I've been posting in Just Found Out but I guess it's time to move over here as it's now been 3 weeks since my life turned upside down.

My Story
Me BH 37 1 prev M age 17-19 Her WW 35 1st M
M 13years lived together about 3yrs b4 M
sons 15,13 daughters 12,11 she was 2months preg when we got together. I'm raising him as my own, he thinks he is mine.

1/20/03 Wife and I move back to my hometown to find work as I lost my job in Sep and we are out of money.

1/27/03 We both get work 4pm to 1am. This is the first time in our M she has had to work outside home. We can hardly wait to be able to bid 1st shift. We miss kids.

3/10 I get job 8am to 8pm more money but is on commision wife unsure, considerers it "iffy pay." She trying to bid days.

5/1 Wife informs me she likes her job and people she works with is going to stay on 2nd.

5/3 Wife informs me she is no longer in love with me and wants a divorce. She is going to move into another bedroom but stay in the house for the kids. She says there is no OM and she doesn't want to be in love with anyone. She just wants to find a companion "You know just a best friend that you can talk to ,spend time with, and have sex every once in a while." I'm to be allowed to bring woman home but she will never bring anyone home.

I'm at a total loss but convince her to stay in our room ,I won't touch her, and as she will never bring anyone home that should be no problem. She agrees. I also pressure her to wait until taxes come back next year to file as we really can't afford a D, she agrees.

5/4 I'm feeling pretty good. She has fallen out of love with me before and even thogh she never admitted PA she admited EA and since there is no OM this time and I have 9-10 months together to fix the M I think all will work out.

I pressure her to see MC ,she doesn't want to but agrees to help me. So that if it doesn't work out I won't have to go through life wondering what I could have done dif.

That night WS and OM spend 1 1/2 hr on phone with her leaving room suddenly in parts and talking hushed. I'm getting suspicious.

5/7 and 5/8 WS and OM spend 8 hrs on phone. WS and OM work together but plant is closed due to flooding. Now I know in my heart but can't prove it. At this point I'm not sleeping well so I wake up when she comes home. Says shes working late but OT never shows on check. Definite lie.

5/10 Have MC seperate and together she agrees to think about what is said and IF there is OM to have no contact while she thinks. Right after she had somewhere to go for 3hrs. (Confirm later it was a sex date with OM

5/11 I find MB read a ton and start plan A. is also D-day, I overhear a phonecall and confirm PA. I do not confront.
5/12 I get her to fill out EN quest

5/15 Have IC with SH he wants to talk with her then me again.
5/16 WW has IC with SH then I have IC she lies, he knows it. Tells me not to expose.

5/17-18 WW spend 24 hr with girlfriend 1pm-1pm. I already knew this was planned get away for WW & OM.
WW comes home upset OM calls 1hr later. I listen he was pressureing her to move out. She didn't want to because of kids. OM did major LBing but they worked it out, talked for hours later that night.

5/22 We have IC's with SH we fill out new EN LB quest and exchange and fax to SH. Still no expose WW is assigned to take my EN and write essay answering for each Am I able Am I willing to meet this need. SH want to see this before deciding about exposing.

A little info on OM. He gets out of recovery center for cocaine/alcohol addiction 2nd week of June.Many recoverys and relapses. Three prev M. 2 of them with 1 child each.

I know this was long but wanted to whole story in 1 place. Please join me with your advice as I work my way though this.

<small>[ July 14, 2003, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: hurting12 ]</small>

I do have and have read HN/HN and SAA. SAA currently hidden from WS. SH asked WS to read HN?HN, she agreed but hasn't opened it yet.

I sure LB'ed this morning. WS happily agreed last week to wake me when she gets off on friday nights(really Sat mornings) to go have breakfast with her.

This week she would have to work Sat night too with a possibility that it would be AM instead of nights. I had told her that if she ended up working AM I would take her to work and she could call whenever she got off. I can be there in 5 min. I had a lot to do today an planned to do it on witchever shift she worked.

WS came home at 4:30 in a great mood and told me it would be AM shift. She had to be at work at 7:30 so lets go wolf down some breakfast.

While we were talking she asked what I had to do today, I began telling her and she interupted(politely, she was still in great mood) to say she would need the van dropped off.

Note: at this point we only have 1 vehicle. When I finish work I drop it off and get a ride home. This way she doesn't have to leave to take me home while she is on lunch 30min break.

I should have seen this coming and been ready, but I didn't and wasn't. I knew why she wanted the vehicle (to have time and sex with OM)and immediatly tried to tell her that I needed the vehicle and would pick her up when she called.

She instantly got mad and told me "I going to work more Sat AM's ,I getting a F***ing car." I had only 3 hrs sleep but was waking fast now. Tried to back off but blew it "Fine baby I'll bring you the van so you can take the guys back to the center." At least I didn't call OM by name.

Then as we continued breakfast I kept staring off into space and shaking my head. Did this at least twice and pissed her off both times.

I really blew it here, probably blew a whole week worth of plan A in 1 hr. Boy am I mad with myself.

<small>[ May 24, 2003, 07:50 AM: Message edited by: hurting12 ]</small>

Took WS the van. She was outside on break with OM and another freind. She had to see me but while I was parking (25 ft from her but facing other way) they all went back inside.

WS off work now for at least an hr, still not home. Guess I was right about why she needed van. LOL as if there was any doubt. Got to laugh just so I don't cry.

I know it's still early in this but someone please tell me it will get better.

Hi Hurting,

So from all this happening within a short time, what do you think you should do next? How are the children? How are you feeling?

Have you visited an MC or IC yet? What about going to the doctor to help you rest?

I am sorry all this is going on but with 4 children, there is no way this is NOT impacting them also.

L.

"So from all this happening within a short time, what do you think you should do next?"

Staying in A for now. I was a real louse on the DS and FC and they are #4 and #1 on her EN list.It has been only 3 weeks so if I "b" there is no way she will believe it is a perm change in my habits.

" How are the children?"
They are begining to act up alot. And are always trying to push us together. This makes WS upset, prob thinks I'm coaching. Also thinks that when they leave to leave us alone that means they are seeing enough of her so everything is ok.

"How are you feeling?"
I don't know from day to day. 1 day mad as heck, next happy cause I know their A can't last, next sad as heck from being alone. I really miss my wife. Almost feel I could share her it thats what it took to get half of her time where she acted like we used too. I know that won't work but thats how I feel.

"Have you visited an MC or IC yet? "
Yes I've had 3 IC with Steve WS has had 2.

"What about going to the doctor to help you rest?"
Can't afford it, borrowing massive amounts to pay for MC and to do things with her. If it works we'll pay it back together, if not I will myself.

Thanks for the reply, kinda need someone to talk to.

<small>[ May 24, 2003, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: hurting12 ]</small>

Hurting,

It maybe helpful to do some reading now. The books surviving an affair and his needs/her needs are good to read and review.

Work on you and protect you and the children. MB counseling is expensive but good. If you can't afford that, read their books and keep posting.

Your children are doing what they think is best and your W is now passing on some of her issues to them. As a parent are you going to allow her anger to be transferred to them? Also how long do you think your children want to see you get her anger? When you can take the time to talk with each individually then as a family. You and the children. Reassure them of your love and that you will not leave them.

If separation talk comes up, let your W leave. Don't listen to her babble about her needing to be at home and continue the A. That is just not right and you shouldn't have to subject you and the children to those living conditions.

Let's see, you want someone to speak with here at MB. Well my plate is a bit full right now and you are a guy..... I see that BryanP may be reading and will try to find other MBers to help.

What area are you in? If you don't mind telling it may help to know if someone posting here that can help is near your area.

take care,
L.

I have read this entire site plus SAA and HN/HN I have Fall in love Stay in love but have not started it yet.

OM almost pushed WS into leaving last week. It's not possible $$$$ but she was going to. They worked it out and she stayed. They now talking about living together when he get out of Addition center. She is resisting ,told him that is "A big step." He gets out in about 2 wks so should be ok till then at least.

