the one who has what he wants, you set your boundaries and make it clear that he MUST end it with OW.

I think one of the reasons why we are still together was because the one thing I asked him for was time - I asked him to just wait and not DO anything when we were both so upset - I said we could make big decisions later. This is a way of not resisting - by asking him for time, allowing him to do nothing, it prevented him from taking steps while in "the fog" that he would be sorry for after. It also let him feel that he could have what he wanted - separation - at some time in the future, if that was what he was sure he wanted - that I would accept that. It bought me time.

It was later, after I had had time to think, that I let him know that I would not be his friend if we separated - that walking out on our marriage would mean losing me forever as a friend. I said friends didn't treat each other like that. I think that these are the things that helped me most in my situation - they helped give me the time to change myself, to grow in ways that I needed (and still need) to grow, to become once again, a person that he could fall "in love" with.

I hope this helps you. Take care of yourself.
LIR

the a has been exposed, to co workes family ow family everyone but they both denie it and say they are just friends.lunch everyday, and he drives her home everyday from work, they are coworkers. they arent trying to hid anything but i dont know mabey he thinks that that is ok, i believe that is why he wants the divorce so he can turn it into a pa.
ive tried to ask him what is it i did or didnt do to make him turn to someone else he says nothing,but i know there was something, we didnt really have much time together when this all started he was working full time and going to school at night, we saw each other about a hour a day. and as things got closer with h and ow this time was less and less. i would ask him to take a day off and we could b together or come home for lunch, but he never would he didnt want to miss lunch w ow!
what do i do now? we are kinda in a plan b but actually it is still more like plan a because even though i tell him to give me space and time he cant stay away he finds any excuse to come by or call me. sometimes he cant get throug on my cel and he doesnt like it when i dont answer. i dont know what to think should i look at these things in a posotive way?

ive read and re read all your replies,
daybreak, why did you say you wish you had done a plan b? i mean as it is now i tried that and i know when he doesnt see me he is misserable, i try to keep contact only when we have something to do with the kids, he doesnt like it. and he doesnt like not being able to come to the house whenever he wants, and like your situation no one will say anything to him, a few people tried, but no one from his family will say anything they let him go on his mom is scared to say anything because she doesnt want to loose him, his dad is so angry with him, but still says he will just yell at him if he tried to talk to him, no one wants to hurt him, no one wants to scare him away. people see him w ow at lunch or droping her off at her houe after work but they say nothing and these are all family members, friends. i finally went to their co workers and told them he was divorcing me, for her! i ask then to please stop letting them do this right in front of you, please say something dont let either of them get away with it, let them know its wrong!

and orchid, i asked him to return back to the agreement we had before i got sick wich was he take the kids on friday and sunday evenings, and he give us money everypay day via mil, so i dont have to see him, and b hurt by knowing he doesnt want me anymore, even though or marriage had no major flaws. i told him that being with him hurts me because i know our marriage is fine and we could make it work, if it wasnt for ow. but he tells me he would still have left even if she wasnt there, i really dont believe this at all! when i told im that is how i wanted things to b, he started to cry i asked is that what you want? he said no! he did stay away for a few days, we saw each other at t ball games w son. and then friday night he called me at 1 in the morning,he just asked what was i doing? he chated for awhile about his day, he told me he was parked outside, he wanted me to come out, i told him i dont just want to b your ho! he said he didnt think of me like that, so i gave in and went out, he put his arm around me and kissed me, he asked vey quietly, come back with me? i asked him why? he said i dont know how to explain it i said try, he said i just miss it i said what? me? you miss being with me? he said yeah. so i went with him back to his appartment and i was with him, and we talked and shared secrets. i wondered if he would do it again or if it was just a one time thing, but last night he called again, same thing we talkedfor awhile on the phone then he asked me again this time he came to the house,i try not to think too much of anything, but it does give me something its not really hope its more like we have a secret between us, something only he and i know about. i know he wont tell ow and i like knowing that! i just wondered, i know he will call again, do i continue on like this being intimate with him? we share aloy of things when we are together like that, we talk about everything, but no d talk, no talk of ow, we are just together like nothing else matters, and i like the time we share, like i said it makes me feel conected to himagain knowing e still have that. do you think it is a good idea? i just take it as it is and nothing else,we both have that need and still look to each other to fill it.
also i gave him a special key when he leftin november it is colored and has flames on it, it is to the house i told him it was for him only so he knew he would always b able to come home when he was ready, he took it but he never put it on his keyring he actually just had it in his tool box at work, he nevr used it, i always had to let him in, but last night when he was here i looked at his keys and there it was on his key ring!i dont know why but it made me feel good to see it on there, and it made me feel even better because i know ow will see it on there too! its very noticable. anyway i would like to here what everybody thinks about my situation please, i look forward to all responses they all help alot!
malcswife <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by malcswife:
<strong>when we are together like that, we talk about everything, but no d talk, no talk of ow, we are just together like nothing else matters, and i like the time we share(</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Malc's - FWIW, I think these are all good things, but be careful not to push too much at this point.

The fact that he's now sneaking around behind ow's back to be with you, to see you, to share intimate times with you is a GOOD thing!!

But don't "blow it" by begging, pleading for him to come home. Number 1, you don't want him home if he's not totally D-O-N-E with her. Until he's ready to make a complete split from her, total NC, then he's definitely NOT READY to work on repairing the M....Number 2, he's got to see for himself what he's missing out on, what he will be giving up if he continues w/ow. By you being "available" to him, and Plan A'ing the whole time, it gives him lots to think about when he's away from you.

It's possible he comes over to get "comfort" from you when she's LB'ing!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Wouldn't that be a hoot to find out?!?!?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Stay the course, dear sister. I think your poor WH is about to "crack." Keep Plan A'ing him, keep it "light" - no R talks, NO begging, no pleading, no arguing or bargaining, or TELLING HIM THAT HE REALLY WANTS TO COME HOME......

He's closer to figuring it out than I think you realize.

Good luck, and God Bless,

lupolady,
i liked what you had to say especially the part about him coming over for comfort because the first night he came and picked me up he started telling me how ow had done something at work that he didnt like, it was the bosses last day the were serving lunch in her honor, and the boss also happens to b a close family friend, ow did not want to stay for the lunch because she does not get along with the boss, and this is also there time together, h and ow, but he told me she wouldnt stay and he didnt like it that she was being selfish, he said he just told her you can go and b mean but im going to stay for lunch its her last day you shouldnt b acting like that even though you dont get along! i must say it made me feel really good that she actually did something wrong!
iam going to follow your advice and do my best not to push and always try to b posotive i know thats all i can do, is just sit back and wait for ow to blow it all her own, i really believe she will! it seems to b a slow proces but im trying to b patient, i guess he knows what i want i dont have to keep telling him right?
one more thing, i have been getting asked out by other men, i of course would not go out while iam still married and cant even imagine going out after i was divorced!!! but how do i handle it w h? i did tell him about this one guy last night when we were together, and he responded by pulling me closer to him and holding me tighter, that was all he didnt say anything. what do you think? anybody? orchid i still would like to hear from you? not that i dont appreciate all other responses, im so gratefull for all of you!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />