Hi

my details are in another thread here entitled - 'Help Please - Plan A or B'.

I am confused at the moment. I understand that it is not a LB to have boundaries in plan A, but how do you enforce them without LB-ing?
Surely a boundary that you can't enforce is not really a boundary - more of a wish?

My particular case (reasons in the other thread) is that my WW cannot stay (i.e. sleep) in our house while she is continuing the A.
She is now more or less forcing the issue. I can't physically manhandle her out of the house, so I don't know what to do short of making some sort of threat, e.g. I'll tell XYZ about this, or throwing her stuff out the window (Hollywood style!). Either way this seems like a LB <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Salerio,

supoort the boundaries and avoid LB's by speaking of the reasons in your perspective....

you've heard of the spin factor...spin it your way...

dear I want nothing more than for you to be here with me and daughter because you (she) wants to be here with us..

I care for you and it hurts ME to think I would be forcing you to choose to stay/be here out of coveniance...if that is what you are not choosing.

What I want for me and our daughter is for things not to become more confusing and muddled as to what is going on here...

tell her you enjoy spending time with her
that you are worried about and the stress she is under...

tell her what you want and will accept is a marriage based on two people committed to eachother...and you are willing to work on that...

tell her you are sorry she can not stay here...and look forward with great hope that soon she will decide she wants to be here....but that you would never want to force her to be where she doesn't want to be....

Is it a spin...not really ..it is in fact the truth...
that you want her and the marriage exclusively...
that it hurts YOU she would turn to someone else..

she has little ground to argue on when you present it with your own feelings and perspective...without accusing her of this and that...and with lots of hope and concern that she will come to believe in the both of you as you are comeing to believe...

plan a is deciding what you can and can not toleterate in your life REGARDLESS of others actions that you can not control and change...
It is protecting yourself from undo and or blatant pain...when you can not tolerate it....

If I were you I would take daughter to the wedding without her....huge clear message of the realities of her actions...consequances of her chosen actions...

She is the one choosing to abandon people...you should not make that choice as well....go to the wedding...
avoid power struggles, name calling...get on with your life...and make sure she knows when she has decided she is more than welcome...to join you in healing....

ARK

Thanks ark

Reading your message is a relief to me - that is exactly the wy I presented things. Unfortunately, she is just washing over it - not listening and trying to convince herself that because she has a legal right to reside in our house that she has a moral right too.

She is so scattered on this - she doesn't want to force me out, she doesn't want to be out of the house, yet she wants the relationship over and us not to be together - she just doesn't seem to want to enact the reality - total cake eating I feel.

At the level at which she is brazening this out, I don't know how I can enforce this boundary? Mimi, in the other thread feels this is a boundary I shouldn't be trying to enforce, yet I feel I have to for the reasons outlined elsewhere.

Her arguments are not any way rational, she disregards (or has in this particular discussion at least) all pain she is causing me, won't even acknowledge it. Turns around what I say - i.e. I have no respect for her if I want her out. And keeps repeating that I have no right to not let her stay and that she wants to see our D, and that it makes our D happy. When I argue/point out respectfully that it makes our D happy because it encourages her to think that things are being resolved happily she loses it with me and tells me that is rubbish and I am trying to emotionally blackmail/bully her. Truly the aliens have come <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Our D is not invited to the wedding, but I may go myself, I feel stronger about it now. I know I shouldn't have to forego it, but I thought it might be too emotional to deal with for me. It will also raise the issue of who to tell and what to say, as there are bound to be questions as to why she isn't there.

Reasoning with an adult while they are engaging in a temper tantrum .... fun, is it not?

Here's a "temper tantrum" technique, also acceptable to use when dealing with toddlers and telemarketers. It's called, "The Broken Record". TBR.

TBR is YOU, repeating your non-LB decision/boundary without engaging in an arguement or an explaination. In other words, tell your truth, own your words, and don't argue.

"If you live here while there is adultery, I bleed from my soul." .... dramatic, uses the factually tough *adultery* word (instead of the fluffy and somewhat romantic *affair* word) and keeps the discussion about your feelings. Anytime she complains, "WHY don't you want me to live here?" or threatens. "You can't make me move out!" .... reply with TBR you have prepared.

When she yells at you because you "told" someone .......You TBR reply is prepared "I told ____ about the affair, because it's a fact I am struggling to deal with." Use the word affair when you are talking about what you say to outsiders. Again, it she attacks you, repeat TBR response rather than try to reason with her ..... she is unreasonable. It can only frustrate you and lead to an arguement.

My husband and I learned to do this with our wayward son ..... and he had numerous complaints about our parental boundaries, believe me! It really saved my sanity when I wanted to ring his neck or scream at him!

Make sure TBR response does not sound like this, "You can't stay here because you are committing adultery." .... The response lets HER into the discussion because it's about her, not you.
I think you are doing remarkably well!

Hang in there. Antidepressants are great about now!

Pep

Edited for rewording

<small>[ May 26, 2003, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Salerio, consider the following 180 degrees list from Michelle Weiner Davis divorcebusting.com:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore!.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. ACT AS IF YOU ARE MOVING ON WITH YOUR LIFE.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get
busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING
17.YOU NEED TO MAKE YOUR PARTNER THINK THAT YOU HAVE HAD AN AWAKENING AND, AS FAR AS YOU ARE CONCERNED, YOU ARE MOVING ON WITH YOUR LIFE, WITH OR WITHOUT YOUR SPOUSE.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing.
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.
23. DO NOT ARGUE ABOUT HOW SHE FEELS (IT ONLY MAKES HER FEELINGS STRONGER)
24. Be patient.
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26.LEARN TO BACK OFF, SHUT UP, AND WALK AWAY WHEN YOU WANT TO SPEAK OUT.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30.DO NOT BE OPENLY DESPERATE OR NEEDY EVEN WHEN YOU ARE HURTING MORE THAN EVER AND ARE DESPERATE AND NEEDY.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32.DO NOT BELEIVE ANY OF WHAT YOU HEAR AND LESS THAN 50% OF WHAT YOU SEE.Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

While it's true that you CAN'T force boundaries for her, YOU CAN force boundaries on yourself (personal boundaries) like the above.