Steve says if I can swing it without pushing that if she wants 1 of us out I should go. Because we work diff shifts I can still come over when WS at work and fullfill EN's FC DS and FS. I can move in with mother and thats the only way we could afford it.

A little about money here. We could get rid of some bills and free up enough money that WS doesn't even have to work. BUT, since she insisted we seperate money I have not suggested and changes ,that way WS has very little money (me too) and OM has to feel the pressure of the paying. She wants a car bad because that would give her a lot more freedom and I will match her $ for $ but that will take a while and everytime she spends money with him it is that much longer.

As I said I am borrowing money so she doesn't have to pay for anything we do together.

When I said someone to talk to I meant here on MB. Although I'm not opposed to meeting someone in my area thats going through same thing. Would need to be Male or a couple in recovery as I know otherwise we would both be ripe to fill each others EN'S and add more A's to this mess.

I live about 60 miles south of Nashville TN
Both private msg and e-mail are turned on in my profile

U r doing good. I am checking back on you inbetween my housework!!! What an excuse eh?? LOL!!!

Anyway, MB guys here are great. TN area? Hm.... can't think right off hand but I know there are some guys out that way. D_rose is in FL, WAT is in DC/MD area, H2Y is in Texas, Indy is in IN, RedHat is in CA, JustLearning is great but he is out here on the west coast. Oooh there's a lot more. If you want to e-mail any of them I believe their addy is out there in the profiles area also.

As for borrowing so your W doesn't have to spend her $$? I would not enable her in such a way. Steve is telling you to move out? Hm.... I think it is better for you to stay and W moves out.

OM is getting out of where?

Sorry for all the questions.

L.

I tink Steve thinks it's better for me to move because she prob wouldn't move him in very soon because of kids. Also due to shifts the only thing I lose is sleeping in same house as WS would be at work and I can be here the same times I am now except for my bedtime. I can also continue a better plan A with me gone than her as 3 of her top 5 would be hard to do if she leaves and moves in with OM.

Have only been in plan A for 3 weeks and I really was bad at FC and DS for most of our M. Need longer to prove it's not a temp change just to get her back.

A little info on OM. He gets out of recovery center for cocaine/alcohol addiction 2nd week of June this was a volutary 6 month program.He has had many recoveries and relapses. Three prev M. 2 of them produced 1 child each.

I see that you are trying to keep as much sense into this issue as humanely possible. This is good for you and your family. IMHO, still think it is better that she be inconvienced and NOT let the OM have the opportunity of moving into your home especially since he is coming from such a questionnable background.

Don't you think that OM is bad association for your children to be exposed to? Let's see if we can get a MB poster Spacecase to write to you. His W is having an A with someone in another state who is also in a place of confinement. Spacecase is a great poster and has helped many. He has teenage children also and would be in a much better position to help you than I. Me and my opinated thoughts can get me in trouble sometimes - LOL!!! Spacecase is in Texas. 2long is another poster and he is also out here on the west coast. Both guys are great.

What are your W's plans with this guy when he comes out? Is he financially sound?

Please pray for a calm heart and a clear mind. Sometime all BS and family desparately need at this time.

take care,
L.

No I don't think it would be good for the children to be around OM. Steve said he will work hard on children not seeing us with oposite sex for six months after D and for sure not during a seperation. It may not get there, she wants us to live in same house until she thnks kids are ready. If OM pushes 1 of us to leave it will be big LB on his part.

She plans on filing for D in may-june '04 when taxes come back. I will fight for custody and kids NC with OM at that point.

OM is not financially sound. He pays CS to 2 EW's doesn' own a car yet and has many fines to pay off. He did just get a job in maint which pays better and more OT but will never be able to provide as much to the household as I do. Of course if they don't have the kids they won't need nearly as much.

My brother just called to tell me he saw them together 1hr 10 min ago (like I didn't know). I think all visitors have to leave at 4:30 if recoveree does not have a pass so she should be home in about 50 min or so.

I will be suprising her by taking her to buy a new computer that she wants bad so we should have a good evening. We won't be alone but will have chances to make her smile and laugh.

If you want you can check out my old thread in just found out. You can see some of the problems they are already having.

Hi,

Well more 'warning signs' in your last thread will keep me posting!!! LOL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

1. OM is not sound financially - U need to make sure your W does not use family funds for their or even his benefit.

2. WS looking to D you this summer? Look into D or separation options.

3. Get RO if needed that way if your W loses her mind and brings OM around, you and the children will have the option to use police protection. Also makes your case for custody stronger.

4. Your support group is working. Slow and stead but it is working. Be grateful for it. Don't discourage them. Be thankful and let them know it.

5. Buying her a computer? Hm.... I would think before buying her anything. $$ is not a replacement for family loyalty or love. If you do and she uses the computer to pursue her A, financial purchase could be a bigger trigger for you later on down the line. So what to do? Well you could buy her something smaller and more personal.... like a locket with a picture of you and the children or something of a simlar reminder for her car, purse or office Be wise in these choices. You can use this time to put subtle reminders in front of her when you are not around.

5. REmember, if she tries to engage you in an agrument and you recognize it..... what are you going to do? Walk away or just not say anything.

take care,
L.

1. OM is not sound financially - U need to make sure your W does not use family funds for their or even his benefit.

I keep the joint account empty. I give her the amount of her direct deposit over the agreed portion of her bills

2. WS looking to D you this summer? Look into D or separation options.

No, 1 yr from now

3. Get RO if needed that way if your W loses her mind and brings OM around, you and the children will have the option to use police protection. Also makes your case for custody stronger.

4. Your support group is working. Slow and stead but it is working. Be grateful for it. Don't discourage them. Be thankful and let them know it.

I am

5. Buying her a computer? Hm.... I would think before buying her anything. $$ is not a replacement for family loyalty or love. If you do and she uses the computer to pursue her A, financial purchase could be a bigger trigger for you later on down the line. So what to do? Well you could buy her something smaller and more personal.... like a locket with a picture of you and the children or something of a simlar reminder for her car, purse or office Be wise in these choices. You can use this time to put subtle reminders in front of her when you are not around.

She don't need puter for A they work side by side and spend hrs on phone together.We already have one it is just slow and locks up a lot. I will use it when she not here so helps me too. They
5. REmember, if she tries to engage you in an agrument and you recognize it..... what are you going to do? Walk away or just not say anything.
I'm already getting her those little things.

She rarely attempts to bait me to fight. Usually I don't rise to it I just let the comment go like I never heard it.

Got a question. They had a fight last weekend because she had went bowling with me. They worked it out mainly because she lied to him. Told him we were with my brother, mother, and another woman she was trying to fix up with my brother.
I was thinking if I could get to to go again then the next time I drop off the van I could leave a trinket or somthing on her seat with a letter telling her how much I enjoyed bowling alone with her. If he sees it big LB if she won't show it to him more problems there. They almost always come to van together so he will almost assuredly see the letter wether he gets to read it or not.
What do you think?

I know 1 MB BS that left a collage of pictures of her H with her and her family taken during the times that the OW was told he was NOT with his W. She put a few notes on it like any loving W would put to her H. Hm..... then she put is on the sun visor of their SUV.... the one that he did the nasty with OW in the transit station parking lot!!!!

So you have the right idea. Make sure that you work on your reason and it must be convincing. Don't do weird stuff but normal loving things. Of course you could also put a voice activated recorder in her vehicle. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

hurting,

Well you seem to be in pretty good hands with orchid and what she has said has been right on, IMHO.

My daughter tried to get my lovely wife and I to be together too. Trying to get us to hold hands or sit next to each other.

The OM sounds like a real winner, huh? I think you wife will see this pretty soon. The fact that he is an addict and has a track record of relapses Should be enough to keep your kids a way from OM. You really can't stop your wife from seeing him but you can keep your kids from seeing him.

