Without reading the book, it's probably not the same. My first thought is to disagree. But when I think more ( and you know that's hard for me to do,) perhaps there is something to this.

I was thinking of someone that wants to win a gold medal ( weightlifting) in the olympics. They need a training program, and much of their strength comes in the future as they continue to lift. But the lifting is done now.

Interresting.

If I want to get a doctorate, do I have it now or not at all? Or do I have to do the work and then they award it to me?

Would I need to read the book to get it?

Condense it down into one sentance, so I can get it easier.

The reason you killed the thread is because the rest of us haven't read the book, and we don't get all of it, so we don't want to appear foolish by our comments and we keep quiet. You already know how I am, so what have I got to loose?

Maybe after reading the title of the thread, and then going off into philosophy you scared them away.

I am supposed to be working, you sucked me right in.

Working NOW............................

SS

<small>[ June 03, 2003, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Give me more TIME and I'll think up more smart remarks. Right NOW my mind is empty.

Does that mean?????

No wait - uh, it can't mean that.

Can it?

This is starting to get fun.

SS

SS:

It's all very simple, really. Like I've said before (which I got from Tolle, by the way, but internalized): The past and fu2re don't exist, except in our memories and imaginations. Everything you did in the past, was done "now" at the time. Everything you do in the fu2re, will be done in the now, at that time. Why dwell where you aren't?

The olympic athlete is a reasonable example. Okay. Tolle doesn't say "don't plan for the future." In that particular example, you're missing the point. Just like my Fundamentalist Christian friend missed the point in an argument we got in2 about Darwin. He said that Darwinism never saved any souls, and I countered that it wasn't supposed 2. Likewise, working out isn't supposed 2 be who the athlete is, it's what they do. Anybody can live in the now, and find themselves and "salvation" while working out, or changing a flat tire, or dating, or being M'd, or planning the colonization of another planet.

Winning the gold medal won't be the athlete's salvation, however lofty a goal that may appear 2 be. Does fame and for2ne bring the rich and famous salvation? Heck no. If it did, why do so many still commit suicide?

From Tolle again:

"I recently read about a famous actress who died in her eighties. As her beauty started to fade and become ravaged by old age, she grew desparately uhappy and became a recluse. She, too, had identified with a condition: her external appearance. First, the condition gave her a happy sense of self, then an unhappy one. If she had been able to connect with the formless and timeless life within, she could have watched and allowed the fading of her external form from a place of serenity and peace. Moreover, her external form would have become increasingly transparent to the light shining through from her ageless true nature, so her beauty would not really have faded but simply become transformed into spiritual beauty. However, nobody told her that this is possible. The most essential kind of knowledge is not yet widely accessible."

It's certainly possible that I'm killing my thread with these philosophical ramblings. Heck, I remember thinking the same things at times about SC's threads last summer and fall, but now I find myself "going there" more and more.

This forum is very much about posting 2 the most exciting, even 2mul2ous si2ations. I suppose there's nothing wrong with that, particularly with all the well-meaning help that we do get here.

In the end, though, if my thread doesn't attract people interested in helping me figure out what I'm doing right or wrong because I'm doing that well enough myself, I should be glad, right?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
♥2long.

<small>[ June 03, 2003, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

What happens to people who don't plan for retirement?

SS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What happens to people who don't plan for retirement? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They...uhh...vote Democratic? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Geez...that was bad, I know. Sorry, couldn't resist. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

HCII

Ok, I've had my fun, but I do have questions.

Why dwell where you aren't?

I agree you need to make the most of now. People who don't often burn their dinner because they don't pay attention.

I do think it is important to remember and learn from the past. If we did not, we would repeat the mistakes of the past over and over and we don't need to do that.

I also think we need to plan for the future, and that sometimes means we spend now working for something we can't have yet. We get some improvment now, but - well the example of the weight lifter. We increase our muscles now, but we have a training program that outlines how much weight we need to lift and how often we need to lift it to become that champ. We can only be the champ if we do the program over time. So, sometimes we need to spend now worrying about, and working for tomorrow, or tomorrow isn't very nice. Retirement being another example. How much do I need to put away NOW so I have something tomorrow. I do agree that everyting is done now.

Another point - did your grandfather contribute to who you are? Are you grateful? Isn't that all in the past? Isn't that important?

I am probably missing someting, and again, would need to read the book to get it. This is fun though. I am just trying to learn, hope you know any other comments are just in fun.

SS

hcii:

Good 2 hear from you again, man! Even if it is about politics! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

ss:

"I agree you need to make the most of now. People who don't often burn their dinner because they don't pay attention. "

Indeed. Doing things like watching dinner intently is a good way 2 take your mind off dwelling in time and in2 the now. Extreme sports are like that, 2, though I might argue that they're not always "healthy" ways of focusing on the now (like when mountain bikers fall off cliffs and die - stuff like that).

"I do think it is important to remember and learn from the past. If we did not, we would repeat the mistakes of the past over and over and we don't need to do that."

Tolle and I agree. Remembering and learning are not the same as dwelling on and rewriting his2ry, though.

"I also think we need to plan for the future, and that sometimes means we spend now working for something we can't have yet."

Tolle talks about this, but I don't have it in front of me right now. Maybe someone else who's read it can chime in - or with their own thoughts.

"We get some improvment now, but - well the example of the weight lifter. We increase our muscles now, but we have a training program that outlines how much weight we need to lift and how often we need to lift it to become that champ. We can only be the champ if we do the program over time. So, sometimes we need to spend now worrying about, and working for tomorrow, or tomorrow isn't very nice."

Again, this example is about a physical improvement, not a spiritual one. And is it really "important" in the scheme of things? 2 quote a Scifi satire novel, "The Great Explosion" by Eric Frank Russel:
______________________________
'“He is a person of considerable importance,” said Bidworthy, unable to decide whether the other was trying to be funny at his expense or alternatively was what is known as a character. A lot of these long-isolated pioneering types liked to think of themselves as characters.

“Of considerable importance,” echoed the farmer, narrowing his eyes at the horizon. He appeared to be trying to grasp a completely alien concept. After a while, he inquired, “What will happen to your home world when this person dies?”

“Nothing,” Bidworthy admitted.

“It will roll on as before?”

“Yes.”

“Round and round the sun?”

“Of course.”

“Then,” declared the farmer flatly, “if his existence or nonexistence makes no difference he cannot be important.” With that, his little engine went chuff-chuff and the cultivator rolled forward.'
______________________________

SS:

"Another point - did your grandfather contribute to who you are? Are you grateful? Isn't that all in the past? Isn't that important?"

Heck yeah. It's in my memories. My grandfather still lives in my thoughts, in fact (though not all that often, he died over 20 years ago). Yep, the memories and how I can learn from them are important. But dwelling on things like the fact that he's gone now won't accomplish anything but occupy my thoughts that could be directed elsewhere.

"I am probably missing someting, and again, would need to read the book to get it. This is fun though. I am just trying to learn, hope you know any other comments are just in fun. "

Absolutely!
-2long

Hi 2long,

Btw I changed my screen name, I used to go by YetAgain.

SS said:
"The reason you killed the thread is because the rest of us haven't read the book, and we don't get all of it, so we don't want to appear foolish by our comments and we keep quiet."

Yep, and when I have the time I read the thread, still keep quiet though.

You said:
"It's certainly possible that I'm killing my thread with these philosophical ramblings. Heck, I remember thinking the same things at times about SC's threads last summer and fall, but now I find myself "going there" more and more."

I kept quiet on SC's philosophical threads too, but kept reading. I didn't get a lot of it then, but I'm starting to get some of it now--not the same things that SC has gotten but it has been helpful to me nonetheless. Same concepts, different results.

SS said:
"I agree you need to make the most of now. People who don't often burn their dinner because they don't pay attention."

These are the kinds of things I can relate to. It helps me understand the philosophical stuff.

You said:
"In the end, though, if my thread doesn't attract people interested in helping me figure out what I'm doing right or wrong because I'm doing that well enough myself, I should be glad, right?"

I think so, and I'm happy for you just like I am happy for SC. Btw, I don't think it's because people aren't interested in helping you, I think it's because they can't help you at that time. That doesn't stop your threads from helping others, even if we stay quiet about it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Take care 2Long

Dear 2long:

I have not read the book, however your excerpts and comments seem to say to me:

The past is done take what you have learned and let it go.

The future doesn't exist so don't be anxious about it and have it effect your feeling about the present.

In the now, we do those things we must to care for ourselves (be they retirement planning/weightlifting etc) but we enjoy what we have and are doing right now.

If I have it right I like the philosphy and agree with it. I just wish I was better able to practice it.

All my best.

Jack

Thanks, YA. I mean LB. Oops, I can't really use that abbreviation here, can I!? Maybe if I put a $ in front of it, it'll be okay!?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Good 2 hear from you again!
-2long

Jack:

I think you have it right.

-2long

2L

I told you this was going to be a spiritual adventure.

Doors open. The light shines from a new angle and you can see with new eyes.

A part of your present and future wisdom dwells in the land of mystery and miracle.

I have not read this book. It seems to look well on you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

The fun part is 2L .... the good stuff keeps on coming once you stop running and stay still. You empty your expectations, and hope steps in.

Mr. P calls this "God smack" .... when a blessing gets thrown at you. >smack< and hits you unexpectedly. It can be something so mundane as being told a book is a good read.

Your W is doing her own "now" .... and you aren't trying to step into her now and impose your tomorrow. This leaves both of you open for the >smack.

You made me smile today 2L. It's been a tough week (all 2 days of it). I thank you for the smile. My neighbor was diagnosed with lung cancer yesterday. He goes to my clinic. He is 52 years old .... younger than I, and he is a really great guy. I am bummed .... and your thread >smacked< me!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pep

Mr. 2long-

Sometimes we act like a mirror of one another. I scanned this post and thought...WOW!!!

I have been having some similar realizations lately but sadly admit that it's not due to any good reads. This book you're reading sounds good. Can you hit me with the name again?

Anyway, I was just going to comment that I'd been pondering the feeling of "loss" that I had been experiencing lately. See, I was thinking about X and my "history" together and I was feeling gloomy because none of it means anything to anyone anymore. See, while we were together, those times were reflected on, laughed about, cried about, whatever...but now...they are fading and the significance is gone.

So then I was thinking:
Kily, why is this causing you pain? I realized that I was holding on to something that was. Just as I held on for so long for something that wasn't. The conclusion I came to was exactly what you were saying...all that matters is now.

I have a choice to live for then. If I do this, I live in sorrow for what was lost.

I have a choice to live for tomorrow. If I do this, then I live in anticipation of something that isn't. It might be, but I have no control over the outcome.

I have a choice to live in the now. When I do this, I am experiencing life. I am being. I am aware of this moment and that enables me to appreciate what that moment is all about.

Deep thoughts. Mainly, I realized that life is about living, from moment to moment. Not about carrying the weight of regrets, or burden of what may be...

So, I let those memories go...where ever it is that they go. I hold no more regrets (today anyway) or associations to them. They are now a part of what led me to here.

So, I let go of the dreams that I held for my future. Although I like to have direction on where I may be headed, I stay flexible by being in the present. I no longer try to force things. I simply bend like the willows.

Hope this wasn't too deep.

Pepper:

I'm glad I could make you smile!!!

I'm still smiling, 2, even though there are still reasons I probably shouldn't... ...heck, NO there aren't!!!

Truth is that not so much of our si2ation had changed in the past few weeks as my thinking about it changed, and so fundamentally that I don't think I'll ever go back. Well, I won't be surprised if I have additional down moments, but the two "God Smaks" for me were:

1) feeling like I was being picked on in the forums and seeking comfort in "victimhood." That didn't work, but it failed so blatantly that I couldn't ignore the fact that it doesn't work 2 do that. And so the alternative choice, NOT being a victim, has been all the more rewarding, because I recognized it's opposite at the time.

2) finishing PON, and realizing that I must have been effusing the niftiness I've been feeling while learning that it was starting 2 really come back at me from my W. She was genuinely concerned last friday night when I left the apartment for the garage while she was on the phone 2 RM. And so it was a neat weekend.

I still don't know what my W will do in the long term about RM. But at least I'm not pressuring her 2 do anything for me, and so she can figure out how 2 do it for herself, if she gets 2 that point. If she doesn't?... I'm not going 2 worry about that now. Like a friend said recently "I've never heard of anybody crossing a bridge before they came 2 it." Only they spelled their 2s!

Hey, remember Nifty Notebooks from the early 60's? I still have mine from the first grade! It still has my signature in gold ink that I put there in 1962. ...a few years ago, my MIL found another one at the swap meet, so now I have 2!

:)2long
-2long

kily:

No, not 2 deep. That was perfect!

The book is The Power of Now, by Eckhart Tolle.

I ordered it over the internet.

Now that I'm done, I need 2 order another read! Thinking about exploring either the Forgiveness books that SC has told me about, or maybe Tolle's companion book, Practicing the Power of Now.

Hm...

-2long.

SS:

Got your email. What time do you leave, so I can try 2 write a response 2 you before you go?

Have lots 2 do at work 2day, though, so if you don't hear back from me, please have a great time! Golly Gully is one of my favorite places 2 go 2 on this planet!

-2long.

Sometimes I'm not all that inspired - just sarcastic - but I'll post anyway! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Lucid Senility (sung 2 the 2ne of "Silent Lucidity")

"I.................will be watching over you (who?)
I.................am gonna help 2 see you through (what is it I was going 2 help you see through? Is it transparent?)
I.................will protect you in the night (what time is it, anyway?)
I.................am smiling next 2 you (but it might just be gas), in lucid senility...."

Sorry about that!
-2long

2 long-

Again you mirror me. I was looking up the lyrics to this song just yesterday...

too weird!

I am going to see the EAGLES. Section 5 on the floor. These tickets were big bucks!

See yah!

kily:

I hope I didn't trash the song for you!

PG is coming 2 town again this weekend. My D saw him when she was in London a couple weeks ago, and said it was the same show we saw, so I guess I'll pass and listen 2 the CDs for now.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> 2long

Warning 2-Long I am about to share something I wrote in my journal day 10 after D-day. It's about a dream.

"I need some order in my home. I need a place of beauty and serenity and a place to dream. Not the kind of weird nightmare I had last night.

*Drug dealers had used my home to hide drugs. Windows had been broken into and glass had gotten into the rabbits' eyes. The rabbits were bleeding from their eyes. The cops came in to set up a sting. They forced me to be a hostage. There I was, naked in my home, crouched, waiting for drug dealers and cops to have a shoot-out while my rabbits' eyes were bleeding.*

Nasty dream. Violated in so many ways.

Phoenix --- rise from the ashes. Amazing grace lifting me from the ashes. Good things can grow from ash. Like after a fire. The soil can nurture. Growth is slow. We become impatient. Word for today PATIENCE. Grow with patience. Good things to come. New heights to achieve. If I keep looking up I won't see how low I am right now."

I wrote this in January 1996.

Hope you're looking up 2-Long.

Pep

<small>[ June 04, 2003, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>