You're in TN I see. I'll be in tennessee the first two weeks of july. One week for our church youth camp and one just visitin' folk. Don't worry I am not a florida native so I won't make any Gator comments to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God Bless

H12: Your wife is getting some of her needs met by both of you. When things were bad between my wife and I, I considered basicly abandonning her with the children (she was the sole financial support of the family at the time and I was a SAHD by mutual agreement) because she did not appreciate the things I did for her. I wanted her to miss me, and I was sure that she would if I left, but she did not seem to notice what I was doing for her while I was around - I felt like she took me for granted. Leaving probably would have been an effective strategy, due to the fact that while I was not meeting her top 2 needs well at all, I was doing a super job on the other 8, to the point where she could not have continued to even hold on to her job if I left. Her life would have fallen apart, and the OM was in no position to save her. There was NO possible way he could have met her other important needs.

What I found out later, was that if I had kicked her out, that probably would have worked, too, because even though our marriage was emotionally distant, our home was a stable, peaceful haven for her, and time with the children was about the only emotionally meaningful time she had other than time with the OM (one of the reasons she was vulnerable to him was her lack of good friendships, because we had moved a lot for her job). Losing that port from the storms of her professional life would have been devastating for her.

So, If she had come home from work one friday to find ME gone, it would have destroyed her way of life, and she would have been very suddenly confronted with how much she depended on me, which would have been satisfying to me in some ways. But, if she had come home on a Friday to an empty house, it would have eliminated the emotional foundations of how she defined herself. She would have been completely devastated.

So, what's my point? Leaving or having her leave may not make any difference at all, in the long run. You are working with Steve, he has more experience and information about you than we do. My instinct is to say "Kick her out, why should you leave?" But I am not a controlling person at all, and I was a conflict avoider, so LB's were not a problem for us, it was neglect of her top two EN's. Your situation is different, so the best strategy for you may be different. Just remember that like my wife's OM, your wife's OM has no chance with her at all, long-term. That might even be because deep down, she knows she does not want to leave you, so she picked a loser who won't be too hard to give up. It might also be why Steve H is not pusing you to reveal the afair - because it is one that has no real chance of survival anyway. While I am not an advocate of letting affairs continue unhindered, the advange of letting them end naturally is that the WS is usually more receptive to marital recovery after the affair ends naturally than if it ends because of efforts of the BS to destroy it, ESPECIALLY if the BS is controlling.

I think I saw something on another thread of yours that suggested your W thinks you are controlling. One book I've read that addresses how issues of control affect marriages and affairs is: "The State of Affairs", by Todd Mulliken. I've heard him speak, and he makes the point that he will give different advice to people depending on whether either, neither or both spouses tend to be controlling. I think the book might be useful to you to help understand your wife's point of view.

Thanks John I will get that book.

Update we left to get comp within 2 minutes of her getting home. Turns out this made her miss call from OM about 5 min after that. More on that in a sec.

Anyhow if you remember I had just told Orchid that WS rarely baits me in an attempt to fight, wellllll this was one of those days. Thanks to you Orchid I was ready and did not rise at all. At one point I calmly told her that "It seems your in a bad mood. Did something happen at work that upset you. I would love to talk to you about whatever is bothering you but I don't want to fight. I don't do that anymore." That ended it right there. She had tried to get a rise out of me for almost an hour and couldn't.

We get to the store and I let her pick her Comp. then inform her that I had reniged on a promise to get her a scanner and TV so go ahead and pick those out too. $2,000 later she was real happy with me. Not trying to buy her love but I had made the promises to get all of these things but something always came up so I didn't. Now she knows that even if she is leavig me I still keep my word now.

Well we get home about 9 and our second son informs her that OM has called 3 times and the last time said he was leaving. She calls him and is upset. Is out in backyard with cordless pacing up a storm.

Tells me his girlfriend went out with someone else and he is thinking about using coke. She is is support person so needs to go see him.

Shes gone 2 hours when she had said it would be 3 but it seems they worked it out again. She then begins to enjoy her new toys which I have by this time gotten all set up. Kept calling me into the room to see this or that. I didn't stick around long at any time because why appear smothering when her attention is devided between me and a game anyways.

Ws in bed now, I will be soon. oh I guess i need to plug the phone back in the morning did I forget to mention I accidentally unpluged it while setting up wires and it seems that according to our phone service that he called while we went to get paper after she got back. Also seems son came to me and forgot to tell her he called then phone got unplugged and he missed us 3 more times so far. Bet he wonders where we are and what we are doing.

Kinda take pleasure in that. She will believe he called, she can see the record too. But our phone is though the internet and it does go down about 15% of the time. Wonder if he will believe that.

For a day that started so bad and me feeling so frusrated it sure did end with a pretty good 5 hours.

BTW my WS HATES it if you threaten to hurt yourself. Threaten to get drunk ,use coke, kill yourself ,any of that stuff. Seen her tell her best friend to either do it (pull the trigger) or grow up and shut up about it. I sure hope OM keeps using that tactic, this A could go from deep in love to cntempt in abot 3 of these episodes.

Night all thanks for the replies they kept me sane earlier in the day.

Hi,

U seem to be doing much better. Good to see you are able to take what could be a baited and bad situation and turn the proverbial lemon into lemonade scenario into a positive spin for you. Your W will eventually feel those effects also. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

John39 & D_Rose are giving you good support. It is helpful to get a variety of insights. Taken wisely, it will help when we take the parts that are helpful and discard what we can not use.

If you can, pray for a clear mind and a calm heart. Can't remember if I already said that but t hose 4 words (clear mind/calm heart) has saved my life many a time. It is good to be prepared.

As for your W not liking threats, well that is my personality also. My in-laws (4 younger SILs - H has 6 sisters) along with each parent has threatened suicide with various methods several times each since I have been married. 2 of them ended up in psychiatric wards on several occassions. The current SIL did this last year and her father (recovering alcoholic) had to call 911 and eventually she was committed for a few days. Now she has disowned most of the family since she feels we 'all' sent her there. So I can understand how she may feel about not wanting to put up with threats.

On the other hand, that type of personality can also be very stubborn (at least in my case - LOL!!). This is a disadvantage when the right thing to do is NOT what we want to do. I have had to discipline my mind many times NOT to be stubborn. In my case, by praying for a clear mind and a calm heart, have learned to listen to the voice of reason instead of the voice of pride. This has helped me to avoid major issues. Of course it doesn't always make my decisions a favorite among those who want to do what is wrong but at least I am willing to try and do the right thing. It has kept my from temptation and out of a lot of trouble.

Now the accusation I have to live with is that
'Orchid thinks she is perfect/Ms. Goody 2 Shoes/better than others/etc.' But guess who is making those statements? The ones whose diastrous decisions I am not supporting. Who said stuff like this? Hm..... WS (during the A), OW, SIL while making suicide threats, some workmates, my sister (whole 'nother story on that one - now she has major personality issues - aarrrgh), etc. But I am not perfect, never claimed to be, just want to do what is safe, healthy and right as much as possible and I welcome the assistance and suggestions of others, even willing to admit when I am wrong. I work hard at that and I know that has saved me many times. Of course, having loving family and friends around who are not afraid to speak out their minds is sometimes hard to take but with the right attitude, it has been helpful.

Sorry for babbling on a bit. Got carried away - LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Just glad to hear your night ended on a much better note than earlier today.

take care..... U R doing good! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

They must have made up again. They had a nice tailk this morning when she got up.

WS canceled our planned picnic with the kids and she just left to take OM lunch. He "forgot to make one." Our girls went with her though so they won't be able to talk much.

We are supposed to watch the new Harry Potter vidio with the kids this afternoon. Hope I can get her to go bowling later.

Got a solid 8 hrs sleep last night so I should be able to keep up my strength for plan A for the next few days. I guess you need aa good nights sleep every 3 weeks or so LOL.

Orchid your right about WS once she makes up her mind she is extremely stubborn. But I think he will get mad enough to end it or make her mad enough. I really just can't see them making a go of this. Maybe I have blinders on but I just don't see it.

Oh, just so we're on the same page. The reason his addiction doesn't bother her is that she was on Coke and alcohol when younger. Stayed high and drunk for a solid year. She quit the day after she found out she was preg. and moved back to her hometown where we remet. So she knows you can quit if you want to bad enough, but is a little nieve(sp?) about other people being able to do it as easy as she did.